Did HL ever release the actual production numbers for HL694 Admiralty Head, WA.?

No

I am assuming that since there was around 600 sold in Dec 2006 and 340 left that the total production would be around 940. I feel that it would be crazy for HL to throw away any that was unsold. All Tony would have to do is sell the unsold to Lighthouse depot. That way they would be retired.

Since it is a timed piece, it actually was retired on 12/31/06 at the end of the year. Don't know the actual production numbers, but I'm sure they came be determined. Tony will be out of the office until after Labor Day so will have to wait a little bit.

Good Tuesday Morning!

No, I have not released the number of HL 694 Admiralty Head Wa 2006 Regional Event Replica.

Yes, the Replica is retired it was limited in production, 1 January 2006 through 31 December 2006.

We have had Dealers ask for this repilca and have been able to accomodate any Collector that want it to complete their Collection.

AJC

Tony,

Any reason youre keeping it a secret???

So did any one ever get the final production number?

Good Monday Morning!

In my 27 years, managing Collectibles, Harbour Lights is the first that I have ever released the edition size. It goes aganist my strict training!

However, there were only 750 HL 697 Racing reef Replicas produced!

AJC

Tony,

PLEASE, PLEASE do not change the established practice--those numbers are important to some of us.

The question was related to HL 694, Admiralty Head. Your answer relates to HL 697, Racine Reef.
Is this a test? Did I pass?

Sandy

P.S. Are we ever going to see another Product History breakdown?

I'm with all of you. Yes, HL may be the only company that released numbers for its collectors but we would like to keep it that way. This is one of the reasons that HL was exceptionally unique - they valued what their collectors wanted. I would love to see the Product History revived.

Tony,

Please violate your "Strict Training" concept. Many of us keep track of the edition size. It's part of the fun while collecting Harbour Lights.

bobo

Good Monday Morning!

First to those,who have served our country - THANK YOU for protecting our liberties!

As I reflect upon my youth,my father, a great story teller, even to this day,speaks of how proud he was to have served in World War II!

I did want to answer the question about "strict training"; I have for the past 27 years always usded the NALED Guidelines as my Code of Conduct! In this day and age - protecting collectible integrity of the brand is important.

TRegarding the releasde of production runs I still wrestle with it! Where is the thrill of the hunt?

I quess it goes back to a piece I created for the Walt Disney Classics Collection - the SKU produced 5.6 MILLON dallars in sales; I have not released the $ value of the SKU or the # of pieces made - it is one of the few WDCC pieces that is on the secondary market at 5X the original retail!

AJC

But we HL Collectors are NOT talking about the Walt Disney Classics Collection here.

It sounds to me that the HL productions numbers are going to be hush hush...

What is the consumer supposed to be at the mercy of what a Secondary Dealer says is available? How does that protect the integrity of the product? You get ripped off and probably collect less Harbour Lights.

imho

Good Monday Morning!

i did not say I would not release an Edition size - I said I have difficulty doing so!
also my track record speaks for itself - when Detroit rive and Racine Reef were closed I let it be known. In reality I could have perhaps sold more but chose not to reorder - for two reasons the minimums are high and I would not be able to close the edtion until HL was "sold out". In this manner- "the hun" becomes part of the game!

Sean, I think in 27 years this is the first time I have ever addressed the secondary market value of a piece; beleive it or not HL is prohibited to discuss secondary market because of our relationship with NALED, we are a primary market resource.

At the risk of being a wise guy, I am still not sure why an edition size is important.

AJC

Well, I guess I'll be redundant, too. What does it matter why an edition size is important? It's what the collectors want! That's what should matter. HL collectors don't care what other companies do or what the guidelines are. It's what HL does that matters to us. And maybe HL didn't follow the guidelines in the past, but they kept us happy!

Then why assign edition sizes to limited editions if the numbers don't matter? If the numbers didnt matter Harbour Lights could just limit all the lighthouses to one, two, or three years (or more) of production and then just retire them. I just don't understand why the numbers don't matter. As a whole, a lighthouse limited to lets say 750, 600, or even 50 is much more desirable to have than one made at 1,500 - 10,000 to a collector. Some of us probably don't care about the numbers. The only lighthouse(s) that some collectors will have is the one they were married at, visited one summer, have in their hometown or state, etc. To some of us the numbers are important. You need to here that. If you don't understand it then one day it could be a vote of change that affects those of us that do.

Tony, please listen to the voices that have been HL collectors from the start. I've only been at it since '99 but have over 350 now.

Collectables, by nature are more desireable the fewer the number available. If that number is a secret - who knows what the 'best' ones are.

As far as the 'thrill of the hunt'- forget it. The dealer network is in shambles - the 'hunt' no longer exists.

Just my $.02 fwiw.

The above is so true, and I'm not sure whether the thrill of the hunt will ever return to the way it was just over a decade ago.

Collectors no longer have to visit dealers to find a sought after HL. They can just keep visiting eBay until they find what they seek. Many of those desired pieces show up right here at the CF in the "Trading Post" forum. It's the way of the collector's world nowadays, but I can't quite understand why a collector would buy high and sell low. I certainly can understand a buyer hunting for bargain prices but why do sellers give their HL's away.

