posted 12-05-1998 12:24 PM            

I did that -- but used FrontPage98 to create the table -- in the General Forum. But I did end up with a big vertical gap before the table.

posted 12-05-1998 01:36 PM            

Yes, John, you didn't do anything wrong with your table creation. The problem is with the way the Forum software parses HTML table code. Way back when I put the first table up in Factoid #8 (check General Forum for past year to find this msg.) I enountered the same issue.

Back then, it took me a while to debug it - here's what I think is happening.

When an HTML table is posted as a message, the Forum software translates each Carriage Return character between the (table)...(/table) tags as a (br). As you know, the (br) is a line-break, indicating a new line must be started at the given point. Thus each Carriage-Return character in your code causes the UBB parser to place a full lines worth of white space in its translated output. Thats why you see all the extra space.

Of course, the real problem is you can't normally see the Carriage-Return characters, so it's difficult to remove them. (Once removed, your code loses its formatting - thats why my example for the Kuhl party is all jammed together.)

I did the same thing to 'fix' (ie., work around) the problem as I did to diagnose it. I pasted the offending code into an Editor that let me view it in Hex. (Hex refers to the hexadecimal numbering system - base 16 - a hex editor is standard equipment for any programmer. Instead of showing them as alphabetic characters, the Hex editor shows characters in their hex numeric value).

Once in the hex editor, its easy to spot the Carriage Return - it is represented as an 0D (thats zero D). I removed these suckers , then looked at the code in a normal editor to cut n paste it back into the message posting window. Voila! (Actually I removed both the Carriage-Return (0D) and the Line-Feed (0A) characters - I don't think the 0A causes the problem, but took them out anyway.)

One way to look at the situation is to do a 'View Source' on your table posted in the General Forum. This should let you see where the extra white-space is coming in. Look where the (br) characters are inserted causing the extra space, then compare this with your original HTML source in FrontPage. Thats where the offending 0D's are.

If you don't have a Hex editor, you can try using Word by having it show the non-printing characters. (Tools->Options->View->check the 'All' box under non-printing characters). Word will show a '¶' character for a line-feed carriage return (I think - not absolutely sure this is right). You can try removing all of these - your results are correct when your HTML is one continuos line of characters w/o any wrap to the next line. But I'm not sure if you can get this view when writing HTML with Word. Course you could ask the missus for a programmers editor for Christmas - Visual SlickEdit is the only one to get. :-)

I shoulda given a more explicit warning about this since I'd already encountered it, but didn't want to raise un-needed dust. (The example code I posted for Fred to cut and paste has the offending Carriage Returns removed. Course it is too small to meet your needs.)

John, or anyone else finding their way this far - if you want to explore this topic further, or need additional help, please let me know.

Rgds,
Binary BoB (I'll send you my billing rate - ROFL)

PS - in the following message I'll attempt to post a version of the table you placed in the General Forum where I took it through the surgery I described above. Please excuse if this ends up garbled.

Also note - in the above discussion, I've used parentheses around HTML characters such as (br) - please replace with angle brackets for the real world.

[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 12-05-98).]

posted 12-05-1998 01:42 PM            

Looks OK!

Rgds,
The Tabula Rasa Society

[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 12-05-98).]