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Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76002 10/24/06 02:18 PM
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From Tony Constantino:

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Harbour Lights Collectors and enthusiasts know that Bill Younger, the Founder of Harbour Lights, retained limited edition Harbour Lights with the numbers from 1 through 10 for his private collection.

Now Harbour Lights is assisting Bill and making it possible for individuals to own part of his private collection for the first time.

There are two parts:

1 - One special limited-time offering will allow individuals to submit a sealed bid for all of the remaining #1 pieces from Bill's Collection -- a total of 97 limited editions.

2 - For pieces #2 through #10, individuals can submit sealed bids for all or portions of the collection.

Bids must be submited by 5:00 p.m., Eastern Standard Time, November 30, 2006.

If you've ever wanted to collect future limited editions with the edition numbers of #1 to #10, this bidding process on past pieces will be your gateway.

Information is available through selected Harbour Lights dealers. Contact Harbour Lights at 800-365-1219 or email tconstantino@HarbourLights.com

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76003 10/24/06 06:55 PM
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Must be we aren't the only ones running out of room???

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76004 10/24/06 09:35 PM
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Quote:
1 - One special limited-time offering will allow individuals to submit a sealed bid for all of the remaining #1 pieces from Bill's Collection -- a total of 97 limited editions.
We are entering dangerous ground here. The SSN's (sacred single numbers) are not to be messed with. Selling those as a lot would be like the government selling all the gold reserves at Fort Knox. Those SSN's should be offered a little at a time with most of the faithful having a chance to own one.

The DP's (deep pockets) are already drooling! Ninety-seven flag# 1's via sealed bid, all at once. Anyone care to guess what the 97 flag# 1's will be worth if sold individually? How about a nice round number bid of $10,000. That's a little over $100 a piece. Not many people can step up to the plate and cough up ten-grand in the name of HL's. Do you think a person could turn a profit of reselling those #1's one at a time? I would say a person could turn an extremely handsome profit at least tripling his or her initial investment, if you could buy that lot for $10,000.

Quote:
2 - For pieces #2 through #10, individuals can submit sealed bids for all or portions of the collection.
This is a little fairer to the general population of the forum faithful. But to bid with confidence, we need a list of HL product numbers with the accompanying flag #. Obviously, a single digit Portland Head would be worth more than a single digit Faulkners Island. Now when it comes to the "for all or portions of the collection", how the heck are they going to handle that? John C bids on 10 lighthouse at $100 each. He wants 4 of the 10 really bad so he bids $600 for those 4 and $400 for the other 6, total $1000. He is bidding on a portion of what's available. Bob M wants the same 10 HL's but is only willing to pay $100 each so he bids $1000. John & Bob have each bid the same amount of $1000. John is willing to pay $600 for 4 of them but only $400 for the other 6. Bob is willing to take the group of 10 for $1000. Who gets the 10 pieces?

None of this is really going to happen because someone is already figuring their profit margin by buying everything. This will require many thousands of dollars far beyond what 99% of us (that includes me!) can afford. Our expendible cash tolerates the purchase of all the new releases but nothing like the motherload Bill is willing to part with.

I'm sure Bill wants to move on and not be concerned with a gradual picking away at his collection. The new owners at Harbour Lights feel this is the right thing to do, but I'm sure many of us feel contrary minded. We want the opportunity to bid on each and every one of these treasures over an extended period of time, with the hopes that just maybe a single digit HL may join our collections.

I don't think that's going to happen. DP's are lining up. Even as we speak they are working the numbers and figuring their strategy. The Fort Knox of Harbour Lights will be raided by "Goldfinger" and "Pussy Galore" with her flying acrobatic team. Even James Bond is not going to be able to make a difference.

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76005 10/24/06 10:03 PM
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Quote:
2 - For pieces #2 through #10, individuals can submit sealed bids for all or portions of the collection.
Obviously the bugs have not been work out of this yet. I also don’t know how it would work out fairly if the option is to bid on a portion or individual. I agree with Bob for pieces #2 through #10 should each be listed individually with a item number and be open for individual bids only. If a bidder wants more than one Lighthouse he needs to bid on more than one lighthouse individually.


DANIEL
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76006 10/25/06 12:56 AM
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Playing the devil's advocate, which one of you wants to fund the full time employee to sell the many accumulated lights one at a time? Do you want them to try and retail the pieces out at some arbitrary secondary value? Do you want to pay Lighthouse Marketing for rental of their warehouse space that is needed for other product?

We all want to make decisions based on personal desires and overlook the fact that this must be done in a timely, business like manner. Lighthouse Marketing is doing their best to get the dealer network involved in this.

Not a perfect system to move the lights on to new owners, and it does favor the larger checkbook. However, as is life in general, things are not always as we want them to be and not always in our personal favor. I sure can't blame the folks in Wells for trying this approach in an attempt to expedite the process as much as possible. I sure would love the have the funds to be able to buy the #1s available, but such is not the case, so I will settle to be happy that someone will end up with a real treasure trove.

BTW, I bet that if you asked you could obtain a listing of the flag numbers you might be interested in bidding on.

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76007 10/25/06 12:56 AM
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Just out of curosity, who now owns these pieces, and who gets the money from these sales? I had heard that all of Bill's collection went to the new owners of HL with the other assets of the company.

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76008 10/25/06 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Playing the devil's advocate, which one of you wants to fund the full time employee to sell the many accumulated lights one at a time?
Have them bring Bill's Collection to my house. I'll take care of selling them right from here. I'll even put them in my curios on display.

