Our guest of honor at the Desert Lighthousekeepers Club meeting yesterday dropped a bit of news.

From this point forward, GLOWs will be lighted -- and past GLOWs may be redone to include lighting as well [probably as the current inventories are sold down - my guess.]

John...will the new lighted GLOW's have any impact on the Guardians of the Night?

Do many people collect the Guardians of the Night? How well do they sell?

I asked Bill about the Guardians of the night at the boat trip to Anoclote Key light.
He said they were doing quite well.
That my be why they are going to light up the glows

So the new GLOW's will actually glow, interesting.

I think I will maintain my current course of just purchasing the limited editions.

Bob

be interesting to see how values of a GLOW without the lit light does compared to the same GLOW with a lit light. Saying lit light ten times fast is quite an experience too.

Once a GLOW, always a GLOW, whether it lites up or does not light up. I'm with you Bob, only the limited editions will grace my shelves.

My understanding is that the glows will follow the same suit as Minot's Ledge, and flash the same nautical address as the actual light.

It'll be interesting to see if they will be set up to receive an A/C adapter.....

Having a GLOW that illuminates presents some display difficulties to collectors, if you plan to "light up":

A. Three words: Batteries, batteries, batteries.

B. If A/C Adapters are available, that would be an additional expense beyond the price of the GLOW itself. Then what do you do with the electrical cords if you display your GLOW's in a curio or similar cabinet?

Just food for thought, kids!

Bob

I guess we can always wrap the cord into a small bundle and tie it together and place it behind the lighthouse when displaying it in a curio. that's what I ended up doing with Minot's Ledge

I suspect the lights will be like the setup for Strafford Shoals 2003 Christmas. Battery compartments and plug for an optional AC adapter. The AC adapter is $5 additional.

And as Jim noted above, each GLOW will have the flash pattern of the lighthouse.

Nancy left the club a Stratford Shoal Christmas light -- one she says she 'stole' from Harry since none have shipped yet. We'll be including it in a drawing to be held at our Christmas Party coming up before the end of the year.

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: the lighting was an OK (ONLY OK) concept AT FIRST, but now they're overdoing it and truthfully, I find it to be quite tacky. Such a pity that they're doing that to the GLOW, I liked them, too....oh, well.

This is what’s going on.
Basically all the popular Glows have been made.
The glows are now starting to face the problem that has all ready effected the Limited Edition models.
All the poplar lights have been made. (Yes there are a few like Ocracoke left, but HL is basically running out of the big sellers for the GLOWs)
The money is in staying with the same first 50 or so popular lighthouses and keep redesigning the same lighthouse every couple of years. For Harbour lights to make the money they have to keep punching out new models every year. There is no money with issuing the same glow each year and putting a different letter on it. It doesn’t take long until it reaches it saturation point.

First came the L.E.
Then the glow
Then the ornaments
Then the revised GLOWs
Then the Spyglasses
Then Special limited edition event pieces of lighthouses all ready done.
Then the LLOM
Then the Guardian of the night.
Now it is the revised Glow with light.

What the lighting up does, it gives HL the opportunity to reissue another whole line of the same Lighthouses.

My first Harbour Lights purchase was a GLOW in 1998 (Split Rock). It was before I knew anything about the line. Since then, I have only purchased a couple more.

I know that I'm in the minority here. But I will probably purchase a couple of the lighted GLOWs. I just bought some new shelves to display my lighted haunted houses for Halloween. I was wondering what I would put there after Halloween was over. The haunted houses look cool lit up when all the lights are off. The nice thing about the Halloween display is that I have an excuse not to dust.

I also have a corner desk and hutch in my den. I have 3 Christmas lighthouses that I purchased from Menards. Because of the design of the hutch, all of the cords are hidden, and you can only seen the lighthouses. The cords drop behind the hutch, and they're up high enough that you can't see the dust. I have them plugged into a surge protector so that I can easily turn them on at once. I have been too lazy to put them away after Christmas. When we entertain, kids seem in awe of the lighthouses flashing in the dark. I may consider replacing these lighthouses with lighted GLOWS of real lighthouses.

