Am curious what thoughts fellow collectors, especially those with fairly complete collections, have as to the improved quality of HL's over the years.

While I have only been collecting for about a year and a half and do not have any of the older pieces (believe Selkirk is my oldest) I can't help but notice the wonderful improvement made in the railings of the pieces. I can look at railingless pieces, like Saugerties and 30 Mile Point and then at say Hudson-Athens and think the railings sure help to make a WOW piece.

Maybe some of you more knowledgeable as to the evolution of these premier collectibles could fill us in on various improvements.

Or anyone, just chime in with your opinions.

Hey Mombo!!!
I've been collecting since early 96 and have often wondered the same thing as you, what do other collecters think of the past vs. the present pieces.
I know when I began collecting it wasn't really about which pieces I really liked but how many of the old retired ones I could find. Some of the old, old pieces such as West Quoddy, Sandy Hook and Old Point Loma didn't hold a candle to some of the newer ones at the time like 30 Mile Point and Pemaquid, detail wise, I thought the newer ones then had much more detail than the beginning pieces.

But the ones coming out today are absolutely astounding! and my collecting habits have changed a great deal since the old days. I still want them all, but it's becuase they're so beautiful, not becuase of their value. It's hard keeping up with all the new releases when you want them all.

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digitalman



[This message has been edited by digitalman (edited 05-16-2000).]

The first two HL pieces that I purchased were the Cape Hatteras #102 and the Old Mackinac Point #118 in 1992. I didn't purchase my next piece until 1995. The biggest differences that I've seen over the years is in the "finer" details such as iron-work, painting, and landscaping. The "scale" within the piece, itself, has also improved to some degree. Having done alot of architectural detailing over the years thats what catches my attention more than anything else. What does perplex me, however, are the relative sizes of some of the newer pieces. In the case of Assateage #425, it is a "small unit" as opposed to Old Point Comfort #244 which is "thick" and larger. I guess each piece is to stand on its own relative scale/composition...which is fine but it took me a while to keep that thought in its proper perspective when looking at the various LE's, side by side. In any event, they are all extremely wonderful pieces and I wouldn't trade'em for anything in the world. (thanks for the "Topic" Mombo....its an excellent one)

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Brent

[This message has been edited by Brent (edited 05-16-2000).]

I am also relatively new (almost 1.5 years) to collecting HL's. I am lucky enough to have some of the original 17 and a some from the next few years. Besides the addition of metal work and finer detail, I notice a big change in the addition of color. Some of the older pieces, although great for their time, do not have the color the newer pieces have. It's great to see that HL's is always looking for ways to improve their product and never settle for good when great is around the corner.

Joanne

I've been a collector since late 1995 and am seeing what I interpret as a disturbing trend...while the new pieces are looking better than ever, detail & accuracy doesn't always make a piece charming...I would like to see HL go "retro" and create a nice, small "Canadian" (glass-like) light to re-capture the spirit of the earlier editions...I happen to think that bigger isn't always better and that a piece like Whaleback is much more valuable to me than the overrated Hillsboro, no matter how big or detailed the tower is...and cease already with the BOBs, LLOM's, GLOWs, and BILL dolls...HL captured its huge, loyal following with its LE pieces but they're being overshadowed by the excessive extras...

I can agree with Rock (and JTA and others) that the GLOWs have had an impact on the LE market. The LLOM are different in that they are aimed at a totally different market and have no effect on the serious collector, other than a choice of to buy or not to buy. I think the Bill Doll and the Bob Tree are great and show that Y&A has a sense of humor and is not afraid to have fun along with their collectors. They certainly don't require a great outlay of dollars and don't take up much space in the curio.
I too, started late to collect the LEs and have been fortunate enough to have found many older lighthouses to display along with the newest ones. I enjoy the stunning detail and color of the new releases but also appreciate those that I found from the original 17. I always thought that the North Head LE was plain and pretty basic until I visited the real lighthouse. Now, each time that I look at my LE, it reminds me how close it was to the original. So Mombo, I guess that I just love all of them.
Jim
Johnson

It's hard to determine that GLOWS or extras are detracting from the LE line. If anything, the newer pieces with their fine detail and workmanship might be adding new LE collectors. It did for me. The Alcatraz GLOW is what got me started in collecting HL's. For instance, I have Portland Breakwater, Michigan City and Whaleback; and the question is, would I have started collecting if I saw those first? I would have to say no. Although I appreciate all of the LE line, I don't think I would have been as enthusiastic to collect HL's if I saw Michigan City, or Whaleback before I saw a newer piece. It was the newer pieces that hooked me and the older pieces that addicted me. Does that make sense? I am sure that HL's does its very best to make each design agreeable to its diehard collectors, but still needs to attract new collectors. So, I could be alone in my opinion, but I don't think that GLOWS or extras have necessary hurt the market for LE's. I think that the advances made on the newer pieces make recent collectors, like me, less prone to put money into the older line. If newer pieces were to come out with the simplicity of the original, I think I would tend to pass on buying those. I admit it, I've been spoiled.