Quote:
We all want to make decisions based on personal desires and overlook the fact that this must be done in a timely, business like manner. Lighthouse Marketing is doing their best to get the dealer network involved in this.
No one blames them for doing what they're doing. It's just a shame that these treasures can't go to the multitudes who hold Harbour Lights on a pedestal. It's a shame they can't be spread out amongst all the faithful collectors who love this stuff. It would be one of those equal opportunity things.

Quote:
Not a perfect system to move the lights on to new owners, and it does favor the larger checkbook.
Not really, Dave. Most checkbooks are the same size. The real difference is how much money is in that checkbook that can be considered expendable.

Quote:
I sure can't blame the folks in Wells for trying this approach in an attempt to expedite the process as much as possible.
How about a fast and easy auction! Figure out the actual number of pieces they want to sell and post that to all dealers and on the Collector Forums. Put all individual pieces in unmarked boxes so no one actually knows what piece is in that box. Then have a raffle with the same amount of tickets available as there are pieces available. Charge $250 a ticket with the promotion that every ticket will be a winner. One ticket per person unless the initial sale does not sell them all.

Quote:
I sure would love the have the funds to be able to buy the #1s available...
Hurry, Dave! Did up all the cash you have buried in the backyard before the ground freezes!

Quote:
I will settle to be happy that someone will end up with a real treasure trove.
I don't want to see "GoldenPalace.com" get these, Dave! I want to see them spread out to the faithful.

Quote:
BTW, I bet that if you asked you could obtain a listing of the flag numbers you might be interested in bidding on.
Come on, Dave! If you got'em, post'em!!!

laugh Bob laugh

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76009 10/25/06 08:58 AM
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SIGH...how very, very, very sad all of this is...

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76010 10/25/06 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Playing the devil's advocate, which one of you wants to fund the full time employee to sell the many accumulated lights one at a time?
Even though it takes more time and money to sell individually I believe anytime a collection is sold as a group the collection takes a beating on what it could really bring in. Usually what happens is the person that bought the collection turns around and sells the pieces for a profit or ones he don’t want. I am positive that what ever it takes to pay for help to sell them individually will be compensated by the increased profit of individual sales and the collectors will get a better deal.

If money is an issue for paying for help I am sure HL could find volunteers that would help out. I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. I will volunteer one week to help organize, tag lighthouses and answer emails concerning the lights if HL fly’s me up and pays for room and board Or just throw a mat in the warehouse with a portable heater (I am from Florida) and a TV. I am capable of surviving off of diet coke, oatmeal and “a one a day”. I can send a resume if need. I am a registered Architect and since I design schools and am a 4H leader I already have had two background checks.


Quote:
We all want to make decisions based on personal desires and overlook the fact that this must be done in a timely, business like manner. Lighthouse Marketing is doing their best to get the dealer network involved in this.
My opinion is based on what is good for the HL collector not myself. If this looks like only those with allot of money have a chance to win I may not even participate. To many times things are based on money and not what is good for whole. I feel that it is HL’s duty to make sure that every one of their HL collectors has a reasonable shot at getting a single number with an individual bid. If I can bid more on one light than anyone else, how is it fare that one with a lower bid can win mine because of bidding on bulk?


Quote:
Must be we aren't the only ones running out of room???
Good one Mombo

Oh Ya
I am okay with the number 1's being action off as one bid. We can give one to Mr. Money Bags.
And at least we know what the perimeters are with this bid.


DANIEL
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76011 10/25/06 10:24 AM
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Pieces from Bill's personal collection have previously been donated to various non-profit Lighthouse groups for auction to raise money for preservation. I guess that is now going to be a thing of the past. It remains to be seen if and how much the new owners will continue to donate to the lighthouse preservation world!
HCS

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76012 10/25/06 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Pieces from Bill's personal collection have previously been donated to various non-profit Lighthouse groups for auction to raise money for preservation. I guess that is now going to be a thing of the past.
This was my main thought when I saw this thread too. Hilari, thanks for bringing it up.

So, will this in deed make those donations a thing of the past?

Judy


Judy
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76013 10/25/06 12:04 PM
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I'm sure Harbour Lights will continue to be charitable towards those groups doing their own charitable lighthouse preservation work.

The bottom line is what's worth more at an auction, a piece with a flag# between one and ten, or a piece with a random 3-4 digit flag#?

You have one second to answer...TIMES UP!!! Obviously the lowest and rarest of flag#'s will draw more than a piece that someone could buy retail for $85. If Harbour Lights moves them all out in one frenzied bidding procedure, they are gone forever and will not be the star of the raffle to help preserve lighthouses for future generations.

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76014 10/25/06 01:10 PM
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Even though I cannot even think about bidding on this collection, and even if I could afford to bid, I can find better things to spend my money on (I have an entire collection already). I must add a thought about this tread though.

Whether this collection is still Bill's or went to ther new owners when they purchased Harbour Lights, It still remains the seller's right to decide how he or they want to liquidate them. They seem to be doing this in the fairest manner without expending a considerable amount of time and money into the venture. If they do not keep some of these pieces for donations to clubs for fundraisers and decide to sell them instead, that is their choice. The clubs will suffer but will continue to live on as long as dedicated members continue to belong. It also appears that "Deep Pockets" will prevail in the long run to buy these choice pieces but that is life and our American economy. I would love to own a million dollar home but know that is not possible. If you can afford to own that million dollar home then more power to you. The fact that we are even being given the chance to bid on them says a lot for Bill and/or the new owners. We should be thankful for that rather then second guess their tactics.

These are some of my thoughts and whatever happens will happen.


Rich
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76015 10/25/06 06:30 PM
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Tony Constantino:

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Good Wednesday Morning!

I am pleased to see offering the Founder’s Collection has stirred up controversy; it is very healthy for the brand!

