I've often pondered the thought about what HL Collectors did before they had a computer to turn to for HL information. Let's face it, being able to visit the Collector's Forum and the HL Web Site is a distinct advantage and a definite morale booster to HL Collectors.

I'm sure many of you collected HLs before you found the HLWS (HL web site) and the CF (Collector's Forums). I collected a total of "one " HL (Southeast Light, Block Island) before I found the HLWS and the CF. Now I'm only missing around 5 or 6 LEs. Basically this transpired over a 24 month period. I would say attending the 1998 HL Reunion was the turning point that pointed me in the direction of "getting them all".

It's been a tremendous experience hunting down missing HLs and adding them to my collection. I predict I'll have them all, with the exception of CH1 and Coquille River, before next Spring. In a way I'm going to miss the thrill of finding that special HL and buying it for a great price. It's been a real blast and I thank all of you that have helped me along the way.

I suppose I should be thankful that I'll only have to maintain my collection by adding the newer releases as they come out. It sure will be a lot cheaper and easier on the wallet.

I will continue to collect HLs for many years to come. It's been a truly enriching experience. I hope to enjoy many more years as a member of the Harbour Lights Family of Friends.

Do you have a related story about collecting HLs before you discovered the HLWS and the CF?

Bob

Can't remember which came first, the chicken or the egg. Just about the same time for me I guess.

Mombo

"OK Sherman, set the wayback machine to the year 1995, we're going to the pre-eWorld."

"Righto Mr. Peabody!"

Actually, the World Wide Web was in full swing in 1995, there just weren't as many people using it as there are now. On-line activities were starting to move off proprietary dial-up bulletin board systems (big ones like Compuserve, AOL, Prodigy, lots of independents) and on to the Internet. There was a smattering of nascent sites set-up by forward thinking dealers and a few entreprenuers where HL models could be found. Much of the activity was taking place in newsgroups such as the group of 'alt.collecting' sites.

During that time there were some HL models advertised for sale but nowhere near what there is today - and *no* auction sites like e-Bay. There was also very little information about the models. This was the year I started collecting. To find stuff about HL on the Web, you used the search engines and rooted around the newsgroups. Daily.

The Secondary Market was composed mostly of independent dealers. Some of these were the same dealers who had shops and sold LEs (such as Rhodas Collectibes, Someone Special, Yankee Craftsman, etc..) A few independents like Mike Richards and Tom Wahlberg advertised regularly in the newsgroups. Matt Rothman was a major dealer, but he wasn't on the Internet (at least not to my knowledge.) They were selling, but they also did a lot of buying, accumulating pieces that, while appreciating, would carry their businesses for several years. (To this day, Tom W. seems to have an endless supply of St. Augustines.)

For me, the biggest thing was the lack of information on what was rare and what was common, and most importantly, what should one be paying for a piece on the Secondary. (Thats why I built my spreadsheet - to try to *deduce* value in order to figure out what to buy next.) For a while I had heavy reliance on my local dealer to tell me when they heard of a piece about to retire.

In 1996 (JC, correct me if I'm off) -a group started forming on AOL to talk about Harbour Lights models and hold regular chats. John and Warren D. got into the Secondary Market and John started the Harbour Lights Collectors Information Center web site where their pieces were advertised. John also started putting up information about the models, as he/we learned new stuff about them. For the first time here was a place where you could see pictures of the two versions of Assateague - Wow! At that time, pricing was open. By looking at the ads on the newsgroups, on the AOL board, and on John's site, one could finally start to gather data about what pieces were selling for. (This is probably heresy, not meant in a negative way, but I've always thought the HLCIC was the best - even compared to what we have today.) In '96(??) Jim Rutherford (hlsg@aol.com)published his first annual edition of the Harbour Lights Survival Guide - this held a wealth of good info, but one only learnt the Guide through word of mouth.

The HL collecting community that formed through AOL during 95-97 is part of the early (and core) contributors to these forums. I joined AOL just so I could participate in the Lighthouse Collecting forum. (Back then I was a Compuserve geek, and the AOLers made fun of me for using smileys in my posts - something that wasn't much done on AOL.) Folks like Rick Mau, Paulie, Sean, Mark, Fred Kuhl, Rod, JC, John at Bayside, Mike R., etc. helped me learn alot. Our chats on AOL were just as lively and entertaining as they are today. (Remember the Hen House thread?) There was a continous process of discovery and each week some new fact or tidbit would come to light - much of which is now standard lore. It was exciting! For me personally this will always be 'The Golden Age' of HL collecting.