Joanne

I love tham all. Having some of the original 17 only makes me appreciate the quality of the newer pieces even more. Imagine if we didn't have the earlier ones to compare to. Each piece in my collection has a certain charm of its own, and I am very thankful to Younger and Associates for the hard work they put into each and every one of them. Thanks Y&A and please continue to make improvements in the line, especially the LE's.

My first HL was a first anniversary gift from my wife. It was Thomas Point received on 3/23/97. It sold both of us on HL. We have managed to acquire all but 6 of the limited editions plus all the GLOWs and Anchor Bays and some of the LLOMs. I think we have almost everything HL has done. I like comparing the older lights with the newer ones. It lets you see the evolution of the company and its abilities over time. While they may go overboard on some of the extra things, American Shoal would not have been possible without their pushing the envelope. Plus, would we ever have a Frensel Lens replica without the work HL has done.

I agree with Jim about some of the "extra" stuff. It shows that they like to have fun with their company and themselves. My wife won the auction for "ship's captain Bill" in Providence and he holds a proud spot in our curio with two Bill Trees beside him and the HL watch on the shelf above him. We love the way they look in our curio. Hopefully HL will cntinue to do fun and different things.

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Randall Ronne

I have only been collecting for a short time and my collection only consists of 6 pieces. My first piece was a Ponce De Leon GLOW. It made no difference to me whether it was an LE or not. In fact, at the time, I didn't know the difference. It was my favorite lighthouse and when I saw it in the case, and what a wonderfully detailed piece it was, it was an easy sale despite the fact that it was 2 to 3 times more expensive than those other lighthouses. That piece led me to the others I have now and I am not ashamed to say that several of them are GLOWS. To have obtained those lighthouses that are some of my favorites would have been impossible for me at the prices that the retired LE versions bring. I will never have the all the pieces I would like but I would probably not be a collector at all if it were not for that first GLOW that caught my eye. Hardly an "extra" in my book.

>>I don't think that GLOWS or extras have necessary hurt the market for LE's. <<

Individual preferences are what they are and there are many different reasons for collecting, or being attracted to the models. No one will dispute your personal experience. As far as GLOWS go, the marketplace disagrees with this statement, as do most dealers.

Improvements in technique and technology have brought refinements to the newer models and allowed HL to recreate some pieces that do not lend themselves to plaster casting alone. For example Thomas Point, or Grand Haven. Course they musta done something right in the early days - fifty-five hundred people can't be all wrong. :-)

If 'quality' means accuracy or greater 'life-likness' of reproduction, then I believe the newer pieces fit that description. If quality means 'charm' or 'curb-appeal' I find this characteristic runs throughout the line from the first 5500's such as Old Point Loma through the newest releases like Hudson-Athens. Some more so than others.

Some of the new pieces, while well done in the accuracy department, can come across as formulaic or too precise. Some of the earlier models are, well, boring to look at. Nonetheless I still find many of the earliest pieces present a feeling of handcraftsmanship, an old-world charm that offers a deeper sense of being sculpted by a real person. Not as much fru-fru and bold colors on the early ones, not quite so mechanically 'cute' as later sculptures. Models such as Buffalo or Castle Hill or Michigan City, have an elegant simplicity to them one doesn't find on newer releases - and is probably lost forever. (Fwiw, I think each of these is a terrific model.)

Don't get me wrong - the newer pieces are extremely well done and have a greater immediacy of appeal. Then again - for some folks comic books catch their eye and hold it longer than a leather bound classic. This feeling may have to do with when one started collecting. Although I'm sure they'd do a bang-up job of it, I'm sure I'd not want a newer Whaleback or Cana Island - and goodness knows I surely don't want them as GLOWs.

Nice to see this gathering in the FSB,
__
/im
[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 05-16-2000).]

What a great thread! I've enjoyed reading everyone's opinions -

I started collecting in 1997 and have been fortunate to find many of the early pieces. While I love the new pieces and the amazing metal work and the fine detail they have, there is something that really draws me to the early pieces - I guess there's a simplicity and charm to them, like Tim says, that just can't be duplicated in the new pieces. Burrows Island, Admiralty Head, Sandy Hook, and Old Point Loma will always be on my favorite list. We are really fortunate to be collectors with a company like Harbour Lights that has done so many different things so well for so many years!

