Founders Collection the final Chapter.

The founder’s collection and me, is like the spring peepers (frogs) during a heavy rain in the spring. It is impossible for it to happen without the spring peepers making a bunch of noise about it. In the past year I have watched many Harbour Light Historical events happen and kept quiet about it. Things like the Jordan Point, The discovery of the AP 458 West Quoddy and a reunion Cruise. But I kept quiet. Now the final release of the Founder’s collection and it wasn’t even talked about on this forum until three days after its announcement.

First of all I hit pay dirt and have received the Admiralty Head, Old Point Loma and the North Head. All of them being in brand new never displayed condition and they are all made in California. There goes the “Bill younger Theory” that the first ten of the early lighthouses were not kept. The reason I got these collectables was that I was working late and sitting right at my computer when I received the email announcement of the founder’s collection. I quickly returned the email with my list and in a few days Patti Sampson Customer Service Director called me to tell me my winnings.

There are a few things that I want to address about the Founders collection. I am Thankful that Bill Younger was perceptive enough to save the low numbers. Just think, here it is almost 20 years after Harbour Lights started and some of the single digit lighthouses of that first year were just offered for retail ($60). Yes it is true that none of the “Canadian made” were saved but that really isn’t the big picture for this collection. The main value of these collectables is the number. The same way an artist proof is valuable by the “AP” that is written on the flag not by where it was made. Don’t get me wrong it would have added to the value of the HL118 to HL138 if they were made in Canada. All I am saying is that it should not matter where the Lighthouses were made, it’s the number and if it happens to be made in California it just adds to the value.

My nexts comment will probably surprise many but it is something that I feel has been over looked. When we think of the Founders collection we think of Bill Younger. And oh Ya; Harbour Lights is helping distribute them. On this forum Don Devine has usually been associated as a businessman sometimes heartless and not as a fellow collector. Obviously Don is a good businessman or he wouldn’t have gotten where he is today. But what about the Don who is a collector and a Lighthouse lover. We just don’t hear about that Don. Well I don’t know about all of the business end of the founders collection ending up in West Kennebunk Maine, but it has to be very obvious to everyone that Don getting Harbour lights involved in selling the Founders collection is not what we would expect from a heartless businessman.
I would have to assume that the selling of the founder’s collection would have to hurt sales that would have normally gone to Harbour Lights and Don is helping out to keep some of the most valuable collectables alive by distributing to fellow collectors. This is truly an act of a dedicated collector and a lighthouse lover.

Okay how about the collectors. This is your last chance to purchase from the founders collection and it is being done just the way us collectors have asked for, for years. You look down the list and just order what you want and wait to see if it is available. First come first served. They will make good presents, great for fund raisers or just updating a few of your favorite lights with a neat number. It wouldn’t be a bad idea for some clubs or even this forum to purchase some. Why am I promoting this? I have been supporter of the founder’s collection for years to be preserved and distributed to collectors and not destroyed. Remember the old saying, “When they are gone, they are really gone.”

Daniel,
Like you, I was at my computer when the announcement came in about the Founders Collection, so I got right on it. I wasn't quite as lucky as you, but I did get the most important one to ME. I got the #3 Dry Tortugas. I would have been happy with any # of the ten, so I am VERY happy now. I also would say THANK YOU, Don Devine for getting these lights offered directly to the loyal collectors. How nice to have a few of these in one's collection! Daniel, it is good to see you posting again. I have been under the weather or I would have responded sooner!

Hopefully there will be one more "last call" after the recent last call to show what it finally left before the wrecking ball hits. Seeing what's left may cause me (and some others) to dig into our wallets a little further to save these wonderful items from destruction before the final bell rings.

Again, I'm very happy with the #4 Dry Tortugas, FL and a #4 Chicamacomico Lifesaving Station, NC that I received.

Oxymoron -- no more calls after that last one. What's left after the deadline will be destroyed one way or another.

Okay this where we are now with the Founder’s Collection. I went through the forum and found all of the founder’s collection that collectors have listed so far that they purchased. Hopefully I got them all. I went back to January 2008. If I missed yours or you haven’t posted yet please email me or post it on the forum and I will add it to the list.