My first priority will be to purchase new limited editions that I like... They also get the best shelf space in the house.

Tammy

Harbour Lights didn't make it this far having to make excuses for what they offer. They're survivors above and beyond the other collectible manufacturers that went "belly-up". They have always been willing to take chances. Some of those paid off while others fell by the side of the road.

GLOW's are every bit as beautiful as their limted editions. They are a very collectible item. The only downside is they will probably never increase in value like a limited edition might. Right now the limted editions aren't increasing in value either.

I do not buy GLOW's anymore. Just buying limited editions and trying to find enough space for them is all I can handle. Will I ever buy another GLOW? Actually I'm thinking of buying the Nauset Light GLOW because it is one of my favorite lights. I just haven't seen one in person yet to make sure I really want it.

Bob

You are absolutely correct.Except for a handful of earlier LE's, you can buy just about any LE for less than retail on the secondary market. I kind of like the light-up idea.

okay, I'll be the one: if the limited editions were reissued lit up, would people purchase them?

I like the light-up idea too. I won't buy all of them, but I'll certainly buy some. I've never looked at the GLOWS as being the "evil step child" anyway.

They definitely have and will continue to have a place in my collection.

Nauset Beach is AWESOME! I kinda wish it was lighted as well. I wasn't going to buy it, until I saw one in person. The detail is supurb, and how could you resist the little pumpkins!

Judy

I side with the people who say a GLOW is a GLOW no matter how you package it. This year I came to the conclusion that I will not longer be purchasing GLOWS, and just stick to the LE's. I had all of mine displayed in my office at work, and I've started boxing them up and giving them to my sister as presents. Even if I hadn't made that decison before, this would have made up my mind. In fact this may even make me think about collecting the LE's, or Harbour lights altogether.

With so many different ways to do the same lighthouse I think it actually makes collecting less fun since the pieces aren't unique anymore. When there was only LE's it was special to get each piece because it was sort of one of a kind and all that was out there for competition was Leftons which were of lesser quality. Now you have LE's, GLOWS, and Little LIghts, and there is numerous options for each one, such as Hatteras. In fact the Little Lights have lighthouses that have not been produced as an LE, and thus actually are more varied than the LEs. My original excitement with collecting the LE's was to get things that were special, well done, and unique, not because the were limited editions. I enjoyed the lighthouses, because I enjoy lighthouses, not because they were one of a kind, and the fact that they could be hard to get, and possibly increase in value was a nice incentive to get them all. Couldn't miss out on something that others may not have, or there were only a few of.

However, I starting to rethink lighthouse collecting. Maybe I should consider just collecting the Little Lights, and box up the LE's for sale in the future when the price comes back (if it ever does). With the LLOM I get pieces with good quality, more selection than the LE's, lower cost, they take up less space, and I still get lighthouses I can enjoy looking at. They don't have the level of detail the LEs have, but I'm sure I will keep some of the special LE's out, and use the two free curios for other things.

At some level I almost feel like HL has abandoned me as a lighthouse collector and is going for the money. It almost looks to me as they are trying to saturate the market with the same lighthouses redone all different ways. I sort of feel this saturation is taking away some of the specialness of lighthouse collecting. There is a difference in doing something new (lighted pieces, metal structures, pieces that open, tops that come off to show the inside, lightships, lenses, etc.) and just doing the same thing over in a different size, like a half dozen Cape Hatteras'. At least the first of a kind pieces with new technology (Thomas Point, Sanibel, Turkey Point, Minots ledge lighted, Eddystone, Stratford Point, etc.) were designs that gave use something new in a new piece, not something new in the same piece that has already been done. One might just get into the mindset of waiting to get something since it really isn't special, and since it isn't limited there is no rush to get it Why get a Cape Hatteras #102, when I can wait for a #632 that has more detail and actually is better proportioned. Is the #102 really more valuable, or am I looking for a good example of a Cape Hatteras to enjoy?

