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Free HL Certificates #76396 03/11/99 01:16 PM
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Todd Shorkey Offline OP
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It has been awful quiet in here lately. Time to fire up the old fog signal. (at least see if it still works)

During the Tuesday night AOL Chat, the point was brought up- "What prevents dealers from searching all of the Big Sable boxes for the free Harbour Lights certificates?" I think most of us agreed that we hoped the honor system was adhered to.

It was also mentioned that Harbour Lights probably wouldn't allow a dealer to redeem one of the certificates. Which brings us to another point. How does everyone feel about a dealer searching their inventory for a certificate, for one of their "Regular" customers? Personally, I feel it should be the luck of the draw. I would guess that is the way Harbour Lights intended it to be. As tempting as it would be, I don't feel it is fair to other collectors to search out the certificate before buying the piece. I may be way off here, but I feel pretty strongly about this.

I realize that we all search inventory for the lowest number, variations, ect. Others may feel this is the same thing, but IMO this is different.

-Todd

Re: Free HL Certificates #76397 03/11/99 03:09 PM
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jakescol Offline
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Right on Todd.
It was a great idea and a touch of class for HL to do this. However, there is nothing that will stop the dealer or employee, to send the free certificate in someone elses name. I also agree that a dealer could pull that light with the coupon and hold it out for that special customer.(lets hope we are all special customers). What will really upset the collector is if the lighthouse given away is a SPECIAL light of sorts, that is not available to others.
Obviously this must have been something that was dreamed up quickly, with the intent for immediate results (sales).
I know my dealer and I think it will be the luck of the draw, which everyone can live with, but what about yours?


Jake Toering

Re: Free HL Certificates #76398 03/11/99 04:15 PM
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mombo Offline
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I certainly agree it would be a shame if the freebie turned out to be a *special* issue by HL. Maybe it will be a Selkirk or an olive Currituck.... Do we know if Big Sable is the only HL that has these certificates?
Maybe a better way would have been to have each dealer allotted so many certificates with each purchase eligible for a drawing to win one over a certain period of time?

Re: Free HL Certificates #76399 03/11/99 04:22 PM
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Art Offline
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IMO, if Y&A wanted certain collectors to have these certificates, they would have either (a) been mailed directly to those collectors or (b) given to retailers loose to hand out to their best customers either as they see fit or by some criteria. Given that Y&A put these into some boxes and not others, it is clear that the intent is for random customers to get these.

In my mind, it would be terribly unethical for a retailer or anyone else to rummage through the boxes for certificates. If I saw a retailer doing this, I would attempt to stop them, report the incident to Y&A, and never use that retailer again for anything. A person not trustworthy in little things cannot be trusted at all.

-Art


-Art
Re: Free HL Certificates #76400 03/11/99 04:42 PM
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RRohweder Offline
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This one is a tough call. My dealer only gets an autoshipment of two, both of which are spoken for, one by a lady in Alaska, and the other by me. Then she orders more.

But wouldn't you expect a dealer to open the carton to insure the lighthouses aren't damaged in shipping. I don't know if the lady in Alaska got a certificate, but I did. I know my dealer has a lot of integrity, but she may have steered a certificate to me. I'll never know, and I'd just as soon not call her integrity into question by asking.

And of course many get opened to be put on display. What does a dealer do if the opened box has a certificate. Maybe the idea of having each dealer run a contest for a certificate wouldn't be a bad way to do it. IMHO

Rich

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Re: Free HL Certificates #76401 03/11/99 07:20 PM
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Todd Shorkey Offline OP
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Just to expand on my original post a little.
I have no knowledge of anything unethical taking place, nor am I pointing any fingers at anyone. This topic is probably making something out of nothing, but the possibility for tampering does exist, and it does make for an interesting discussion.

-Todd

Re: Free HL Certificates #76402 03/12/99 03:16 AM
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Perhaps I'm being a little naïve but I'd like to look at the certificate as generous way for HL to display customer appreciation. As more certificates surface it will be interesting to see how the requested orders compare to the auto-ships. Also, I recall there was an expiration date on the certificate. What a shame it would be to get a piece with certificate after the certificate expired.

We always check our pieces before leaving the dealer. Is that true for most of you when getting a piece at the dealers?

