We often hear of closeout sales, dealers dropping the line, or in some cases, going out of business.

Are there any statistics regarding how many dealers add the HL line to their store offerings as opposed to how many drop the line yearly?

When a dealer is closing or dropping the line, collectors tend to visit the store a little more often looking for deals before the store pulls the plug. When a new dealer takes on the line, collectors are less likely to visit because the new dealer won't have any older pieces or low number pieces that people search for.

Dealers need to sell to survive. Either they can make a good profit on each piece they sell or they can hope volume sales at discounted prices will yield a satisfactory profit.

If the collectible industry as a whole is suffering, I wonder if we will someday see such a decline in retail sales that some collectibles will be directly through the manufacturer by mail-order only.

Any thoughts on this subject?

Bob

I would bet that there are more going than there are coming.
We used to have eight dealers here in my area. Now there are only three left that I know of.
Also there are dealers that are just carrying the LLOM line.

I kind of doubt it unless you have a line as diversified as Danbury Mint (are they still around?). I doubt seriously that if Harbour Lights had begun this way that I would have ever heard of them nor would I have purchased a lighthouse. For me the excitement was walking into the dealer, seeing the lighthouse, and talking to the dealer about the line, this got me over the hump to finally start collecting.

This area of north central Florida has held fairly steady with dealers. Gainesville (2), Leesburg (1) and Ocala (2) back in 1994 when I started collectin had 5 dealers that sold LE Harbour Lights. Eight years later there are now also 5 dealers in Gainesville (1), Leesburg (1) and Ocala (3) selling limited editions. There are also several dealers selling just GLOWS and LLOM but because of my feeling on GLOWS I couldn't give you an exact count. Jacksonville has had a decrease in dealer I beleive and Daytona has held failrly steady also. The state of the Harbour Lights Lighthouses in central Florida is in pretty good shape.

Rich

I sure hope this doesn't happen with Harbour Lights! When would I ever get to see Bill and Nancy and hear their wonderful stories

MelJB

Danbury Mint is still alive and well as far as I can tell! I haven't gotten any of their full size pieces in a few years - no more room! I still get their lighthouse plates and I am always getting new information on what's coming out next. I still get a catalog from time to time of everything they sell. Just last week, I received some information on their new lighthouse line - Lost Lights, starting with Cape Hatteras.

Like them or not, the detail on all of their products is very good! They will probably survive because of all the different things they sell.

One of my dealers, for the first time ever, has set up a 50% off table for pieces that just haven't sold over the years, some of which he has 6 or seven boxes of in the back room. I don't blame him, and I certainly hope Harbour Lights is being lenient with their "no sale" policy to help drive some old inventory out the door.

This is always a interesting, luring, and contraversial topic....

I agree with more are going than coming..... I have seen to may stores selectively selling HLs or no longer seller HLs at all for what ever reasons from Viriginia to Maine.

I have heard that it is not as bad as we hear all the time since new dealers comes online as old dealers quit selling HLs products. I think this is a crock! Yeah, new dealers selling LLOMs and GLOWs really compare to the old dealers that sold LEs. What's wrong with this picture. The collectability of the LEs lights are getting hurt with the other products that are being "pumped" out by the numbers for tourists.

For example, here in Bangor, ME...the HL website states a few dealers in the area. Well guess what, I have checked them all out over the holidays and either they are selling them to get rid of to reduce inventory (which you didn't hear from me) or the dealers only have a selective inventory (meaning all lighthouses from Maine).

Now, what the heck is going on. With all the tourism that this states has during the summer and fall months, why are HLs not selling well enough that the dealers can't offer the buyer all the current HLs lighthouses.

It seems to me, that besides the southern part of the state (Portland and southward), HL are darn near gone. I guess I will need to drive 3 hours to LHD for the latest issues.

Thanks for letting me " BLOW" my FOG HORN !!

In 1997 there was 13 Harbour light dealers in Jacksonville Florida.
Now there is only 6 that handle the limited editions and these 6 by no way sell as much as they did in 1997. This is why Harbour lights is cutting down production from 10,000 to 5500. Not because they are listening to collectors.

The only thing in HL favor is that they make the best lighthouse ever. Other than that every thing else is against them.
1. Ebay is killing the secondary market.
2. All the popular and well-known lighthouses have all ready been made.
3. The threat of war.
4. The economy.
5. The main frame Lighthouse collectors are flooded with lighthouses and wondering why they have to collect them all.
6. The general collector attitude is that if they hold out a little longer they will get it cheaper. In 1997 the attitude was I better buy it now or the next time it will cost more.
7. Harbour Light is also hurting themselves with the GLOWS.

