I'm opening this thread specifically for discussion about GLOWs. Whether you love 'em or hate 'em or just wish we'd shut up about 'em - here's a place to yak about 'em.

To kick things off I'll make the usual controversial remarks.

1. Because they don't have a limited edition size, GLOWs are not collectibles. They're giftware - they won't appreciate in value and they don't retire. (HL may stopping making a model because it's not selling, but technically this isn't 'retirement').

2. With the advent of GLOWs, the rate of appreciation of the Limited Edition pieces has slowed. Note I didn't say GLOWs caused this, but I don't think the timing is merely coincidental.

3. GLOWs have a detrimental impact on the rate of LE retirement. Every dollar spent on a GLOW is a dollar not spent on an LE.

4. GLOWs are a distraction to the new collector. The early GLOWs were a bit smaller and not (imo) quite as nice as their contemporary LE models. Nowadays a case can be made that some GLOWs are actually nicer than the LE of the same name.

5. Some folks suggest the purchase of GLOWs aids lighthouse societies or lighthouse preservation. Instead, why not donate the full amount of money directly to the lighthouse society - it yields them a much bigger benefit? The fact that a lighthouse's gift shop doesn't have a model of the light has never stopped me from making a contribution.

6. GLOWs are cute but boring. If HL never made an LE and only offered GLOWs, you wouldn't be reading this now. ;->

7. Its not unusual to hear remarks such as: 'I don't collect as an investment therefore even if GLOWs hurt the LE marketplace this doesn't bother me'. I'd be very surprised to learn that anyone started collecting lighthouse models as an investment. But one day when you turn around and your collection is worth several thousand dollars it makes sense to me not to ignore factors that cause it to increase or decrease in value.

Ok - there's a few reasons why GLOWs are not a happiness. I think I understand the case for them, but we'll let someone else state it. Fwiw, I think the GLOW pieces are very well done by HL, but I don't own any.

Keep in mind all of this is soley in the interest of talking about our HL hobby, not a judgement on individual purchasing proclivities.

Our paths are plowed at the Fog Signal Building,
__
/im

The release of the Tybee, Bolivar and Alcatraz GLOWs really ruffled my feathers about GLOWs. IMHO Harbour Lights introduced a much better version of these 3 lighthouses as a GLOW. The GLOWs should never be in competition with the Limited Editions for shelf space. I understand Harbour Lights wants to produce the best product they can and I applaud them for it. I just wish that the size of the GLOWs could be smaller and have less extra details (trees, buildings, etc...) as the LE. The Limited Edition should always be the Crown Jewel of the collection and should not have to compete with the GLOW.

imho
SeAnDiEgO

The early GLOWs...Portland Head, Boston, etc. were just the right size...they provided nice detail but were clearly a little brother/sister to the real thing.

St. Augustine is another good example. No house...just the tower for people who have to have one.

Lately, the GLOWS are practically the same size as the LEs...look at Montauk, Bolivar, Tybee, even Thomas Point. It's ridiculous.

The GLOWS chew up shelf space. They blur the distinction between themselves and the limited editions. I think it was a nice idea to start with...but I believe they are now cannibalizing the LEs.

Harbour Lights started out with the idea of being a limited edition collectible company. They are no longer. Now, IMHO, they've turned greedy. And I believe, in the long run (and I think we saw it in 1998) it's going to hurt them.

At this time I am the owner of one GLOW, Cape Hatteras. Will I purchase others? Yes, I will, especially when I'm all caught up on the LEs and still have a few expendable bucks in my wallet.

I was showing my one and only GLOW to my parish priest who inquired if the term "GLOW" stood for "God Loves Our Work". I told him it might have a couple of different meanings such as "Great Looking Objects Will" as compared to poorly made objects won't...sell that is.

Ever wonder how many "Joe or Josephine" average citizens have purchased some of the more valuable LEs not knowing what they are worth today? Ever wonder how many serious collectors of HLs are actually out there? The reunion proved there are at least 700 if you count spouses and/or girlfriends or boyfriends. How many serious collectors utilize this Forum? JC (Not the guy up above...the one from Arizona) has indicated over 2500 people are registered for this Forum (eat your heart out, Nico). Does that mean all these registrants are serious collectors? Probably not.

From my very limited 16 month experience of collecting and communicating within the "HL Circle of Friends" my estimate of collectors who have to have them all (minus a few of the most expensive pieces) would probably be around 1000-1500 collectors. Then I would estimate there are another 2000 serious collectors who are content to buy the HLs from a particular region or two without any desire to "get them all." Then comes the tourists and other local lighthouse lovers who buy an HL because it's in their area or they visited that LH during their vacation.

Which brings us back to GLOWs. Unless your a serious collector, if given the choice of spending $50 or so as compared to $75-$100 for this well-done lighthouse replica you will purchase the GLOW. You'll take a look at the GLOW and say, "It looks every bit as good if not better than the limited edition for a far more reasonable price."