I think there are several issues that need clarification:

1.)The Founder’s Collection remains Bill Younger’s property; the Collection was moved to West Kennebunk from El Cajon where the cost of storing approximately 40 pallets is less expensive.

2.)The current management of Harbour Lights has every intention of continuing the Harbour Lights tradition of supporting the restoration of Lighthouses in the United States. Offering this Collection will in no way diminish the commitment to Lighthouse Preservation. Our parent company, Lighthouse Marketing Ltd. has since its inception, contributed and continues to contribute to preservation and restoration.

3.)Clearly only Edition #1 is up for a “sealed auction”; the reserve is $6,975.00, monies over the reserve will be donated to the Thomas Point Restoration in Bill’s name.

4.)Edition #’s 2-10 are not being auctioned, they are being sold in Tiers at issue price; as a complete numbered set, in increments of 80 and also in increments of 40 all at issue price.

This Collection is valuable not only monetarily but more importantly its historic value is priceless. In making our decision to sell the Collection in this manner, we felt that the collectible integrity was priority.

Why did I choose not to publish the Collection in the Forum or “on line”? The simple answer is out of respect to our Dealer network, Harbour Lights feels that we need to support our Dealers. Why not take a few minutes and go to your preferred Dealer and learn about the Founder’s Collection?

I welcome your comments; directly at tconstantino@harbourlights.com
Or call me 800.365.1219

A.J. Constantino
Director of Sales and Marketing

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76016 10/25/06 07:11 PM
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With that money Bill Younger can have his own Screw Pile Leg named for himself. Glad I haven't donated. All the usual Goober Smoochers here will certainly have one I'm sure!

New Harbour Lights YOU SUCK!!!

I have a couple of One of a Kind Harbour Light's items that were given to me. If you want them Tony Constantino, give me a call. I'll return them for auction so that none of you miss a $buck$!

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76017 10/25/06 07:18 PM
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John,
Thanks for passing on Tony's comments. However, even if they continue to support Lighthouse preservation it will not be with donations from Bill's private number one to tens (which usually are auctioned or raffled off and bring in big bucks) because this collection will have been sold to private people.
HCS

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76018 10/25/06 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JChidester:
Tony Constantino:

Quote:
Good Wednesday Morning!

I am pleased to see offering the Founder’s Collection has stirred up controversy; it is very healthy for the brand!...

A.J. Constantino
Director of Sales and Marketing
Unfortunately I haven't had much free time to get on the forum lately but when a friend emailed me as to the goings on in this post I had to stop my work and see for myself.
I don't like it and I think it stinks! Tony, I think you are very wrong as far as this type of controversary being healthy for the brand. This kind of health I wouldn't want. The dissention this is causing is as healthy for you as a heart attack. I have heard from many serious collectors or "deep pocket collectors" as some have called them and they are VERY disgusted with the way things are going. They heard about this and are not even interested . They feel its wrong for many of the reasons already posted and they are concerned as to the future of HL. Matter of fact I was really shocked when I heard one say that they probably would stop collecting them.

Granted the owner can do what he wants with his property as stated by flacoastie
Quote:
Whether this collection is still Bill's or went to the new owners when they purchased Harbour Lights, It still remains the seller's right to decide how he or they want to liquidate them. They seem to be doing this is the fairest manner without expending a considerable amount of time and money into the venture...
RAH! RAH! What about all the time and money that us working stiffs expended buying all the HL and making Harbor Lights what it is today. I guess that doesn't count. Yea sure, this is the fair and equitable way to put the screws to all of us. Thanks, and I sure don't wish you all the
"health" that's at the top of this post.
frown mad


regalhobo
Tom K

:) :cool:
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76019 10/25/06 09:15 PM
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Very well put Tom, I agree 100%!

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76020 10/25/06 10:14 PM
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Quote:
4.)Edition #’s 2-10 are not being auctioned, they are being sold in Tiers at issue price; as a complete numbered set, in increments of 80 and also in increments of 40 all at issue price.
Quote:


The simple answer is out of respect to our Dealer network, Harbour Lights feels that we need to support our Dealers. Why not take a few minutes and go to your preferred Dealer and learn about the Founder’s Collection?
Hmmmm??? Does that mean that dealers may buy groups of 40 or 80 of these super-low Flag#'s? I guess that would be a wonderful thing for those faithful dealers who stuck with the company through thick and thin, but it may just cut the little guy (you & me) out. A smart dealer would buy as many as they can. How about Chris & Maria Alex down at Collector's World on Cape Cod. Just imagine what the "motherload" would bring at their annual auction. You know what? I wouldn't blame them one bit if they bought as many as they can and sell them at a premium.

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76021 10/26/06 01:34 AM
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Actually, the transaction takes place between Harbour Lights and the collectors. The dealers are not allowed to buy these pieces, only to serve as a go-between, to bring an "interested" collector to Harbour Lights.

If a collector were to buy #5 of all available pieces, then that collector would be entitled to #5 of all future pieces, and the dealer who acted as the "go-between" would be his dealer for all of the future #5's.

Quote:
It still remains the seller's right to decide how he or they want to liquidate them
It is our opinion that, based on the sluggish sales of Harbour Lights in 2006, the purpose of this large-scale offering is two-fold; (1) to create a large cash flow which we, as dealers, have not be able to generate for them this year, and (2) to excite and entice new collectors in getting a single digit number for all future "limited editions."

This may or may not be the way to handle these older, more valuble pieces, but we really do believe that this is more of a necessity for creating a quick cash flow than a show of greed.

JIm

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76022 10/26/06 07:52 AM
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Quote:
(2) to excite and entice new collectors in getting a single digit number for all future "limited editions."
Entice new collectors? What about the faithful collectors who have three or two digit Flag# auto ships? Do you think we might not be totally pleased if a "new" collector walks into a single digit auto ship while we have been supporting the company all these years, never dreaming about the single digits ever becoming available?

