Here is a subject that interests me. Has the speculative bubble in Harbour Lights burst? Does it make any sense to buy multiple pieces of the new 10,000 piece versions? The quality of the new HL's is incredible and the number of new collectors is, I think, growing. But will the value of the newer pieces increase as the value of the older pieces have.
When I attended the first reunion I heard of collectors who were buying multiples of every piece put out. The price of really popular pieces, ie. Thomas Point, does not seem to be increasing. I don't know, but has Sanibel increased in price now that it is disappearing from the shelves? Maybe a special issue like Hillsboro Inlet will increase, but maybe not if 3000 collectors buy all 6500 pieces. The prices on the secondary market nearly stopped me from starting on my collection. Fortunatly, I found most of the Oregon lights at retail and then was off and running.
I buy them because I like them. Is there any other good reason?

I would highly recommend you buy because you like them. If the price goes up, then that's great. If it doesn't you can still enjoy your purchases for a long time. The majority will always be worth at least if not more than you paid for them. Enjoy your HLs! That's the true meaning of collecting HLs.

You buy them for the very best reason of all. Everything else is secondary, although the potential for appreciation does add some interest to the line. Prices going up make you feel better about what you have spent, but if appreciation becomes the *objective*, it's no longer any fun, imo. I only buy one of each, and have no intentions of ever selling any except possibly in a financial emergency. I feel I could enjoy the line even if prices were to collapse, but the prospect of appreciation adds to the thrill of the chase, trying to get the ones you want before the price goes out of sight. I'd rather have the aesthetic enjoyment I presently get from the line than the appreciation, if I had to choose. Fortunately, I haven't had to make that choice.

-Art

[This message has been edited by Art (edited 02-18-99).]

Thank you Bob & Art. As a two month old COLLECTOR of Harbour Lights I find your remarks exactly what I have been thinking as I have read some of these forums of late. I believe you are either a COLLECTOR or INVESTOR. There's a lot more fun in COLLECTING because then you're not working the net to find out what your pieces are work every day like reading the stock quotes in the Wall Street Journal. There's no anxiety if something doesn't appreciate 100% in a year. I wouldn't buy a piece because it's going to be worth money down the road. I have to be attracted to a piece and not financially!

One only has to remember how many collectible fields have been ruined by INVESTORS (i.e., coins...).



------------------
Ken

Let me rephrase the question. First, I am a collector, not an investor though I did buy NPL as an investment and it was a good one. But are there any new pieces that really have much hope of selling out while maintaining strong demand? Take Hatteras for instance. Still selling strong as a glow I suspect. The newer lighthouses tend to have a more local fan base. In the market place on this forum, it seems that a lot of pieces are being sold at retail prices or even, in some cases, less. I think this is a very good thing for collectors. Is there anyone out there who owns more than three Sanibels with a disenting view? Anyone think they know of a sleeper?

Speaking of Sanibel:

There was alot of hype about Sanibel being sold out before it was even shipped, yet I can walk into a few area dealers and still see them on the shelves for retail. Granted it is a wonderful piece and has a prime spot in my curio, but I think the reason there are still some to be found at retail is the fact it is an expensvie HL and not one to be purchased by a non-HL collector who may want it as a momento of a trip to Florida.

I do believe that someday Sanibel will appreciate in value and become one of the more valuable HLs. At the present time, I'm happy to just appreciate it myself as I view it with all my other favorite HLs (including GLOWS) in my display curios.

That's the word from the East Coast where it's overcast and 35 degrees.

In general, buying 'extras' of newly-issued pieces in hopes of significant appreciation is self-defeating. The only justification IMHO for buying an extra of every piece is 1) you want to be able to give your heirs a complete set without giving away yours or 2) You have a second home and want to 'furnish' it with the same collection or 3) You own a self-storage facility that isn't fully rented.

As postulated elsewhere in these forums, I pointed out that in the case of a piece such as Sanibel, so many 'extras' were purchased that significant appreciation will not take place until most of those extras are sold off.

What makes a piece appreciate significantly is there are too few to buy to meet the demand.

The Internet (and this site) have made everyone who has an extra a seller with ready access to buyers.

In the past sellers set the price, it seems today that buyers are determining the price. In effect, sellers are undercutting one another in a 'bid' to win the buyer.

While we know of SOME pieces that have grown significantly in value, they are the exception.

But if Sanibel is selling for $140 and it cost $125, your 'profit' of $15 is a return of 6% a year for two years. Better than a passbook savings account, but not nearly as liquid.

Don't forget to add tax or shipping to the original purchase and your 6% just disappeared.

Several recent announcements by Harbour Lights seem to have a bearing on this discussion. The early retirements of Wind Point and Round Island and the 6,500 edition size of Hillsboro are, in my mind, efforts by Harbour Lights to revive the excitement of the Thomas Point/Sanibel era.

