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Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73394 10/30/06 02:30 AM
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DANIEL Offline OP
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Proposal #2

I have given this a few days and have spent about a workday of time to come up with a solution so that all can participate.
As I said before we need a portion of the Founders Collection set aside for the budgeted collectors. It will take a little more effort but I think we can make it work. At first I didn’t understand that the pieces were not being auctioned off, but being sold at retail. This is better yet. As I said before I would like to add another part to the Founders Collection.
The following would be part three which would be numbers 7 and 9. Other than that I am not touching Part one or part two.

Part Three only : (numbers 7 and 9)

General rule #1 All “Founders Collection” participants must have an up to date Harbour light society number. The purchase from the Founders collection will be similar to purchasing a redemption piece.

General rule # 2 All “founder Collection” participants must register their Harbour Light society number with HL and their dealer’s name by the appointed date by Harbour Lights.

General rule #3 Participants that register for either Part #1 or #2 will also be aloud to register for part #3 (since money has no influence on the outcome of who gets what) All society members are welcome.)

General rule #4 All participants for part 3 will be charged a $20 “Founder Collection Club Fee”. This will be non-refundable and the money will be used to cover the cost of the administration of the distribution of part 3 of the Founders Collection. If the cost is less than $20 a person all extra money shall be donated to the Thomas Point Restoration in Bill’s name.

This is how it works.

Numbers 7 & 9 shall be set-aside for all Collectors that join the “Founder Collection Club” The Club members will register their HL Society number with Harbour Lights. (All Society memberships must be up to date). The money from the “Founders Collection Club” fees will cover all extra expenses that will be acquired buy the higher volume of participants. (Overtime, extra help if needed or even special software)

After all have registered, the fun begins.

A drawing will be done the night before for every day during the work week and a list of society numbers (or the winners names) will be posted on the Harbour Light Website and emailed to the Club members that night at 6:00 PM. (Possibly an option on the Harbour light phone number could be provided for the daily numbers). Five to ten or more society numbers will be randomly picked depending on the amount HL wants to tackle. Those winners will be given the opportunity to purchase three from the Founders collection the next day. They will pick one of each from the already established three tiers. The daily listing of what is available will also be posted on the HL website and sent the day before with the winning society numbers. Spreading out the buyers by 5 or ten a day will create a workable atmosphere with out worrying about hundreds of collectors and dealers calling.

Okay you won, how do you collect?
You have two options. You can call the order in yourself like you would a redemption piece and have it shipped to your dealer where you will purchase it.
Or
You can call your dealer with your list that you want for each of the three tiers and let your dealer order it for you. Recommend you give your dealer several in each list in case it has all ready been spoken for that day.
(Harbour light may only want the dealers to call in the order. That would be their option)

Which ones can I pick?


Harbour Lights has all ready divided the lighthouses by three tiers. My understanding is that Tier #1 are the goodies (the early ones), Tier # 2 are the more common L.E. and Tier # 3 are the less popular L.E. and GLOWS. You will be aloud to pick one from each tier. If one of the tiers is empty than you can pick your three lights from the remaining tiers. The winners will always pick three until all are gone.


How many collectors will win?


I have roughly figured that this will allow around 166 people to get three of Founders Collection using just the numbers 7 or 9.

How long will this take?

If Harbour Lights picks out 11 random numbers a day, part three would only take 3 weeks to complete.

Okay Story time.