Re: Free HL Certificates #76403 03/12/99 05:16 PM
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jakescol Offline
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"I disagree with the analogy of why HL did what they did."

You're welcome to disagree.

We are not saying that it is not a nice gesture for HL to give these certificates. I think its great! But there was, clearly, a hitch in the process that does create one to wonder, what if?

As to advertising the give-a-way, with the internet, they don't have to. They know that just as soon as a certificate reaches a collector or two, it will be on the internet. All the advertising will be done for them. Collectors will run to their store to buy a Big Sable or two because they heard some one found a certificate in a Big Sable. In short its called MARKETING at its finest. Maybe their forecasts predict that Big Sable, because of it not being really well known, might not be a great seller, so why not do a little promotion.
Fantastic, I love it!

Now if you feel that everyone has an equal chance at one of these certificates that's your prerogative. But some of us don't.

The Youngers are a great family, and I hope to get to know them better some day. I also think that they had good intentions. But don't ever think every dealer is as good as we would like to believe.
Dealers, by far, are the most critical of any collectible or company. They are the first to complain to their reps. They exert more pressure on the company than any collector ever thought of.

I known one in the South where we stopped while vacationing. He had a Middle Bay on the shelf at double the price. This was before my dealer even got his allotment. It was labeled "Retired". We had not even seen the piece and this "Dealer" had already doubled the price. I reported them to HL as soon as we returned. I thought they would like to know. Well, I guess its okay to do that because BY will be doing a signing event in the store very soon.

But keep in mind the Youngers are in business to sell their product. By doing signings they kill three sea horses at one time. They sell, the store sells, and the collector can get a light or so signed.

Everybody is happy.

We have seen two lights retire before the stated issue has been filled. We are also seeing our dealers shelves full of lights. Glows and LE's. Dealers are dumping their extra stock on EBAY. I do remember when the lights first came out, there were very few lights around. I had to call all over to get the older LE's. I stopped at as many collectible stores that I could. One store I was in, only had two lights left on the shelf. The lights are not going out the door as fast as they once were.
Business-wise something has to be done. They are doing it. But they would not accomplish it by giving two dead lights a shot in the arm when they can just stop making them.

Now I think that Harbour Lights is the best collecible Lighthouse on the market. I buy every LE that comes out. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything they do.
This is not my first rodeo.


Jake Toering
Re: Free HL Certificates #76404 03/13/99 02:04 AM
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>>I known one in the South where we stopped while vacationing. He had a Middle Bay on the shelf at double the price. This was before my dealer even got his allotment. It was labeled "Retired". We had not even seen the piece and this "Dealer" had already doubled the price.<<

I disagree with doubling the price, but the piece probably was retired. Middle Bay was available to dealers for a scant 26 days. Its 'official' availability date was 1-1-97 - when the piece actually began shipping to dealers would have been some time later. Its retirement date is 1-27-97. In all likelihood Middle Bay retired *before* any shipped to dealers, so the dealer probably was not dishonest in stating it was retired.

Market reaction to Middle Bay was a strong reaction to the Thomas Point Affair. The market was somewhat 'high strung' at that point in time with lots of speculators snapping up Middle Bay and Drum Point models in hopes of cashing in on the screwpile phenomena. This never really panned out and today Middle Bay goes for $10-$30 above its original retail price of $99. Lotta folks let their money go to waste by stashing Middle Bays in the closet.

Dealers can charge anything they like for a model, though HL dislikes any devaluation from the 'list price' or market dumping. The best thing to do when you run across a dealer (primary or secondary market) whose prices you think are too high, is to simply avoid making a purchase.

Rgds,
__
/im

Re: Free HL Certificates #76405 03/14/99 08:44 PM
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Stan Offline
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I was the lucky recipient of one of HL's free certificates when I bought my autoship Big Sable today. I was both stunned & very pleased. Did my dealer steer one toward me as a regular customer? I don't know and I won't ask. When I opened the box in front of Bill Younger for him to sign at the in-store Event, he saw it and stated that it was the first one he'd come across. He actually took it from me and wrote on it "This is the 1st I've seen. BY". He also said that he'd come up with this idea on a whim a while back and he was curious to see how many of the certificates would be redeemed - he was assured by many in the crowd it was likely that every one would be sent in!!