Barb

I personally feel it is the massive increase in quality that impresses me the most about HL. After I started collecting I decided to get as many as I could untill I saw the first 2 or 3 years pieces. I'll probably get shot for saying this, but I don't want any of them. I wouldn't have started collecting HL if I had found them before 1995. In fact that's as far back as I go. I have almost every LE, all the Christmas lights, all the society (full size,) and both reunion pieces, since 95. The only piece form the previous years that I have ever felt like getting was Ocracoke, since I'm and ol' "Tar heel," however I will continue to wait on this one and hope HL does it as a GLOW.

Weasel58

You may now open fire.

Let's not debate the GLOW vs. LE issue here, my purpose was just to comment on the HL's without distinguishing between open or limited.

Another consideration is the lighthouse itself. Face it, some lighthouses are Plain Janes and even HL can't make them any more appealing than they are. Also different style lighthouses cause some models to have bulk while others are smaller and lighter. I appreciate that HL has made all types of lighthouses and that our collections contain a variety of architectural styles.

I am thinking along the same lines Weasel so I won't fire the first shot! But then I'd like to see them in person before stating that categorically!

"Beauty, is in the eyes of the Beholder"...and if weren't for alot of pre-'95 "Beholders"...HL wouldn't be where they are today. The market, today, is saturated with all types of minitures....and some of them are quite good and less expensive, however, HL, is the Rolls Royce of the lot and that can be attributed to three things: design, quality control, and marketing. Y&A appears to be on-top of each, primarily because they listen to the customer. Personnally I find it interesting that they introduce "extras" like Lobster Floats, Bill dolls, Bob Trees and the like. It means that they are "open-minded" about their product-line....but not at the expense of their "bread n' butter" product: the LE's. They just seem to get better with time!! For whatever its worth, I think they are on the right path and in this day & age, with competition being what it is, its critical to its own survival. No, I haven't bought too many of the "extras" that HL has introduced....thats not my "thing", however, I find it refreshing that they are truly a creative company with a great attitude toward their customers needs.

As time rolls on, I think I appreciate the older lights more and more. The newer lights have become so "perfect", that they almost seem like they are made by a computer. The more new ones I buy, the more it solidifies this view.

The earlier pieces are so much rougher, that they have that "hand sculpted in clay" look. Even though they are somewhat boring, sloppy, and lack color, they are obviously a hand created piece of art, and have really grown on me.

I'm a stickler for detail and accuracy though, so I have to love the perfection of the newer pieces, but they have almost become "too perfect", if that is possible. It *IS* quite a compliment to the sculpturers, who have become so extremely good at their trade that it is hard to recognize that they are still created by hand, though.

I see from reading above that opinions vary, which they should. I guess in my eyes that HL is just getting to the point that EVERY new release is a "Wow", and I'm not as surprised anymore at how good the quality will be on a new release. It was kind of fun to bring a piece home, and be amazed at how much better it looked than any others. I now EXPECT every piece to be perfect like the next. If one is slightly crooked now, than it is an obvious mistake that everyone notices and says something about, rather than an expected varience from something created by hand.

Even though "Toy Story" is a masterpiece in animation reality, "Fantasia" is still one of my favorites. I guess you can learn to love masterpieces in any era of technology.

HL should always continue to improve the quality of course, but it is nice to have the earlier releases to compare them with. A variety of styles and quality makes the display cases more interesting IMO. It is neat to be able to display the evolution of HL, vs every piece being of the exact same style and quality. Variety is the spice of life.
[This message has been edited by Rod Watson (edited 05-17-2000).]

Good question Mombo

I have been a collector from December 1996 and I was a looker since the Southern Bell days. Yes, I am totally impressed with the new releases with all the intense detail. On the other hand, you have to wonder where will it all end. Will next year models have a working light or real glass for windows. Or maybe the doors will swing close and open. How about an actual working foghorn. Maybe I am getting carried away. However, it concerns me how much of the cold porcelain is being replaced with other more workable materials. I guess I am old fashion but I always felt that collectable figurines were created from a mold, not assembled.

This may sound like I do not care for the new models. On the contrary, so far I have all of this year and most of last year. And I can’t wait to see what’s next. Nevertheless, when compared to the early models they don’t compare. I feel that the early Harbour lights are like an old Andy Griffith rerun. It’s very popular and people love the old reruns. However, if you tried to make a new series like that today very few would watch it, thinking it was out of date and corny. This is the same with Harbour Lights. They can not bring back the old style because it wouldn’t be accepted and considered poor quality.

While compared to the Originals the new ones will never come close to the the beauty of the simplicity of the early pieces that make them the real collectibles.

Daniel

Many improvements have been stated above and I agree with them all to varying degrees, but there is one thing that has to be mentioned.

Over the years as companies grow, expand their lines, ect..., you quite often see a decline in customer service. That hasn't happened at Younger & Associates. As the company has grown and evolved over the years, their attention to their collectors has remained second to none. For that, I commend them.