This will definitely rule out 99% of the little guys, maybe even more. I know I'm already starting to have second thoughts about this whole situation.

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76023 10/26/06 11:04 AM
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So from 2006 on how is Harbour Lights going to handle distribution of #1 thru #10? Are they retaining them as before?

The whole thing that rips me about this is the trust that has been broken with Bill Younger. I thought he really enjoyed his collection. I never expected him to just dump them. At least each one could have been donated to a lighthouse for fundraising. If Harbour Lights thought there was a historical value to these wouldn't they have kept at least #1 for the company? They're just going to "Cut and Run" and make a quick buck while Harbour Light's have some value.

That feeling of being part of a "family" of collectors is definately gone for me. Now when I look at my collection I just now see $$$ signs of money spent, not fond memories.

imho

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76024 10/26/06 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Now when I look at my collection I just now see $$$ signs of money spent, not fond memories.
You will always have your fond memories, Sean. It's just that you may not have new fond memories to add. Things change and not always for the better, but that remains to be seen. I will miss the Youngers at the helm, especially Nancy. She was always my favorite member of the family.

Many of us oldtime collectors will never forget the good times, or should I say the really good times. Many friendships were established on the old AOL Board and at the various reunions, signings, or whatever. All good things must come to an end, but that doesn't rule out a rebirth of good times in the future.

I'm remaining hopeful about the future of Harbour Lights. I sincerely wish them much success for many years to come. The secret to staying positive is not allowing certain negative things to linger in our minds. If Harbour Lights does something to tick us off, then be vocal about it and perhaps the necessary adjustments will be made to put a smile back on our faces. Right now the glass is half full.

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76025 10/26/06 11:59 AM
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I realize Bill can sell his Lighthouse collection if he wants and Tony, Don and Bill can sell the Lighthouse in any way or to whom ever they want. I have talked to Tony and he is a great guy and very zealous at his Job. I respect Tony and I feel that with all his heart he just wants to put the excitement back into collecting and get Harbour lights back on its feet. Dave Has pointed out that it cost money to store all these lighthouse and at a business perspective it makes sense it get rid of them at the least expensive and most profitable way.

However In my mind and probably in the mind of many Collectors we were considering Tony and Don as the “Great Harbour Light Hope” We were hoping that Don and Tony would be able to bring back the good old days of Harbour light collecting. We were anticipating more regional events so that most collectors would have a chance to participate in one and mingle with fellow collectors. We have been craving for more store events and great give always. Many of us would show up after traveling 100s of mile, hoping for one of the great give always that came out of The Vault” (number 2 to 10). Non-profit Lighthouse groups cherished the rare low numbered lighthouses that were given to them for raising money for lighthouse restoration. Now all that is to be taken away.

Before we all get out the hanging noose out for Tony. It is not Tony that is selling the collection, it is Bill and we don’t know how much of this selling process is Bill’s idea or Tony’s or even Don’s. Bill always talked about setting up an inheritance for his children and grandchildren. I personally feel that Bill is going to use this money to leave to his children or to spend on personal lighthouse restorations or both.

The problem I am having with all of this is that everything is tailored for the rich and not for long-term faithful collectors. What I see happening is all of us collector’s hopes are being sold off to the highest bidder. The low numbers for future lights will no longer be held back for events and special lighthouse projects but will be going to the bidder that wins that number. As Bob said you are only simulating excitement for only about 1% of the collectors and creating resentment and distaste for many other collectors.

I propose

I propose two numbers to be set-aside for individual collectors. And only collectors that have not participated in the group bids can register. The two numbers must be ones with a full string of numbers to choose from. This will put more bidding pressure on the remaining lights raising the bids on the group bids. Since the lighthouses that are on the individual bid are single bids I am sure that it will pull in more money than the group bids. This will make all the collectors feel involved.
Of course all bidders will still go to their dealer for bidding. The two numbers I propose would be 7 and 9

I feel that Bill will make more money this way and give every collector a shot at the low numbers. The extra money that it may cost to sell individual pieces will be compensated by higher individual bids. I also feel this is fairer and will make most collectors happier. Also those two numbers for future lighthouses shall be left for future events, giveaways and lighthouse restoration projects.


DANIEL
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76026 10/26/06 02:05 PM
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From Tony Constantino:

Quote:
Good Thursday Morning!

My primary responsibility is to protect the collectible integrity of Harbour Lights and to protect the integrity of the brand for future generations of Collectors!
While it is not always safe to speak on another’s behalf, I can assure every Collector, Don Devine is a man of principle and his commitment to maintaining the collectible integrity of Harbour Lights is equally as strident.

Since coming to Harbour Lights, in February of this year, I have tried to be as sensitive to the traditions of Harbour Lights set by the Younger Family. I trust that actions have spoken louder than words and that the new Harbour Lights Team has and will continue to preserve those traditions.

The Founder’s Collection is not a ”money grab”; it is simply the sale of Bill Younger’s private collection at issue price.

I also have to point out, Harbour Lights is a primary resource and our relationship with the National Association of Limited Editions Dealers, clearly prohibits our involvement in the secondary market. The sale of these pieces, at issue price, is a testament to Bill and Don’s strong commitment to that integrity.

In developing a “structure” for The Founder’s Collection, the sale is between the Collector and Harbour Lights, with the Dealer acting solely as Agent. Clearly, we want to be sure that the Collector is the beneficiary of this offering.

Perhaps there may have been a better way to have structured the Offering. However, selling the Replicas individually through Dealers would not have been practical, how could we have approached every Dealer at the same time on the same day – we wanted to have the Dealer’s operate on a level playing field.