I think that's great! Buy a GLOW and support the preservation of that LH. Leave the LEs for those who are serious about collecting. If enough LEs sit on the shelves for long periods of time, maybe Y&A will reduce the edition sizes. This in turn will fire up the interest of the serious collectors fearing they may not get one if they don't make their purchase early after the release. The 6500 edition size of Hillsboro FL has already sent many collectors to their dealers to reserve their piece.

I say HL should make all the GLOWS they want. If people didn't buy "giftware" there wouldn't be any giftware shops. Satisfy the demands of the guys in the Hawaiian shirts drinking the Pina Coladas while wearing sandals with black socks. I'll be the guy wearing the Raybans, the Polo shirt, the Dockers, and the Sperry Topsiders. If you look closely you'll see my pin that reads, "I'm not a tourist, I would like the LE, please."

That's the word from the East Coast!

Don't forget about all the collectors who don't have computers Bob. I think the Magic number is the at the 6,500 mark currently. Point fermin and Stonington both had edition sizes in the mid 6,000's I don't know the edition size of Port Sanilac but I would say it's probably close to that and finally the number of pieces of the Society Rose Island ordered is in that same 6,000 nieghborhood. I don't think HL would risk losing any collectors by cutting Hillsboro too short.

Thats the word from the midwest coast (AKA the arctic tundra currently),
Mark

Neither do rocks, seashells, nor a number of other things people collect avidly. They may not be "collectibles" by your definition, but that does not mean that people will not or do not collect them. I think they fill a niche for a collector of modest means who could not afford to buy a retired limited edition of the same light. Some people would rather have a nice Hatteras GLOW (for example) for sentimental or aesthetic reasons than any other light, LE or not. Many people collect for the enjoyment of it -- enjoyment brought about by aesthetics, nostolgia, or the love of history alone, and don't give a hoot about appreciation. Many people could better justify the purchase of 10 or 12 different GLOWS rather than one Hatteras LE to satisfy their particular interest in lighthouses. And they do make nice gifts.



A rather strong assertion without data, I'd say.



True. But to think that the converse is true, that every dollar spent on a GLOW would have been spent on an LE is absurd. If that dollar was not spent on a GLOW, it might have gone into Spoontiques, or pizza and beer. No other purchase options aid the viability of Younger & Associates nor contribute to the preservation of real lighthouses, both of which are in the interest of most collectors, I think.



Quite right. All collectors and lighthouse buffs should do this. But the GLOWS are an additional source of funding, from people who may not otherwise open their wallets for such a cause. Does anyone think for a minute that the funds raised by the sale of GLOWS for lighthouse preservation would have been exceeded had GLOWS not existed?



We'd sure miss your eloquent posts, Tim! :-D

This is a value judgement, not a reason why GLOWs should not exist. Other people buy lighthouses for reasons other than the thrill of the chase and the potential for appreciation. Those others may or may not be numerous enough to sustain HL as a going concern, but they sure help. Cute sells. IMNSHO, both camps (and those in between) can peacefully coexist. As I said before, I don't believe that the dollars chasing LEs and those purchasing GLOWs are the same dollars. If one lusts after a Hatteras mold 1, a GLOW will not suffice. If one wants an aesthetically pleasing, reasonably accurate model of Hatteras, a mold 1 would never do. Many people can wander into a store, see a GLOW, and buy it on impulse for it's sheer beauty or as a momento. That doesn't happen often with the retired of the original 17 or other, shall we say "fully valued" pieces. Those must be planned for by most people. And those planning such a purchase will not spend $55 of their dedicated Portland Head money on a GLOW.

HOWEVER... An impulse GLOW buyer may eventually become an avid LE collector who does buy that Portland Head on the secondary market. This potential growth of the collector base in the long run may be the single most compelling reason for GLOWS to exist.

-Art

Harbour Lights spent its first 5 years as a limited edition collectible company---that was their mission. When you enter the collectible industry you'd better keep yourself focused on that word: COLLECTIBLE.

Today Harbour Lights has become a collectible/giftware company. I think that's dangerous. They're compromising their integrity with their core audience: limited edition buyers. They're also playing around with the secondary market---a VERY powerful force in the health of a collectibles company---by making these cheap alternatives available.

Yes, yes, yes, I love lighthouses and that's what attracted me to HL in the first place. But it's a shame to see them getting so unfocused. IMHO they should create a completely separate line for the GLOWS. New name, new displays, separate catalog...even different looking sculptures from the original. That way the limited edition line remains pure, while still having the GLOWs available. Just a thought.

Let me start by saying that I own 2 GLOWS and that the chance of my purchasing more can never be ruled out of the question. One was given to me as a gift, the other, Tybee, I purchased because the tower is painted in a different scheme than its limited brother.