I would caution HL to be careful of their direction, and focus on the hardcore collectors that built the company. Quick math says that by one user, like myself, deciding to not buy GLOWS, and maybe some LE's, because I've lost the excitement I once had to "get them all", will reduce HL income by upwards of $600 a year. Multiply that by other users that may make the same decision and it starts to add up. Add that to the fact that you don't bring in new hard core collectors by giving them a reason to collect (ie. something special and unique), you you start to see sales slow, and start having a cashflow problem.

Bottom line I think HL is making a mistake in just redoing pieces with a new twist. Keep the older pieces alone, make the new pieces special, even though they may not be the most common. Add foreign pieces with new technology, add less know pieces with some uniqueness that makes them desireable. I think that by trying to be everything to everybody you dilute the product. You may gain tourist trade by selling them $15 giftware lighthouses, but you will start to lose true collectors, because instead of having a collection of special LE's that are losing value, people will just start getting something else that they like, or just get a few selected pieces and will lose the drive for collecting HLs. I hope that I am wrong, but I have seen this pattern in other companies, and in most cases it ends up with the company going out of business. The bright side to that scenario is that now the pieces are truely limited, and may rise in value again after a period of time. If you need to expand move into some other areas that don't diminish the collectablity of the line, and give the collector more options for collection, not more variations of the same thing.

I'm not a spokesperson for Harbour Lights, although I do receive compensation from them for my role as Webmaster of the website.

I'm certainly not privy to any financial information about this privately-owned company.

Nancy Younger was in town Sunday and we enjoyed a very candid story about the early days of the company -- both before and since 'Harbour Lights'.

As many of you know, they operated out of a two-car garage, converted to office space for a number of years and Bill and Nancy (later Nancy alone) would traverse the 11 Western states calling on David Winter dealers (and prospective dealers) during a 5,000 mile quarterly trip.

Lighthouses offered a new idea in the late 1980s and I doubt that they envisioned a day when there weren't any more (significant) ones to make.

But GLOWs provided an answer to the arising question in the mid-1990s of "What do we do when the best-known lighthouses have already been made and retired."

I don't have any way of confirming this, but it's my guess that GLOWs and Little Lights have kept this company in a comparatively strong financial condition, enabling it to survive tough economic times (for collectible stores and manufacturers) while their core product line potential would have otherwise gotten significantly smaller.

GLOWs and Little Lights and Guardians fill different niches than do the limited editions. I doubt that the Younger Family ever thought that the 'hard core' Harbour Lights limited edition collectors would become avid collectors of these alternative products (Or Sky-Bound balloons.)

But I think that they believed the tourist and locals around the better-known lighthouses would be potential purchasers for these lines.

As we've discussed in the past, the local and/or tourist market made up some percentage of LE buyers in the past. This group is unaware of the appreciated value of what they have and so the number of potential pieces available to the 'serious collector' is reduced. At least this was so in the past.

But with the option of GLOWs, LLOM, and Guardians, some of this local/tourist market is satisfied and no longer competes with LE collectors, making more of an LE edition available to the 'serious collectors'

For the LE collector, Harbour Lights has kept prices lower this year, reduced edition sizes to nothing over 5,500 pieces (including Christmas at 5,000).

Again, I'm not privy to the decision-making process, but I certainly believe that they are trying very hard to balance the need to survive with the necessary actions to keep their base of lighthouse collectors satisfied and happy.

From all that I've heard, the Sky-Bound Balloons products are doing very well. For those of us who love LE lighthouses this is good news.

Dick mentioned that a number of LLOM have been made that have not been made as LEs. This is primarily because the cost of sculpting and getting these pieces into production is much less than the similar start-up costs for an LE. HL can take a chance and provide a product that potentially has a smaller market with this product line.

The Guardian line is clearly an attempt to fulfill the needs of collectors of the defunct Lefton line of ceramic lighthosues. ("Left In The Dark?")

There's some folly to your math...if I, as another user, decide with excitement to spend $600 + on GLOWS to add to my Harbour Lights collection...then...I've cancelled you out.