Please know the Harbour Lights Team does understand the Collector and what their expectations are; Replicas that are exact in detail, of the highest quality and priced fairly. The 2007 introductions will offer that and more!

I extend the same invitation to each of you, call me directly 800.365.1219 or write me at tconstantino@harbourlights.com


Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76027 10/26/06 02:55 PM
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Jim Awrey Offline
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Quote:
I propose two numbers to be set-aside for individual collectors
WOW, this is like deja-vu all over again. I woke up this morning with almost the same idea as Daniel, but didn't get a chance to post.

I was going to suggest that #5 be set aside for individual bidding to all Harbour Lights collectors. That same #5 would be available to individual bidding for all future pieces down the road.

Just for the record, under the current Harbour Lights proposal, pieces #2 - #10 are NOT being bid on. They are being sold at retail price. You just have to select which ones you want to purchase. If more than one collector selects the same pieces (with the same #), the winner will be determined by an impartial drawing.

What about donated pieces for future events and fundraisers? Right now, most of the artists proofs are given to sales rep groups for their display showrooms. We actually order our Harbour Lights through one of these sales rep groups, instead of through Harbour Lights directly. These sales rep groups are then allowed to do as they choose with the artists proofs. Most sales reps will sell them to the older, long-time Harbour Lights dealers, who will then make big bucks auctioning them off. Our proposal would be to make these sales reps RETURN the artists proofs to Harbour Lights after the next set of new releases is announced. These artists proofs could then be donated to regional events, in-store events, and fundraisers.

Of course, our long-time dealers would balk at this. It's time for compromise; both by collectors and dealers. Harbour Lights will probably never have the "good old days" of collecting, so do what we can to keep it alive.

When we were given the "limited edition" line in 2002, our sales rep had to be sure that there would be no "offended" nearby Harbour Lights dealers who would resent us also having the line. There is a dealer about 50 miles from us who resented us getting the line back then, but they are also the type of dealer that thinks no one within 100 miles of them should have Harbour Lights! Now, in 2006, dealers within 10 miles of us are allowed to carry a "few" of the local "limited editions." They are no longer required to make a large investment to become a dealer. We realize that this cuts severely into our sales of local pieces, but we're willing to compromise if this increased exposure means the survival of Harbour Lights. It's time for long-time dealers to compromise, too, and give up the auctioning of these artists proofs, which we, as newer dealers, have no chance to obtain anyway.

JUST A THOUGHT

I keep hearing the "Deep Pockets" phrase mentioned when referring to possible collectors who could come along and purchase these low-numbered pieces in one giant swoop. It is definitely an unflattering tone when it is used.

Now, let's look at the CF members who have purchased every "limited edition" since the beginning of Harbour Lights. Most CF members are probably on a limited budget and cannot afford to do that. Before this current controversy, would they have referred to you as "Deep Pockets?" If all of these "low-numbered" pieces were open to bidding individually, wouldn't this group of deep-pocketed CF members end up winning the bids on all of the desirable pieces?

Again, as always, this is not meant to offend any of our long-time collectors. My point is this. Is the average CF member (or Harbour Lights collector) any better off, whether Harbour Lights sells off the low-numbered pieces as a group, or individually?

Jim

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76028 10/26/06 03:34 PM
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Lighthouse Loon Offline
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Why can't 97 of the loyal diehards get a chance to own a #1?
Why does it have to be one rich dude or dudette that gets these?
I'm sure some of the long time collectors can come up with the money if they had a chance at adding one #1 to there collection.

I personally am not interested. I don't care if I have a low number or 9958. As long it's a lighthouse I want.


Stan M
New Jersey Lighthouse Lovers
------------------------------------
Harry Wishlist: Tinicum Rear Range, Miah Maull Shoal, Finns Point, Bergen Point, Cross Ledge, Old Ambrose Lightstation, Romer Shoal, Barnegat Lightship, Liberty Lightship.
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76029 10/26/06 04:52 PM
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HCS Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jim Awrey:
[QUOTE]

Just for the record, under the current Harbour Lights proposal, pieces #2 - #10 are NOT being bid on. They are being sold at retail price. You just have to select which ones you want to purchase.

Jim
The original post states:

2 - For pieces #2 through #10, individuals can submit sealed bids for all or portions of the collection.

Bids must be submited by 5:00 p.m., Eastern Standard Time, November 30, 2006.

This is the opposite to what you are saying.
HCS

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76030 10/26/06 06:08 PM
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I just got off the phone with my dealer in Oregon. I usually deal with Pat but she wasn't working today. I did speak with Karen and she was not sure exactly what was happenning but thought I should be speaking directly with the folks at Harbour Lights about the "Founder's Collection." I asked her to let Pat know that I called and to see if Pat could follow up for me.

The plot thickens!!!

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76031 10/26/06 06:25 PM
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Quote:
From Jim Awrey

What about donated pieces for future events and fundraisers? Right now, most of the artists proofs are given to sales rep groups for their display showrooms. We actually order our Harbour Lights through one of these sales rep groups, instead of through Harbour Lights directly. These sales rep groups are then allowed to do as they choose with the artists proofs. Most sales reps will sell them to the older, long-time Harbour Lights dealers, who will then make big bucks auctioning them off. Our proposal would be to make these sales reps RETURN the artists proofs to Harbour Lights after the next set of new releases is announced. These artists proofs could then be donated to regional events, in-store events, and fundraisers.
My understanding is that this policy has already changed, although different from Jim's suggestion. In the past, Reps with showrooms received APs of all the pieces being introduced. Beginning with the mid-year introductions this year, APs are provided to Reps with showrooms ONLY FOR THOSE LIGHTS THAT ARE IN THEIR GEOGRAPHICAL SERVICE AREA. Otherwise, they will receive a numbered piece, not an Artist Proof.

