OK, what is going on with this Forum. Surely someone has a complaint. I can't believe eneryone is completely 100% satisfied with everything that's going on. That is unconstitutional and unamerican. How about the fact that HL is bring out a BRAND new version of Minot's Ledge and it is going to be a Special Open Edition. What about BY remark that he would never bring out an Open Edition anything without it first being a Limited Edition something. I think this comment was made after the last set of lighthouses came out as open editions and then reclassified them to limited editions(i.e Alcatraz, Thirty Mile Point). What's everybody think about this? Why could'nt HL come out with a 4000 piece limited run and then change it to an open edition like they did with the first Anchor Bay ships?

Rich

Rich

In the spirit of things I think since Minots Ledge has been produced as a Limited Edition Bill is covered on the debate. Not to many details on what a Special Open Edition is. Was SOL a Special Limited Edition or Special Open Edition? Is this a GLOW? If so I will by mine at a garage sale or on Ebay in a few years, there's never a rush for Open Editions when you are a "Collector".

imho

SOL was a timed piece, which "limited" it to the number sold during a specific time frame. Other pieces, i.e. the Winner's Choice pieces are also "time limited" and are classified "Limited Editions" as was SOL.

The Old Minots can't really be classified as a GLOW can it? I mean HL can't donate $ from each piece sold to it's preservation when it's long gone (GLOP). Whatever fancy moniker it has it is an Open Edition. For those who desire to collect all the HL's Limited Editions I would think this one wouldn't be a necessary purchase.

As stated by someone elsewhere, Old Minots will probably be a love it or hate it type piece, similar perhaps to the Eddystone piece? Eddystone seems to have done alright at 7000 but then again it was a Limited (timewise)Edition. Will be interesting to see what sort of numbers Old Minots will come up with.

This one isn’t bothering me too much.
I would not want the old Minots Ledge as a limited edition with flashing light and waves that light up. Bill is trying something new and different and I think he may be reaching out to an other type of
collector.
I hope Harbour lights will eventually come out with the same lighthouse as a L.E. (one that the waves don’t light up) and have the waves as the LaJument as mentioned by an other collector on this forum.

I consider the Old Minots Ledge, a Harbour light accessories like a t-shirt, New York skyline, or a Bill tree. Not a Harbour light collectable, so I will have nothing to do with it.

If I can pick one up at e-bay for 35 BUCKS I will and use it as a nightlight in our bedroom. Other than that I don’t want to pay $99 for this one.

Daniel

The fact that HL has produced Minot's Ledge already as a LE should not enter into the fact that this stilted version should also be a LE. It is a totally different version the same as St. Augustine and Old St. Augustine were. I haven't totally decided whether to buy it or not. I wouldn't have a doubt if it were going to be a LE but as an OE(be it GLOW or Special OE) I'm just not sure.

One thing is for sure and that is if HL does not slow down a little bit on the number of new releases, either my collection is going to dwindle or I will have to give up totally because of space and MONEY. I have tryed to buy all the LE but something has got to give. I haven't really counted them up this year but it seems like it is approaching 30 LE issues this year(including the Regional pieces). I love the lights and I love HL but I also love my wife and I don't know how much more she'll let me buy. Anybody else have this problem? And in my case, the solution is not to buy selectively because I'm a "go for it all" or "go for nothing" personality.

Rich

As I've stated before---and remember folks, I'm the unofficial voice of total reason and impartiality when it comes to formal critical analysis of Harbour Lights product (I'd be official except they don't offer dental...but that's another story)---Minot's Ledge is FLAWED!! Dangerously so. That cheap semi-transparent acrylic should never have made its way over on the slow boat from China. It is imperative that Harbour Lights recall ALL of these misfires and re-sculpt it using proper materials. They can use LaJument as a guide (or even the original Minot's Ledge, which has an angry wave lapping at the tower).

To quote Yoda: "Faux crystal to the dark side leads. Pain. Suffering. Begun this Giftware War has..."