I will use Bob M as our volunteer to demonstrate how this could work.
Bob pays his $20 to join the Founder’s collection Part III. Bob knows that this Money will give him a 50% to 80% chance of having the opportunity of purchasing three single digits from the founder’s collection at retail. To join the club Bob files his HL membership number with Harbour Lights and the dealer he would like to use. Harbour lights then informs Bob when to start watching for his number (or name) on the Harbour Light Website. As two weeks go by and he forgets to check the HL site. Bob then sees an email form Harbour light informing him that he is eligible to pick three lighthouses for retail the following day. He is also sent the latest list of lights available for part III. Even though two weeks have passed and 110 club members have already picked their three (in this story Harbour Lights decided to release 11 names a day or society number) There are still some good ones left, since all the winners before Bob had to pick one from each of the three groups. Bob checks his list for availability and calles his dealer first thing the next day. Bob gives his dealer a couple of choices since 11 other winners are registering for their three lighthouses. Bob is not that worried about time zones and which of the eleven got their call in first since there are still many good lighthouses in the same class for all eleven. Bob M was able to get a single digit Scituate MA, Seguin, Maine and a GLOW for the total of $180.

End of Story. Thanks Bob for participating in my story.


I feel my proposal will work and this will be considered one of the greatest offers ever presented by Harbour Lights. This will create excitement that future collectors will talk about as being the good old days when collectors were still able to get the good ones.
If Harbour Lights doesn’t turn around the method in the way they plan on distributing the Founders Collection they will miss a golden opportunity to reward many if not most of their faithful followers and create a valuable appreciation for the new owners.

My proposal was designed to handle all of the known factors that were being used as reasons for not distributing some of the Founder Collection to us regular collectors.

Even though part 1 and 2 has all ready begun in play. That is okay. I am not asking HL to change a thing. I am only asking them to add in part III

Many collectors have been quiet and not voiced their opinion. This is your chance. Even if you don’t totally agree with my proposal but you agree with the ideal that all collectors should have a reasonable chance at buying one from each tier of the Founders Collection you need to support me in this and let Harbour LIghts know and let other collectors know by showing your support on this forum.


DANIEL
Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73395 10/30/06 05:45 AM
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Lighthouse Duo Offline
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Daniel! Even though we don't think we want to buy one of those pieces, we think you proposal is very fair and support the idea!


Margret
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Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73396 10/30/06 09:29 AM
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Bob M Offline
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Wow! You sure put a lot of thought into your proposal, Dan. The big question will be if Harbour Lights will honor it. The next really big question is can we get the necessary support from the collectors (166?) to make it financially feasible. Then comes the time line to put it all together.

Count me in, I'm with you!

smile Bob smile

Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73397 10/30/06 10:26 AM
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Daniel - You can count me in if this proposal is accepted by HL and the required number of collectors is reached or revised to meet your requirements. My big concern is the 166 collectors. I don't think that you will get that number as we saw from the ELL sales. I would guess that you will not even get 100. I don't mean to throw the proverbial water on to the fire, but, what if you don't get the 166 collectors? Will the amount of HLs that you have to buy go from 3 to 4, 5, or maybe more? Also, the $20 non-refundable money won't have to be paid until the final quantity of 166 collectors is reached, will it? A VERY GOOD plan but I feel the lack of members will be the problem.


Rich
Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73398 10/30/06 01:03 PM
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Bob M Offline
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There's three of us so far!

smile Bob smile

Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73399 10/30/06 01:24 PM
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DANIEL Offline OP
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Quote:
The next really big question is can we get the necessary support from the collectors (166?) to make it financially feasible.
Bob
Not all the bugs are worked out. I do not have all the information that HL has or how much they would need to charge to administrate my proposal.
I mainly wanted to present a base plan to show that it is feasible for individual collectors to have a chance at buying some of Founders collection.
We do not necessarily need 166 people. If we go thru all the club members, we can start over. If HL anticipated only 75 people to participate, maybe the club fee could increase a little to compensate. In addition, the random drawing can go back around the second time with maybe 20 drawings a day. To get the 166 I added AB, society pieces and event pieces to the tires. HL does not show these in their tiers and I do not know how they plan on selling them.

I gave this my best shot.
It is now up to you guys to make it work with your support and emails to Tony.
(I already emailed Tony my Post above)


DANIEL
Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73400 10/30/06 01:25 PM
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Daniel, Great job!!!