Judy

On a recent visit to a dealer in my area I noticed that the Harbour Lights line had been discounted by 50%. On asking the owner about this she stated.......

"The general public just does not buy them.We only order for our autoship customers or on request"

Nothing is as constant as change. A business must diversify while maintaing quality or fail. Cudos to Harbour Lights for being smart enough to diversify while still offering products of high quality.

Smart marketing not only by Harbour Lights reps but the dealers as well is needed.For example, putting HL LE's and Glows on the same shelf space mixed with the the balloons just does'nt cut it.

My two cents worth is this. Everybody should know by now how I feel about GLOWS so there is no use rehashing my feelings. I talked to a long time dealer in Jacksonville (FL) yesterday and he is discounting his LE lights at 25% because he says the sales are down and we wants to clear out inventory. He has also stopped autoship and will only special order except for Florida pieces that he will automatically order. He blames it all on overproduction and GLOWS. How many dealers have we seen stop carrying the HL line in just the past year? Why is this happening? Has HL ever thought to call the dealers that have dropped the line or call dealers that have stopped autoship or even called the dealers still handling the line to ask questions. I am not privy to that information but I sure would like to hear if they have.

People are entitled to manage their collection as they see fit due to money, space or interest limitations. However, the collector that is hardcore (I'm one of those having all the LE and only 3 GLOWS that are special to me) are sick at what's happening to our beloved line. The thought is "all the popular lights have been made " and now what do we do? MAKE THE LESS POPULAR LIGHT AND MAYBE IT WILL BECOME MORE POPULAR WHEN SOMEONE KNOWS ABOUT IT. I know as a hard core collector I will buy it. Just don't make it in more then 4000 pieces and it will probably sell out over a normal 2-3 year period. This will satisfy the hardcore collector and the rest of the people can do their own thing with the GLOWS, LLOM, Guardians, etc. The only thing that I will caution is if something isn't done for the hardcore collector (I'm planning on stopping my collection in about 2 years when I retire if I don't like what I see) Harbour lights will surly drop more sales until they are at the point of Lefton or Cheryl Spencer Colins because the tourists, ocasional gift buyers and part time collectors will not spend enough to keep them alive.

I'm just curious and am not posting this to make anyone angry. I've been hearing this self-titled description of "I'm a hardcore HL collector" tossed around for a long time, and I have to ask the question.

For the Harbour Lights Collectors who preface their definition of themselves as "hardcore", what is their definition of "hardcore", and why do they feel they are superior to other HL collectors?

Life is short. Collecting Harbour Lights should be for the pure enjoyment of collecting them. However, I do realize that the nature of some people is that they derive their enjoyment from analyzing.

Also, until one knows the exact reason a dealer has elected to drop certain lines, making judgements is not fair to Harbour Lights. A dealer may simply have "sour grapes" because of a perceived problem that may have actually been from their own doing.

This all posted IMHO!

Judy

Thanks for those comments about dealers 'souring' on Harbour Lights. It could be a lot of factors, none of which might be HL's fault. Poor local economics, poor past customer service that drove key customers away, poor marketing, poor displays, poor management, etc, etc.

As for 'Hard Core' I think it's a term we apply to ourselves when we feel an especially strong connection to the product.

It's not meant to make one 'better than' other collectors. Perhaps it is meant to indicate that the loss of the product line or a self-imposed decision to stop collecting would have a greater impact on the 'hard core' collector than on a 'casual' collector or a local or tourist.

What do other 'Hard Core Collectors" think?

Well, we could always start a new LH replica company...
Behy Beacons?...no...
Sounde Sentinels?...don't think so...

Yep...nothing can replace HL's...but this may change if the path they take is to just produce open editions that are higher quality than the LEs.

Hey, now that GLOWs glow, what do we call them?