Re: Free HL Certificates #76406 04/08/99 10:33 AM
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Bob M Offline
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Things have been awfully quiet about the certificates for a free HL that are packed in with some of the recently released 1999 HL's.

Has anyone been lucky enough to get one lately? I've purchased every new release so far plus a couple for a friend and haven't been fortunate enough to find a certificate.

How about you?

Re: Free HL Certificates #76407 04/08/99 12:59 PM
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Dick Johnson Offline
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I was one of the lucky ones that received a certificate for a free HL item. Since my dealer always gives me the lowest number HL when it comes in I was lucky enough to have it in mine Big Sable #289. I know that they did not go through the boxes and move the certificates around since I watched them take it out of the UPS box it was shipped in and open it for inspection. However, having read some of the posts I do have several comments on this issue and some others concerns.

First off if HL wanted to make this a random process they could have done several things that could have insured a "better" system. One simple thing is don't put the cerrificate in the box, but keep a list that associates a number with the prize and when someone registers the HL then they are notified that they won. This gets people to register and rewards those that do. Thus no moving certificates, no worry about fairness, or lack of, and you encourage people to register. Also since these numbers would probably only be associated with the autoships you cover your dedicated collectors as the primary audience.

However, I view this process a little differently. As I read somewhere HL just sort of thought of this and did it. This is the sign of a small customer oriented business that is more concerned about the customers, the product, and the fun of doing business, then an organized, cover all politically correct options, see if we can make more money with this promotion company. One of the things that I like about Younger & Associates and their people is that it is a small, close knit, friendly, know your customers personally, type of operation. I have found that this also carries over to the collectors and I have had as much enjoyment meeting and working with the collectors, as I have with enjoying the products. Personally I hope that they retain this impromptu, lets try something different attitude that makes me feel like I'm dealing with a close friend, not a bottomline company. I say keep up the good work and keep trying different ideas that benefit at least some of the customers some of the time, and maybe they will comeup with a bonus for all of the customers all of the time. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Re: Free HL Certificates #76408 04/08/99 01:28 PM
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LamarB Offline
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As to your last paragraph Dick, well said. I feel the same way about Y&A and their staff, too.

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Keepin' the flame

Re: Free HL Certificates #76409 04/08/99 09:59 PM
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Here is a thought that HL could possibly use for future promotions of this sort.

Put a sealed brown (to insure that it won't be read thru) envelope in every box. Put a card inside every envelope, some will be winners and some will not and put a sticker on each box stating that there is supose to be a sealed envelope in each box to be opened by the buyer only. It would then be easy to tell if the envelope has been tampered with or is missing.
Just a thought

Re: Free HL Certificates #76410 04/09/99 12:40 AM
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Polly Offline
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Well thought out idea Mark. However, this random act of kindness appears to have been rather spontaneous, lacking time to take in all factors. I hope HL will tuck away your idea for the future.

As for me, picked up my #120 autoship without a certificate.

Love the piece with or without a certificate, it was a thrill to open. Who know what will happen next time . . .

Re: Free HL Certificates #76411 04/09/99 10:04 AM
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Good idea about the sealed envelope, my only concern is anytime that something new is added to any product, look out the cost is coming our way. We will pay extra for that person to seal and stick these envelopes.

Let just have faith in our fellow man and if a dealer does pull something funny.....remember he has to live with himself and look in the mirror everyday.

It would take two people in this case to do something this dishonest...one the dealer and two the collector, myself I have not met a dishonest collector of HL, some shady dealers maybe but not true collectors.

Windy,Hot and Humid in Southwest Louisiana, looks like enough clouds to maybe rain. High today around 85 degrees.

Bob
Cajun Country


Bob
Re: Free HL Certificates #76412 04/09/99 05:37 PM
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Robert M Dick Offline
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Do I detect desention amount the family ranks, huh?

A gift is a gift. Don't plan on a hand out. If you see a dealer put money above integrety, get another dealer.

I'm just thankful I can afford to buy the pieces I can. Just brought Navasink home. LOVE IT!!!

Quit gripping. No-body likes grippers.

Laugh and the world laughs with you. gripe and you gripe alone.

See ya.

Moby


Moby

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