Having read Moby's post about approaching 100 LEs in his collection, I started thinking about what it means to have a 'serious collection'. Certainly you can have a serious collection and be dedicated to collecting even if you have just 1 or 10 or 50. But once you reach 100, (or alot) you do have quite an expanse over which to reflect and think about when and why you bought each piece you have.

This got me wondering about major collections and what are the key pieces in a complete or near complete HL collection.

Out all the LEs released what constitutes the heart of the Wacko collection? Those pieces which the person who is trying (or thinking about trying) to collect all of them considers the sine qua non, the heart of the LE set. If we limit the list to approximately 10%, what would be on your list? Not necessarily your favorite models, but those that are 'most important' to a serious collection. Imo, nothing outside the 5500 series really qualifies, with maybe one or two exception.

Let's call 'em the Sweet 16.

Here's my suggestions. Others jump in with your opinions...

(not in any particular order)
7. The Seven Southern Belles
8. New Point Loma
9. Sandy Hook
10.Burrows Island
11.Portland Head
12.SE Block Island
13.Assateaque
14.Barnegat
15.Big Bay Point
16.Montauk

Obviously there are some worthy pieces missing. While CH1/2 and Coquille are definitely key pieces, I don't think of them as part of the heart - iow, you can have the core without 'em. (Anybody who acquires these nowadays is v. serious about collecting.) Then there's Nauset and Neddick, the Ledges, New London and Minot's - and some will consider Old Mackinanc, Big Red or Diamond Head.

What does your Sweet 16 look like?

Wow - a list in the FSB :-)
__
/im

It's hard to argue with the list that Tim presented, but you know me. ;-) It's also very hard for me to truncate the list at 16, but I'll reluctantly comply since it's not my game.

First, I'd not automatically include all the Southern Belles just because they are Southern Belles. If you like 'em all, that's fine. They are all worthy pieces. But at least list 'em seperately, for cryin' out loud. If they don't deserve that, should they even be on the list? (Just giving Tim a hard time here, folks. It's my nature).

NPL is a very important piece, but not any more essential than CH2, imo, and available at about the same price. The low edition size makes it highly desireable, but also difficult to include in a list of essential core pieces simply because of it's exclusivity.

I see no major attraction to or importance in either Burrows or Sandy Hook personally, but to each his own.

OK, your turn to rip my list apart. Here 'tis (in HL model number order):

West Quoddy Head
Boston Harbor
Nauset Beach
Southeast Block Island
Tybee Island
Key West
Ocracoke
St. Simons
St. Augustine
Barnegat
Cape Neddick
Holland Harbor
Montauk Point
Assateague
Point Fermin
Big Bay Point

Why these pieces? Cuz.

This is harder than it looks!

------------------
-Art

Lawdy lawdy, a reply! Come quick Ma - we got a reply to our post... :-)

>> at least list 'em seperately, for cryin' out loud<<

The Belles. If ya don't got 'em all, then somethings missing.

Much of the thinking on the The Sweet 16 comes from my Rarity Rating Systems™. The Fog Signal Value Factor very much guided me through my purchases of the 5500 series. The later refinements of the Argand Wick Factor are also born out in the choices I made about this sweet group of 16.

Both Burrows Island (the first Broken Mold piece) and New Point Loma (NPL - the first Reunion piece) are actually much rarer than CH2. The crushing of the Burrows Island mold with over half (2,937) of the pieces unsold was (and still is, imo) quite a significant event in Harbour Lights history. There are 2,737 more Burrows than CH2's. Thats why its in on my Sweet 16 - its funky, kinda homely (at least at first glance) but its a big part of HL, not to mention the 8th piece they issued. (This is not meant to be any slight to one of America's most famous beacons - CH2 is a real nice model.)