As I said in my previous post, I am a hard core collector. I only collect one item: Harbour Lights limited editions, but, I have them all. I decided when I started collecting Harbour Lights that I would buy all the limited editions put out so I could have the entire line. There were a lot of sacrifices on my part to get the early limited editions that were already retired when I started in 1994 and a lot of planning was put into my plan to keep up with the current releases while, one by one, buying the more expensive early retired pieces. When a person spends between $1000.00 and $2000.00 a year, depending on the amount of LE put out, you are a hard core collector. There is no other reason behind spending this money except to be hard core and a true lover of lighthouses. Bill asked me years ago "what would I do if Harbour Lights lighthouses never increased in value? Would I still be happy with my collection". I told him yes because my years in the Coast Guard made lighthouses special to me. I still feel that way, but, I'm not happy with the direction I see Harbour Lights taking and when it's not fun to collect anymore, then it's time to get out or just shut up. I'm not the kind of person to shut up after being in the Coast Guard for 23 years and now a first line supervisor with a aerospace company, so, I have decided to stop collecting at the time I retire if things do not change. I will then become a part time buyer (Florida Lights, Christmas Pieces and Society Pieces) and will sit back and enjoy my collection and visiting lighthouses. A hard core collector does not think he/she is superior or better then the occasional buyer, but, at least I feel that I should not be left out because there are no more important lighthouse to sculpt.

In the case of GLOWS, Guardians and LLOM, while I have no interest in them, they do have a place in the overall realm of things. They are available for the hard core collector that is starting out now and cannot afford to buy retired limited editions, or the occasional gift for relatives, friends, etc. and for the collectors on limited budgets or with limited space.

I do not mean to insult anybody or to imply that I am better then other collectors. I am only saying that myself and others like me helped to make Harbour Lights a success and it seems that Harbour Lights is getting away from their roots that made them a success, the limited edition. The only thing that I hope is that Harbour Lights does not start resculpting their limited edition line to help sales. The limited editions are just that, Limited Editions.

Rich explains in a post above...
I don't fit any of that, so maybe we need to add yet another circumstance. I have been collecting LE's also since '94, and worked hard & made sacrifices to fill in my collection. I also deeply love lighthouses and work to preserve them. So far...that fits the "definition" of a hardcore collector.

I can afford to buy the LE's and do. I'm hardly an occasional buyer, and even if I bought none, I'm still a true lover of lighthouses.

However, I also choose to buy GLOWS..at least the ones I'm interested in, which seem to be escalating.

So now the question is...do you consider me to also be a "hardcore" collector, or does it disqualify me because I also buy GLOWS?

The reason for the question is simple. Time after time, I see posts made by collectors who use the word "hardcore". They seem to take the stand of setting themselves apart from those HL collectors who purchase GLOWS.

So...I'm just trying to clarify what exactly is meant by a HL "hardcore" collector.

Judy

Judy,

IMHO Hardcore is in the eyes of the beholder. I only collect the New England lighthouses that HL makes. But I do have 45+ others that I like or they were gifts from HL for belonging, etc. I also have every GLOW of New England lighthouses that HL made. I consider myself "HARDCORE NEW ENGLAND". I would conisder Rich and BOBM "HARDCORE ALL OF THEM." Hardcore will mean different things to different people. This discusion could go on forever with no definitive answer!

LOL

Bert

Thanks Bert for your input. Hardcore, like beauty, is in the eyes of the beholder so to speak. You are a "hardcore New England collector" and Judy is a "hardcore" collector of her own choosing. I was simply stating that HL, IN MY EYES, is getting away from their roots and this could be their downfall. Reproducing repeats of repeats of GLOWS may not be the way to go in my opinion, but, it is HLs choice to make them and it is my choice not to buy them. It is only my choice and may not be everyone elses choice. So be it. I just don't want to see repeats of LE because it will then be my choice not to buy them also and I will hate to give up my collecting days.

"Thanks for those comments about dealers 'souring' on Harbour Lights. It could be a lot of factors, none of which might be HL's fault. Poor local economics, poor past customer service that drove key customers away, poor marketing, poor displays, poor management, etc, etc."
If this is indeed the dealer that I think it is from Lonnie's comments, I can tell you that not a single one of these factors applies to this dealer. This is a dealer who has sold Harbour Lights from the first year, has the best customer service that you could ever ask for, has great marketing, great displays and super management. What they haven't had is a HL Rep for more than 3 months in the past 3 or 4 years, any consistant flow of information from HL, other than what some customers give them and what they have is a lot of product which isn't selling. There is a reason that a very large number of HL dealers are giving up the line, and that's because it isn't selling the way it used to, for whatever reason.