I believe Harbour Lights is making the right moves right now and will continue to do so in the future. Many of the more serious collectors have quite a bit riding on the success or failure of the new administration's ability to make our favorite collectible just that, collectible.

Bob

Many collectors have lost the desire to collect HL's. They would love to get the price they paid or better, but Ebay has kind of set the going price.

Many collectors have financial problems, some need money for growing medical needs, some are having it tough in the current poor economy. Those issues force them to sell there beloved collectables for survival.

Why do they sell for less than what they paid? I would guess, something is better than nothing!

Loon, I think you are very right. Many of us are getting older, have financial issues and know that our kids don't want our collections. I've seen a lot of collectors sell precisely because of the problems which aging brings on. And, as you said, something is better than nothing. (BTW, mine are not for sale - yet!)

I know a lot of people don't want to hear it or believe it, but I agree. The hunt is over!

If you wish to prove me wrong....bring it on!

How are you suppose to hunt for special "desirable" HL pieces when the HL dealer network is just about "extinct"? If it weren't for the 2 or 3 HL dealers that I order from once in awhile, I would think HL has vanished, cause there are LESS AND LESS HL dealers out there. Don't even get me started about when Banner's Hallmark Stores around the Washington DC metro area gave up on HLs back around 2000-2001. Banners had about 20 stores and was a large HL dealer..... POOF!! WHY?

OK, this really has me thinking now....

Currently I see "the hunt" for two things.
1st -The Founders Collection
2nd -All those LLOM exclusives

Anything else that I am overlooking?

The "hunt" has basicly become looking for HL's on Ebay.

Except for the ones I bought from fellow CF members in the Trading Post and those I buy from my local dealer, that's the only way I can find what I'm looking for.

Christopher:
If you want to discuss Banner's privately 800.365.1219

AJC

And you can't always trust everyone on The Trading Post to be forthcoming about the condition of their lights - especially the older lights. If you buy from Randy K. or Bob M. or some of the other longtime CF members, you know you're getting your money's worth. And look at how many people have been burned buying through ebay? The thrill is definitely gone; I've even considered quitting a couple of times. Then HL does something that inspires me and I settle back down for a while.

It is obvious that the good old days are gone. But were they better? Is the hunt really gone? I must admit I do miss the excitement in the early days, learning which lighthouses were “HOT” and how to go about finding them. I guess it is like the early days of when you first dated your mate. Yes they where exciting days then but where they really better then than today or was it just a different stage.

I propose that we are not in a less exciting collecting era but a different one. There are still lighthouse hunts they are no longer done by driving your car from dealer to dealer but from the computer searching the Ebay and following up the latest leads that are released on this forum.

I know this may surprise many but I feel that we are in the best times for collecting Harbour lights. I just went over some of the old forum post and there was dissatisfaction of how Harbour Lights used to be run. Collectors kept crying out to what seemed liked death ears. Collectors wanted collectables again and not so many Lighthouses. I think we are now seeing a turn around and I look forward to 2008 to see what’s happening for the future. Who knows maybe we will once again have to get into our cars to find the dealers with the latest lighthouses that are “HOT”

Here is a list what we have today that we didn’t have in the good old days.

1. We now have a Harbour Lights that is working on making Harbour Lights a collectable again.
2. We have a Harbour Lights that actually participates on the forums.
3. Many of the forum members work hand and hand with Tony and Harry with developing ideas.
4. Harbour Lights have released many low limited releases. Four special editions LLOM limited to 300 and a highly collectable lighthouse stamp set limited to 1500. Low issue White Mac (500) and low issue matching Taneys (600). And many lighthouses with a production of no more than 1500.
5. A rare forum exclusive limited to 500.
6. A chance to buy at retail some of the founders collection.
7. We have a forum filled with knowable collectors and lighthouse enthusiast that can answer questions.
8. We have an electronic bidding system called ebay where collectors can find those hard to find pieces.

That statement alone may end up being the sole cause of a resurgence of activity in lighthouse collecting.

Sandy

Hooray for Daniel for looking at things so objectively. You have the "glass is half full" outlook! From time to time, we need someone here to get us to be more positive. I must say, though, that some things you list started a short while back, while the Youngers still owned HL - not trying to take away from the current HL, just stating the obvious.

I have mixed emotions regarding the increase in edition sizes that started on or about January 1995, the first being HL 150, Pensacola FL. Was the purpose of that move to larger edition sizes an attempt to satisfy pleas from dealers that they couldn't get enough of the better selling lights? Was it an attempt to bring more money into the company? Was it an attempt to broaden the size of the HL Collector base? Was it just a supply and demand thing and was it the right time to expand?

We all know things seemed to fall apart with the 9500 edition sizes. Impulse buying of new releases started to slow rapidly because collectors figured the pieces would not sell out as quickly and there was no need to rush down to the dealer right away. The "you snooze, you lose" feeling disappeared. Ebay appeared on the horizon and collectors found a cheaper source of filling the holes in their collections. Secondary market dealers rapidly decreased in numbers leaving collectors with two choices, HL Dealers at full retail pricing or eBay at bargain pricing. Can you imagine how dealers felt when they watched HL's sell on eBay for often times less then they could buy them for. The only saving grace for dealers were the faithful collectors who came back month after month to purchase the new releases no matter what the edition size was.