I have no beef with the concept of GLOWS. I think it is great that there is a somewhat less expensive option for people who want to take that route for whatever reason. I say somewhat less expensive because the price of the OE's seems to be creeping up just like the size. Not too many sub $50 GLOWS out there anymore, but back to the size. That's where my problem with the OE's lie.
This has been debated before, almost to death, but there needs to be more distinction between the OE's & the LE's. I feel that the GLOWS should be distinctly smaller in scale than the LE's. Keep then as detailed as you like. No need IMO to remove outbuildings, trees, ect. to set the distinction, but the size needs to be smaller. I am in agreement with Bill Harnsberger. The size of the early GLOWS, Portland Head, Boston, ect..., was right on. You were able to tell the difference just by looking at the size, but now, not so much.

There are many good points brought up, both pro and con for the GLOWS. There is a place I feel for both LE's and OE's, but there has to be a division between the two. IMHO, size matters.
On a lighter note, I applaud Younger & Assoc. for donating some of the proceeds from the OE's to lighthouse preservation. That alone is a worthwhile reason to keep the GLOWS. It may not be a lot of money, but it is more than these groups would receive otherwise. It is a great way to give back to what is really important, because if there were no lighthouses, there would be no Harbour Lights.

FWIW,
-Todd (if you exposed a LE to radation, would it GLOW?)

I'll toss out the same idea I offered in one of the respectable forums. LOL. Replace the GLOW line with a line of Limited Edition Mini's - about the scale of the Rose Island or NPL minis. Variable edition size for each model based on its popularity. Priced at at $20-$35 each. Some percentage of sales sufficient to keep people warm and fuzzy going to lighthouse societies, preservation, etc.

Here's another idea to replace GLOWs. 'Harbour Tykes' - to be sold exclusively at lighthouse gift shops and designed especially for children. A small *unpainted* model of the light complete with a set of water-color paints and a 6th grade story book on the lighthouse and local history. Cute sells, right Art? And offer a version with oil paints as a Big Glow Peoples paint-by-number edition (sold under the banner "Restore Your Own Light!"). Naturally a donation of proceeds to lighthouse society, yadda yadda etc etc.

Since HL feels compelled to do something else besides make collectibles for a living, I suggest they get a little more creative, keep the glow people happy and the cash flowing, but, as BH suggests, don't lose their raison d'etre by cannibalizing the product line what got them there. There are other ways to accomplish what HL intended with GLOWs. (This was rationale behind Sean's suggestion for re-issues as discussed in the 'nother Coquille? thread.)

Rgds,
__
/im

"Nothing Appreciates Like a GLOW" ;->

Hi Todd,

I dont think a topic can ever be debated to death. Collectibles are always changing and new collectors are always entering the debate. I like to see the opinions of those that just started more than those that have been collecting. I some respects I think the new collector brings new buying dollars to the market more than the older collector. The collector thats been around has probably put some restraint on their buying habits unless they have committed to buying the entire collection. The new collector can easily get caught in the whirlwind frenzy of collecting and give Harbour Lights allot of new $$$$$.

SeAnDiEgO

I agree Sean, debate is good. That's why I said almost to death. "She's still kicking. Only one foot's in the grave...."
LOL

Tim, I had forgot about your suggestion of mini's selling at $25-$30 when I was typing my post, but I like the idea.

-Todd

[This message has been edited by Todd Shorkey (edited 01-06-99).]

GLOWS were very confusing initially to a new collector especially the numbering in the 400's with several OEs to LEs.

They should be an easier to distinguish by size.

Although GLOWs are OE - What is the criteria for the size of series A,B,C,etc?

The detail on some is off the wall. And distinguishing some when not side by side is
sometimes crazy.

I don't ever think I'll own a Cape Hatteras OE so I was happy to be able to get a GLOW.
Montauk is very special to me and my family so I was happy to be able to share that with GLOWs. I got a GLOW from my staff for Christmas which is quite nice.

My current evaluation is I'll only get them when I can't get an OE at a reasonable price.

Semantic fru fru only clouds the issue.




Allow me a moment of levity, and let's examine this metaphysical argument.

From the impulse purchase example this conclusion does not follow because one of the following four different conclusions do:

A) the potential for growth of the collector base is only proven when someone actually purchases a collectible, a Limited Edition.

B) The growth potential of the collector base is changed not a whit when someone purchases a GLOW. It remains exactly the same as before the purchase because the buyer has no more shown a liklihood to purchase a collectible than a convertible.

C) the growth potential of the collector base is actually diminished by the purchase of a GLOW, because it is an opportunity denied.

D) the potential for anything can only increase when that which it is the potential for never happens. Otherwise it is no longer potential but actual.

Reductio ad absurdum.

Rgds,
__
/im [The sophist awoke before dawn. He put his boots on...]

..give a cowboy enough rope and...

...a few tense moments passed but the oxes and bows failed to materialize. "Y'all just get back now to polishin brass" drawled the Keeper. "Show's over".

That is true at the exact moment of purchase, but when the potential collector gets the piece home and looks at it daily, he may be more likely to buy a second, and eventually learn more about the line and decide to purchase LEs too, then secondary pieces, then... Coquille? That is, of course, unless the GLOWs are made so small and ugly that they go unnoticed on a daily basis. ;-}



...and the third possibility is that it is increased. Your arguments are no more based upon fact than are mine, and no more likely as outcomes. Give this last possibility its due.