Bill, I am in total agreement with you. You've saved many a flawed piece from being released prematurely (most notably, Race Point, MA and Point Vicente, CA). And thanks for quoting me correctly---the media tends to screw it up every time.

---Yoda

Bill, is the blender broken?

I didn't know the wave lights up...wow! Everytime I look at the latest HL flyer with the Old Minot's Ledge on the front, I can't wait to part with my $99. If anyone can find one of these beauties on eBay for $35, MIB, I'll give you $50 for it and give it away as a gift. Three people would be happy then: you because you just made $15, me because I didn't have to pay $99 for a giveaway, and my good friends who would receive it as a gift.

Please put me on record as liking HL 646.

Bob

I like it too but I'm with Sean...I don't collect open edition ANYTHING...

Bob, how long does that offer apply?

I contacted HL this afternoon and voiced my opinion about making the stilted version an open edition of any kind. I suggested that they bring out the first 4-5 thousand as a limited edition and then add a letter prefix and continue with it as an open edition. Another option would be to have the limited edition have a keeper on the catwalk and the open edition have no keeper. I would buy as a limited edition but still can't make up my mind if it's an open edition. I reminded HL that Bill had promised no open editions of any lights unless it was a LE first.

Rich

Rich
How about the first 2,000 have a LaJument size wave, so that we can see the tower. I am a lighthouse lover, not a wave lover. Also make the waves of cold porcelain not clear resin. I think I could live with the flashing light.

Daniel

I never did intend to collect all of what HL comes out with but with this "in question" design, I'll save my $$ for an inexpensive ticket to see a real lighthouse. It just doesn't go with my collection...I'll wait for the next version, perhaps---maybe.
Derith

I'm sorry but it just looks like a Lennox rip-off. They used the same blue acrylic "wave" in the past on a lighthouse sculpture. Even though it was pretty, I always thought it looked too much like a souvenir shop trinket.

Anyone can make acrylic "waves". HL's always impressed me with their realistic sculpted waves that only they could produce so well. I hope HL's doesn't make it a habit of "Lowering" their excellent standards in the name of variety.

I wonder if the Minot's Ledge is going to be numbered.
And if so, will it have a letter infront
of the production number like the G.L.O.W.?

Daniel

Has anybody else contacted HL on the open edition versus limited edition or about the acrylic wave? I know they listen to the collectors and it still isn't to late for a final production change. There really seems to be quite a bit of controversy about this piece. Maybe I'll buy it just to have it as a conversation piece. At least it won't be a GLOW(my most unfavorite thing that HL produces).

Rich

Hi Sean, ...How long does the offer apply? Well I wouldn't buy more than one extra to giveaway because I only have one couple that I give HL's to as gifts. The offer would stand until I purchased that "one extra".

I can't wait to see this piece in person. I really like the way it looks in the picture on the new flyer. I understand why some collectors are shying away. This piece is a radical change from the standard HL.

Don't be afraid of change, ladies & gentlemen! Limited change can be good at times.

Bob

No need for me to contact Harbour Lights, I'm pretty sure they know my feelings on Open Editions. Personally I think it's an attractive piece. My beef has been and always will be the number of Open Editions being produced and how they compete for shelf space on the dealers shelves and inventory.

But Bob if I wanted something different then I would collect from another company.


terry


[This message has been edited by Dave H (edited 06-19-2002).]

Terry, If there was no change, no improvements, no attempts to bring better things would you still be satisfied with the same quality of the original 17? No Fresnel lens, no skeleton towers, no thumbnails, no pewter railings -- you get my point, If HL never tried new ideas they would have probably gone by the wayside by now. I'll hold my judgment until I see it - Maybe I'll like it maybe I won't. I don't like the idea of it being an open edition or special edition but that won't affect my decision on whether or not I like the material the water is cast out of. Change is good, or at least ok.

