Kim also said new for 2005 will be Portland Head with snow, but not for Christmas. It will be like HL201 Presque Isle PA which also was not a Christmas piece.

Ken

Geez, Kim is really spilling everything! It's like someone knocked over the Jelly Belly factory!

This would be a neat piece. However, this is another case of Rereleasing-the-pieces-even-though-we-said-we-would-never-do-that-because-this-is-a-different-seasonitis. :rolleyes:

But nonetheless, it should be cool!

Portland Head with snow!!!!
Great !!!!
I've been asking for this one for quite a while.

I've got to side with Greg. I'm sure it will be a great piece, but I've already got a Portland Head. I don't need another. Now Squaw Island on the other hand....

This is starting to get on the ridiculus side. It's bad enought HL is still bringing out 15-20 pieces a year but why do they have to be re-releases of the same ones. I'm glad the end of next year is my shutoff date for buying them all. HL is now bringing out re-releases just to make money rather then for their love of lighthouses and are not listening to their their dedicated collectors. I for one would much rather have HL bring out additional pieces over their 15-20 and have them new releases then this reissueing the same pieces. By my count we have had St. Augustine, Bodie and Hereford in 2004. Now Portland Head for 2005 and this is only the beginning. I realize I'm not forced into buying them but this just adds another nail in the coffin for the LE secondary market and puts money into Harbour Lights coffers.

I'd have to agree with Flacoastie...re-releases of the re-releases. If HL wants to re-release a
lighthouse then make it Point Vincente. I did purchase the 2004 Christmas Piece but it's pushed far in the corner. There a any number of lighthouses I'd like to see HL make and they have been requested here in The Forum. I'd like to think HL is listening but I'm beginning to wonder to whom.

I agree with Flacoastie. Why re-releases when they haven't made all of the lights in the US yet! Wish they would slow down a bit too. I am running out of room to display them and I won't store them because you can't enjoy them if they are in boxes!
Judy

I may get a few of you a bit upset but we must look at the reality of the today's lighthouse market.

This may come as a surprise to some of you, but Harbour Lights is actually in business to make a profit and any issue of Portland Head will sell.

As I have said before in the Fog Signal Building
So buy what you like and don't buy what you don't like. Just remember there are a lot of people out there who will buy the pieces that you personally don't like and I am sure that "Portland Head with snow" will be one of them and yes there will be one on my shelf.

Who wants all of the lighthouses in the US, especially the ones that are so generic and unknown. There may be a few of you out there, but not enough to make the piece profitable. You can't produce a lighthouse that will only sell a few hundred or so pieces.

Mike,

You better go out there and look at the dealer shelves and see what is going on in the world of the 85%. The shelves are loaded and they are not selling to that 85%. Dealers are dropping like grass with a lawn mower running over it because that 85% is not buying. The only pieces that HL can rely on selling are the dedicated collectors and quite a few of them are getting tired of these reissues. Look at this topic right now. Out of the 7 different responders, five are against it, one is neutral and you are the lone person in favor of it. Do you have a LE Portland Head now or is that why you want this one released? If you don't have one now, why not save like the rest of us that have one and help the secondary market. If you already have one, why do you want another version of the same piece. This is a question that I cannot understand. If the piece is already issued, why does anyone want a reissue of the same piece when there are so many unreleased pieces to be made. If 85% of the people are not buying from the dealers now, why not bring out these lesser known lights so the dedicated collectors can buy new releases and maybe some of the 85% will see them on the shelves and end up buying. I know that 85% are not buying in this neck of the woods because I see pieces such as Presque Isle(PA) and Cape Florida still on the shelves at retail around here. There are also pleanty of GLOW Portland Heads to be bought and they are not being bought. While Portland Head is a very beautiful light and very popular, we have the LE, 2 versions of the GLOW, a Guardian of the Night and a LLOM to keep everyone happy. What makes you think, other then dedicated collectors, that a snow covered version will be sold out? Why screw up the secondary market value of the limited edition anymore then it already is to satify a few collectors that may or may not have the limited edition version. If they want a limited edition version let them save their money like I did to buy one or settle for the GLOW.

These are the ravings of a dedicated collector that is getting fed up with some of the decisions that Harbour Lights is making toward marketing. While I am only one collector, it only takes one collector at a time to drop away and very soon instead of the 85% not buying, it will be 86%, then 87% and so on and so forth. This is flacoastie and I approve this message.