Then why call this an issue with collectibles? Why then don't we call it speculating that little lumps of clay will increase in value, validating our prowess and making us feel like major studs, except to the degree that these insidious little GLOW monsters under the bed increase our paranoia and offset our exhilaration? :-)We'd obviously need an acronym to do this.

Fru fruing at the FSB as the fog begins to lift,

-Ivan Boesky [I can see clearly now the rain has gone. I can see all obstacles in my way...]

Huh?...

Dare we take a peek into the crystal ventilator ball? Does any HL soothsayer know exactly what will happen in the future?

Try this scenario: " After a lengthy meeting and much deliberation, Younger & Associates has officially announced that by popular demand they will no longer make open edition lighthouse replicas." HL Collectors have pressured Harbour Lights into discontinuing their popular "giftware" line.

Think about that for a moment. If the OEs are discontinued, doesn't that make them a collectible/limited edition? They have a serial/editon # on them. Does anybody know exactly how many OEs have been sold? Could some models be under the current 10,000 pieces for LEs?

Would you actively go out and buy them then? Inquiring minds want to know...

Glows are what brought us to our addiction, so maybe they are bad. We live in Maine near Portland. When looking for lighthouses that were local our choices in mid '97 were OE Portland Head, OE Cape Neddick, or LE Matinicus. The last one we had never heard of except for the island not the light. We were drawn to Cape Neddick. We didn't pruchase it.
We decided to look at other lines and dealers. In Freeport we found Pemaquid LE and Whaleback LE and bought these. In another Portland dealer we found Portland Breakwater then had to find where it was. Not famous here with younger people. Then I did go back and buy OE Cape Neddick because my wife still liked it the best.
We have no Portland Head because thought it was too small (the OE). No LE due to price. Wife says son's college comes first. Maybe he'll buy us one someday with his future earnings. Won't hold my breath. He bought us Cape Elizabeth for Christmas not bad for a 15 year old.
The glows bring in new collectors if local lights are not there to buy. We now have about 70. Not a huge collection but a good start. Only 2 glows. Wife had to have Holland. It was the OE or Cheryl Spencer Collins LE. She is our local artist. We decided to stay with Harbour Lights. Maybe in retirement we'll have the HL LE.
Enough rambling just putting in our two cents worth. Art H.

I'd give everyone my opinion on GLOWs, but it changes by the day. As I read these posts (and earlier related threads), my head goes back and forth like a person watching a tennis match. We go from aesthetic value judgments and comparisons, to sales implications, to philosophical and logical reasoning skills. Is it possible to agree with opposite positions at the same time? GLOWs - I both like em and loathe em.

Good point, Rich. When I saw the GLOW of Bolivar, for example, I loved it...I wish they could have done it like that the first time! Ultimately, though, I wish HL had created an entirely separate line of smaller lighthouses that didn't interfere so much with the limited edition ones.

This discussion, I think, boils down to the fact that there are various groups of people with varying reasons for buying Harbour Lights. You can't please all the people all the time, thus we have these interesting debates.

Unfortunately, I think that BECAUSE HL is trying to please all the people, they might be digging themselves into a nasty hole. If they had stayed focused on what made them famous in the first place---limited edition collectibles---I think we would have seen brisker sales in 1998 and, consequently, more retirements. That would only fuel the demand further. To me, creating demand is much more important (and difficult) than creating supply. As it is, the shelves are bursting with pieces (and just how are dealers going to fit...let's see...at least SIX more pieces on their shelves in the next 3 months, plus who knows how many more over the coming year?).

If I were an overpaid, underworked consultant, I'd tell HL to separate the GLOWS from the limited editions...or issue a moratorium on them for the next couple of years. Focus on maybe 6-10 limited edition pieces per year in 1999 and 2000. Sculpt the most popular lighthouses that haven't been done yet (Statue of Liberty, anyone?) and get that demand cookin' again. The collectibles arena is just too fragile and fickle to get greedy.

Focus on what got you to the top...then hammer away at that strength.

I can only express my uneducated opinion on this subject because I'm such a newbie. I have actually only been to one retailer to see the lighthouses. They had several retired pieces, other LEs not yet retired, as well as GLOWS and the other small stuff. Don't want that small stuff, want to be able to SEE what my money buys. I pawed over all the lights for about an hour (must have driven them crazy) and wound up buying the GLOW Cape Nedick because I liked it best. It wasn't the price really but the quality for the money seemed good. Mind you, this was in advance of me finding this forum and reading all your opions. Think I will PROBABLY buy GLOWS in the hard to find lights and LE's of the newer ones, as they apeal to me. Not sure you can get my drift but maybe I don't either! I sort of get the impression that HL has improved the quality of their product over the years regardless of the edition. Am I right? I want something that looks good and if it increases in value, that's a bonus.