Mark I disagree. There are enough different lights that HL didn`t have to start venturing out into the toy market. I think HL would still be around and doing great keeping it the same quality as the original 17. Sure small design mistakes, felt thats not perfect, paint, that over times does a little fading. I not saying everything new is bad, but this is ridiculous. HLs with batteries, that flash, that stay lit, that require a wall outlet. What toys are next?
Sure there`ll be people that buy them, but will it be at a price? Many more trinkets and I can see their hardcore buying base slipping away. I also know some out there will buy just for the fact that they buy them all..........big deal!
[This message has been edited by TERRY BARFIELD (edited 06-19-2002).]

I seem to recall that forums types were leading the charge suggesting that the Fresnel should be lit up? Seems to me that HL has responded to what was asked of them. The new Minots piece is intended to be very special, and for a very special reason. They are experimenting with several new ideas and types of technology. Maybe it will be a top seller, maybe not. But as Mark said, you have to try and push the envelope, try something new to stay at the front of the pack. Like many, I'm not thrilled about it not being an LE, but will reserve my opinion for another week or so.

Dave

Dave you can probably count on both hands the number of people that said they wanted a lens that lit up. True, the Forum is only a small sampling of HL`s customers and I`m sure they did get many requests for that.(From people other than Forum members.)
As far as the pack you`re talking about, who else is still in "the" pack.
I feel HL is sort of out there by themselves and can afford to take more chances with their product line.
As far as being an LE or OE, that does not change the way the lighthouse looks.
[This message has been edited by TERRY BARFIELD (edited 06-19-2002).]

[This message has been edited by TERRY BARFIELD (edited 06-19-2002).]

That is exactly the point, Terry. They can afford to take a chance with their line, and they sure are. Folks may end up not liking how all the technology was used, but there may be parts of this concept piece that get put to interesting use in future, more "traditional" looking HL pieces.

Dave

Just curious Dave, which was the last one where you stated that you didn`t really care for a certain piece ?

Don't know that I have, Terry, but there are some I don't particularly care for. Ida Lewis comes to mind, and more recently Sullivan's Island. (Never gave that one a chance, as I don't care for the tower in real life. Personal opinion.)

As a rule, I would tend to believe that each HL has something to like about it. Maybe the way it is depicted, maybe the technology, amybe the little things that you have to look for. I would rather look for a reason to like the product than look for one to dislike it.

imho,
Dave

Very good point Dave. One that I should practice more often. Thanks.

Dave I guess that`s just a basic difference in being humans.
Like Digger said, thats a good characteristic.
It just looks like some of us refuse to be lemmings.
I never said this piece was ugly, I said it didn`t look an HL product. Just like the "Stone", it looks more like a toy.
People shouldn`t have to apologize for not liking a piece, but on here it often done. Why apologize? Its your opinion.
I`ve stated mine and you`ve reserved judgement on yours till you actually examined it up close and personal.
[This message has been edited by TERRY BARFIELD (edited 06-20-2002).]

That's what is great about the forums - each person is still allowed to have their own opinion. Bottom line is buy what you like, don't buy what you don't. If HL wants to experiment and take a chance, more power to them.

I am a little confused by your implication that others are lemmings?

from Webster's:

imho,
Dave

I think the bottom line is:

Harbour Lights, like many companies has to produce what the consumer will or might buy.

Most companies experiment with different ideas and see what happens in the marketplace. Harbour Lights is no different! Some ideas will work, some will not! I have witnessed through these forums that Harbour Lights has never made a figurine that everyone will like or buy. I also believe that if they still made lighthouses just like the original 17, they would be out of business today! Could you imagine what Admiralty Head, Old Point Loma, Sand Island, etc. would look like if made in 2002 instead of 1991? I would think there would be a huge improvement on these and other pieces!

No matter what they produce, there will be some out there for some reason or another that will not like it or buy it! Dave said it all above, if you like it buy it, if you don't like it, don't buy it! IMHO
[This message has been edited by Randy Kremer (edited 06-20-2002).]

Yeah...where the #@!!$# is the Admiralty Head GLOW?

