I myself buy and sell Harbour Lights on E-bay, as well as in the marketplace. I have noticed that shipping charges are going anywhere from 10.00 to 20.00. This is outrageous! I have never paid over 8.50, either with USPS or UPS. I also live 15 miles from a post office that I usally stop at once or twice a week (and UPS will pick up at your home). So, now we're down to the handling charge. Harbour Lights that come in their own box with the styrofoam insert are pretty much self contained, so all you need to do is put it in a box and address it. Either way, 20.00 for shipping is unfair to everyone.

Must be where you live because down here in Florida to ship UPS w/insurance runs an average of $11.00-$13.00 depending if your shipping to the east coast or the west coast. The US Slow Service here runs even more and if something gets broken or lost FORGET IT and DON'T even think about getting your money for anything you shipped for at least 2 months. I do think that $20.00 is a little steep though unless it is shipped overnight or UPS Air. I usually charge $12.00 for one piece and $18.00 for two pieces as long as they will fit in one box. Oh, and forget about UPS coming to your home and picking up unless you want to waste your whole day waiting for them. They ar no better then a repairman at keeping their appointments for picking up. Now if you ship through your company down here you can usually save $2-$3 dollars on shipping but when you work for a company that you cannot leave the building or have someone come in to the building during the day, that option is out. Maybe I ought to move up North and save shipping charges.

Rich

We've had other discussions on this topic. Different shippers have different costs and sometimes you may not want to get the cheapest because that often means the cheapest handling. No tracking w/ USPS.

While there is the actual carrier charge, other items have a cost. I know this sounds silly to some folks, but if you don't have a box, tape, packing materials (styrofoam, air pillows, shredded paper), gas to go to shipper, etc. those items do have some cost. Typically people have most of these laying about but if you ship several HLs, you may need to buy shipping supplies. There is also insurance - if you choose to do that. Some may also figure in the cost of their time. Some folks may just go to one of those Mailboxes stores and have them do it all.

Often you'll see a shipping price for the first model, then a lower cost for additional ones.

I agree $8.50 seems reasonable and $20.00 is very high for a single item.

T

I have a couple of thoughts in this area.

You can track packages with the USPS with Delivery Confirmation. It costs a little more, but not that much and it proves that the item was shipped and when. It's saved me with half.com on several items I sold through them, without it I would have had to eat the loss on missing items.

I've been selling cd's online for the last 8 months and I have set shipping charges based on cost, speed, insurance (I self insure even when I charge for it- I've sent out about 900 packages and had only about 10 problems).

The shipping cost is quite often a way that people use to make a couple of dollars especially if the item sold is done by auction- such as e-bay sales.

It helps to make up for the items that don't sell for as much as you'd like them to. It also can make up for the occasional bid winner who decides to renege on the winning bid.

I agree that $20 is high, but as long as the total cost is known at the time the purchase or bid is made it's fair. You do not have to buy or bid on that item.

I would offer lower shipping costs for more than one item as your costs don't go up as quickly when things are shipped together.

As Tim said there are costs for boxes, packing materials, etc. The Lighthouse is protected by the strofoam form, etc but you still ahve to make sure the HL Box comes through ok.

Dennis

I've noticed that shipping charges have gotten a bit crazy on ebay too... To me, it appears that some of the sellers on ebay are using this as a way to make a little money. If they can charge $12-$15 for shipping and only have to pay $8-$10, then they are making an extra $2-$5 on each transaction.

If you are a buyer that either doesn't care or doesn't notice, it's no big deal...but, if you are a seller on ebay that has 15-20 items listed at any one time, that extra few bucks on each item start to add up over time and it can help to increase the profit margin (or, at least, help to cut your losses).

As with everything else on ebay, LET THE BUYER BEWARE!!! If you don't know the shipping charges on a particular item, ask...and, if you don't like what they're charging, don't bid.

I always check s&h before I bid, this also tells a little bit about the seller. Most who say actual shipping are honest. Another indication is a seller who discounts for multiple sales.

I have send many packages via UPS and the usual rate is $7.00 to $10.00 per package. I have been charging $5.00 in the marketplace. This way I try and split it between me and the buyer! I seem to think this is fair. $20.00 per is rather steep!

The USPS isn't reliable enough for me. If I could elminate them altogether I would be happy!.. On the other hand, UPS has been great and less expensive than the USPS and comes with free tracking, and they have NEVER LOST ANY ITEM (of mine). I've shipped about 100 packages from here in the back woods of NC to all the corners of the US and haven't paid more than $8.50, with 6-7 being more the norm. Even 3 LE's only cost about $8.50. When I sell an item and ship it, the buyer pays the ACTUAL shipping charge. Usually I ask for $10 and refund the difference to the buyer, many seem surprised at this, but it's only fair. I vote for turning over all deliverables to UPS and FEDEX, and letting the USPS fold it's tent. Actually the USPS does a pretty good job, but......I wouldn't fly on a plane that does a "pretty good job".