The only thing that would help a new dealer would be that a few variations or very low productions were released to all dealers equally. Harbour Lights perfect Production control has in some ways hurt it. The collectors need some excitement to track down a rare variation or a very limited production.
Look how popular the lighting rods and green water are. It would put the excitement back in collecting if H.L. would release some special editions with something different like a rod or water color variation.
Maybe the first 1000 of an edition could come out with lighting Rod. Collectors would again go and check all the dealers for it, even the new ones.

The other solution that would help sell Harbour Lights again is one that us collectors don’t want to hear. Instead of bringing back the popular lights in a GLOW. Bring back the popular lights in L.E.s
It would definitely help if there was something different about it. Maybe redone in a winter or fall format.

Bravo Daniel !!
I couldn't have said it better myself.

"Instead of bringing back the popular lights in a GLOW. Bring back the popular lights in L.E.s
It would definitely help if there was something different about it. Maybe redone in a winter or fall format."

I would like to see some of these retired lights done differently for example:
Portland Head in winter or East Qouddy without the snow. Even a real good version of West Qouddy which hasn't yet been made. The smartest new release this year is SE Block Island on the move.

How about the Three Sisters of Nauset or the Twin Lights of Chatham?

If you want to ruin what is left of the secondary market, I real good way is new versions of the earlier lighthouses... I personally don't want 5 or 6 versions of the same 12 popular lighthouses..

We are already getting that with pieces like Hatteras on the Move (special event pieces) etc..

I think the lighthouse craze a few years back which caused 9500 edition sizes of lighthouses less popular than those "12" most popular and a glut of stock on the shelves has caused stores problems moving it off of the shelves. Stores are not collectors and don't just want a collection sitting there..

I also think that there were way too many stores selling the limited edition HL lighthouses and a lot of them were doing a bad job of displaying them and selling them...

I am starting to ramble so I will stop here but I really don't want multiple versions of a few lighthouses to me that is the same thing as making multiple GLOWS of the same lighthouse...

Thank you Paul! I agree that new versions of the old lights (LE's) would just be another way of putting another type of GLOW on the market and really ruin what's left of the secondary market. I for one have no intention of selling my LE's, but it's nice to know that some of them, derfinitely not all of them are worth more than I paid for them. Makes them kinda special IMHO.

Bert

Most of us Harbour Lights collectors are not interested in the secondary market. We just want to have a nice product to display in our homes. If Harbour Lights were to make a 5500 run LE of Portland Head with snow, I bet it would retire very quickly. Look at your product history list. The first Portland GLOW sold 7342 and it wasn't even that nice of a piece. The second GLOW which was much nicer than the first has probably sold even more. It is the same with SE Block Island and Boston Harbor. I am sorry to say that those of you who do not want LE remakes or GLOWS of some of the more popular lights are definitely in the minority as far as what the buying public would want. And it is the buying public not the secondary market that makes profit for Harbour Lights.

Sorry Paul but you no I have always been on the other side of the fence with that idea. Imho I feel that a Limited Edition Lighthouse of significantly different mold is always better than Open Editions. Fortunately for Hatteras all of the GLOWs/Open Editions have been of lesser appeal than the LE, imho. Of course I am not asking for 5, 6+ ....versions of lets say Hatteras, Portland Head, Heceta Head, etc...... With proper management a Limited Edition is more appealing. With a Limited Edition you have true Collectors wanting both versions for their limited availability. There is no market for GLOWs if you are a collector of limited editions, imho.

It has always been my wish that Harbour Lights would produce a winter wonderland version of Portland Head or even Boston Harbor in the scale of lets say Nauset, Nubble or Old Point Comfort. Yep they're big but can you just imagine them? They would be center pieces of the collection.

I happen to own every GLOW that Harbour Lights makes...

What I don't want to see is 12 of a popular light made and none of the lesser lights made as a result.. Remakes means there is no such thing as "a limited edition" of a lighthouse since there would just be another, then another version of the same lighthouse. I want a collection of many different and varied lighthouses of the world! Don't kid yourself that most collectors don't care about a secondary market.... whether they they use it by reselling or not most would like to believe that their collection is worth something and not just for the beautiful job that Harbour Lights does in making them...

I personally have a hard time even selling my extra lighthouses but when I do to make some room, it sure is nice if I can at least get back what I paid for them..

BTW that second Portland GLOW had a real nice postcard that came with, I hear....

Years ago I started buying all the GLOWS that were put out and eventually had the first 21 before I stopped. I stopped about the time that they retired Barnegat (Slim Tower) and came out with a revised edition. Why didn't they just discontinued production and maybe that GLOW would be worth some money these days? I just felt I could see the handwriting on the wall with the GLOWS. I felt that HL was just going to keep coming out with different versions of each GLOW as the sales of the previous ones declined. This is a sure way to keep the market flooded with these plaster "Beanie Babies". I even told BY in a phone call of my feelings on the GLOWS and referred to them as Beanie Babies for the non-serious collectors. He didn't take to kindly to my reference to the Beanie's and I told him that I didn't like the idea of my limited editions that I worked so hard to get suffering from the glut of GLOWS on the market.