During the 97-98 time frame (again, someone check my dates) the Secondary Market started growing up on the Web. As more folks joined the hobby, prices started really escalating. Mike Richards started his site - which for a while was another major Secondary source and almost started to compete with the HLCIC. There was a period when these dealers either individually or collectively did what I consider a bad thing. They stopped publishing their prices. You could e-mail for a price, but no longer were these sites an easy sources for tracking the market. One of the last sites to post prices (Joe's Lighthouse Page)became less active.

In '98(?), AOL made the stupid mistake of banning 'free' ads in their forums (so they could charge for them) and this really got the dander up of the HL group there. We talked about forming a regular Internet newsgroup. On his own, JC found the UBB software we're using today and installed it on his HLCIC site. This was in, uh, er, around May of 1998?? (help!) On August 30, 1998 Rod Watson posted msg. #1000 Msg1K and we were off and running. Gradually folks were weaned away from the AOL board - it still exists, and occasionally chats are still held there - but its never risen again to its heyday.

Harbour Lights recognized the quality of John's HLCIC and it was converted from a private to their Corporate site. The Forums remain to this day a seperate entity (not affiliated yadda yadda...).

Folks, I don't wanna go into one of those 'well when I was young we walked forty miles to school in deep snow' rants, but for you newbs - you got no idea how good things are today in terms of information on pieces and prices. The growth of HL collecting and information about it on the Web is something of a microcosm of the growth of the Web itself. There's a master's thesis somewhere in that tidbit if someone wants to grab it.

Well I've rambled on enuf for now. Hopefully this gives a teeny bit of insight to the world before what Bob referred to as HLWS. As for me, I'm still collectin', and still havin' fun! Thanks to all the friends I've made while enjoying this wonderful wacky hobby! Hopefully some of the old-timers will toss in their remembrances and add or correct this account.

Rgds from the History Channel,
__
/im


Sidebar: I was tickled to find Joe's Lighthouse Page is still on-line (now re-named). You should give it some hits, by taking a look: members.aol.com/houselite/index.htm . Looks like the last update was with Navesink - its kinda like stepping back in time. Still shows pricing from the period when it was active - click on the 'About' link to see a little history. Kudos Joe Szarmach for still having your site!
[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 09-21-99).]

Forgot one blip on the timeline, Tim.

Somewhere along the line in '97?, (while the AOL chats were in full bloom, and before John's creation of the Forums) Nico Derks had a forum set up for "lighthouse" discussions on the WWW. Soon the HL "Nuts" (precursor to Wackodom) kind of took over the forums with questions & comments concerning Harbour Lights, as well as many pieces being offered for sale. The AOLer's started meeting the WWWer's...and it was good.

As time rolled on, John requested for Nico to break the forums up into 2 sections; one for "real" lighthouses, and one for Harbour Lights. Soon the whole concept for a sucessful HL specific forum site was really working well. There was at least 1-5 posts per day at it's prime (if memory serves me right). It was around that time that John came up with the splendid idea of a totally HL Forum site, with all the various sub-sections, etc. Nico's forums' at the time were quite antiquated compared to the Ultimate Bulletin Board system used here, and occasionally had it's glitches.

Of course, the new Forums were an immediate success, 90% of the HL Nuts bolted, and Nico's board greatly slowed down to a crawl afterwards.

-another submission from the memory department of the HLmmmGOOD.

---

Rod Watson
_{[This message has been edited by Rod Watson (edited 09-21-99).]}

Wow, Tim...

...Thanks for that walk down memory lane. Somewhere tucked into one of these 703 Bankers Boxes that own my office are some old chat logs from the AOL chat days.

Here's a few other 'oldies' participants in the AOL "Lighthouse Collectibles" Board: George Kirk (CaptKirk), Bob Hayes (RedFoxDoc), Chuck Cassidy (KINGCRIB) Yvonne (Oriental77), LadyKeeper (Nancy Tardio), Sara Morton (SMorton102), 'Twiggy' Holmes (Twiggy4) and of course those with us still - Sean Thompson (BuyGlass), Tim Aucremann (JTimothyA), GloStan (Stan & Gloria), Paul Brady (Engbrady), Fred Kuhlman, Bob Mckeon (BIRI97), Jim Johnston (KeeperJJ), and others - please forgive me if I've forgotten to include you in this list.

I started collecting in August 96 - and a couple of months later signed up for AOL - I had been paying Compuserve their monthly dues for years and the graphics of AOL and my (then) Macintosh were attractive. (I also subscribed to Apple's ill-fated "e-world".)