So, for example, the Rep that serves Texas would receive an AP of the Galveston Jetty, but for all other introductions in that group, the Texas Rep would receive numbered pieces.

The number of APs being made is thus many fewer. From about 12-15 in the past to 4-5 now.

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76032 10/26/06 06:29 PM
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Hilari, You are bidding on the right to purchase the #2-10 pieces. All at retail price. Should someone submit a bid (essentially a statement of interest - my words, not HL's) to buy all of that number, they will have first choice. Second choice would go to a person willing to purchase 80 of the pieces (if no one interested in buying them all), 3rd would be a person willing to purchase 40 of the pieces. If more than one person submits a "bid" at any level, a drawing will be held to select the "winner".

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76033 10/26/06 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bob M:
I just got off the phone with my dealer in Oregon...
Just what Harbour Lights wants collectors to do. Contact their Dealers. Knowing Pat (And Dean, the store owner), I'm sure you'll hear back from her soon.

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76034 10/26/06 07:06 PM
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Jim Awrey Offline
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Quote:
So, for example, the Rep that serves Texas would receive an AP of the Galveston Jetty, but for all other introductions in that group, the Texas Rep would receive numbered pieces
Absolutely right, John. I just got that confirmation on that from Tony a little while ago.

Quote:
The original post states:

2 - For pieces #2 through #10, individuals can submit sealed bids for all or portions of the collection.

This is the opposite to what you are saying.
I guess I just look at the wording of "bid" differently. To me, that means selecting an amount that you want to pay for a piece. In reality, you are "selecting" or "choosing" the pieces that you are willing to buy at regular retail price. The only real bidding here is the number of pieces you "select." The one who wants the most toys, wins.

Jim

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76035 10/26/06 07:09 PM
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I was trying to read all this at work. Here is a suggestion. How about all of the collectors who want a #1 get together and try to come up with the money to make a bid and between those have a drawing to see who gets what. Don't know how many Lighthouses are involved. Remeber its just a suggestion and if I were interested I might get together with others and try to win them. It would be a biggggggggggggggg job but to some it might be worth it. Good luck to those who are going to try for any of the collection

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76036 10/26/06 07:30 PM
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Jim Awrey Offline
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Forgot to mention that at our signing event last month, we did give away an AP of the Edgartown GLOW, so maybe Don Devine has already made the move to use these AP's to entice people to the Harbour Lights events.

Jim

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76037 10/26/06 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Beginning with the mid-year introductions this year, APs are provided to Reps with showrooms ONLY FOR THOSE LIGHTS THAT ARE IN THEIR GEOGRAPHICAL SERVICE AREA. Otherwise, they will receive a numbered piece, not an Artist Proof.
OUCH!! frown Could this may mean I will never see another AP in Colorado again! Or how about in AZ John? That doesn't seem quite right.

Our sales rep provided APs to Dealers to use at events as prizes or to boost sales by advertising that APs were available to get folks in the store. Our rep (to the best of my knowledge) never sold these at a hugh markup for profit and neither did the dealers!


Melody
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76038 10/26/06 07:55 PM
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No events in Colorado and now no APs? A double whammy. Its almost too much to bear. frown mad frown


Melody
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76039 10/26/06 07:56 PM
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Melody, maybe the Western States could get West Coast lighthouses.


Eric, Florida Keys Reef Lights Foundation; Godfather of Jones Point River Lighthouse; member and District Commissioner of Florida Lighthouse Association et el
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76040 10/26/06 08:19 PM
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HCS Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dave H:
Hilari, You are bidding on the right to purchase the #2-10 pieces. All at retail price. Should someone submit a bid (essentially a statement of interest - my words, not HL's) to buy all of that number, they will have first choice. Second choice would go to a person willing to purchase 80 of the pieces (if no one interested in buying them all), 3rd would be a person willing to purchase 40 of the pieces. If more than one person submits a "bid" at any level, a drawing will be held to select the "winner".
Thank for the clarification Dave!
HCS

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76041 10/28/06 07:54 AM
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It's almost two days without a post in this thread. I'm anxious waiting to talk with my personal contact at my dealer in Oregon. She will be working today and I'll try to get a call to her in between taking care of the "boys" and time at the hospital with Lorna.

I need to know what the straight skinny is on these single-digit pieces and what has to be done to purchase them. Forget the Flag# 1's. I could never justify spending that kind of money to make myself smile when no one else in my family really cares about them. My current focus would be to purchase at least one, or if necessary several single digit flags. This may mean forming a consortium of serious collectors who are willing to cough up some cash to purchase one of the lots of HL's. The more members of the consortium, the less of an investment by each. I'm figuring maybe $600-$800 each, but don't know for sure at this time. Before I can even think about it, I really need to know what is actually happening. Hopefully, I will get the information soon.

cool Bob cool

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76042 10/28/06 10:24 AM
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Bob
You are to low for some and generaly to high for most. Remeber Bob we are going to have an overnight fload of single digits (and #10)

I haven't given up on the common collector being finically able to participate. I am working up a plan that would be feasible for all interested collectors to get one of these for retail. I will get it posted before Sunday Midnight.


DANIEL
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76043 10/28/06 10:24 AM
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I think that if HL really wanted to create a real buzz they would hold a simple lottery for the 97 number ones. Send in your name with your preferred dealer-if you could find one-and draw 97 times from the pot. 97 collectors would be happy instead of one deep pockets guy. It seems like a lot of good will for a little effort.

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76044 10/28/06 12:50 PM
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Great idea J.J.!!!