I'm not interested, but will be rooting for you so my fellow Wacko's will get these rare numbers pieces. I know it means a lot to the one's who are the die-hard low number collectors.

Good Luck !!!!!!!


Stan M
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Harry Wishlist: Tinicum Rear Range, Miah Maull Shoal, Finns Point, Bergen Point, Cross Ledge, Old Ambrose Lightstation, Romer Shoal, Barnegat Lightship, Liberty Lightship.
Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73401 10/30/06 02:33 PM
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HCS Offline
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OK, so what happens if you are a member of the forum and a Harbour Lights Collectors Club member without a dealer. Does this mean you cannot participate?
No dealers in my area. I buy from all different places.
HCS

Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73402 10/30/06 02:58 PM
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DANIEL Offline OP
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Quote:
OK, so what happens if you are a member of the forum and a Harbour Lights Collectors Club member without a dealer. Does this mean you cannot participate?
No:
You can use any participating dealer, even lighthouse depot.
If you are not near a participating dealer, they can just ship it to you. I would recommend to find a dealer with free shipping.


DANIEL
Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73403 10/30/06 05:18 PM
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From Tony Constantino:

Quote:
Good Monday Morning!


Before I answer Daniel’s very thoughtful proposal, I would like to clarify a point:

Artist’s Proofs

As Director of Sales and Marketing, I made a conscience decision to limit the distribution of AP’S.

Showroom sampling needs to be monitored regularly in order it does not get out of control.

Harbour Lights is having fewer AP’S made and I am no longer sending entire sets of new AP’S to Showrooms, the Reps are in agreement with this decision as display space is an issue.

There was a concern our Denver Showroom may not be getting any more samples due to the fact, I tend to distribute samples regionally. Please rest assured Kellogg and Associates will always receive samples of new Replicas.

That said; fewer AP’S are being made and distribution extremely limited.

Think about it!

Dan’s proposal is both thoughtful and worthy of consideration. I have read though his proposal several times, this morning, I am a bit overwhelmed by its administration but it could be workable.

I have a program currently out with over 200 Harbour Lights Dealers nationwide and cannot pull the program back, that would cause a lot of frustration.

I read the Forum carefully, each day and understand the concerns of its readers and participants – you are being heard!

Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73404 11/08/06 01:20 AM
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DANIEL Offline OP
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For those few that supported the idea of some of the Harbour lights being available for the non- moneybags collectors, I thank you. I realize that some may have emailed Harbour Lights but it is obvious that many that could have supported this cause didn’t.
If we had thirty collectors follow up on this and agreed that something should be worked out, I know that would have been enough to push HL to at least set aside one number for the regular collectors. I spent eight hours of my weekend trying to come up with some type of plan to show it was possible to distribute some of Bill’s collection to us collectors and I couldn’t even get thirty people to spend two minutes and just say I support you.


DANIEL
Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73405 11/08/06 09:46 AM
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I appreciated your efforts, Daniel. You are one of a handful of unique individuals who really care what happens.

I was willing to spend up to $1000 to buy in to the single numbers at reasonable pricing. That grand would have been a great investment and could have returned a wonderful profit, and would have added some great single digit Flag#'s to my personal collection. I could have sold half and kept half. The half I would have kept would have been paid for by the sales of the other half.

Oh well, I'll just keep buying and selling like I do, and sooner or later I may just add a single-digit flag# to my collection.

Thank you for all your efforts, Dan!

smile Bob smile

Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73406 11/08/06 12:10 PM
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Quote:
I couldn’t even get thirty people to spend two minutes and just say I support you.
Daniel, sorry to hear you are so frustrated. I agree with you. It is a shame!! Thank you so much for your time and effort! Sorry we could not be of more help!

We are still hoping to be able to aquire a single didgit some time, btu at the moment the finances just will not strech that far.