Shortly I discovered there was a Lighthouse Collectibles bulletin board and my collecting took off. The fact that there were other collectors out there who were as fanatical about these lighthouse sculptures was re-assuring (that I wasn't the only one) which justified the "Buy Them All" mentality.

And I made a lot of nice friends out of the AOL board and from the HLCIC. After the HLCIC was running (Feb 97), I made an appointment with the Youngers to drive over to San Diego and show them what I had done - but a health problem in the last minute, prevented my making the trip and meeting with them.

I'm still as excited about the latest lighthouses as I was in late 1996. And the Internet and AOL have changed the way many people collect. Before it was news once a quarter in the form of the Lighthouse Legacy. Now, hundreds of people know the news every day -- and share news about collecting. Like Fred finding the Gray's Harbor variation. That sent 20+ people out looking at dealers' stock around the country. Pre-Internet, that wouldn't have happened. Or Richard Hetzler whose wife spotted the misspelling on "Mulkilteo". And two of our regulars found one - actually one of them found TWO.

As always, sharing and the friendly spirit among Harbour Lights collectors including those on and off the Internet is the greatest reward.

Neither the web site nor these forums would be possible without the help of many, many people, a few of whom I named above.

Ride on!

0 :>) St. John of the Internet

Thanks for the reminder, Rod, about Nico's board. You're right - back when it started it was not as sophisticated, but has since started using the same forum software as we have here. Check it out at:
http://www.worldlights.com/world/forum/Ultimate.cgi

Hey John I've also got chat logs from AOL. As a teaser, here's a message you posted. From the AOL board...


Subj: Tonight's NEW Chat
Date: 97-03-12 19:51:53 EST
From: Chidester

To get to tonights' Harbour Lights Chat follow these easy steps (Starts at 8 pm ET)

1. From WINDOW, select CHANNELS
2. Click on PEOPLE CONNECTION
3. Click on the little button LIST ROOMS
4. Click on PRIVATE CHAT ROOM
5. Type in HARBOURLIGHTS

You're IN! Don't be shy -join us.

John

(folks, this a museum piece, not a set of real instructions )

And even back then, we've loved our polls... here's one from another member of the 'HL Rat Pack.'

Subj: Top Ten List Results
Date: 97-03-10 18:24:42 EST
From: BuyGlass

30 Bulletin Board Members Participated in the Survey.
67 Different Lighthouses were Nominated as Top 10 Favorites.

1. Thomas Point (24 votes)
2. S.E. Block Island (18 votes)
3. St. Augustine (14 votes)
4. Cape Canaveral (12 votes)
5. Alcatraz (11 votes)
6. Point Fermin (10 votes)
7. Saugerties (10 votes)
8. Assateague (10 votes)
9. Pemaquid (10 votes)
10. Big Bay Point (9 votes)

And if you're really wacko, here's a pointer to an old AOL chat log from August 1997. The First Reunion was over and we're trying to guess where the next one will be. He may not remember it, but someone you're know well guessed correctly! AOL Chat Log


Rgds,
__
/im
[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 09-22-99).]

Thanks, Tim for the old log. Those were heady days - trying to figure out where the Runion was going to be held -- and when. Paul suggested several times that it was going to be in Providence. The company that owns his WISH-TV8 is based out of there so he knew it had plenty of hotel space.

I used the AAA Map & Go to find cities that had 200+ room hotels and made three calls to the hotel's 'sales department' (They handle meetings and catering).

"I'm looking to rent a suite in conjunction with the Harbour Lights reunion this fall," I'd say. Third time was a charm. "Oh, Yes, in October....".

Paul filled in some of my memory cells on other past participants in the AOL board and chats in the 'old days'

Hal Dean (HAL32), Mark Wagner (SLUGO35), Rick Mau (RickM18), Rick Kreiner (Rdkreiner), and Mike Richards (Miker1121)

I'm sure more will come to mind, if you were there in those old days, by all means add your name to the list too.

I remember it well Tim. I kept the logs (for a year or so) and group e-mailed them to AOLer's that wanted to be kept up to date on the chats. I reminded everybody when it became official and re-sent that log. I hope to do as well on the next reunion location, Grand Traverse. Actually, I really would like to do that well in the lottery.

engbrady@aol.com (not active), engbrady@iquest.net, HoosierLH@aol.com, WacoPaul@aol.com, Saint WackoPaul and last but not least:

Paul L Brady

Saint WackoPaul'
Keep the Flame

Hey Guys,
This post is really neat. I wasn't part of the early days, but this sort of takes us all back to our roots. I don't know much about bulletin boards & forums, but I wonder how many have the history, traceabilty, and its founding fathers that ours has.
Thanks,
George

I bought my computer (Eddie - it's an e-machine)on January 21, 1999, and I found ebay one week later and saw and bought my first Harbour Light. The rest is history.