The USPS gets 4 stars-
UPS/Fedex gets 4 stars-

The above IMHO.

Sellers try to make a few extra bucks by increasing the "shipping & handling" fees. Prices are down so sellers often don't even regain what they paid for an item. Then they still have to pay to ship the piece. To cut their losses they add an extra charge for S&H.

If I see a shipping charge that is far above what it should be, I just don't bid on that item. I save boxes and styrofoam peanuts for reuse which cuts down on what it actually costs me to ship a piece to a buyer. I find it usually costs between $6-$8 per HL, with insurance, via USPS Priority Mail.

Bob

P.S. I usually never walk away from a great deal on HL's even if I already have a couple of the same model. I keep buying them on eBay. I firmly believe the prices will return to normal or above in the future.

I've noticed the shipping charges as well. Like others have stated, when it gets to be $12.00+ I won't bid. I've bought from a guy in Dallas a couple of times (four or more lights at a time), and the shipping has never cost me more than $8.00. If I can get four lighthouses shipped from Dallas for $8.00, don't tell me it costs 15.00 for one piece. You can keep your light. If you want more money, put a higher price on the item your selling.

One of the first things i check after deciding that I am interested in bidding is to check what the shipping charges are. Then I decide if I want to continue and what my maximum bid will be. I don't mind paying for an item I want, but excess shipping charges turn me off.

Bert

I've noticed the very high shipping charges that some sellers are listing, way out of line with the majority of sellers! I don't care what light they are selling for what price I wouldn't buy anything where I feel I'm being overcharged for shipping!

I sell on E-bay every week (not HLs). It is much harder now to quote shipping costs as there are no longer set rates for < 5 LB. packages. Since I'm on the East Coast I give the shipping wgt. & a range from zone 1 to zone 8 for both Parcel Post & Priority. That way the buyer knows it won't be any higher than the listed range.

There are too many auctions where sellers just state buyer pays shipping costs. I would never bid on any auction where I didn't know what the shipping cost was going to be. If you want to see some real complaints read the E-bay forums re shipping. Real gouging!

Some sellers state a nominal handling charge to cover tape, boxes etc. although the general concensus among most sellers is that shipping costs are high enough esp. on lower cost items so the last thing you want is to lose a deal because SHI far exceed the items worth!

Always a lot of debate on Ebay on the shipping topic!

Donna

You're right, Donna. I've experienced shipping charges that amounted to 1/3 the cost of the item, mainly because I low-balled a piece and won. I'm also very apprehensive about shipping charges not listed in the auction information. It kind of makes you feel like the charges will change depending on how much the item goes for. You pay a high price for an item, the shipping charges will be the actual cost. You get a deal on a piece, and the shipping charges will increase to make up for lack of a higher winning bid.

Bob

Not to pick on Rich, but I've heard that line before, and it just isn't true. I think that it has been reinforced so many times, that everyone starts to believe it. Just check the UPS.com website. To ship a 2 lb. package insured for $100.00 from his zip code in Florida to 97523 (Oregon) costs $6.53. You can't ship it much further away without leaving the country. Double the weight, and it's $7.80. Double the insurance and the weight, and it's still only $8.15. Even if you can't leave your house and they come to pick it up, it's under $10.00. If you're shipping to a business address, it's even less. The only reason the $12.00 - $15.00 shipping holds up, is that so many sellers are doing it. What is most frustrating is when they ship it U.S. postal service, and you get to see the sticker with the actual cost on the package. I've only sold in the marketplace once. I shipped two pieces insured for $250.00 and charged the guy $10.00 (thinking I would need it for the extra weight and insurance). I still made $2.00 extra profit! If you find something you like, e-mail the seller and let them know shipping is cheaper than that. Maybe at some point, the shipping charges will get more realistic.

Shipping by UPS generally requires going through one of the "Mail Boxes, etc." type places.

Until just recently Mail Boxes Etc. charged a premium OVER what UPS charged. (However, I usually ship Priority Mail insured.)

When I was doing secondary sales, I usually bought NEW boxes for shipping. My time to buy boxes at Office Max, pack and deliver to the Post Office or to Mail Boxes Etc. is worth something, so I think it's only fair to pay something over the actual cost of the packaging and shipping.

No doubt there are SOME places overcharging for shipping & handling and the best advice is to confirm exact costs before buying or bidding.