NPL. Ah, NPL. If you weren't there it may be hard to imagine the complete awe and delight of the First Reunion goers when they laid eyes on this stunning piece as it was given out in San Diego. Groups of folks hanging out together each marveling at what they held. Whenever I look at New Point Loma I think about the event that brought together - many for the first time - the proto-wackos of the AOL Lighthouse Collectors forum. It was a magical HL time, never to happen again. And with an edition size of only 950 it finds favor as the 5th highest rated piece under the Argand Wick category. Hey - I was tempted to include the Mini, which is still the best small model HL has ever done and ranked 2nd only to CH1.

I agree with Art that Point Fermin as the First Society Piece is a contender. Also glad to see we agree on Barnegat, Montauk and Big Bay. Personally I heartily encourage any serious collector to include these pieces in their collection.

Rgds,
__
/im

P.S.
The Fog Signal Value Factor™ applies only to Retired Pieces and equals 'Days on Market at Retirement minus Days Since Retirement'.
The Argand Wick Factor™; takes Edition Size into account. It equals The Fog Signal Value Factor divided by Edition Size times 1000.

If you want to see the Rarity Rating System in action - and get a copy for yourself, check the free download in the ByTheNumbers forum and several older threads there.

[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 07-21-2000).]

I have only one that comes to mind right now that is not on the list, #181 Thomas Point. I think this is a very important piece to any collection because it is the beginning of metal work. This piece was a giant advance in artwork and detail. I think it is important to the list.

This is difficult and I'll think about it and come up with my other choices.

Joanne

As a Johnny come lately or is that Bob..., my 16 is more a quest for the Holy Grail.
My first leg was for
Montauk
then
Thomas Point
Nauset Beach
Key West
Point Arena
Sandy Hook
SE Block Island
Tybee
St Simons
Portland Head
Barnegat
Ponce de Leon
Cape Neddick
Navesink
Point Fermin
Hilton Head
St Augustine
New London Ledge
West Quoddy
New Point Loma
still seeking Ocracoke

I know that's 21 but that's my final cut!

Is the list in order of aquisition or in random order? Do you actually have all of them in your possession , or are you counting presumed chickens?
just curious

Dennis

Only real chickens here, but your list can be done however you like! Letting this one surface to draw out fresh opine.
[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 02-02-2001).]

In looking back at your Sweet 16, I'm amazed to see that I only am missing the Burrows Island. I guess my collecting has evolved since I began. I have acquired NPL mini and Ocracoke since my posted21. Recently it's kind of a bittersweet experience looking for unattainables as my 3rd revised want list has been fulfilled but...
I will be posting my 16+ when I can make make up my mind. This might make a good survey poll for John. If not, I would hand count the votes for a Sweet 16 if we have enough interest? Points would be counted 16 for the first to 1 for the last(16).

Funny that these topic comes up again. I was just checking my wish list and remembering when this list first appeared. I was trying to get some missing items and found the priorities of others fun to compare. I have gotten all my list except Coquille River--Just can't "jump off the bridge" for the going prices..YET !
If anyone finds a "good deal" on Coquille Please let me have a shot.

thanks

Harry

I’m glad this thread came up again. I meant to respond earlier, but never got around to it. The following are the true “Sweet 16,” from old to new. Trust me. This is it.

CAPE HATTERAS (1991)
How could it not make the list? Hatteras gave us our first lesson in “variations,” when Harbour Lights thickened up the tower (and gave the company an early lesson in “breakage issues”). The original Hatteras is worth more than gold---the second version ain’t exactly going for chump change, either. Apart from its secondary market value, Hatteras is the best-known of the “Original 17” from its inaugural year. If Coquille had the correct number of sides (more on that later) and Burrow’s Island hadn’t been retired early, they undoubtedly would have sold as slowly as their brethren---North Head, Cape Blanco, St. Georges Reef et al. Sandy Hook was popular, to be sure, but not like Hatteras, which retired 5 months ahead of the New Jersey sentinel.