I have to agree with Mike on this point. Buy what you like and don't buy what you don't particularly care for.

As most of you know, I buy every LE that is released by Harbour Lights, and that includes Anchor Bay. I've purchased a few lights that I didn't particularly care for and asked myself why? Well I will answer that question. It's because I'm on autoship and a deal is a deal. I agreed to take one of every LE and that's what I do. I wanted a low flag#,so I get them all.

I'm not in favor of re-releases but it is a fact of business life. Portland Head is a very popular Lighthouse. If Harbour Lights makes a Portland Head with snow, it will sell. It will also make the folks at the Lighthouse Depot in Wells, Maine, extremely happy. We all know Harbour Lights likes to keep their largest dealers very happy. Special pieces from a dealer's general area makes for excellent business relations. It may not be as popular with distant dealers well west and south of Podunk, but they don't have to stock their shelves with that particular piece if they don't want.

Rich, you are making a wise decision. Buying every HL that comes out is definitely habit forming and also very expensive. I don't think I could make that very difficult decision at this particular point in my addiction to collecting HL's. I know the time will come sooner or later, but it will be later. Unlike some serious collectors, I do not plan on being buried with my HL's. Someday they will be sold and hopefully they will make their new owners smile as much as I smiled when I bought them.

Bob

Just a quick note on the retail shelves...at my local Hallmark, they have had the same pieces on the shelves for the past 2 years. At one point, they got an East Brother, but still have 2001 society brochures. Some kid broke the gallery off that one in the Dry Tortugas the name of which has suddenly evaded me. Bottom line, it's a mess.

IF anyone's looking for something, and doesn't care about number, let me know and I'll check it out for you.

Rich I agree with you
Do you know why they are not buying? The answer is that HL is producing too many LE's of lighthouses that only a few people want to buy. So they sit on the shelves or go for half price on Ebay. Now the solution to this is to produce less LE's and a smaller number of them.(like around 2000 pieces per issue) This will satisfy the serious collector and maybe keep the secondary market alive, but unfortunately it will not make as much profit for HL. So in order to make a better profit HL has to issue a product that will sell and that is where GLOWS and LLOM come into the picture. Some not all GLOWS will always be good sellers depending on what lighthouse it is. Portland Head happens to be one of those lighthouses. We go to Maine two or three times a year and all I can tell is that almost anything with Portland Head Light on it sell to tourists.
But you have to understand that there are not enough serious collectors of Harbour Lights out there to keep HL in business.

The answer is very simple. A lot of us don't want to buy a lighthouse that we don't want and there are new collectors that will buy a reissue because they like the lighthouse.

I don't have a LE of Portland Head and I will tell you why. I don't like it. It is not the greatest piece that HL has produced and certainly not worth the price it is bringing. I have the last GLOW version which I think is done better than the LE. And it is not a matter of money, I can afford to buy whatever I want, it is a matter of taste and value and I don't think the Portland Head LE matches up to either, but I would be willing to bet that the new release will be quite a nice piece.

Mike,

I agree with just about every point you made in this subject.

I do understand Rich's point of view also but unfortunately his is from a viewpoint of what a dedicated collector wants- every Lighthouse and no duplications.

This subject has come up many times and many of us lose sight of this simple basic fact-

HL is in business to make money- period. They have to try and balance things for both the dedicated collector and for the general buying public. This causes things to be done that make neither happy, especially the dedicated collector.

The dedicated collector wants a collectors item- exclusititity, rare, costly- but would like to find one cheap, is not always concerned about getting the version that looks the best.

Teh casual buyer wants items he knows that look nicer than other versions and wants it at a pleasing price.

HL does a pretty good job of tweaking both sides of this equation- I'll agree that we have had a bit too much in the reissues department and the gimics- like lighthed GLOWS & Christmas Pieces but some of this allows them the ability to make Lighthouses that the casual buyer would never buy and the dedicated collector craves.

They seem to ahve mostly learned their lesson of the 10000 editions. Unfortunately it may have come a bit late and is one cause of many of the options that the dedicated collectors don't like.

HL has to sell alot of product to subsidize the items that collectors want. Buy what you like and leave the rest to others.

It's a tough world out there for collectibles and HL is trying it's best to walk that tightrope.

They ain't perfect, but they sure do make a great product while trying to please us and the casual buyer and make enough money to keep going.