I think collecting lighthouses has a core audience, of which we are a part, but for the overall number of collectors to increase sognificantly, the well known and popular lighthouses have to available to be collected. Harbour Lights current line of Limited Editions doesn't include many pieces that fit that description. And, perhaps of even more concern to HL and HL collectors, there aren't too many well known, widely popular lighthouses left to be modeled.

I think this, more than anything else, is responsible for the excitement subsiding some. No one's getting hooked on the LE's when they visit Ponce de Leon or Cape Hatteras or Portland Head. If they purchase a HL souvenier of the visit, it's a GLOW, not an LE, and it looks mighty nice for the $50 bucks.

So, to the point of this thread. Buy the ones you like because you like them. Not because they *might* be worth more than you paid for them some day. I'd say the chances are they'll be worth only what another lighthouse collector will pay you, and the odds favor that being less than what you paid.

Rick

The bottom line is this: New editions of Harbour Lights are not a good for investment purposes, but they are very nice pieces to collect. The only ones that will significantly go up in value are the early ones(5500)and a few select pieces from time to time(society pieces,event pieces,reunion pieces,etc). Just look at what they are bringing on the secondary market---some are even being sold for less than issue price. This same thing happened with Dept 56 when they flooded the market with too many pieces. But then again, Harbour Lights are produced for collectors not investors.The stock market is for investors. People who buy multiple pieces just make it harder for fellow collectors to get the pieces they want(especially at a reasonable price). So if you want to invest, get in the stock market and let collecting be a more enjoyable hobby for the rest of us. I appologize if this sounds a bit harsh and I don't want to make any enemies but it is just the way I feel.---"the lightkeeper'--Mike

Why is Sanibel still available ?

Let me throw in my 2 cents

If I remember correctly (feel free to post corrections to my memory of this story) early on when sale's people were taking orders from dealers, a dealer ordered about 1/3rd of the production of Sanibel leaving the rest of the dealers with about a maxinum of 3 pieces each. Then HL decided to scrap all the original orders and go to an allocation system for Sanibel to be fair to all dealers. I am guessing that when each dealer was told how many they could buy, many dealers bought the maxinum assuming that it would be the one and only chance to buy Sanibel creating an instant
sellout and a false retirement (not that it realy wasn't retired) just that the allocation created panic among dealers after some of them missed the boat with follow up orders to Thomas Point.

Abe Fromen
NEWSFLASH !!! This just in, Chris Farley's Buzz just wore off !!!!!!!!


[This message has been edited by Mark Wagner (edited 02-19-99).]

Remember when thinking about "investing" in Harbour Lights that none of the pieces have any inherent value. The Prices go up only because some wacko is willing to pay. Basicly every lighthouse you (and I) have is worthless. Except for the beuaty and romance they bring into my life on a daily basis. If you are collecting for any other reason beside an appreiciation for what they are, very nice works of art, then you should probably stick to gold.

Buy On
Tucker

Personally, I think of my collection as an investment. It is an investment in my enjoyment, my time, my energies, and in keeping me happy. This investment is priceless.

Don't get me wrong though, this doesn't mean that I am not concerned about the value of my collection. It would be very disappointing if the value of my collection crashed, or that of the entire line in general. In addition to the above mentioned "investments", I have invested a lot of money in my collection. I know. Let the buyer beware. There is always a chance, and I accept this, that the value may go down. If so, I would still have my collection to enjoy, but it would be a shame to have spent 4x retail or more on pieces, only to be able to have purchased them at retail at a later date.

I know that buying for an investment and being concerned about value are two different things, but they are related, and we shouldn't lose sight of that. I don't buy Harbour Lights as an "investment" and I don't buy extra pieces for speculation, but I am very concerned about the "value" of my collection, both in monitary and emotional terms.

For what it's "worth",

-Todd



[This message has been edited by Todd Shorkey (edited 02-19-99).]

"1) you want to be able to give your heirs a complete set without giving away yours"


Only St. John can do the impossible????

0 :?)

Wondered how long it would be before someone caught that.

But notice I did say "Give" your heirs, not "Leave" your heirs. They're still your heirs even while you're living, aren't they?

[This message has been edited by JChidester (edited 02-20-99).]

Right you are, John. According to Noah's good book, 1) one who inherits, or is entitled to succeed to the possession of, any property....

Maybe it was the other set I had trouble with, it must mean you're planning to take your with you???

Oh, the other set -- my collection for today!!!

You mean I can't take it with me???? I figure I'm in heaven already surrounded by these lovely beacons.

What's a Saint to do? Think I can talk the Big Keeper into permitting a Saint to drag along a bunch of blue boxes when it comes time?