HL# NO. LIGHTHOUSE MANUFACTURER

HL 101 #3 Admiralty Head-California
HL 103 #9 West Quoddy-California
HL 105 #6 Old Point Loma-California
HL 106 #3 North Head, California
HL 106 #4 North Head, California
HL 106 #7 North Head, California
HL 106 #9 North Head, California

HL 120 #7 Grosse Point, Malaysia
HL 121 #6 Marblehead, Malaysia
HL 121 #9 Marblehead, Malaysia
HL 122 #6 Buffalo NY, Malaysia
HL 122 #7 Buffalo NY, Malaysia
HL 123 #5 Michigan City, BW, Malaysian
HL 123 Michigan City #7, BW, Malaysia
HL 123 #9 Michigan City, BW, Malaysia
HL 123 #10 Michigan City, GW Canada
HL 124 #1 Split Rock MN (MN)
HL 124 #7 Split Rock MN (MN)
HL 124 #8 Split Rock MN (MN)
HL 125 #7 Portland Head, Malaysia
HL 125 #9 Portland Head, Malaysia
HL 126 #4 Nauset Beach, Malaysia
HL 126 #7 Nauset Beach, Malaysia
HL 128 #9 South East block island, Malaysia
HL 129 #8 New London Ledge, BW, Malaysia
HL 129 #9 New London Ledge, BW, Malaysia
HL 131 #9 Minot's Ledge, BW, Black Lantern Room, Malaysian,
HL 132 #6 Ponce de Leon, Malaysia
HL 132 #9 Ponce De Leon, Malaysia
HL 133 #3 Tybee Island, Malaysia
HL 134 #3 Key West Florida, Malaysian
HL 136 #6 Hilton Head
HL 136 #9 Hilton Head, Malaysia
HL 138 #9 St Augustine, Malaysia
HL 140 #7 Diamond Head
HL 141 #8 Cape Neddic
HL 144 #5 Heceta Head, Malaysia
HL 144 #7 Heceta Head, Malaysia
HL 145 #6 Assateaque, VA FIRST MOLD
HL 159 #5 Bodie Island
HL 159 #6 Bodie Island
HL 163 #005 Cape Canaveral, China
HL 163 #006 Cape Canaveral, China
HL 163 #007 Cape Canaveral
HL 163 #008 Cape Canaveral, China
HL 163 #0009 Cape Canaveral, China
HL 164 #5 Pemaquid, Malaysia
HL 164 #8 Pemaquid, Malaysia
HL 169 #8 Peggy’s Cove
HL 173 #8 Mantinicus, Malaysia
HL 180 #7 Drum Point
HL 180 #8 Drum Point
HL 188 #8 Beavertail, Gold Tower, China
HL 191 #8 Grand Traverse
HL 192 #8 La Jument
HL 192 #6 La Jument
HL 194 #6 Sanibel
HL 194 #8 Sanibel
HL 198 #6 Hook Head Ireland

HL 201 #3 Yaquina Bay OR
HL 201 #4 Yaquina Bay OR
HL 204 #5 Presque Isle PA
HL 205 #5 Horton Point NY
HL 212 #6 Grand Haven South Pier MI
HL 222 #7 Goat Island
HL 225 #6 Old Pt. Comfort
HL 226 #5 White River
HL 226 #9 White River
HL 228 #9 Big Sable
HL 228 #5 Big Sable
HL 230 #5 Hudson-Athens
HL 238 #3 Cape Disappointment WA
HL 238 #5 Cape Disappointment WA
HL 240 #7 Oak Island, China
HL 243 #4 Cape Henlopen DE, , China
HL 244 #6 Hillsboro Inlet
HL 244 #7 Hillsboro Inlet
HL 244 #9 Hillsboro Inlet
HL 252 #7 Sister Island
HL 261 #5 New Dungeness
HL 261 #6 New Dungeness
HL 262 #5 Long Beach Bar NY
HL 268 #9 Cedar Key
HL 271 #1 Rock of Ages
HL 271 #9 Rock of ages
HL 273 #6 Boon Is. Me;
HL 273 #9 Boon Island
HL 274 #4 Hendricks Head ME, China
HL 280 #7 Bullock's Point, China
HL 281 #3 Mayport Florida, China
HL 281 #4 Mayport Florida, China
HL 281 #7 Mayport Florida, China
HL 284 #7 Clark's Point, China
HL 286 #4 Chicamacomico Lifesaving Station, NC
HL 287 #3 Dry Tortogas
HL 287 #4 Dry Tortogas
HL 287 #7 Dry Tortogas
HL 287 #8 Dry Tortugas, China
HL 290 #3 Anclote Key, China,
HL 290 #6 Anclote Key
HL 290 #8 Anclote Key
HL 293 #10 Two Harbors "on Bay"
HL 299 #5 Point Reyes