All these comments are based on the photo? I'll reserve my judgement 'til I have the HL in my hands. When Bill described it to me it sounded like a pretty neat idea. I guess we'll have a the real reaction after Rosemount!

What would we have if Harbour Lights still made lighthouses like the original 17?

Lightning rods, for one thing!

Dave

!
[This message has been edited by TERRY BARFIELD (edited 06-20-2002).]

[This message has been edited by TERRY BARFIELD (edited 06-20-2002).]

I truly love these discussions. They're the main reason I first joined the Forums. I tend to be of the same opinion as Dave. I buy the lights that I like. I also buy them out of the sheer joy that I get from collecting them, and visiting them. I know we've touched on this before, but I could care less what my collection is worth. To me it's invaluable. If HLs comes out with a GLOW, and I like it, I'll buy it in a heartbeat. I don't believe it will diminish my collection. Anyway, not to get too far off the discussion at hand. If Harbour Lights made everything of the same style, they would not have the incredible following that they now enjoy. By changing things up every so often, there's a good possibility that they'll attract an even stronger following. They may attract a few first time customers with a new style. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I really don't think there are many one time only HL customers. If Minot's Ledge turns out to be a flop, and nobody buys it, I'm sure they'll think twice about sculpting another light in that mold. That doesn't appear to be the case, though. There seems to be a good number of people interested in seeing Old Minot's Ledge. Personally, I don't really like the looks of it. But I'd rather HLs try new designs once in awhile, than just go with whatever sells. Who knows, next time they try a new style, maybe I'll really like it. I don't want to miss out on that as a collector. Do you?

Jared

........
[This message has been edited by TERRY BARFIELD (edited 06-20-2002).]

.....

[This message has been edited by Bill Harnsberger (edited 06-20-2002).]

Do tell Bill. It does look like Dippity Doo.


[This message has been edited by TERRY BARFIELD (edited 06-20-2002).]

...

[This message has been edited by TERRY BARFIELD (edited 06-20-2002).]

This was my favorite.

[This message has been edited by TERRY BARFIELD (edited 06-20-2002).]

[This message has been edited by TERRY BARFIELD (edited 06-20-2002).]

Hey Terry, watch out linking in photos from other web sites. You maybe in violation of copyright laws, etc..........

Something else to think about.........

Thanks Sean, I`ll edit.

Bob my remarks are based on my dislike of Open Editions. I like the piece but don't need it in an open edition. Make it a limited and I'll buy it!!!!!!!!!!

Then why don't you CALL Harbour Lights and tell them that instead of letting them assume that all is well. I called and they said that I was the first that had voiced my opinion about it being an open edition. In case you forgot the number let me refresh everyones memories. It is 800-365-1219 and it may not be too late to have it come out as a limited edition. As far as the looks of it I think it is great looking(from the picture) and would buy it in a second if it were limited. Open edition I am still thinking and would have to see it in person. But, CALL-CALL-CALL and let them know how you feel instead of sitting back and letting it come out as an open edition.

Rich

Some of us have been SCREAMING at them for YEARS about open eds and it hasn't done any good...so far...

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and the right to tell anyone they want about that opinion. No SCREAMING is necessary.

We wouldn't have the high quality limited editions we do today if there were not GLOWs and Little Lights. And those lighthouses sculpted as GLOWs wouldn't be enjoying the financial support they got from Harbour Lights.

From time to time, Harbour Lights tries out new ideas. The 5th Order Fresnel, for example. The response was great and so we have at least 3 more. They get better as they go along -- if you like them lighted.

Anchor Bay was a new idea a few years back. HL learned several lessons from their introduction. Buyers didn't like 'generic ships'; they did like USCG ships and boats.

HL tried out the pewter leafless tree on Old Field Point NY -- and ended up having to replace the trees on every numbered release. I'm sure they didn't make a penny on that issue. Now we are seeing a leafless tree on one of the Fort Tompkins versions.