Margret
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Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73407 11/08/06 02:16 PM
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HCS Offline
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Daniel,
I agree with Margret. Would love to have a single digit number, but finances especially at this time of year are limited.
Your proposal is a great idea, but does not sound like Tony/Harbour Lights would consider it at this time.
HCS

Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73408 11/08/06 05:55 PM
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What a shame that we could not muster at least 30 people to back such a wonderful proposal. I would be very happy to be part of this proposal and hope that somehow, someway something can be done to help those of us who are willing to be a part of this.


Bert

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Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73409 11/08/06 10:31 PM
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Daniel,

Dont give up the fight yet! You can count me in, in fact, count me twice!! laugh

Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73410 11/09/06 01:34 AM
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DANIEL Offline OP
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Just a refresher.
My proposal was for two numbers of the founder’s collection to be set aside for random drawings. As Collectors would win the drawing, they would buy three lighthouses.
An older L.E., a newer L.E. and a glow, all at retail that would total some where around $180
I proposed two numbers out of the 2 to10, set aside for us collectors. It could have been just one number if not enough collectors were involved.

The idea was to leave the existing plan that Harbour Lights and Bill younger all ready agreed upon. The only difference was to take two numbers out and make them randomly available to all collectors. If this is too much at least give us collectors one number. We could use the existing groups that HL has listed and divide them into three. The good, the medium and the GLOW.

I do not think everyone understands the big picture.
The three lighthouses will cost around $180 but they will be valued at much more.
I would think you should be able to sell a single digit glow for twice retail if not three times. What if you were one of the collectors that got to pick the first week? Maybe you would have a chance at the Sandy Hook or St Augustine. I would think one of those should go for $600 and would not be unheard of if it went for $1000 or more.
As I said before after the founder’s collection is sold we may have a flooded market on some of the lights and it will take a few years for their prices to rebound. It all depends on how many buyers are going to hold on to what they have and how many are going to sell.
The older lights will not be affected too much by this but the Glows will. Even still any light from the founders collection will be a treasure to behold. If the $180 is too much for some collectors I think we could find collectors that would buy one or two lights off of them for retail. This would allow collectors to buy one if that is all they could afford.

There is no magic in the number 30 for supporters; it is just a number I picked out that I thought would look impressive. I appreciate the support and I don’t blame anyone At HL. I realize the ball is already rolling and the plan is put into place, but I feel that it is wrong that most of the collectors will not have a chance and that is why it is hard for me to let this drop.


DANIEL
Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73411 11/09/06 07:02 AM
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If I understand this correctly, you have to be a society member (I am) and you pay $20.00 for a chance to buy the lighthouses at retail. If my name is not picked, I am out the $20.00 but if my name is picked, I get a single digit lighthouse. Is this correct?


Eric, Florida Keys Reef Lights Foundation; Godfather of Jones Point River Lighthouse; member and District Commissioner of Florida Lighthouse Association et el
Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73412 11/09/06 10:53 AM
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catzb1 Offline
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Daniel,

I was going to post to count me in, but then I read the post from Tony Constantino and, in one sentence he seemed to like the ida, and in another he seemed doubtful that it could be done so I gave up hope. But, given the chance, you can count me in! I will have to join the Society again, but I was thinking about doing that again anyway. I really hope this happens.

smile Cathy smile

Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73413 11/09/06 11:17 AM
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DANIEL Offline OP
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Quote:
If I understand this correctly, you have to be a society member (I am) and you pay $20.00 for a chance to buy the lighthouses at retail. If my name is not picked, I am out the $20.00 but if my name is picked, I get a single digit lighthouse. Is this correct?
Yes. If you win, you have the opportunity to purchase three of Bill's collection at retail. If you do not win, you are out of the twenty dollars just like if you bought a raffle ticket.
However, one important clarification needs to be made.
If HL followed my original proposal of the number #7 and #9 set aside for collectors, this would allow around 166 collectors ( I did a rough estimate) to win the chance to buy three.
This is the good part.
If only 166 participated, all 166 would get three.
If 249 participated, you would have a 75% chance of winning.
If 332 participated, you would have a 50/50 chance of winning.
I doubt that any more than 300 collectors would participate.
I am leaning more around 150 to 200.
These are good odds.

