 GLOWS :-P or :^) part 2
#79924
02/08/99 01:52 AM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 2,300
JTimothyA
OP
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OP
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As is our custom, we close threads when they hit the 50 message mark. This is for ergonomic reasons only - they just take too long to load and scroll easily. But fear not - the GLOW topic ain't gonna go away. So here's Part 2, with a quickie link to the first fifty Part 1: GLOWs :^) or :-P I encourage folks to read through these posts as they contain a lot of good discussion. Part 1 closes with an interesting idea from Dick Johnson on how to 'Save the GLOWs and Keep Everyone Happy'. But just to be persnickity I'll kick off the next fifty at the same point we started from on 1-3-99... I'm opening this thread specifically for discussion about GLOWs. Whether you love 'em or hate 'em or just wish we'd shut up about 'em - here's a place to yak about 'em.
To kick things off I'll make the usual controversial remarks.
1. Because they don't have a limited edition size, GLOWs are not collectibles. They're giftware - they won't appreciate in value and they don't retire. (HL may stopping making a model because it's not selling, but technically this isn't 'retirement').
2. With the advent of GLOWs, the rate of appreciation of the Limited Edition pieces has slowed. Note I didn't say GLOWs caused this, but I don't think the timing is merely coincidental.
3. GLOWs have a detrimental impact on the rate of LE retirement. Every dollar spent on a GLOW is a dollar not spent on an LE.
4. GLOWs are a distraction to the new collector. The early GLOWs were a bit smaller and not (imo) quite as nice as their contemporary LE models. Nowadays a case can be made that some GLOWs are actually nicer than the LE of the same name.
5. Some folks suggest the purchase of GLOWs aids lighthouse societies or lighthouse preservation. Instead, why not donate the full amount of money directly to the lighthouse society - it yields them a much bigger benefit? The fact that a lighthouse's gift shop doesn't have a model of the light has never stopped me from making a
contribution.
6. GLOWs are cute but boring. If HL never made an LE and only offered GLOWs, you wouldn't be reading this now. ;->
7. Its not unusual to hear remarks such as: 'I don't collect as an investment therefore even if GLOWs hurt the LE marketplace this doesn't bother me'. I'd be very surprised to learn that anyone started collecting lighthouse models as an investment. But one day when you turn around and your collection is worth several thousand dollars
it makes sense to me not to ignore factors that cause it to increase or decrease in value.
Ok - there's a few reasons why GLOWs are not a happiness. I think I understand the case for them, but we'll let someone else state it. Fwiw, I think the GLOW pieces are very well done by HL, but I don't own any.
Keep in mind all of this is soley in the interest of talking about our HL hobby, not a judgement on individual purchasing proclivities. From the Fog Signal Building, __ /im
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Re: GLOWS :-P or :^) part 2
#79925
02/10/99 04:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 12,331
Bob M
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While we're talking about Glows, I just purchased another Montauk Glow as a gift for a friend while I was at lunch today. I had to travel to six dealers (over the past week) before I could finally find one. Of course, while I was at these different stores I made note of what Glows they had in stock. What I noticed was that there were no older Glows at any of these dealers. I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record but do dealers ever restock the original Glows. It seems to me they get an original shipment, sell them off, and don't reorder. Is that true in other parts of the country? I'm in Massachusetts, on the East Coast...where the sun is shining and it's in the mid 40's. 
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Re: GLOWS :-P or :^) part 2
#79926
02/10/99 09:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,194
Todd Shorkey
Super Wacko
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Super Wacko
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,194 |
Bob, I totally agree with you about GLOWS not being re-ordered/re-stocked, but I also believe that it trickles down to the limited editions as well.
Two of the dealers in my area have not had Wind Point on their shelves for a number of months. That is just one example. There are others that have been notably absent as well.
Is it the responsibility of the store, or regional sales rep. to handle reordering of pieces not in stock at the store, but in the warehouse in El Cajon?
-Todd
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Re: GLOWS :-P or :^) part 2
#79927
02/11/99 11:12 AM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,082
Bill Harnsberger
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At most dealers in my corner of the world (northern New England), GLOWs tend to sit...and sit...and sit...and sit...
In fact, last night I actually went to the mall for the first time in several weeks and visited the HL dealer there. The only thing different about the display was the fact that 2 Montauk GLOWs had crowded the already overcrowded display case even more. Heck, they don't even bother trying to create an attractive display---there's no room!