I also feel that exploring other avenues, looking for additional revenue, customer base, is to be expected. I almost think that if I were to find Harbour Lights for the first time today, I would probably collect the Little Lights instead of the LE's. Why, the good quality, price and size. (Thankfully I found the LE's a few years ago and didn't have to make the choice)

Anyway, as the years pass and Harbour Lights evolves, so must its collectors. While we may not like the changes or new products, we all have the choice to buy what interests us. I think as collectors, we must also evolve with the times and changing collector landscape.

-Todd

I have been a HL collector since 1992. My first piece was given to me by my husband and was Ponce de Leon, since we live about an hour away from it. I must admit that my collecting has somewhat subsided since 99 due to loss of work. I am now even forced to part with my treasures!

However, I will say that as owner of most of the original 17, I appreciate the beauty and simplicity of the earlier HL LE. I think that part of the reason I love the HL so is that not everyone has them! With the 5500 limit, it makes our lights more cherished and, to be realistic, valuable.

I have really enjoyed reading all the posts and having just discovered this website, I am amazed at the number of dedicated HL collectors. You all deserve accolades for your loyalty, knowledge and willingness to share information and opinions.

I started collecting in 1992. I also noticed a big change when The Southern Belles started to hit the display cases. They are popular lighthouses seen by many people over the years. I think that is when the line really started to take off! Making only 5500 of them back then also added to the appeal! Since then, the pieces are getting better and better with detail. The railings really were an improvement! It seems like each new piece keeps getting better than the last!

This is a good topic & discussion. even in my short experience in collecting, I have noticed improvements in the lights from say Cape Henry to Old Point Comfort.

Tim H

When I first started collecting HL in 1995, one of my first purchases was the Portland Head #125. It is still one of my all time favorites. Because there are so many to collect my husband and I decided to just collect the ones that we have been to see. Since our retirement in 1996 we have seen so many lighthouses that now we just collect the ones that we like the best. If we collected them all our retirement would come to a halt, and we would be forced to go back to work again. I do have to agree with you too Mombo that the detail involved with the new ones are to be commended. An example was the Key West Light. I had tried to buy one of the retired ones but they had become so way out of my price range I just quit looking. Then the new Key West was made and it has so much more detail I was glad I was not able to get an old one. Of course, if someone wanted to give me an old one I would gladly take it. This was a great topic because it really made you think about the collection you own. Ruthie

Dredging. Ths is a good thread that deserves a reread on a chilly Sunday afternoon.

After going through these messages again I'm coming to the opinion that when one started collecting may have an impact on what one likes. Perhaps to understand the appeal of the older models, imagine the time when they first came out. In 1994, for example, I don't think any company had an Heceta Head as nice as Harbour Lights. It may have been the only Heceta Head on the market.

Compare Heceta Head with just about any model that came out five years later, and you'll probably agree that the newer ones have more detail, nicer colors - generally more curb-appeal. If Heceta Head came out today looking like it did you can imagine someone saying'"thats not a HL model - they do a better job than that - I"m gonna buy Goat Island instead of that dodgy looking thing".

But in 1994 a model of Heceta Head was a pretty neat item to run across, if you were a lighthouse lover or model Collector. Technology marches on, but the enjoyment one had in the earlier days of collecting doesn't get diminished by time.

And the appeal of the first models has something to do with collecting itself. For me, I enjoy seeing the early ones on my shelves just as much as the newer ones. There are only 5500 Heceta Heads and that model, made as it was, will never come around again. That makes it special and its qualities are not solely visual.

Each one is different and they're all part of what HL has made for us to enjoy. Add some of the older ones to your collection - rest assured they will grow on you over time.

Rgds,
St. Reminiscence
[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 02-11-2001).]

I dont just collect Pretty lights.Iwant to have them as architecturaly correct as possible.I almost didn't get into Harbour lights because the first one I almost got was really wrong as B.Y. found out when the cape cod tour group from the Providence reunion stopped at Chatham and saw the glaring difference.This was a light I had gotten to know inside and out and the history from way back.Well I have gotten to accept small mistakes like as I posted a while back that the up coming sankaty head has only two of four chimneys in the old keepers house.I am waitng for it to come out.
I think what holds HL collectors toghether is the collectors club.B.Y. seems to do all he can to make meetings enjoyable and keep the members interest in lighthouses at the top of thier interest factor.I like one thing in replicas and others something else.I for instance do not collect variations I want the real thing but others want all variations this is probably what collecting is about.I think that what has held us all together is This guy called B.Y. and all the things he has put out and done to keep up our interest. and who of us wouldn't drop every thing to go hear Bill talk about light houses and HLs.I say keep up the good work Bill and we will be behind you . Bill O;Brien oseabee

ONe more thought while I am rambling on the love of light houses is in us even the ones who have only seen them in pictures but Bill is the fuel that keeps the flame burning. Bill O'Brien oseabee