HL 306 #9 Race Point
HL 308 #5 Northwest Passage
HL 312 #6 Alpena
HL 316 #7 Avery Point
HL 317 #5 Portland Head
HL 331 #4 Fowey Rocks, China
HL 331 #8 Fowey Rocks
HL 332 #9 Old Presque isle
HL 333 #9 Port Clinton
HL 336 #9 Mystic Seaport
HL 338 #5 Galveston Jetty
HL 338 #8 Galveston Jetty
HL 344 #9 Mobil Point
HL 345 #3 Gibbs Hill Bermuda
HL 346 #9 Grand Isle East Channel
HL 348 #5 Point Bonita CA
HL 349 #5 Seul Choix MI
HL 350 #9 Annisquam
HL 351 #9 Sodus Point
HL 352 #9 New London


HL 521 #3 Seven Foot Knoll
HL 524 #3 Baltimore
HL 605 # New Point Loma
HL 658 #2 4th Order Fresnel
HL 675 #2 Yorktown Lightship
HL 695 #6 Pharos of Alex

HL 701 #6 Christmas Colchester Reef Vt
HL 704 #6 1997 Christmas Replica white Shoal
HL 707 #6 1998 Christmas Old field Point
HL 708 #6 1999 Christmas East quoddy
HL 710 #6 2000 Christmas Hereford Inlet
HL 714 #6 2002 Christmas Crossover Is
HL 717 #6 2003 Christmas Straford Pt.
HL 719 #6 2004 Christmas Replica Bodie
HL 720 #6 2005 Christmas Replica Marquette
HL 722 #3 2007 Christmas Hospital Point

PC 101 #6 Portland Bill England
PC 105 #6 Ballinacourty Point

Here is another question pertaining to "no more last calls". What about the GLOWs why haven't they been offered? Are they still around or have they already been destroyed?

Daniel, I have number 3 Hospital Point.

Daniel,

I ordered two but haven't received them yet. I'll let you know when they arrive.

Judy

I've ordered 3. I'll let you know what numbers I got when they arrive.

Were GLOWs ever part of the founders collection? If they where what happened to them would be a good question.

The GLOWs were listed on the very first spread sheet that was avalible on the founders collection, but as far as I can remember they were not offered for sale.

Angels Gate
Got your Hospital Point listed.

I got Alki Point #7 today, nice piece, but looks huge compared to the society piece I recieved yesterday.

More on the Founders.

Okay we see the numbers with certain variations of lighthouses. Comparing the founder’s collection with its variations we can associate some of them to a production numbers.


What do we know so far about the founders?

1. We know that from HL101 to HL 106 of the first half of the year 1991 have been noted on this forum were made in California. From this information I think it would be save to assume that all of the first 6 of the founders collection where made in California and were number from the batch of first made lights. At this time no one on the forum has testified as purchasing a lighthouse from HL107 to HL 117. I personally feel they are California made but we have no proof at this time.


2. We know that all lighthouses from HL120 to HL 124 and HL 129 that were listed on this forum were made in Malaysia with out a lightning Rod. With this information I think it is save to assume that all of the founder’s collection from HL118 to HL124 was made in Malaysia without a lightning rod. This would cover the first half of the year 1992. This makes the founder’s collection the third group, which would correspond with lighthouse with the numbers from 1900 to 5500. The rest of the lighthouses for 1992 were Malaysian made and that would correspond to production number from 1800 to 5500. Now the #131 Minot's Ledge that Rich Felter got from the founders collection sheds more light on this subject. It is a, Blue Water, Green Roof, Black Lantern Room, Green Ladder, Black Water Line, Malaysian. This one corresponds with the production number of 1800 to 2800. This could put the founders toward the beginning of the Malaysian production or at the middle at the least not the end.