GLOWs were mixed up with limited editions. Poor St. Augustine (the lamest of the lamest of the LAMEST GLOWs) was stuck in the back and barely even visible. If I had a photo of the display from 2 years ago versus what it looks like today, it would be an instant indicator of 2 things, in my opinion:
1) Way too many GLOWs that aren't noticeably different from the limited editions.
2) The folly of the 10,000 edition size (and even the 9500 edition size).
By the way, my main reason for going was to check out the elusive Keeper and Friends. The display case was so overcrowded (and it's not a small one, by the way) that I almost missed 'em entirely. Eh...they're cute, but probably not worth the headache HL went through to get 'em produced. My guess is they'll be a very slow seller.
[This message has been edited by Bill Harnsberger (edited 02-11-99).]
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Re: GLOWS :-P or :^) part 2
#79928
02/11/99 12:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 202
Bob St Clair
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Bill,
I agree with your posting. I have backed off from my 4 to 5 lighthouses a month to maybe 3 or 4 a year.
My dealer has HL he will never sell, he said that he thinks Y&A have no one to blame but themselves.
Please Bill Younger lets get back to basics and very limited editions 7,000 or less.
Bob
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Bob
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Re: GLOWS :-P or :^) part 2
#79929
02/11/99 12:25 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 13,047
Webmaster
Saint
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Saint
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 13,047 |
I found out yesterday that there are GLOW only dealers. The updated dealer list will include an indication of whether the dealer carries Anchor Bay, GLOW only, and/or Harbour Lights limitied editions.
As for the displays being crowded or poorly arranged... Not much HL or the reps can do here. It's not like a grocery store where the manufacturer or distributor is responsible for arranging and stocking of many items. When you see HL poorly displayed, are other lines in the store arranged in a less-crowded way?
Is the dealer (or clerk) knowledgeable about the Harbour Lights line? (Question - "Why do some of these lighthouses have serial numbers that begin with letters and others don't have the letter?")
Regarding the 'older GLOWs not being reordered', you mean they don't have Cape Hatteras, Split Rock, Marblehead? Or they don't have SE Block, Portland Head and Boston Harbor (which aren't currently available because the replacements aren't ready yet.)
[This message has been edited by JChidester (edited 02-11-99).]
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Re: GLOWS :-P or :^) part 2
#79930
02/11/99 12:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,801
rscroope
Saint
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Saint
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,801 |
Oooops- Wrong Soapbox!
Please forgive me.
[This message has been edited by rscroope (edited 02-11-99).]
LONG ISLAND BOB
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Re: GLOWS :-P or :^) part 2
#79931
02/11/99 01:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,194
Todd Shorkey
Super Wacko
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Super Wacko
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,194 |
John,
I haven't seen a Cape Hatteras GLOW at my primary dealer in two years. Only one of the four dealers in my immediate area have one currently on display.
-Todd
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Re: GLOWS :-P or :^) part 2
#79932
02/11/99 04:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,082
Bill Harnsberger
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Posts: 1,082 |
You're right, John. Not much Harbour Lights can really do about displays. But this particular dealer sells other collectible lines, and most are quite neatly displayed. My fear---based on the display I saw last night---is that this dealer (and maybe more) is tired of stuffing more pieces into the display case than are coming out of it. "Oh, great. Another lighthouse." Again, if I think back a couple years, the display then was quite attractive.
I would contend that there are two things Harbour Lights can do to at least increase the odds of having an attractive display.
One is to increase turnover of limited edition pieces so that there's more room for the new ones (read: lower the edition size).
And second is to think long and hard before issuing GLOWs. I think we could have done without Bolivar, St. Simon's, New London Ledge, Old Point Loma, Cape Canaveral, Old Mackinac Point, Southeast Block and even Sandy Hook (probably the dustiest GLOW I see when I visit various dealers).
I'd stick with Hatteras, Portland Head, Nubble (only because the Lighthouse Depot is near it and probably sells a ton of 'em), Boston Harbor, Thomas Point, Ponce DeLeon, Big Red, Alcatraz, Montauk, Split Rock, Hilton Head, and a better-sculpted St. Augustine. Marblehead could be retired, now that the stamp series has run its course. Tybee? Eh...limit it to a few thousand, make a nice donation to the restoration fund, and retire it.
By doing these two things, pieces will move faster and the shelves will have more room to breathe.
And now...I shall duck for cover.