Joanne

Reading this post brings back alot of fond memories from my early days of collecting. I bought my first HL in Sept. 96. I didn't know much about the internet sites until I had the pleasure of sitting next to Rick and Linda Mau at the first reunion in San Diego. He first told me about the aol board and John's site. It was exciting to read John's site and get new information updates each week. I still read the HL site each week and still enjoy the comments and new info. Thanks John for all the help in getting us to where we are today from your early beginnings.

As I read Tim's post, it reminded me of the "Hen House", and got me thinking. With the number of people we've had on the Internet over the years, and the many different ideas - we had had very few family squabbles. We all seem to get along pretty well and respect each others opinions even though we may not agree. I think that harbour light Collectors are one of the most unique groups I have belonged to and my hat's off to you all. And especially to John caught in the middle. I will say one thing though- it isn't as much fun looking the latest scoop as it was on AOL.

The Shadow (Lou)

Incidently John, the current chat room is still the same one you set up. Only now I just zap the link to anybody interested. And, like always, I agree with Lou. Finding out what HL was planning to do or were in the process of implementing was a lot more fun in the old days. Viva La Providence, one of the greatest pieces of detective work and logical deduction.

And Tim, I only walked 10 miles to school through the snow back in Iowa when I was a kid. We couldn't afford shoes so we were barefooted. On icy days we would wrap our feet with barbed wire to keep from slipping.

The Ancient Mariner (Fred)


[This message has been edited by FredKuhl (edited 10-03-99).]

Geez, I feel left out! All I did before the computer was push a cart through the plague-strewn streets of the village and had people throw dead bodies to me. For the longest time everyone thought my name was "Bring Out Your Dead"! Thanks to the computer-age now I can have them email me their location for easy pick-up.


Digger

Actually you folks have brought back some great memories. When we think about all the research we did using the search engines to find anything Harbour Lights. (Nico's BB was great!) And did we have the comparative data bases. It is kind of frightening to think of all the work we did to find out what the market was doing.

Actually, we think it sometimes made the find even sweeter because we had to do so much to search them out. The weekends where we took the HL list (the list of dealers wasn't as long in 94 as it is now) and went from shop to shop, just hoping there might be a find to be had. The dealer list was in both cars, just in case. It was great fun and we met a lot a nice people. We would like to think that we may have turned a few of you newer folks onto HL as our attitudes were definitely infectious and many of the non-HL folks we told about them when in the stores and at the reunions, said they were going to start collecting. And we all know . . . all it takes is one and you're hooked.


We remember a couple at the Reunion in San Diego who stopped us at about 2am to ask us what this HL thing was all about. Little did we know that Kim Andrews was just around the corner listening to us go on and on. She said she couldn't believe how infectious our attitude was. I wonder if those folks are part of our group. (But then there we go off the track again.)


We knew there were a few more of us out there, but that wasn't all that important as the fairy dust that Bill sprinkled on the first piece, St. Augustine (that Michael gave me as my wedding gift), pushed us on to more and more HL's. We were so hooked after that first piece. Can you imagine having the wacko disease and thinking you might be the only ones!

We were very fortunate to have a few secondary dealers who would put up with our MANY inquiries. We will forever be indebted to Bruce Roberts for putting up with all of our questions. He is an extremely nice man who goes way out of his way to help.

We are probably going to get some flack on this one, but we remember the first time we met John Chidester at the San Diego reunion and we both swore he was a used car salesman. Sorry John, it must have been someone out of our past's that made us think that. We came to find out what a really genuine and honest person you are. We remember inquiring of you a few times and wondering if you were giving us the straight story. We have never told you that, but it's funny how we get certain thoughts that take a lot to get rid of. We apologize.

It was fun in the good old days, not really before computers, cause we were on the net (due to our businesses) before the first HL was made, but bf (that's Before Forum). You newer folks are really lucky to have this kind of source and we get to enjoy it also.

Michael and Karen




[This message has been edited by Michael and Karen Power (edited 10-04-99).]

At the first reunion, I was a 'Used Harbour Lights salesperson' You remember that display case with 5 - count 'em 5 - Coquille River pieces?

I'm pretty sure you always got the straight story from me; I only shade the truth 5% of the time. LOL.

No apologies necessary - but accepted since you offered.

0 :>) St. John of the Internet