3.The third year (1993) was the southern bells and all of the founder’s collection that was posted on the forum was made in Malaysia. There was very few Southern Bells made in Canada, depending on the lighthouse it was around 100 to 700. So for this year the associated production numbers would have been 100/700 to 5500.


4. We know that the Assateague from the founder’s collection was type I from Shortcakes post. Since the type I was of the first issue of the Assateaque, corresponding numbers are 1 to 992. I think it would be save to assume that all of the founder’s collection around HL 145 was of the first batch. It also would make sense that all the lighthouses of that same production year would have been from the first batch. This would make HL139 Barnegat the first of the founder’s collection to revert back to being of the first batch and of course it would be green water.


5. Following on through we see that the HL181 beavertail is the tan version, which would also put this founders piece at the beginning of production. I would just assume that all of the rest of the years were also the same.


Summary:
In my opinion it looks as if the founders collection came from the first batch of all lighthouses for all of the years except for 1992 and 1993. Since we have no proof for the lighthouse for the last half of 1991 or do we know if they even exist there is no way to be sure. But if they exist, I feel that they would also be California made and of course coming from the first batch.

So what does this mean and why did it happen? Wasn’t the theory behind the founders collection that they where of all the first 10? Bill younger told me and others that the reason was that because of high demands that many of the founders was used up and later replaced at a later date. Well if more lighthouses were needed wouldn’t HL just order more and they would sell them when they came in? What would be the big hurry and so pressing that Bill would dip into his original stock. Well I think there is more to the story and here is my theory.

Even though the Canadian Made became one of the sought after Harbour Lights it definitely was not considered very highly in Bill Younger’s eyes. The Canadian plant had no quality control. HL would get lighthouses returned because of bad paint, send them to the plant and they would be returned back with the same sloppy paint, stating that they were repaired. Then there were the edges on the bottom that Canada could never bring the flocking out to the edges. As any “Made in Canada “ collector knows there was high damage because of this. Bill Younger even sent the Canadian Factory, Lamp Felt and the factory still cut the felt back form the edge. Yes; there would have been extras sent along for replacement pieces, but I would think these would have been used up and the Youngers needed more lighthouses.

I personally feel that since Bill Younger had no love for the Canadian made Lighthouses, that he donated his Founder’s collection as replacement pieces, to be restocked at a later date. Then why wasn’t the California Pieces used up for replacements? Two reasons, first of all these really was Bills first lighthouses. Second Bill loved the California made pieces and they were his favorite.

So what about the HL107 to HL117? Well they are missing in action. Are they buried somewhere in the warehouse or were they never replaced? Two of them are listed with the #1 group but none of the others have been listed.

Now about the years 1992 to 1993 when was the founders collection for these years, was it at the end of production, as some believe? In my opinion the founder’s collection took up where it left off as soon as HL caught up with the replacements. I feel that after production was switched back to Malaysia and as soon as sales would allow the 1 thru 10 was set-aside for the founders. The #131 Minot's Ledge that Rich Felter got from the founders collection proves that for at least for the Minot’s ledge the founders did not use the last version but the middle version of the Malaysian made Minot’s ledge. The first version of the Malaysian made Minot’s ledge was green water and it was the blue version that was issued for the Founders Collection.

I hope this post was fun to read and enlightening. Hopefully many took advantage of the last founder’s collection offer.

The reason was they were a new product on the market and they were trying to catch up with the demand and not lose stores and customers right off the bat.. They were already way behind in supplying product when they moved production to Canada and they never caught up until moving out of Canada..

I really don't believe it had anything to do with Bill liking or not liking Canadian produced lights but it was all about getting the product to the collector.. I will ask Bill the next time we talk which may even be yet today..

Paul Thanks for your Comments:

I agree that there was a big demand for Harbour lights at that time and maybe I didn’t word it right. All I was saying that I feel that it didn’t make sense to use the founders for filling dealer orders. Ten would not make much of a dent for meeting obligations to dealers and then HL would have to make sure Malaysia numbered the new issue properly allowing for the Ten. I know that HL had high recall for damaged Canadian pieces with poor paint jobs and nicked bases. That is the main reasons the production was shifted to Malaysia.