Dennis

It's one thing for HL to be in business to make money, it's another thing to release 10 years of "Limited Edition" collectibles and then break the promise not to make additional full size pieces. Many years ago, when the GLOW line was released, collectors received a letter from the company stating that re-releases would be 20% smaller than the original, preserving the uniqueness of the LE line. The Collector's Society began with a tradition of offering a "members only" sculpture - which means, in my mind "you can't buy the sculpture unless you are a member in a particular year, or buy it on the secondary market.

The release of the St. Augustine sculpture earlier in the year totally violated the LE policy; the release of the Hereford inlet recently violated the "members only Society" release. We have seen a 360 degree switch in the integrity of Younger and Associates. I can only imagine that they are in serious trouble, because all of this is totally out of character.

I suggest collectors do what I do. STOP BUYING LIMITED EDITION COLLECTIBLES FROM HARBOUR LIGHTS -CUZ THEY ARE NO LONGER LIMITED!!! Buy what you love, because if you decide a year or two later you're not crazy about the piece, it will have little secondary value.

And another reason why people not buying? Because while there are plenty of highly sought out lighthouses still to be released (Old North Block Island, Point Vicente, Point Bonita, Cape Charles etc), HL continues to release obscure pieces such as the upcoming 2005 release of Avery Point in Connecticut. Why release such an insignificant sculpture when millions of New Englanders would much rather have New London Light or the Five Mile Point Lighthouse in New Haven?

Correction - The Society "members only" piece re-released this year as Sea Girt - now a GLOW. Hereford Inlet was a Christmas release LE, now a fall relase. Can the 4th of July version be expected in the July-Dec. 2005 releases?

I have to beg to differ here. Avery Point is a VERY important structure. Otherwise, why would we be spending so much money to restore it? It is the only lighthouse built in the US as a memorial to lighthouse keepers, and the last lighthouse built in CT. It may be different from the common consideration of a "Lighthouse", but it is nonetheless a very important structure, and one dear to many of our hearts.

Even though I have the original Portland Head I would still like to own the new LE Portland Head in the snow.

I would hope that Harbour Lights does it with the earlier green-colored roof and have a horse-drawn carriage passing by in the snow. Maybe do it as it looked before the addition was added to the tower (much shorter).

I feel that doing a release of a lighthouse that was the subject of an earlier release is ok as long as they do only one 'new LE release' per year and the lighthouse is depicted in a different time period that the first LE of that lighthouse.

I, too, would like to bring it to the attention of 'ctlights' that Avery Point is a very significant (albeit small) lighthouse. It was built by the U.S. Coast Guard on the site of their training facility and, as Greg mentions, as 'a memorial to lighthouse keepers everywhere'. It was an active aid to navigation tended by Coast Guardsmen up until the departure of the U.S. Coast Guard training facility at Avery Point. To say that ANY lighthouse is insignificant is to not understand the fact that ALL lighthouses are significant. Just ask the mariners who depended on them to show the way to safety and safe passage.

Ron
(CT Keeper)

Great idea Ron, only have the Lighthouse Depot fund it and sell it through their catalog only as they have done in the past 3 years. Release it as a Historic Building and keep it out of the HL line of collectibles. That should make all happy(I know I would be) and don't have anymore reissues. While I collect Harbour Lights because I love lighthouses and buy all the releases(even though I know the newer pieces will never have a secondary market) I would like to keep some of the secondary market value on the older pieces.

Years ago when I had a lenghty one-on-one discussion with Bill Younger he emphasized three things to me that have stuck in my mind and they are:

1) Buy collectibles that you like and love to collect for the pure pleasure of buying them no matter what they are. If they have a secondary market value that is icing on the cake.

2) Harbour Lights will never sacrifice quality for quantity and never go over an issue edition size of 10000 for any other their regular limited editions.

3) Harbour Lights will never reissue a limited edition version of any limited edition that has already been issued.

The desire to buy one piece a year, four pieces a year or buy them all each year is a decision we all must make. Bill has kept his word on quality as each new issued pieces seem to be better then the last. However, when Harbour Lights was going to reissue the Anchor Bay 44' MLB as a limited edition without the glass case when they still had the limited edition with the glass case, I called and reminded him of his words and the glass case version remained a limited edition and the version without the glass case was reissued as a less detailed open edition as the earlier open edition Anchor bay were. Now Harbour Lights and Bill are reneging on his words by having 3 reissues this year of previously issued limited editions and only Harbour Lights knows how many next year. We already know of one and undoubtedly more will follow. This is one subject that I intend on letting Harbour Lights know about as one of the reasons that I will be quitting after Dec. 2005. The other is their large amount of issues each year that puts a strain on a retirement budget and the third is with the large issues each year I am running out of space and cannot think about buying them and not displaying them all.