Mombo, IMHO you're right on that point. They've come light years.

------------------
Keepin' the flame

Here's some more food for thought.

>>GLOWs have a detrimental impact on the rate of LE retirement. Every dollar spent on a GLOW is a dollar not spent on an LE. <<

Every dollar spent on a GLOW is a dollar not spent on a Cheryl Spencer Collin, Lefton or any other brand that may currently make a Portland Head or any other retired LE Harbour Lights has put out in the past. Is this the lesser of evils ? Offending a percentage of hard core collectors by producing GLOW's or the potential loss of a sale and customer to another brand of lighthouse's when that customer gets to the store and can't find a certain (fill in your favorite high priced/only available on the secondary market piece) lighthouse that was never made as a GLOW, so he turns to leave the store and see's brand X has just the lighthouse that has so much sentimental value to the new collector. Now the dollar that was not spent on a LE wasn't even spent on a OE nor was any other money this collector had since he now collects brand X.


..........Later that day the angel takes Bill Younger to a signing event where Bill looks in the window and see's Timmy, Artie and Little Sean all having their pieces signed by Cheryl Spencer Collin, Bill burst's thru the doors and says to the three "What are you doing collecting her lighthouses ?" Not to be bothered during the little time they have with Cheryl and her stories, they grab Bill to throw him out as he's yelling "Sean,Tim, Art Don't ya know me ? Huh ? Don't ya know me ?" The angel helps Bill to his feet and says " you never made GLOW's Bill and Cheryl became the Queen of limited edition lighthouses and "Giftware" lighthouses. The angel shows Bill how his wife and daughters are making a small living selling collectible cottages roadside in the desert and how his brother Bob became the lumber king of the western U.S. and is a world record holder for having stalked and killed the largest beaver in North America ( all though it was at a zoo, but none the less a record )
Later as the angel returns Bill to his rented car and he see's the damage to the car. Bill says " I didn't take the LDW, now this is going to cost a fortune to fix, I may have to sell my # 4 Coquille to pay for this"

The Credits:

Bill Younger as himself
Timmy - portrayed by Tim
Artie - portrayed by Rod
Little Sean - portrayed by Paul
The Angel - portrayed by John
Cheryl - portrayed by Lorraine
And a cameo appearence by Fred as the bridge tender

This movie was modified from it's original format to fit your moniter.


And now you know the rest of the story !


[This message has been edited by Mark Wagner (edited 01-09-99).]

That does it! I can't take it any longer! There are no LEs left for me to buy at the retail stores, and none of the 1999 LEs are available yet. There is only one thing to do...(short pause if you didn't guess that already)...................I'm headin' out to my HL Dealer and I'm going to buy one of every GLOW he has in stock!

The time is at hand...(another one of those pauses).......its got to be done! " He who hesitates is lost."

Will Bob corner the market on GLOWs in the Northeast? Tune in later to find out if Bob has surpassed the 160 HL mark in his collection!

Okay, I'm back from my HL GLOW Safari. I must add until today I only had one GLOW (CH). I kept the vow I made in the message immediately above this one. Now I own a few more.

The results of my GLOW Safari is as follows:

Old Point Loma #551 (Note: no Letter)
St. Simons Island #A 565
Old Mackinac #A 570
Holland Harbor #A 570
Hilton Head #A 546
Bolivar Point #A 570
Thomas Pt. Signature S. #A 570
Tybee Island Signature S. #A 525

Needless to say my expendable cash supply is now down to zero. It's only money and I'm still smiling! Stay tuned for my next GLOW Safari after the next payday.

As far as G.L.O.W.'s are concerned at this point I am neither Pro nor Con. Since I still concider myself new to the collecting of HL my opinion is still out on GLOW's. But I do find their presence....distracting, and most especially of late. When I go into some of the local dealers who carry the HL line intending to add to my LE collection I am quite distracted as well as concerned that the OE is more asthetically pleasing to the eye than some of the LE. Since I do not have a LE Hilton Head or Mackinac Point ( to name a few OE) I am quite tempted to spend on OE what I planned to spend on LE.
I think GLOW's have their time and place. But, as a new collector of the LE HL I am just a bit concerned about the future marketability if GLOW's continue to outshine the LE's!!
Thanks for Listening!
Kat Waterson {=^+^=}

Tim's post was just to cute. I had to repost it.

One, Two, Three
What're We Fightin' For?
Don't Ask Me I Never Known
Next stop is El Cajon.

And its Five, Six, Seven
Open up the GiftWare Case
Tried Persuading, but Bill sez 'No'
Whoopee We're All Gonna GLOW!

SeAnDiEgO
Got the Beaver loaded for the trip, I don't know what he's going to do when we get to El Cajon and he finds out about Bob. Bob always made the best appetizers.

I can see it now:

The Fog Signal Players present: "Little Plaid Beaverhood"

(roll clip)

Bob: "My thats a big flat tail you've got"

Beaver: "All the better to smack you with.