COQUILLE RIVER (1991)
One of the Wonders of the Collectibles World. This gave us our first glimpse into the depth of Bill Younger’s commitment to accuracy, and sparked the first buyers’ feeding frenzy. Today Coquille River, with it’s legendary 6 sides (later corrected to 8 for the GLOW) is an undisputable jewel in the “gotta have” crown. Only 1,138 people are lucky enough to own one. When I become one of them, you will never, ever, ever hear the end of it.

BURROWS ISLAND (1991)
Another fortunate collector stampede was initiated by the early retirement of this lighthouse, which bears more than a passing resemblance to Coquille. Only 2,563 were made. Although its prominence has lessened over the past couple of years, it was a major catalyst for pulling in droves of collectors who saw the secondary market potential of this upstart company.

PORTLAND HEAD (1992)
The “stealth Harbour Light.” This one doesn’t get much press, even though a drool pan is needed when one thinks about what it would look like on the top shelf of the curio cabinet (sitting next to the original Hatteras and Coquille River, of course). Portland Head is a powerhouse---one of the longest and strongest secondary market performers in the line. It’s also one of the first pieces to reach its edition limit without any alterations or re-sculpting.

SOUTHEAST BLOCK (1992)
Folklore helps this one stake its claim on the list. For years no one could find the seahorse on this visually striking piece. Rumor had it that the sculptor placed it under the overturned boat. The only way to actually see the creature was to chip off the boat---like that’s gonna happen! In 1997 or 1998, a sharp-eyed collector spotted it---ON the boat, not under it! Just more fodder for the Harbour Lights mystique. Next to Portland Head, this is the best performer of 1992.

HILTON HEAD, OCRACOKE, ST. AUGUSTINE (1993)
The three truly “gotta have” Southern Belles (but the more the merrier, I say). Ocracoke, originally the dark horse of the 7, has skyrocketed to the forefront with its steadily increasing secondary market value. Hilton Head and St. Augustine are “Wow!™” hall of famers that have their own mythical aura.

ASSATEAGUE (1994)
When a worker at the casting plant in Malaysia dropped the gold master mold of red- and white-striped Assateague, collectors lined up to shake his hand. Today the original sculpture is worth 5 times its retail price. The second mold, which varies slightly from the original, is worth a few shekels, too. The “Assateague Oops” sparked a third major feeding frenzy that brought new collectors and secondary market speculators into the fold. Amazing fact: The average time it took a 1994 sculpture to retire was a mere 15 months!

MONTAUK, BARNEGAT, CAPE NEDDICK (1994)
Along with Assateague, Montauk, Barnegat and Cape Neddick (Nubble) sold like hotcakes. Montauk retired in only 10 months; Barnegat in 12; Cape Neddick in 14. In fact, Assateague, Montauk and Barnegat are the oldest pieces still on the “Top-30 Fastest Retirements” list. These lightning-fast, full-edition retirements sent a signal to collectors everywhere: this company is hot!! (Unfortunately, it was probably around this time that the idea of expanding edition sizes to 9,500 was moving ahead at full speed).

POINT ARENA (1995)
Breakage problems sent this one to the bone heap after 5,428 were produced (out of an expected edition size of 9,500). But unlike Hatteras and Assateague before it, Point Arena wasn’t re-sculpted, but retired with great fanfare, setting off yet another flurry of collector interest. The fine detail of the ill-fated tower and craggy rocks kicked the level of artistry up a couple notches…and gave us more proof that this wasn’t a company content to sit on its laurels.

THOMAS POINT (1996)
This was Harbour Lights’ first real technical breakthrough---a screwpile design so ingenious that it swept up a bunch of awards and retired in a mere three---WEEKS! The company was particularly brave to suspend the keeper’s boat with real string. That must have been a hassle to assemble. Thomas Point is also Bill Younger’s favorite lighthouse. Do YOU want to be the one to tell him it’s not one of the Sweet 16?