0 :>)

Here comes my two cents worth:

Perhaps we're overlooking the most important factor relating to our mutual admiration of the HL line. One 5500 series piece is worth a lot more than others. Some of the newer pieces will be worth a lot more than the other newer pieces. Tourists intercept some of these pieces and they will never be seen again. Could it be supply & demand that will power the final value of our HLs? Will it be "hard-to-come-by" that makes the price/worth rise?

If that was the case HL should just retire the slow sellers and smash what they have left. This would create a frenzy that would surely drive the "worth" of those pieces skyward. But you know what? That isn't going to happen.

Now that I've misled you down another path and you are probably wondering where I'm going with this, I'll tell you. HL Collectors need to cultivate new HL Collectors. Harbour Lights needs to do more events, like the reunion, Bill or Nancy appearences, and any other event that draws attention to the line.

The reunion was the changing point for me. When I left there on Sunday afternoon, I really felt great about the HL line, and then and there decided to buy the whole collection if possible (Only 9 LEs left to go!) There are those high price HLs I'll never get unless I win them in a raffle, but I made the move towards a total committment to the HL line.

The bottom line is I went from one HL in 9/97 to just under 175 pieces now. I'm missing 9 LEs, the NPLs, and a few GLOWS. I was cultivated and grew very well into the HL Family of Collectors & Wackos. Most of the credit goes to this forum and the chatrooms (Both here and AOL). I've met some wonderful people through these forums and consider them friends and respect their opinions about the HL line. I too have cultivated a few and I'm happy to have done that.

The more serious collectors we have, the more valuable our pieces will be, and that's even if we never even think about parting with them.

"Keep them coming, Bill!" If you build them...we will come and buy them!

That's the word from the East Coast where I had a grand day viewing Scituate Light, Minots Ledge, and Boston Light, as well as a wonder walk on Nantasket Beach followed by a wonderful dinner overlooking the water at the "Red Parrot" on the beach. What a country! By the way Fred, it's cold here tonight...only in the low 20's.

I recently bought Coquille River to "complete" my collection, not as an investment. Not once (with about 100 pieces) have I ever thought of purchasing one of HL's lights to re-sell and reap a profit...I'm in this for the enjoyment of collecting...

Hey Rock,
I hope you got a good Mortgage rate.
Enjoy. I recently acquired several pieces that I never thought would be in my price range. The enjoyment I get from looking at the pieces cannot be understood by anyone who doesn't have it. My alternative was probably a GLOW? NO WAY!!!
Congratulations!
Bob

Checking the news today I found this article on the state of collecting in America today. Thought you all might enjoy reading it and then commenting as to it's applicability to our HL collections. It sounds a lot like what I've said here in the HL fora many times, collect 'em because you like 'em, not because the kids are going to inherit them.

www.cnnfn.com/1999/07/09/investing/q_collectibles/

Rick

[This message has been edited by RMau (edited 07-09-99).]

Great article, Rick. We got into this collecting thing because we loved lighthouses. We began collecting slowly and then caught the fever to get what we could before they were gone. If it hadn't been a limited edition and would have been an open edition, we would have gone about it much differently and would still be buying HLs slowly. Collecting fever can get to you, but I'm glad we started before HL fever set in like it did. We hope our collection retains it value - wouldn't be normal if we didn't - but the most important points have been our "love" for lighthouses and the feeling that HL does it better than any other company.

Kathy

That was a great article. I started collecting HL's about a year and a half ago. I have pretty much stuck to collecting the Lighthouses I have been to. The only one in my collection that I haven't visited yet is Sea Girt. I might be able to get there next month when I go to LI. I have no problem with the fact that some of my pieces are GLOWS and not LE's. The value that they bring to my memories is priceless.

John

This is a subject that I have spent lots of time thinking about since becoming a Collector. IMO, those who buy more than one collectible for the purpose of making a quick buck make it that much more difficult for collectors like me who came into this late in the game. Although I have increased my collection to nearly 20 HL's in the past six months, I look at the number of pieces available and my head swims. I don't know if it will be possible for me to ever have a complete collection, but it would be easier if there were NO investors.
And if anyone wants my Hillsboro, they'll have to pry it from my cold, dead hands!
Bill

I really enjoy collecting. My wife says I am addicted to it. When I was a kid I collected comic books ( had the most of anybody in my neighborhood! ),baseball cards, matchbox cars, soldiers, caps.Later fishing equipment and outdoor books which I still have both. Now my wife, kids and I collect Boyds,Brian Baker,Beanies,and Lighthouses. Each of the kids has their own collection of something.I think there is a lot of neat stuff that goes along with collecting (like this forum)
That any of our collections go up in value is exciting,interesting and a challenge, but funny thing is - of all those things I collected thru the years, I never sold any of it.I don't know what happend to the stuff I had when I was a kid, but I didn't sell it. (If I had it now I might sell it ) And I think most collectors are like me.
What I like over the LE vs GLLOWS is that there is a limited number and I have one. That's neat!
Take care,
QC