[This message has been edited by Bill Harnsberger (edited 02-11-99).]
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Re: GLOWS :-P or :^) part 2
#79933
02/11/99 05:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,801
rscroope
Saint
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Saint
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,801 |
Isn't the idea of a GLOW to be an open edition?
Thereby retiring it makes it a limited edition.
I may be all wet but here is my theory.
There were about the following number of LEs produced not counting specials, society, Christmas, reunion,etc during the following years:
YEAR LE EdSize TotalEd GLOW GLOWCum
1998 19 10,000 190,000 9 24
1997 19 09,500 180,500 8 15
1996 24 09,500 228,000 2 07
1995 10 09,500 128,000 4 05
----- 06 05,500 ------- - 01
1994 07 05,500 038,500 1 01
1993 07 05,500 038,500 0 00
1992 14 05,500 077,000 0 00
1991 17 05,500 093,500 0 00
Here's the problem. HL is producing as many in each of the past 3 years as they had produced totally in their first 4. BUT this doesn't even count the number of GLOWS which is cumulative because of being an OE.
Agreed there were molds broken early and some LEs have not been fully produced yet but I think this explains part of the reason for the crowded shelf space.
Many dealers have also told me that they are on an automatic order which gets them their HOT pieces but also leaves them with their straglers and GLOWS.
In dealing with retired@retail you always seem to find the LH your looking for on the other side of the country from where it's located. Makes sense doesn't it.
Anyway this is probably why HL is cutting back the size of some editions - IT WILL CREATE A DEMAND.
New collectors like me are trying to get the old pieces we like before they become too expensive. The new ones we like will still be there for awhile.
BOTTOM LINE
Harbour Lights makes a great product that's why we're collecting it. Theories, scenarios, etc will not change the mind of someone who loves the product.
BUT it's fun to talk about.
[This message has been edited by rscroope (edited 02-11-99).]
LONG ISLAND BOB
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Re: GLOWS :-P or :^) part 2
#79934
02/12/99 06:12 AM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 31
rihetzler
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 31 |
If the pieces are ending up on the "other side of the country", and most of the R@R support comes from the midwest and the east, I guess us westerns should say thanks for the help.
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Re: GLOWS :-P or :^) part 2
#79935
02/13/99 02:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,468
Digger
Super Wacko
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Super Wacko
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,468 |
As with my other collecting interests, I have always leaned toward the investment side of any collecting practice. But I also believe in the "eye-appeal" side of collecting also. If the item in question is something I collect and I like the way it looks, I add it to my collection. My investment pieces consist of only the ones that I like, if they don't catch my eye, I don't buy them. The same holds true for the OE's that I have. One example is Old Mackinac Light. Being a frequent visitor to the Mackinaw area, I have walked around and in this lighthouse since I was a child. When I saw the LE version of this lighthouse I always felt (and still do) that the piece just didn't do the beautiful structure justice. Then when the Glow version came out I immediately purchased it, for the simple reason that it was a perfect miniature of the real thing. Now I can enjoy Old Mackinac Light year round.
I can not speak for others but I know that purchasing Glows will not keep me from also purchasing the LE's that I want to add to my collection. The greatest joy of collecting is truly enjoying EVERYTHING in that collection and not to totally center your attention on it's future value.
[This message has been edited by Gravedigger (edited 02-12-99).]
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Re: GLOWS :-P or :^) part 2
#79936
02/13/99 03:47 AM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 2,300
JTimothyA
OP
Saint
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OP
Saint
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 2,300 |
>>The greatest joy of collecting is truly enjoying EVERYTHING in that collection and not to totally center your attention on it's future value.<<
Well said!
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Re: GLOWS :-P or :^) part 2
#79937
02/14/99 12:48 AM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 12,331
Bob M
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Saint
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I agree with you, Gravedigger, buy what you like and enjoy it. Unfortunately, I went beyond that stage and have several LEs in their boxes in my cellar(about 50 of them). If you don't display them then it's kind of hard to really enjoy them. Only 10 LEs to go and I'll have them all! In reality, we know that ain't going to happen....too much $$$ for the hard to find pieces like Coquille and CH. That's the word from the East Coast where it's clear and 28 degrees tonight.
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Re: GLOWS :-P or :^) part 2
#79938
02/14/99 01:17 AM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,042
LamarB
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Gravedigger, you said it for me, too.
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Keepin' the flame
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