I sold my entire GLOW collection minus Split Rock and Marblehead from my Stamp Series and have only purchased a Hatteras GAL and Coquille GLOW since that time. The GAL is a collectible item and the Coquille sits with my LE Coquille as a comparison piece. Since that time I have concentrated solely on LE pieces and watched my collection grow in value. I have also watched it decrease in value with the continued issue of GLOWS glutting the market (even while the LE pieces are still available at retail prices). Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder as some "collectors" say the GLOWS are much more attractive, but, in the long run when the secondary market does return (and I'm a firm believer that it will), the GLOW will still be a GLOW and only worth the original price and the LE, in most cases, will at least double in price. Now, for those of you that say you collect because you enjoy it, and say the value of your collection doesn't matter, contact me and I will sell you some equisite swampland here in Florida and you can tell all your friends that you own waterfront property. I just wish that I had the money to blow on things and not care about their value like many indicate, but, I do care about the value of my collection and don't care to see anymore issues (GLOWS or Special LE) of lighthouses that have already been produced by HL. If I would have wanted to start collecting numerous issues of the same popular lighthouse, I would have collected Spencer Colin Lighthouses. I still have'nt been able to figure how many different versions of Ponce De Leon and Hatteras she came out with. Everybody knows how her business thrived and where it's at today. Hopefully HL will not take this path and lead many down it. I know, as much as I love collecting HLs, if this happens, someone else will be buying my autoship number and I will be advertising on Ebay for an entire LE collection. First there came Hatteras-On-The-Move (a special edition to help celebrate the successful move of one of the most beloved lighthouses in the U.S.) and now we have Portland Head-On-The-Move (a second effort by HLs to make money off a successful Hatteras venture). What will be next, Cape Henlopin before the tumble? Enough is enough already!

In a final statement on the subject of introducing revised versions of previouly produced limited editions I emphatically say NO. Produce the less popular lighthouses for the true HL LE collectors and let everyone else look at their GLOW collection. This, as always, is my total unbiased opinion.

Rich

I absolutely agree!

Here is where our opinions differ. A remake to me would be a re-issue of the first mold. This would be a definate no no! If Harbour Lights introduces a significantly different mold they have introduced a new Limited Edition. It's the collectors choice if they wish to add an additional version to their collection just as you made the decision to add Cape Hatteras on the move to yours. Of course what I am looking for here is to make a significant difference between the Open Edition and the Limited Edition with an end result of the Collector not settling for an Open Edition to fill the gap. Open Editions should be in the gift shops targeting tourists right along side the LLOMs and not in the Collectible Stores.

I think most of us agree here. That's why I think with management new molds would not hurt or destroy a secondary market. For those of us that want a varied collection we can't forget that there are collectors out there that are collecting regionally and or specific lighthouses. Here again I think this idea sparks interest and future sales. Without interest and excitement of any kind there is no secondary market anyway.

Paul for the most part we are in agreement, we just differ on the definition of what a remake is and how it might affect the Secondary Market. I don't think that Hatteras on the Move ever had an impact on the Original Mold Hatteras nor did the Second Mold Hatteras have an impact on the Original Mold Hatteras.

Over time and randomly released I don't see this kind of idea being such a bad thing. It's been years since the first Portland Head.

imho

Rich the problem with this stand is that for Harbour Lights to exist they need lots of people buying lots of lighthouses. Imho there is a small number of true HL LE collectors. By definition I mean those that are committed to continue to purchase all the LE's. After these committed collectors have purchased theres what happens to the other let's say 4,500 or more lighthouses. Is my Aunt Mable living in Portland Maine or Boston who is collecting New England Lighthouses compelled by Harbour Lights mastery of detail to go and purchase perhaps the newest lighthouse from Texas or the West Coast......probably not. Just because they're pretty doesn't mean there is a market. Hince why we have retirements now before they get to the end of the edition size.

imho

We have to realize that here on the forums we are a minority in the Harbour Lights market. There are 1132 registered members which at best if every one purchased a new LE of a 5500 edition size represents 20% of the market. We all know that out of the 1132 there are at best about 25% of that number who post on the forums. And out of that 250 - 275 how many actually buy all of the new pieces. Maybe 25 - 30. It could be more but probably not that many more. Even if all 275 bought all of the new LE's, that is still only 5% of the market. There is another 95 % out there somewhere and they are the ones who keep Harbour Lights afloat.