I thought I'd bring the GLOW thread back to date with an inquiry. How come I never see replacement GLOWs on dealers shelves? I visit numerous HL dealers and none of them have Portland Head, Cape Neddick, Barnegat, Southeast Block, or Boston Harbor GLOWs on display. It seems whatever they originally got were sold and they never ordered any more from HL. Has anyone else found this to be true in their area of the country?

Good observation Bob! I've dredged through the memory banks and I can say that I've seen the same thing. Very rare to find any of the earlier GLOWS. What we don't know is how the re-molding of some of these affected the supply. I think Portland Head and SE Block joined Barnegat in being pulled and re-done.

Even at that, I don't think I've ever visited a dealer and seen all, or all but a few, of the available GLOWs on display.

Rick

Hmmmm... Hard to find GLOWs. What will HL think of next. Maybe they're just selling out as fast as they're made. Hey Bob - put one on Ebay and see what you can get for it! That'll tell us where the market's at.

Rgds,
__
/im (Scandal! GLOW shipments revealed by UPS drivers)

The GLOWs which were to be resculpted included:

Barnegat NJ
Southeast Block Island RI
Sandy Point NJ
Portland Head ME

Of these, only the Barnegat has made it to these shores so far. So it may be you're not seeing any because there aren't any. I'll ask the HL Warehouse Trolls and see if I can find any info.

John

Yo Sean, there's your answer! Next time HL decides to resculpt some GLOWs, ask 'em to put a little white stuff on Portland Head.

As for myself I was gonna ask for 'Springtime at Minot's Ledge' - but figured thats just another green water variation.
__
/im ("Hey 'lizabeth is that really snow or just dried Cool Whip?")

No Snow on GLOWs. Re-molds would compete with the original molds and devistate their value on the secondary market.



SeAnDiEgO
Cool Whip?? We won't go there.

Hey Tim, I won't sell any of my GLOWS. I'll sell my tan tower Beavertail though. Bought the grey one and like it better. Other than Beavertail, I don't have any duplicates, and I'm not interested in parting with any of my pieces at this time in my life.

I will tell you that if I see a Portland Head, Cape Neddick, Boston Harbor, or Southeast Block GLOW in an area store, I would consider making the purchase.

Carrying the GLOW thing a little further, if you told me I had to donate one HL from my collection to charity for a worthwhile purpose and I had the choice of giving up my Montauk GLOW or one of the **not-so-popular LEs from the 5500 series, I would keep the Montauk. Montauk is much more pleasing to the eye than some of the alleged "oldies but goodies."

(** indicates those pieces from the 5500 series that are basically worth what they were many years ago and still can be found at retail on area shelves.)

That's the word from the East Coast where the temperature is now 34 degrees and the sun was shining all day.

General Motors created alot of problems for themselves, financially, in the 1980s due an alarming similarity in appearance between their different lines. You could hardly tell the difference between a Cadillac, a Buick, and a Chevrolet. People wouldn't spend $20,000 on a Cadillac when they could have the same look and quality in a $17,000 Buick. Besides they all looked just like the $12,000 Chevrolet.IMHO, HL is doing the same thing with the GLOWS. If it weren't for the "Passionate Collectors" why would anyone spend the extra money when nobody else will know the difference? Is it possible that HL was trying to capture a new market and in doing so, only divided the original one?
In all honesty Ive only been collecting for a few months, since November of 98. I've accumulated 16 pieces, all are LE but 1,CH. I love lighthouses, Harbour Lights has the BEST of any that I've seen, so that's what I collect. It wouldn't matter to me if they only had GLOWS. I'm not interested in variations, just one of each.I would like to, one day, Have one of every lighthouse HL has made. As I've said before when that day comes, who knows, maybe I'll start a collection of GLOWS. But I do believe that the Glows should be obviously inferior to the LE's. If for no other reason than to justify the cost difference.I sometimes wonder why I don't just collect the GLOWS, as I have no intention on ever selling my collection, the "investment" is of no benefit to me. They are all comparable in size and quality, and the GLOWs are considerably less expensive, and a whole lot easier to find, and just as nice to look at. There is one exception that I know of, Cape Canaveral, this should set the precedence, the relation between the LE and the GLOW is as, I believe, it should be between all LE's and GLOWs.


Only my opinion, take it or leave it. However I do feel a whole lot better, since I've come to these conclusions, about my own collection.

[This message has been edited by LuvLights2 (edited 01-29-99).]

Amen. I both love and hate the Bolivar GLOW. It is a beautiful piece but from a distance an inexperienced observer would not be able to tell which is which. New London Ledge is much better. The GLOW is more detailed, reflecting the technology and experience available when it was produced, but it is SMALLER. I have the LE, GLOW, ornament and spyglass together as one display and they are each obviously diffferent from the others. I think the GLOWs should be 1/2 to 3/4 the size of the LE but larger than the minis of RIRI and NPL. Each part of the HL line (LE,GLOW,mini,ornament,spyglass,thumbnail) should be obviously unique in size. Granted that there are some small LEs and some large GLOWs but when an LE and GLOW of the same light are placed side by side they can compliment each other rather than competeing.