Onward to The Land of the Midnight Sun!
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76045 10/28/06 02:11 PM
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Quote:
I haven't given up on the common collector being finically able to participate. I am working up a plan that would be feasible for all interested collectors to get one of these for retail. I will get it posted before Sunday Midnight.
Dan, you da' man! I like the way you think. I would love to get in on something that won't cost me a fortune but allow me to add a single digit or two to my collection. I will anxiously await seeing what you have to say.

cool Bob cool

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76046 10/28/06 07:17 PM
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I just got off the phone after talking to my dealer in Oregon. I'm not too optimistic about Joe-average Collector having a shot at owning some of these single digit flags. The deep pockets people are the only ones who will be able to afford to jump on this deal.

There are some wonderful pieces in the collection. You may be buying at original retail but you have to buy so many of them (80) to be eligible. Let's be honest, average retail of even $70 each would cost you $5600 for 80 of them. What's that you ask? How about the lots of 40? Well I found out that the lots of 40 are all the newer pieces and not the very sought after older pieces.

Apparently the collection is divided into three tiers. The lots of 40 come from the third tier which is the more recent releases.

I will patiently wait to see what Dan comes up with. I would like to add at least one single-digit flag# if not more to my collection, but I really don't want to spend thousands of dollars to do it. I feel the little guys & gals of HL collecting are being left out in the cold on this opportunity. You just may see a few bail out of collecting because of it.

frown Bob frown

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76047 10/29/06 01:17 PM
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Almost done with my proposal #2

This proposal will make it possible for any collector to have a chance at the Founder’s Collection. I probably won’t be able to get back to it until tonight. So far I calculated that this proposal would allow 166 randomly chosen society members to buy three of the Founders collection at retail.

All the details tonight at 10:00
(Flordia Time)


DANIEL
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76048 10/29/06 01:37 PM
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My suggestion, since they are being offered at retail, would be to offer them to the dealers that are located near the light and let them either reward their existing customers or perhaps gain some new ones.
I would love to get my hands one a sigle digit Old Minots (646) or a Currituck (158)! laugh


Jim
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76049 10/30/06 12:53 AM
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Dave H Offline
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Folks, the die has been cast. Reps and dealers have been sent information on how the collection is going to be sold off. Not going to be changed at this point. Sounds like Daniel is working on an idea to form a consortium of collectors to bid on the pieces and then divide them up.

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76050 10/30/06 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Folks, the die has been cast.
Let's hope it's not the final nail in the coffin. A few dealers make a lot of money, a few rich folks are happy, and another bunch of collectors walk away disillusioned and or angry. Just what HL needs right now.

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76051 10/30/06 01:59 AM
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DANIEL
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76052 10/30/06 02:34 AM
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Like someone mentioned earlier, I am also surprised that the Youngers didn't want to keep #1 of each replica. Anyhow this sealed bid process is really for a priviledged few and the rest of us will just be sitting back and watching the "action." Trying to figure all this out just takes too much effort. It's out of my league so my interest wanes! I do wonder, however, what will happen to us old time collectors who just don't have the big bucks to throw around. And like Melody mentioned, what about those of us in states with no lighthouses? Maybe we'll have to stick to cow tipping and jackalopes!
Judy

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76053 10/30/06 05:43 PM
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Tony Constantino has asked me to post a reply to Daniel's thread.

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76054 10/31/06 02:42 PM
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Wouldn't it have been nice for all the long term collectors to have received a gift(we pay retail + shipping) from Bill as loyal collectors to get a single digit......


LONG ISLAND BOB
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76055 12/04/06 04:59 PM
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From Tony Constantino: 12/4/06

Quote:


I want to take this opportunity to thank the many Collectors and Dealers that called and inquired about the Founder’s Collection.

I do immediately want to post the winning bid for Edition #1:

William Booth
Spring Branch TX 78070

Mr. Booth’s winning bid for Edition #1 was $8,500., $1,525. will be donated to the Thomas Point Restoration Fund in Bill’s name.

Collectors’ World of Eastham Massachusetts is Mr. Booth’s Harbour Lights Dealer.

I will make a second posting Tuesday, December 5th.

Now to answer the question that is on all your minds, yes there are still parts of the Founder’s Collection remaining.

I am working on a Plan B. Plan B will take into account many of the suggested recommendations from Collectors. Plan B will be announced in mid-January.

I am immediately available to answer your questions 800.365.1215 or tconstantino@harbourlights.com

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76056 12/05/06 10:16 AM
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Congralulations Bill Booth!

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76057 12/05/06 01:19 PM
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Does Bill participate at the CF? He is one serious HL Collector and certainly has managed to scoop up some real HL Treasure.

Now we wait and see what will be happening to the rest of the single digit flag #'s. If there can possibly be an organized group purchase from the CF, count me in.

smile Bob smile

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76058 12/06/06 04:54 PM
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Good Afternoon,
Bill Booth does in fact belong to the Forum and is a very serious collector as many of you may remember from the reunion auctions. I don't find time to particate in discussions on the Forum as much as i'd like as i'm too busy making a living so I can afford my collection. Edition #1 will replace many Edition #34 in my complete collection of limited additions. Edition #34 will be available soon and for anyone wanting a two digit edition # just contact Chris Alex at Collectors world.
I'm enjoying my collection at the present time and I am having a new building put on my property just to house my Harbour Lights collection. The wife is happy for then she will reclaim half the space in the house.
I would not rule out that in the future, years down the road, that all or parts of my collection might be donated to lighthouse preservation either through the Capitol Lights of Texas lighthouse club of which I am a member or to individual lighthouses.
I like most of you started collecting because of the love of lighthouses and the Harbour Lights product. I think the future of the product line is not in doubt and we can expect quality replicas to be produced.