Buy what you like. Don't buy what you don't like. Enjoy collecting and enjoy talking about it with other collectors in the Forums, at chats and at Harbour Lights events.

The challenge of owning them all is almost too much for those who have started collecting in the past 5-7 years. And where would you put them all, if you had them?

Create the collection you want.


[*]Great Lakes Lights

[*]Michigan Lighthouses

[*]Lake Michigan Lighthouses

[*]Lighthouses built before 1875

[*]Tall tower lighthouses

[*]Lighthouses you've visited

[*]All the versions of your favorite lighthouse

Judge each lighthouse as it is released. If it fits into your plan for collecting and you like it then add it.




[This message has been edited by JChidester (edited 06-21-2002).]

You left out one thing that is just as important to the collector John. A collectible worth what you paid for it. It's getting to the point where I could careless about the edition number I am getting, I could careless about my dealer because they are doing nothing for me other than insuring I get that number. Other than personal dedication to friends and Harbour Lights, why should I be paying retail for limited editions?

I agree with the statement that anybody starting in the last 5-7 years would have a hard time getting all the LE issues because even when I started in early 1994 I had a difficult time and had to do a lot of wheeling and dealing to pick up the early pieces. GLOWS do have their place but not in my collection unless it is a "special" piece and truly the stilted Minot's Ledge may be just that. But why did HL go against what they had already learned years ago and bring out a "totally different version" of a previously issued LE and make it a "special open edition" instead of a LE like they did with St. Augustine/Old St. Augustine? I thought they had learned from their previous experiment back in 95-96 when they brought out GLOWS before they had issued LE of several lighthouses. I don't really care of what material the piece is made of as long as it is up to Harbour Light's quality but I do care that they are not giving their dedicated hard core collector base a chance to buy it as a limited edition. If a collector doesn't care whether they buy a limited or open edition then let them wait for the open edition, but, I do care. I enjoy my collection and while I am collecting for the pure enjoyment of loving lighthouses, I also care that my collection retains it's original retail value. If anybody out there says that they don't care if their collection retains it value or increases in value, then I will be glad to trade for your LE Coquille and Cape Hatteras lighthouses and send you some open editions of the same. I will even pay for the shipping both ways. GLOWS and Open Editions of any kind have directly led to the devaluation of your LE collection and it will continue to get worst as more GLOWS are put out. New collectors will continue to buy these instead of scrimping and saving and plotting and wheeling and dealing as I did to get my limited editions. True there are some pieces that are totally untouchable to the new collector but a good portion of the later LE pieces are still reasonable and attainable but when you can but a GLOW for $40-$50 most new collectors don't want to spend $100-$125 to buy the limited edition. This is what is slowing degrading the values of our collections.

Oh well, these are my thoughts(again) on this subject and they will never change even though I have continually voiced them to Harbour Lights. I have the right to collect or not collect and I will continue to collect until it is not fun anymore and for the time being it is still fun.

Rich

I think that's the real key - collect what you want. If anyone else has a problem with that, too bad.

Limited editions don't necessarily hold their value either, at least they haven't in the past year! From the economy these days, it looks like there are bargains everywhere! From the Marketplace, to Ebay, to stores either going out of business or discontinuing the line, its the biggest buyers market I have ever seen! If I was just starting to collect, I bet I could get the biggest part of this collection for well under retail! I know many pieces are not that way, but the majority of the collection is! So, in my opinion, to collect just limited editions because they hold their value, isn't true, at least at this stage of the game. Some have, many haven't. I buy what I like, and that includes most of the pieces that Harbour Lights have produced!

I think Digger really hit the nail on the head when he said this piece looks like a Lenox product. We have one of the Lenox lighthouses, but we display it in a different area because it sure doesn't look good with the HL products.

Marilyn

How about collecting:

The 5500s

Canadian made.

Lighthouses with lighting rods.

Lighthouses with variations.

Its been years since I heard that kind of talk.




------------------
Daniel

this thread is continued
here