Also since production was stop in Canada it is also possible that the extras that were to be used for replacement were sent as numbered pieces like it was done with the original HL 102, the 16 extras was added to the production number making it 266 instead of 250. Again all of this adding to the stress of finding replacement pieces. I just felt that replacing damaged pieces with the founders made more sense than filling orders. I don’t know for sure and I did state this all was my opinion.

And when it comes to linking Bill with not liking Canadian Made. My remark was that “I personally feel that since Bill Younger had no love for the Canadian made Lighthouses, that he donated his Founder’s collection as replacement pieces, to be restocked at a later date”. What I meant by this was that in my opinion Bill probably had no attachment to these founders, there was very little quality control and there was no emotional bound for these. How could Bill have any attachment to The Canadian made, they gave Harbour Lights a lot of grief and set them back on filling orders.


What I like to do is to take all my information at hand and put it into something that ties everything together into packaged information. Everything I have stated is my opinion and I hope that I made that clear. It was hard trying to piece together something for the founder’s collection. I never had the luxury of being able to call Bill or Kim up to ask question. Harbour Lights didn’t keep records and much was lost to the HL computer crash of 2000 something and it is ashamed that we have to rely on each other’s memory.

Daniel I talked to Bill and told him I would send him a copy of this Forum and asked him if he cared to comment on the Founder's Collection. What follows is an email that Nancy sent me from Bill..

Paul
Thank you very much for sharing my post with Bill and posting his response.
It is so great to hear from Bill again. Maybe since Bill is no longer the owner of Harbour Lights he could bless us with some stories. It would really add to the forum and I would love to hear more about the early years at Harbour Lights. Maybe he could follow up on my posts (or I could call him) and make sure my posts are historically accurate.

I can’t argue with Bill saying that he loved the Candian made. It is like right from the man himself. I would also like to make two comments:

1. Yes I am a zealous collector of the founder's collection and with my research I did was to be fun and to bring some excitement to collecting the Founders collection. I was not trying to put words into Bills mouth and it was me just analyzing the situation with my opinion. If anyone took offence to this, I apologize.

2. I still think it is interesting that looking at the numbers above that the “Canadians made” was the only manufacturer that we know of, that the first was not part of the founder’s collection. The first of the California in 1991 (up to HL 106) was used. The Maylsaia made came to the bat in 1994 and it looks that first of them was used in the founder’s collection. It was only the years of the 1992 and 1993 (The years of the Canadian Made) that with my research shows that the founders were not taken from the first batch.

Last week I received the following:

#5 - North Head
#6 - Eagle Bluff
#10 - Sand Key

I already had these:
#4 - Georetown
#6 - Mayport
#7 - Drum Point
#9 - First Boston Harbor

I would keep buying a few each year if HL kept offering us the oppurtunity, but I guess this is it.

Mine arrived last week: #3 LA Harbor and #3 Haig Point. These are my lowest numbers.

Unfortunately I am at the point of no more display room! I really hate keeping them in boxes and not displaying all my lights.

Judy

My order also arrived last week, the day after the society pieces.

Concord Pt 186, #4
Bass Harbor 214, #7
and two New Dungeness 261, #4 & #7

I see at the at the Harbour Lights Bill signing event this weekend they will be giving away 25 Founder Collection pieces. I guess they did not destroy these pieces after all. Hmmm

They said at the time they were saving some for events.. I would imagine there will be some at the Reunion next year also.. Hmmm...

I hear a lot of "Hmmm.." going on!

I would bet besides the few that were saved, as indicated by Paul, that the rest of them were destroyed back in the Summer.

Personally, everyone had multiple opportunities within the past 4 years to purchase any of the lights from the Founders Collection.

If a few were saved for special events, that's "Great", then a few were saved from being destroyed. But other then that, so what, whats done is done.

On a brighter topic, where in the heck are those "special" West Quoddy GLOW pieces? You know which ones I am talking about..... I haven't heard a "Peep" from anyone regarding these for months.....

I was pleasanty surprised today to find a box containing 186 Concord Point, MD #5 on my front porch as a drawing winner for the recent in store event at LHD with Bill.

Nice surprise...My bride won a Cape May #8 that day. The Founder's Collection lives!

Bob

I received a #6 Chicago Harbor, IL from the drawing. A great surprise.