As far as the quality of the GLOWs, I think it should be good as is possible. I have a problem with people saying that
1. The GLOWs are giftware
2. I don't collect GLOWs
3. I dont collect HLs for investment purposes
4. BUT the GLOWs cut into the future value of my collection.
I am going to collect as many LEs as I can, but if there is a GLOW or any other company's lighthouse that I like, I will buy it, display it and enjoy it.

Also consider that Harbour Lights is not the only company producing lighthouses. They have to compete with others so their product has to be better. I have seen small replicas of lighthouses that approach the quality of HL but sell for $10.

End of ranting

>>I have seen small replicas of lighthouses that approach the quality of HL but sell for $10<<

I hate to be a doubting Thomas. I venture to guess that there are no real competitors even at $40. Harbour Lights does more than produce a lighthouse. You couldnt get the detail, quality of packaging, size, historical research, Collectors Reunion, Personal Signings, Harbour Lights FANTASTIC Customer Service and the BEST !@#$%^ WEB Site on the Internet for a lighthouse selling at less. Quality to me equals all of the items I just mentioned. Do you think any of Harbour Lights Competitors really compete? IMHO I think Not!!! I admit I may be a littled biased, but then again I'm a Wacko to the core.

I am curious. How many other Limited Edition Lighthouse Manufacturers offer a Limited Edition Version and an Open Edition Version of the same lighthouse? Does CSC? Lefton? Scassi? Danbury Mint? Fraiser? others?

SeAnDiEgO
Pres. of the Stubborn Lumberjacks Society

>> How many other Limited Edition Lighthouse Manufacturers offer a Limited Edition Version and an Open Edition Version of the same lighthouse?<<

Since the start of this thread I've been expecting someone (yes particular names do come to mind, but you weren't one of 'em ;-> ) to try out the argument implied here. Namely, 'Harbour Lights only became really successful when they started making giftware, er, GLOWS'. Then moving from this to: 'a collection is only valuable as long as HL continues to manufacture the models - if HL is not successful your collection will ultimately lose whatever value it has (dollarwise)'. Generalizing they're lead to: 'whatever leads to HL's success will lead a collection to appreciate'. Then the big leap to: "GLOWs cause LE's to maintain and rise in value!" Quod erat demostrandum. :-)

Anybody care to try this rap on for size?

Rgds,
Jazzy Fogmeister Tim

Not me, Jazzy...

But what other manufacturers make limited editions. Period.

Cheryl Spencer Collins does. No OEs, but who knows what the real limit is. She started off as LEs with an edition size of 2,000. I believe in this phase 1, only Cape Hatteras actually reached this sales level and retired. CSC signed up with Dave Grossman to handle the marketing and production (in China). But they made a decision to have an edition size of 5,000 -- and to restart numbering back at 1.

Now I believe the limit is 2,400. And if you buy one of the first 500 or so, it comes with a gold seal!!!!

I'm not putting down CSC. I like her work; it comes closer to HL's quality than the other competitors (IMHO).

Guess the gist of my comment here is limited editions that ACTUALLY SELL OUT make the line. Until then, it doesn't matter that it's an LE.

Fraser's International Collection are nice, but no US lights (yet?)

The only other company that I can think of that makes both LE and OEs is Lefton. Most everything is an OE, few a year are exclusively LE. They do make various sizes of different lighthouses. Lit and unlit. Even teapots shaped like lighthouses.

What other competitors are there?


Cheryl Spencer Collins/Dave Grossman
John Lefton
Fraser
'Ultimate' - something LH Depot carried in the past but is not in the newest catalog.
Scaasi (or is it Scassi?) (not even close to HL's league)

And two companies who make stained glass ones, but I can't recall the names.

S

Hey just for kicks. Compare the Key West and Assateague LEs and GLOWs. Now be objective. Which one do you like more?

Well, we can't actually touch the Assateague and Key West, but yes, they seem to be continuing the idea that when you make a lighthouse - any lighthouse - you use the state of the art that exists at the time you are making it, both design-wise and production-wise.

We wouldn't expect any less from Harbour Lights.

Tybee Island (the limited) represented the 'state of the art' in 1993. The GLOW version shows what can be done in 1998. Tybee has a special place for Harbour Lights. The company made a substantial donation to get the restoration project going and used their collector connections to bring in even more money. So with the restoration done (dedication and relighting is late this month), the GLOW shows the tower painted in the daymark of a previous era and many outbuildings and trees that are part of the restoration.

But with only 5,500 of the original Tybee GA, whether it has trees or buildings or not, it's still desireable for those who are 'collectors' (trying to avoid the WACKO term here). The ones who don't care are the tourists and locals. (Hmmm. Maybe go down to Savannah with a case of GLOW Tybees and go door to door offering to trade even up if they have the 'old version'???)