My comments regarding marketing and display were meant to be general and not directed at any specific dealer, and yes for whatever reason they just are not selling as well as they did in past years.

Lets face it. The lighthouse "FAD" or "CRAZE" of the 90's is over and a slow economy just adds to the slump. Harbour lights continues to bring a high quality product to the market while at the same time adding diversification through new products which shows commitment to the business and long time collectors. We may not like all that HL does Glows and the like etc.but remaining still as a dead calm over the ocean leaves you with just that. I for one am glad to see HL showing the commitment needed in the current economy.As I said in an earlier post nothing is as constant as change.

Well, no, I'm not a "hardcore" HL collector, but thanks anyway.

Am I a serious long term Harbour Lights collector? You betcha!! Do I enjoy and receive joy from each and every piece I add to my collection? Oh yes! Am I an "occasional buyer"? No way!

Webster defines "hardcore" as..."extremely resistant to change".

I'm so glad that Harbour Lights, by having the willingness to change with the times has in fact, remained constant.

It should not be assumed that a person buys GLOWS or LLOM's because they can't afford to buy the LE's or do not understand the history and value or the uniqueness of the LE's.

It should also not be assumed that a person must be a "hardcore" collector of only HL LE's on autoship, to be a true lover of lighthouses.

Bring on the lighted GLOWS. I'm sure some will find their way to my home!

Judy

I'm in agreement with you Rich on repeats of repeats. I'm not sure what they will accomplish, but it would have to radically different for me to buy one. I hope HL doesn't do themselves in, but who knows.

Bert

Personally, I think sales wise, the lighthed GLOWS is a good idea. People like a gimmick. I think it will help sales quite a bit. Still, I don't own any now and this won't changed my thinking. I have around 130 L.E.'s and stick to L.E.'s for my lights, just like them better.

As far as investment, I'll still stick with my I.R.A and 401k.

My dealer dropped their autoship, only to reinstate it after I and they talked, but went from three to one. They know me as a loyal customer and although I don't take them all, I take a lot, and I wanted to keep my number.

They still have a Christmas sale every year to try to clear out the old ones. They say sales of ALL Harbour Lights aren't very good and they appriciate me sticking with them, otherwise they'd too probably drop the line,

Take that for what it's worth

Mike

I think you're missing the point. If I'm reading Rich right, all he's saying is "Dance with the one that brought you." The "hardcore" term is not directed toward other collectors. It's directed toward Harbour Lights. If they want to diversify a little, that's fine. Just don't let it affect the LE's. That's what got us all here in the first place.

The big question is this:
Have all the new products had a negative affect on the LE's in any way? (value, quality, number, etc.)

Thanks Lou for understanding what I'm try to say and explaining it in a different way.

Have the other products affected the value of LEs. Yes and no. The economy is the main factor for the decrease in LE values. The lighthouse fad is also going away leaving only the true lighthouse lover and an occasional buyer in it's wake to buy either LEs or GLOWS. The 10,000 edition was also a BIG factor in the decrease in value of HL(supply and demand). And lastly, the poor GLOW gets the rest of the blame. Why would anyone want to spend hundreds of dollars to buy a CH2 or Coquille when they can get a more detailed GLOW for $50-$60? I for one would much rather scrimp and save for the LE, but, I only know my situation and other collectors have their own unique wants, needs and other priorities to spend their money on.

there certainly has been a plethora of opinion on this subject. I define a hardcore collector as one dedicated to the hobby of collecting Harbour Lights. That doesn't meant that the person has to purchase everyone, half, some, or one; it means that the person has decided, on a regular basis or a philosophy of collecting, to be in the market for pieces and to keep being in the market as her/his need/wants dictate.