Harbour Lights was not the only collectible to suffer a serious downslide in sales. The economy went "south", so to speak, and people had less expendable cash for non-essential purchases. It was one of those "food, clothing, & shelter" things eating up everyone's paycheck. People couldn't justify spending money on collectibles when the price of gas was killing their budgets.

Another fact that must be considered is the age of the majority of the collectors. People who were in their mid to late 40's when Harbour Lights started, are now in their mid 60's. Retirement is knocking on the door and along with it comes the worry of not having enough money just to survive. The oil companies are greedier than ever causing the never ending raise in food prices and keeping warm/cool. Health insurance costs are astronomical. How do the poor people survive?

You have often heard me speak of how long people can pay high prices for their HL's and then sell them for low prices. Often the responses I would get revolve around people downsizing living accommodations and not having room for collectibles. It also involves the need for extra pocket money to have fun when you end up living on a fixed income. It could also involve not being able to care for a collection of substantial size. Curios have to be cleaned. HL's have to be carefully dusted with a blush brush or something similar to keep up their appearence. Some of our older collectors just can't do it anymore.

Where is Harbour Lights headed in 2008? They are making the right moves in my opinion. They are doing things to build interest and make their products more desireable to collectors. The smaller edition sizes will eventually lead to an upswing in secondary market value. The passing or the torch from the Youngers to Lighthouse Marketing came at the right time. The new regime has the experience and some wonderful ideas on how to make collecting HL's that more desireable. They know what to do and how to make it happen. Now we collectors must give them the time to make it work.

Daniel is right. The glass is half full. Things are turning around, but this won't continue unless we support this line of collectibles. Collective juices are flowing again. The flame is starting to brighten again. Do your part to keep the flame!

Bob

Good Thursday Morning!

Daniel a great post!

I want to address Bob's comments, but first, I do read The Forum almost every morning - it is motivating - even when you challenge me!

Bob asks some good questions about why Harbour Lights among many other collectible companies rasied Edition sizes etc. First, I have only worked for family held Collectible companies, so I think I understand the thinking.

"If you can sell 1500 in thirty days - you may well be able to sell 5,000 in 6o days." Collectors did not kill collecting - we the vendors did! Simply, we got greedy! and we got Dealers of our backs! (Yes, Bill knows I feel this way!)
In the 1990's I managed The Lowell Davis Collection, in the average year , we had introduced about 20 figurines each year about 5-6 were Limited Editions nothing over 2500! My toughest job - was to allocatre product to our Field Sales Representatives; their toughest job was to allocate product to Dealers. On average, I had between 25-30 calls a day with Reps and Dealers complaining! (It was in the days before e-mail and voicemail was still new!) .
Management was relentless in pushing for more sales - building on the success of the Collection. So I would NEVER increase the Editions beyond 2500 BUT I caved in to more figurines being introduced - we hurt the Collector, who wanted to collect every piece! We frustrated the Collector!We made something that was attainable - unattainable!
Then there was the make EVERYTHING Collectible; we lost focus as an industry!
and then there is e-Bay! The final nail - I very rarely discuss secondary market issues, but e-Bay has destroyed the secondary market value of most collectibles! Several years ago, I was approached by e-Bay to assist them developing a NEW Collectors' Show (like South Bend or the strangest place on earth Rosemont) I quickly showed them to the door! In fact they were stunned by my reaction!
I will give credit to one man and one segment of the electronic media. George Fenton and QVC! I know that may sound strange but here is the history. When QVC started the only way they could get real collectibles was the 'grey market" and to attract viewers QVC sol at a discount! Fenton Art Glass realizingthe power of QVC sat down with QVC management - laid down the ground rules - used thier imagination and opened a whole new market to the collectible Industry - on price! where else could you meet 50 million consumers in an hour!
Stay calm! The BEST is yet to come!

AJC

Tony, Bob, & Daniel have some really good comments, most I agree, a few I don't.

Over the last year I think we have turn the tide back to where HL collecting is on the right track. I've been trying to convince my local dealer of this. He's a little reluctant to agree just yet, but he's been living the downward trend the of the 1999-2005 years.

In my opinion, Ebay is not the cause of the collectable collapse, the cause is actually a poor economy since 2001. Everything has gotten so expensive. The cost of living has risen at least 20%.

Add that to the fact that we HL collectors are on you know what side of the hill. Our incomes are getting less and less. After you pay for food, utilities, taxes, gas, etc., their isn't much left anymore.

The one thing about Ebay that does hurt collection HL's is those HL dealers that are selling new releases for far less than retail.

To try to end on a positive note. What Harbour Lights has done in 2007, and I'm looking forward to seeing what they do in 2008, collecting HL's are definately on the up swing.

It's also great to see all the those "long-timers" as I call them, and us rather "newbies" hang in there!!!

Tony is right, The best is yet to come !!!!!!!!!!!!!