O-Ya. And if there was less than 166 participants it would go back around again where collectors would have another chance at three.


Besides the good will and excitement my proposal would create, it would bring in a lot of money in for the society membership. I feel many collectors let their membership laps and this would get many collectors to renew it.

If you believe in my proposal, chime in and say so. Remember this is not over until Nov 30th. Amendments can be made before that time.


DANIEL
Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73414 11/09/06 03:53 PM
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Daniel,

I'll participate if it happens but based on the replies from HL I'd say it doesn't look good for that possibillity.

I'd say they have already decided how they plan to do it and are unlikely to change the procedure.

Dennis

Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73415 11/09/06 03:56 PM
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I think I fit in the boat with the rest of the viewers here at the forums.....

If this is proposal is possible and it was implemented, I would be game and would support it as well!

Christopher


-Christopher
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Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73416 11/09/06 06:28 PM
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Bruce and Judy Offline
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Daniel,

Thanks for all the hard work and effort that you have extended in developing a very logical solution to help the average HL collector obtain a low number. Hopefully, HL will integrate your ideas into their existing plans.

You can count on Judy and I supporting and participating.

Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73417 11/10/06 01:18 AM
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Count me in.


Eric, Florida Keys Reef Lights Foundation; Godfather of Jones Point River Lighthouse; member and District Commissioner of Florida Lighthouse Association et el
Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73418 11/17/06 10:57 PM
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November 30th is fast approaching. Wonder if Harbour Lights (Tony) got any bids. It's going to be interesting to see if there was enough interested partys with deep pockets or if HL will have to go back to the drawing board and maybe even consider Daniel's proposal. I think if we get some positive reaction from Tony re: Daniel's proposal and forum members saw some hope there would be plenty more interest and willing participants.
HCS

Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73419 11/18/06 08:03 AM
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Too bad this could not be done through one dealer for those interested on the Forums. Even for just one number. Hold a chat with all those interested, and random drawing order( for example put all parties names in a hat and chose as your name is pulled, and after round one, put them all back and start round two, until everything is gone). Just my thought.


Jim
Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73420 11/18/06 10:19 AM
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Bob M Offline
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Quote:
It's going to be interesting to see if there was enough interested partys with deep pockets or if HL will have to go back to the drawing board and maybe even consider Daniel's proposal.
Maybe there is a Santa Claus! I had written the Founder's Collection off as far as my participation. Daniel's idea was an excellent one and he should be commended for all the work he did preparing it.

Dan, count me in if anything changes and your proposal gets considered.

smile Bob smile

Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73421 11/22/06 10:03 AM
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I haven’t heard anything so I am assuming that the Founder’s Collection is still being sold as planned. It would be nice that if someone with plenty of money would buy one set of numbers and would sell them for retail plus shipping on this forum. A nightly listing could be made for the lucky winners to purchase from the three sets that I talk about before. The Old ones, the new ones and the glow’s.

Why would anyone want to do this?

Well how I look at it. Lets say we are all playing a big monopoly game and us average collectors have a piece of property. Then we have players that control the board and own the majority. We have no hope of getting any more property because it is all bought up. One by one the rest of the players get board and quit. Then those that control the board have no one else. They just have themselves and no one else to play monopoly with. All the other players went off to play more exciting games and could care less about the old game and all their property.

Somebody got to keep the game going or we will all get bored and leave.


DANIEL
Re: Proposal for all collectors to have a chance at the Founder"s Collection #73422 12/01/06 02:10 PM
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catzb1 Offline
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Just wondering how the sales were for the Founders Collection? Any chance there are any leftover for anyone else to buy? I see that HL took the link off the website today. Anyone have any info?

Cathy


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