QC,

I know what you mean about always being a collector. Stamps etc. as a kid.
My house now is filled with the different antiques & collectibles I've picked up at garage sales & flea markets over the last 20 years. Cookie jars, old kitchen ware, old toasters, reamers, Old irons & washboards.
Depression glass by the boxfull. Old oak furniture which I refinish.
A lot of the glass I would pick up because I knew it was worth a lot more than the selling price. However, much to my family's consternation I've never sold ANY of it.
But then HLs came into our lives last September. The first big transition was no more garage sale prices. This was big bucks for me to spend. The family has never seen me spend money like this. But the up side is now I'm considering selling some older stuff thru e-bay, to get more money for HLs!
I just know I love my lighthouses & the trips they represent, that they may be worth more someday means nothing since everything that comes into this house never leaves.

Donna

Donna: I love your story about collecting. It sounds very familiar! I have a lot of the same types of items that you have. Since I've started collecting HL's a lot of that "old stuff" is becoming less and less appealing. I've actually recently boxed up some of it and gotten it out of my sight. Maybe at some point I'll try selling it too.

MOMBO

Life is settle down a bit and we are catching up on our Forum reading.

We really like what Todd said about his HL Collection. "It is an investment in my enjoyment, my time, my energies, and in keeping me happy." We totally agree and really enjoy our collection.

We get a real kick out of John's 6% profit theory. We have found so many bargains to be had in HL's out there and bought quite a few extra pieces over the years at major discounts in hopes of trading a group of them someday for the tough to afford Coquille, Hatteras and Portland Head and others that we don't have. We have had some success in getting some of the older higher priced HL's, but we found that most folks who have these big three aren't much interested in trading for other HL's and so we have sold off a lot of our extras. We have experienced quite a bit more than a 6% profit. My grandfather told me if you are told you can make more than a 20% return, run. Well, we have made well in excess of that on our eBay auction of HL's in a number of cases and that is without setting any reserves. It isn't going to happen in the market right now (there are a couple of exceptions), but our experience leads us to believe that the collectibles market is extremely cyclical. Oh yes, on our eBay sales, the buyer pays the actual shipping and insurance and we have never had a buyer question that. So we have not lost part of our profit on shipping and insurance.

We are still coming across deals on HL's from time to time, and if we have a little extra case, we buy them. If you buy them right, they have usually done much better than most of our investments.

I know we are going to make some of you folks angry at us. But we have kept our real thoughts on this to ourselves long enough.

We are not saying to buy HL's as an investment, but then if you find a deal where you know you can turn a profit and ultimately get an HL off of a stores shelf or a dusty back room somewhere and ultimately into the hands of someone who will enjoy them, why not? A number of you have tried to change our way of thinking on this. Must be my Dutch and Michael's Irish tenacious sides that we don't understand why that is a problem.

Oh, for our fellow "we have got collectibles in our blood", we also have the collectibles thing in our blood. Wow is it in our blood - sometimes in looking around our place, it's a bit frightening. Charming Tails, old slot cars, Fontanini, LSR stuff, Pfaltzgraff, nautical stuff, anything lighthouse that is not junk, etc. etc. etc.

Our biggest problem is that we are in the heart of auction country and we are auction nuts. We buy mostly to sell on eBay, but sometimes you just can't sell the stuff you get. Would you believe we picked up a real Tiffany vase for $360 at a farmhall auction that has been appraised for at least $2,800. Do you think we will ever part with it? Finances would have to get extremely tight!

Michael and Karen

[This message has been edited by Michael and Karen Power (edited 07-29-99).]

In response to The Power's post, I find that anyone who is willing to educate themselve's in the HL values and market price and have some spare money to play with can make a very tidy profit buying and selling on ebay. Yes, it is amazing but you can buy one day and sell another on the same platform and turn a profit. You only have your time at stake. I know there are those that tend to look down their nose at these practices but everyone has their own life experiences. I grew up dirt poor in Mississippi and learned from my grandfather and father the value of buying and trading to make a few extra dollars. I love garage sales and buying and selling things. A few years ago I was in a accident and found myself out of work and completely supported myself by going to garage sales and buying and then immediately reselling to second hand dealers. I found that to be one of the funnest (is that a word) things I have ever done in my life. I think I'll go list a couple of items on ebay, it seems to be light right now.

>>What I like over the LE vs GLLOWS is that there is a limited number and I have one. That's neat!<<


Looks like we're just a vowel short of a hanging.

Rgds,
__
/im (and yes, it is neat!)

Hey Tim - Didn't even do that on purpose, and wish I had. A Gallows might make a good GLOW.
Take care,
QC

Save the Forum Threads! Save the Kilobytes!

This forum is a year old and still relavant. The issues are fewer as was called for. Supply and demand will set the value. Seems to be a large supply.

Moby