SANIBEL (1997)
Remember how long we waited for this stunning light? Shipping delays and the UPS strike pushed the release date back by several months. It technically retired 5 months before its original release date! Sanibel was the high-water mark for Harbour Lights, which would soon become mired in edition sizes that the market couldn’t support (resulting in a glut of ‘97s, ‘98’s and 99’s that continues to clog dealer shelves to this day). Bottom line: this piece did the unthinkable---it topped Thomas Point.

NEW POINT LOMA (1997)
Well who DOESN’T want one of these?? Harbour Lights began having semi-regular collector “reunions” in 1997. As a special gift to attendees, they created a sculpture that wouldn’t be available anywhere else. Less than a thousand were made, and New Point Loma---with its white skeleton tower, southwestern-style house and twin palm trees---became the hottest commodity around. They are available on the secondary market...but only for a lotta dough.

If I see any thread weaving through the Sweet 16 Harbour Lights, it’s the power of scarcity. The buzz---bordering on paranoia---about pieces vanishing from shelves faster than a speeding bullet had a profound snowball effect, and made the company what it is today---a leader in the collectibles field, a bona fide success story with devoted customers. The recent decision to drastically lower edition sizes gives me hope for future collector feeding frenzies---and perhaps new members of the Top 16.

Before I start on my "Sweet 16" list I must say I do enjoy Bill's posts. The one that appears right above this one is a fine example of Bill's work. And, Bill, keep up the great work.

Now on to the topic at hand:

(random order)
Cape Hatteras 2
Burrows
Boston Harbor
Old Mackinac
Portland Head
Nauset
Southeast Block
New London Ledge
Montauk
Ponce de Leon
Tybee
Key West
Holland Harbor
Hilton Head
Barnegat
St. Augustine

I do not own Coquille River so that is left out. As a matter of fact that is the only one I do not own.

You'll notice I left Ocracoke and St. Simons off the list. I'm not knocking them but there are pieces I like better.

Each of the above pieces gave me a real "warm & fuzzy feeling" when I added them to my collection. Southeast Block Island was bought at retail in the summer of 1994. I did not purchase another HL until September 1997. I purchased St. Augustine, CH-2, and Portland Head with three weeks of each other last fall. These were three pieces I thought might be out of my reach but it happend, and I'm glad it did.

Bob

Thank you, Bob. I'm humbled.

Your list is great. If I had all of those, I'd be one happy camper.

And you bring up a good point, namely the difference between the "definitive" core group of lights, and our own personal preferences. My personal list would have included Pemaquid Point, Matinicus Rock, Saugerties, Fort Niagara and New London Ledge. The original Hatteras and Coquille River would be nowhere in sight. But if you're talking about the pieces that define the essence and history of the company, I'd have to go with the list above.

I feel bad that the "youngest" piece on my list is 4 years old. Your youngest is almost 8 years old. I'm hoping that perhaps one of the 4,000 or 6,500 pieces from 2000 will emerge some time in the future as the definitive signal that Harbour Lights was lowering edition sizes. I suppose that would be the Panama Canal Set...or perhaps Oak Island or American Shoal. I'd enjoy putting it on the list (but---Ack!---what would it replace??)


[This message has been edited by Bill Harnsberger (edited 02-05-2001).]

One goal of this thread is to hear how folks parse out the notion of 'heart' or 'core' - the sine qua non ('that without which') in composing a major collection. This is of course all quite fuzzy and there is no correct answer though there may be a definitive one. :-)

I struggled with Cape Hatteras, either 1 or 2, though it was easy to exclude CH1. For some reason I tend to think of CH2 and Portland Head as 'compadres' in terms of popularity, desirability, scarcity, and often price. It wasn't easy to leave it out. However, leaving Coquille off the list was easy. I agree with the notion that its early demise reflects HL's dedication to accuracy, but that alone wasn't enough to include it.