No offense taken Lou. Now let's take this theory of yours the rest of the way. The $8.15 that you chose for an 8 lb. package and $200 insurance to Oregon is a good figure, but let's take it the rest of the way. The PAK MAIL outlet that I use is only 2 miles from my house and the UPS facility is 15 miles from my house and across town so why would I spend almost $3.00 on gas(30 miles round trip) when I can drive only 4 miles round trip. The PAK MAIL outlet fills out all the paperwork and shipping labels(and as happenened once), also fills out all the forms in case of breakage and reimburses you within 14 days for your loss or damage. They only charge $2.50 for this service. Add that $2.50(or $3.00 in gas) to your $8.15 and you have $10.65. To this figure add the cost of a box (.65 cents at Scottie's Hardware, tape ($2.00 a roll at Staple's that will do 5 boxes) and finally styrofoam peanuts at $5.25 a bag that will package approximately 5 lighthouse) and if you do the math ($.65 + $.40 + $1.05 = $2.10) and add this $2.10 to the previous $10.65 and you have a GRAND TOTAL of $12.75. This does not include your time or the fact that if you are shipping to a remote area(not Portland, Oregon but maybe Nowhere, Idaho)(sorry Idaho Forum Members) UPS will add an additional shipping fee. It happened to me when I was sending a piece to Tennesee and I had an extra $1.50 fee added on and this was UPS, not the mailing place that added on.

Rich

I just received two more HL's today. The shipping charges were $5.25 and the other was $4.08. That's a lot cheaper than some of the prices mentioned in this thread.

Bob

Hmmm....

Just buy LOTS of them at one time from the same seller to drop shipping charges! Of course this means spending thousands of dollars to save $5 in shipping charges. (Gravedigger strategy)

FWIW, I just received a rather heavy package (11 lbs) from CA to IN via UPS. Total S/H... $15.

Eleven pounds for $15? Such a deal! I just sent a package via US Priority Mail from MA to FL and it cost me $9.90. The package was somewhere between 2-3 pounds.

Bob

Yup Bob. The original s/h was 10.99 per item but by buying 2 they dropped nearly $7 off the total cost and shipped in 1 package. Don't make sense since I always thought rates were by total package weight.

I have just started this selling thing and I charge exact cost of shipping and I go the way the buyer wants. Some want it in a hurry some don’t it is their dime and their light. It may take a day longer to get the total cost to them but I am not using it as a way to boost the price.

Chuck

Digger
For shipping UPS there is an initial charge for the first pound and then it goes up 10-15 cents a pound there after. Also it all depends on how far something is being shipped as it costs more to ship from coast to coast than it does just down the road. For example, if I ship a 10 pound box to Maine from here in NY it would cost $4.56. If I sent two 10 pound boxes, it would cost $9.12. However if I shipped them both in one box the cost for a 20 pound box would be only $5.75, a savings of $3.37.
However if I sent these to California it would cost $8.04 per box or $16.08 to send them separately. However If I were to send them together it wound cost $14.18 for the 20 pound box, a savings of $1.90. I am sure that the post office works similar.
Also for consideration, insurance for the first $100 is included with the UPS rates, but costs extra with the Postal Service.

Chuck, The one thing that you want to consider when shipping to a customer is INSURANCE. UPS authorized dealers(I don't know about UPS itself) usually charge an additional charge( mine charges $2.50) to handle all the paperwork if a claim is involved. I have had one claim for a damaged lighthouse when it was received at it's destination. The buyer called UPS and they picked it up and returned it to my shipper. He called me up and I showed him proof of it's value and he filled out the claim. About two weeks later he returned my piece to me along with a check for the full secondary market value. In several dealings with the Post Office I have had to wait up to 3 months for payment. When you have to return the buyers money and then have to wait 3 months for payment, it's well worth the extra couple of bucks to ship UPS through an authorized agent. This is just a thought for you.

Rich

Maybe the seller should offer a shipping option, UPS or USPS. It could be overnight or snailmail. Give the buyer the warnings and the options. If you want to sell things in slow times I imagine this might be a small incentive.

As I was going through the offerings on eBay yesterday, I noticed a couple of sellers are taking the shipping charges to a new high. Some of these charges are at least twice and almost three times the normal cost. I also noticed there were no bids on the items.

A word to the wise, check those shipping charges before you place that bid. High shipping expense can change that deal into a non-deal.

Bob

Bob I agree with you all the ways. Just bought a HL piece today and paid around $12.50 for a UPS delivery from Oregon. It is on the west coast and I'm in NC but I think a lot of dealers charge extra to boost their profit margin.

Sunny and COLD in NC

Ocracoke Dreaming

I saw the high shipping ,too! $14.95 plus $2.95 ins. I think someone is off their meds with these charges!!