There are still edition #'s 2-10 to be had and I think they are also special and a good deal.
Just remember the #1's are in the hands of a passionate collector and you won't see them on EBay; maybe #34 but not #1. Then again # 34 has been good to me so you may not see on EBay either.
smile Bill Booth smile

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76059 12/06/06 06:53 PM
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HCS Offline
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Congratulations Bill, and thanks for taking the time to talk to the CF members. It's good to know that someone who is passionet won the #1 and not someone who would turn around and put it up for sale on e-bay for a profit!
HCS

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76060 12/06/06 09:15 PM
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Congratulations Bill.

Good luck keeping them all dusted.

Dan

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76061 12/06/06 09:57 PM
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Congratulations Bill wink
I have sold a few HL's to Bill and found him to be a true gentleman and avid collector.
I'd love to have a #1 in my collection, but I belive that we can rest easy in the knowledge that the coveted # has found a good home.

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76062 12/06/06 10:11 PM
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Congratulations, Bill, your collection just went from a great collection to ONE of a kind!!


Onward to The Land of the Midnight Sun!
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76063 12/06/06 10:35 PM
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That is just wonderful that Bill Booth has been able to purchase the #1's. WAY TO GO BILL! laugh


Ruthie
"Where words fail, Music speaks"
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76064 12/06/06 11:04 PM
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Congrats, Bill! It is really nice to know that a true HL collector will now have the #1's for safe keeping. They are truly a treasure in every sense of the word.

smile Bob smile

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76065 12/07/06 10:27 AM
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Congratulations Bill! It sounds like the collection is in the right hands. Enjoy your collection at the forthcoming new Harbour Lights museum in Texas.
wink Bob


LONG ISLAND BOB
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76066 12/07/06 12:11 PM
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Congratulations! I wish that I had had the money to invest but I'm glad a Forums member was able to get them.


Rich
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76067 12/07/06 03:35 PM
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Congratulations. Have you started working on the tour schedule yet for all the HL fans who will want to see the #1's?

Just kidding.


Randall Ronne
President - Colorado Lighthouse Collectors Society
New Dungeness Light Station Association
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76068 12/07/06 05:42 PM
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What happens to the #1's that are made in the future?

Sean

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76069 12/07/06 06:34 PM
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Super Wacko
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Posts: 1,561
Quote:
Originally posted by SThompson:
What happens to the #1's that are made in the future?

Sean
I believe the peson who won (Bill) also won the right to have #1 from now on.
HCS

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76070 12/07/06 08:40 PM
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 8,949
WackoPaul Offline
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You are correct and I believe they are shipped to the dealer of Bill Booth's choice... It is now his autoship number!!


Onward to The Land of the Midnight Sun!
Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76071 12/12/06 01:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 135
T
texaslighthouselover Offline
Wacko
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T
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 135
Good morning,
This has turned out to be my lucky month as yesterday I was notified by Chris and Maria, of Collectors World on Cape Cod, that Harbour Lights had drawn my name to win the gold Admiralty Head piece. I thank Chris and Maria for providing the entry forms for each pice i purchased this past year. this does not suprise me as i have been treated just wonderfully well by Chris and Maria over the years we have been doing business together. Collectors World will continue to be my dealer of choice for the autoship of the #1.
Chris and Maria have two digit autoship availiable if anyone is interested. I can't put into words how well i've been treated by Collectors world and I can't wait to get the new Harbour Lights Collectors book. They tell me it's everything you ever wanted to know about Harbour Lights.
smile Bill smile

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76072 12/12/06 01:06 PM
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 7,893
Dave H Offline
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Well, congratulations on your continued good fortune Bill! Perhaps it is time to purchase that lottery ticket to help pay for the new HL display facility you are building...

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76073 12/12/06 03:33 PM
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 13,047
Webmaster Offline OP
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Quote:
Originally posted by WackoPaul:
You are correct and I believe they are shipped to the dealer of Bill Booth's choice... It is now his autoship number!!
They are shipped through the store that Bill used to make his successful bid - Collectors World of Eastham MA. Congratulations also to Chris and Maria Alex.

And Another Big Congratulations on winning the last of the GOLD pieces for 2006.

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76074 12/14/06 07:03 PM
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Posts: 7,893
Dave H Offline
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As I have spoken with Tony about future events I have also been bugging him about what will come of the Founders Collection items that may not have sold. Tony told me that they were working on an idea that he thinks will work for everyone wanting to add some single digit pieces to their collections. Down side is that with the holidays and then start of the new year we will have to wait until sometime in probably mid February to hear the details. I guess I figure we have waited this long to add single digit pieces to our collection that a couple months is no big deal. Tony did mention that the program will be a "benefit of membership of the Collector's Society" so I think he was hinting that we will need to be Collector's Society members to participate.

Be interesting to see how Round 2 shapes up.

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76075 12/15/06 02:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,125
Bill and Judy Offline
Super Wacko
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Congratulations to Bill Booth. Glad the #1s are in good hands.
Judy

Re: Own pieces from Bill's personal collection.... #76076 12/15/06 07:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,227
flacoastie Offline
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I think the requirement to be a Society member is a good one. I also think that Harbour Lights is giving regular Society members the chance for some of Bill's collection is a good move on Harbour Lights part to renew interest. I am not a collector that covets a low number. It has taken me and my dealer over 10 years to come from the 500 range of serial numbers to the mid 50s range in serial numbers so double digit numbers from Bill's collection are not that important to me. There are a few pieces that would interest me such as the original 17, but after that the numbers I have in my collection are fine with me.

It will be interesting to see what Harbour Lights comes up with though.


Rich

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