As anyone who has attempted to identify the Sweet 16 quickly realizes, ya gotta make some tough choices. Like so much in life it becomes a matter of compromise and trade-off. I traded CH2 for Big Bay. The first Christmas light with its funky snowman expressed a certain 'esprit' that was ground-breaking for HL and set the tone for whimsy. I can't imagine an HL collection without at least one Christmas Lighthouse - and Big Bay consistently ranks as one of the most popular pieces.

I have a certain fanaticism about The Belles. I see them as a set and as a realizable goal for every serious collector. The are the quiniessential collection that in my mind offers the best of the 'Golden Age' of Harbor Lights and reflects the real genius of Younger & Associates. Once you acquire one of them you cannot deny yourself the others. I cannot imagine anyone who owns all seven able to part with one and leave a void. Across the years each Belle has enjoyed a certain precedence and popularity. Today it may be Ocracoke, but not too very long ago it was Key West. St.Simons, the award winner, is my favorite. Ponce, Hilton Head and Auggie were for a long time the front runners as they were consistently the most difficult to acquire. Tybee showed renewed interest with the reconstruction/re-lighting ceremony.

Its also interesting to hear how folk's views today reflect changing perceptions over time. First I've ever heard of Portland Head referred to as 'stealthy'. True - its not discussed nearly as much as it used to be - perhaps we simply take its importance for granted.

Again - there is no right or wrong to this exercise, so jump in with your own Sweet 16. If you have a substantive collection, or are familiar with the line you'll find its not as easy as it looks.

__
/im

[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 02-06-2001).]

My Current Favorite "17"
Montauk
Fire Island
Thomas Point
Nauset Beach
Point Arena
Sandy Hook
Southeast Block Island
Portland Head
Assateague
Cape Neddick
Navesink
Hilton Head
St Augustine
New London Ledge
West Quoddy
Ocracoke
Boca Grande

It's hard to break up the Southern Belles. But I had to to get down to my list. Boca Grande is my idea of a perfect beach house. '17' because it's my number! Yes, I know it's east coast heavy. All great picks from other WACKO's above. - I've never seen a Coquille, CH1/2 or a Burrows live so...

I brought this back up for several reasons. first I'll list mine(in a separate post); I thought more people should offer a list and this topic really requires some thought.Let's see some others jump in.
Warren

1-7 Southern Belles
8.Cape Hatteras mold 2
9.Coquille River
10.Big Bay Point
11.Assateague mold 1
12.Southeast Block Island
13.Portland Head
14.Any AP or Paint Master
15.One of the Green Water pieces
16. One piece California mold

[This message has been edited by wclark (edited 08-07-2001).]

Everbody's got great responses. Here's mine with a little twist. (Too hard to put in any order).

1. Admiralty Head (I lived next to it for 9 years while in the NAVY).

2. Mukilteo (I hope I spelled it right!!! Get it!!! Great to see coming off the Whidbey Island ferry).

3. Diamond Head (Hiked up it every chance I got. Awesome view!).

4. Point Fermin (Concieved there. Need I say more).

5. Needles (Visited on my only trip to England some 20 years ago. First of many I hope!!!).

6. New Point Loma (A relief to see after a 6 month WESTPAC. You never realize how good a life you have until you've been away)

7. Old Pt. Loma (Son concieved there).

8. St Augustine (Just a beautiful piece)

9. Cape ST George (It just doesn't look any better than in gold. I didn't get a chance to say it, but, thank you to Debbie from Harbour Lights, you put the zinnnng back in my life!)

10. Eddystone (It's history is an unusual one, but greatly detailed. I'll catch flack for this, but it's a great 10th Anniversary piece).

11. Cape Hatteras-Mold 2 (It put the meaning in "I gotta have it now!!, I don't care what it costs".)

12. La Jument (Such a great Guichard poster. I would just like to have signed by him).

13. Fresnel Lense (The heart of the lighthouse. I hope one of many)

14. Statue of Liberty (Means so much to so many. What America is all about).

15. Portsmouth (Have never seen it, but don't think I need to now. Rich in history and well detailed. Just need Connie's signature on it and I'll be smiling for a long time!).