I include insurance and delivery conformation and provide the buyer a detailed list of shipping charges. So far since I just started this all have wanted USPS. They can go to www.usps.com and check if they want. The charge is called shipping and handling it the handling requires more work or additional charges that is where it is in my case. Everything is up front and straight forward. If they have any questions I answer them in a timely manner. As a collector I want the other person to be happy with their light as I want to be when I buy on the secondary market. Everyone must be

Chuck

I shipped three HL's to Colorado from Masssachusetts yesterday. The package with the single HL cost $10.75 (insured) via US Priority Mail. The second package with two HL's in it, cost $17.25 (insured).

There are times that the weight of the articles being shipped and the distance must raise the shipping price. A single HL isn't that heavy but it must have been just above the minimum weight to add the extra charge.

Bob

If it hasn't already been mentioned. Shipping a package is from Zip COde to ZIp COde plus weight of the package. THen we get into 4 days - 2 days - overnight. Enough to drive a WACKO person sane.

Bert

The clerk at the Post Office always asks, "Parcel Post or Priority?" I found in most cases the prices are within a buck or so. I always send in US Priority Mail so it's guaranteed (supposedly) to get there sooner.

Usually the person waiting for the piece is anxious to get it. I like to keep my customers smiling!

Bob

Priority Mail is not what it sounds like.
I agree with Bob about upgrading for a small difference but it's defined as 3-5 business days by the post office. I had an important small cd sent from Boston to Long Island and it took 5 days.

Priority Mail for lack of a better term is like First Class Super Sized.

If something goes over a certain weight it automatically is Priority Mail if you want it First Class as opposed to Parcel Post or Media Mail.

The biggest difference is that with Media Mail or Parcel Post the package isn't even touched untill they take care of Express, Priority and First Class.

I've shipped about 1000 cd's over the last year and I found that it could take as long as 15 days for a package to go 45 miles inside of NJ or take 2 days to get to California via Media Mail. I usually took anywhere from 5-15 days to get a package delivered by using Media Mail/ Parcel Post.

I found that using First Class got that package just about anywhere in the country in 3-5 days, and was more to the 3 day side than the 5 day side. It was also slightly less to mail it by First Class.

I mailed many of the packages via Media Mail because prior to the rate change in July you could not send a small package First Class with Delivery Confirmation- you had to use Priority which has a higher minimum charge. I now use first Class and it's still cheaper than either Media or Priority because of the weight involved.

There's a booklet that is about 100 pages long that lists the rules for postage.

Dennis

Shipping charges have definitely gotten more complicated since the latest USPS increase. Especially with shipping from the East Coast to the West Coast. The cross country buyers really get slammed with shipping. The difference can be $7-$8 for the same 5-6 lb. package to go from NY to Virginia or Oregon.

Since I offer both Parcel Post & Priority on most auctions I have been amazed at how many buyers are opting for the longer delivery times to save a dollar or two.

Heavier items, > 5-6 lbs. I'll toss in UPS as a third option. Most buyers then will choose UPS because the first $100 of insurance is included. USPS insurance is extra,driving the costs up further.

Dennis just mentioned Media Mail. I've just started listing some of the books that my youngest outgrew in similiar style lots on E-bay. Now Media is a bargain!! Eleven pounds of books can be shipped any where in the US for just over $5! Just wish it was as reasonable to ship a lighthouse or glass!

Sometimes the shipping costs exceed what the buyer has paid for the item, I feel bad but the costs are what they are. Anyone can pull up the UPS or USPS web sites and fill in the two zip codes & wgt. of package and know what it actually costs less any sellers handling charges.

Just bid on an HL on E-bay which attracted me with the $8 shipping charge rather than other auctions with higher shipping. Make it reasonable, just don't try to pad the sale with excessive shipping.

Donna

Another thing to consider in your purchase is sales tax. If I buy a Harbour Light in a shop here in NY for $70, I pay $5.60 in tax. If I purchase it on Ebay I don't pay tax. So if my shipping charge is $10, it is only costing me $4.60 more than if I bought it in a shop.

Mike,

I don't know about NY, but in NJ it's not technically a Sales Tax.

It's a Sales & Use Tax. You are required to pay the 6% tax on any item you purchased or used in NJ. You are credited with any tax you paid elsewhere.

You are required to report voluntarrily on your NJ Income Tax return the amount of taxes that you did not pay elsewhere, such as for items you purchased online, mail, etc and paid no sales tax or less than 6% tax on.

There is actually a state agency that has reciprocity agreements with the neiborhing state (PA,NY,DE, etc) that check the sales records of retailers for items that werr delivered in NJ and determine if tax was collected and sent on to NJ.

They then send you a letter telling you you have three choices- pay now, appeal and lose and pay later with additional penalties or don't pay and it will be taken out of your NJ Income Tax refund or other payment from the state.

Your government working for you .

Dennis

ebay has always had high shipping prices. you can buy something for dirt cheap, and then pay 3x the price in shipping!