Rhett

There's no need to defend Harbour Lights. I don't believe that anyone who has compared them to any other miniature lighthouse producer, or any other collectable can argue (that's probably a little biased). They are the only "competitor on the "Lead Lap" (big race week coming up). I don't see the need to ever buy anything but a Harbour Lights.
However I am a business man and I understand that Harbour Lights makes no money on the secondary market, in fact they compete with it. The GLOWs are actually in competition with the retired pieces on the secondary market. Therfore, unbiasedly I see there side as well, but I am a collector (I think, 16 pieces in 3 months, or is that WACKO?), and as a "collector" I am not interested in the GLOWs and don't think it's right for the GLOWs to share, much less steal the spotlight from what most of the "collectors" want. I don't believe that HL should reduce the quality of any piece that they make. The quality is what attracted me to HL. I just think that the GLOWs should be lacking SOMETHING, be it a building or a tree. The LE should say "HEY, I'M SOMETHING SPECIAL" not "HEY ONE DAY SOMETHING BETTER WILL COME ALONG". It's just that I have a long way to go with my collection, and it's hard to spend $300.00 or $400.00 on a lighthouse when there's one on the shelf for $50.00 thats more attractive.
I will close in saying that I DO believe that Harbour Lights is by far the best producer of miniature lighthouses on the market today, and it will be hard to take that away for a long time to come. I am loyal to Harbour Lights, and I am not interested in anything other than Harbour Lights. I sure as heck wouldn't trade MY harbour Lights for ANY bean bag.

Well Said!!!! I'm with you.

imho, from the Beaver's Cage,

SeAnDiEgO
Is there a Beaver bean bag, the Beav needs a chew toy.

[This message has been edited by BuyGlass (edited 02-06-99).]

I was out visiting dealers today looking to see what retired HLs might still be in stock. The only retired pieces I saw were North Head and Cape Blanco.

I also purchased two more GLOWs today: Sandy Hook #A2877 and another Montauk GLOW #A2888. This is the third Montauk GLOW I have purchased. A good friend wanted two Montauks to give as gifts and I was only able to buy one. There appears to be a Montauk GLOW shortage in this area. I had purchased two others a couple of weeks ago from a dealer who got six and I bought the last two he had.

As I was shopping I made note of the fact that there were very few GLOWs available and they all started with the letter "A", first year of issue. I really wonder if dealers replenish their stock of GLOWs over and above what they are originally shipped. Which brings up the point, "How many GLOWs of each light were made to date?"

That's the question from the East Coast where it's 30 degrees and suddenly snowing very hard.

Howdy y'all

Boy did I get the pot stired up! To clarify, I'm a board cerified HL wacko. If Harbour Lights makes it, I want it or have it.
However, I enjoy displaying different size versions of the same lighthouse together. My wife and I have found two companies who produce very good giftware lighthouses for about $10 a pop. The lines do not seem to have consistant quality though. Some I've seen and bought are good, some are junk (IMHO). We found these in an antique store and have not seen them anywhere else. We got a St. Georges Reef from Wangs International that looks nice next to the HL piece. The colors look identical. Since they were both made in China ..... Another is a Jupiter from Lighthouses of North America. Each is about 4" tall. They aren't HL but to the novice they might be good enough and thus buy them rather than a more expensive GLOW. My point was that GLOWS have to be obviously worth more to the novice if they are going to compete with lower cost lines.

Sitting here in my shirtsleves in Alabama

>>...the Beav needs a chew toy<<

How 'bout Pinnochio?

Rgds,
__
/im (no stars out tonight - I think I can just make out Bob's house on the horizon. ;-> )

I think that the GLOW has a place in the HL lineup, but they shouldn't be the primary stars. Some of the pieces such as the signature pieces, are every bit as well done as the original LE's and then some. This has cut into the LE market value and has also taken away some of the sales and collector base. I do have a model of each of the GLOW's, but I display them only at the office and save the "real" pieces for display and enjoyment at home.

I might offer this as a possible solution to what to do with the GLOW line. Release a limited number, like has been done with the signature series, to the general retailer for them to have available to their regular customers. After the initial release limit the area of sales to the general vicinity of the lighthouse. This way tourist looking for mementos have a quality option, regular customers have an option, sellers don't have to carry stock that takes away space from the other LE's. If a person really needed one after their local dealer was out they would have to order it from a dealer in the vicinity of the lighthouse, or get it from the secondary market. Thus the dealers win (only LE's & local HL's), the tourist wins (a quality piece available), Y&A wins (has a open production product that they can use to offset other producers with), and the collectors win by having a somewhat limited production with a secondary market option.

>>the collectors win by having a somewhat limited production with a secondary market option.<<

I'm not clear, Dick, if the above refers to GLOWs or LEs - I think its the 'somewhat' thats confusing me. Can you help me out here?

Rgds,
__
/im

No forum posts on eBay. This legacy thread has held its value.

heh,
__
/im