16. LA Harbour (Not out yet. Doesn't need to be. It's sold!!! Long, long, time coming. Something to remind me of those great Santa Catalina island trips and of those to come)

Here's 16 from my wish list. Subject to change if any body cares to help me out!

1. Cape Hatteras Mold 1
2. Assateague Mold 1 Flag #988. Almost had my hands on it. Thanks Rothman.
3. Any California edition
4. Portland Head
5. Coquille River
6. Mukilteo (misspelled)
7. Split Rock (wrong state)
8. Pt. Vicente (Where are you!!)
9. Beavertail (Yellow)
10. Barnegat (Green and Blue)
11. Hilton Head
12. Ocracoke Island
13. Any Artist Proof (Preferably LA Harbour)
14. Sandy Hook
15. Navesink (Such a big piece. Another curio to go with it, please!)
16. Anything else that no one else has. Sorry, but I'm obsessed with Harbour Lights. What can I say. I'm a collector. I'm hooked!!

Yes, Of course you do. Same with #7.

Welcome to the Forums!

I wanted to put this topic back on top. I thought it was very interesting because everybody has there own favorites and the reasons why. I was disappointed that not too many people participated. I would like to know what your favorite pieces are. It doesn't have to be 16. Also, what may be your least favorite and why.

Thanks for bringing this back up, Jeff. Although anyone can list anything, let me remind our dear readers what we're after here.



And as far as Cape St. George not looking any better in gold - bravo, well said, spoken like a man who doesn't have a couple. LOL!

From the flightdeck of the Foglifter somewhere over Mackinac Island,

__
/im
[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 09-23-2001).]

My 9/28/2001 Favorite "17"
Montauk
Fire Island
Thomas Point
Nauset Beach
Point Arena
Long Beach Bar
Southeast Block Island
Portland Head
Cold Spring Harbor
Cape Neddick
Cape Hatteras 2
Hilton Head
St Augustine
New London Ledge
West Quoddy
Ocracoke
Boca Grande

Every one of the lights in my collection is a favorite in one way or another each for its own reason.I love them all. I started out collecting east coast lights and now collect from all overand still have never found a light I didn't love.Bill O'Brien

I love Harbour Lights! Some I love more than others. Here are my favorites:

New Point loma (most expensive piece)
Barnegat Green Water (not everybody has one)
Tybee Island (Mike proposed there )
Keywest (Our first trip together)
Hilton Head ( Just bought at retail last week)
Diamond Head (Diamonds are a girl's best friend)
Southeast Block Island (This is what my house will look like when I hit the lott )
Thomas Point (Like it's unique shape)
Cape Florida (I'm a Florida native)
Rose Island (Wonderful memories of my 1st reunion)
Alcatraz ( Has a lot of history )
Cape Elizabeth (Visited during '98 reunion)
Bald Head ( Mike's loosing his hair )
Big Bay Point ( First in series)

So now you have my favorites I hate Navesink. (It's big and ugly)

It's nice to hear everyone's stories of their favorite lighthouses!

Let's hear from some of the newer collectors...

What do you think are the most important pieces to a serious collection? Can you name only 16?

T

I'm not a new collector but new to the Forums in the past year. Here goes for what it's worth:

1. Coquille River(my hardest to get piece)
2. Ponce De Leon(my 1st piece)
3. Cape Hatteras(any version)
4. Boston Harbor(no GLOW)
5. St Augustine
6. St. Simon's
7. Key West
8. Old Point Loma
9. West Quoddy
10. Point Arena
11. Assateaque
12. Cape Canaveral
13. Old Mackinac
14. Ocracoke
15. Cape Neddick
16. Portland Head
17. Southeast Block
18. Diamond Head

Sorry, the list is never ending as I've just touched on the tip of it. These "ugly old pieces" just have charm like the new ones will never have.

Rich