Enough said on this subject by me as my opinion is my opinion only and you all know where I stand.

Ron, if they have to release a Portland Head with snow on it. I think you would probably prefer a horse-drawn SLEIGH rather than a carriage. I know I would.

Bert

Of course, we could always ask for a miniature sleigh and eight tiny reindeer. We could even name them DASHER, DANCER, PRANCER, VIXEN, COMET CUPID, DONDER and BLITZEN.

Now where have I heard that before?

bobo

What no Rudolph?

Bob

And you could have Bill Younger in the sleigh instead of Santa.

Bob -- Rudolph was out sick.

Mike -- I like your idea. Besides I stopped believing in Santa a couple of years ago.

bobo

Capt. William Wincapaw flying over it!

Yeah and when you wind it up the piece will play a selection of ever popular tunes: Over the River and Through the Woods, Let It Snow, I'll Be Home for Christmas and Santa Bill is Coming to Town....

Mike I'm sure you'll enjoy your new Portland Head. I guess the rest of us will just take the versions we have and if we want snow on them, take some of that phoney stuff and sprinkle it on.

One thing to remember here. Whatever Bill may have said in the past may have been his intention. At this point Bill is getting on a bit and many of the decisions currently being made by HL may reflect not only his ideas but those of others who are trying to insure that HL survives as a business for years ahead.

You got me smiling on that one, Sue!

Bob

You know we can all give our opinions and arguements and ideas, etc. But when the dust settles, it all comes down to this and I believe that we all agree here.
We all like lighthouses and Harbour Lights has put many a smile on our faces. Their lighthouse replicas are second to none in the collectible market today. So whether we agree or disagree with their markerting decisions we should be very happy with our collections and with the friends we have made. I say three cheers for Harbour Lights. They are still the best.

Hey, you forgot Olive. You know, "allof the other reindeer".

I do agree with the re-releases. I would rather see the lights that they have not done.

Joyce

Joyce, are you running for office today? That last statement sounds like something a candidate might say trying to please all of the people!

I can't wait, this is one I've wanted for a long time and I'm even happier it's a limited and not a GLOW!

Sean

Lightkeeper Mike,
Well said! I'm not a HL collector simply to resell a piece at a profit. Let's enjoy our collections because we love lighthouses.
Rick

True statement, Kory, and profiting on sales of HL's in today's secondary market is laughable at best. I don't think anyone these days is buying at retail and able to sell the same piece for a profit. You might be lucky enough to get something off of eBay at a low price and sell it to a collector who needs it for a couple of bucks more, but that's about it.

So right now everyone buying HL's is collecting for enjoyment, and not reselling at a profit.

Bob

This may be true Bob, but are enough people buying HL's to keep the company going? We see dealers dropping the line everywhere and even many of the old time collectors stopped buying for whatever reason. Without that secondary value can Y&A survive?

While I'm not a huge fan of re-releases,and I won't buy many of them, if that's what Harbour Lights has to do to stay in business then I'm all for it. There are a lot more lights that I want to see made, and if it means we have to see a few of the same then so be it.

Reader's Digest version answer: Yes, they can!

Now here's my opinion: The secondary market disappeared from the lime-light many years ago. There is a small secondary market operating between collectors across the country. There's no web site for it. There's no advertising for it. Everything is being done via word of mouth, or through email. Things are slow but there are still people out there looking. Example: I just sold 16 lighthouses to a collector from Oregon who got my name and number from a dealer in Rhode Island. I had also sold him three other HL's about two months ago.

So you see, there still is a secondary market out there but sales are few and far between. No one is going to make a living off it, but it does exist. I still have people contact me about selling HL's they no longer want because of loss of interest. I also have quite a few emails asking for estimates on what a certain piece or pieces may be worth. I'm always frank with them and tell them what it is worth but I also tell them what they can expect to get for the piece.

The whole scheme of things boils down to this. Don't expect to make any money on selling HL's unless you bought them right. If you can afford to do so, wait and hope for a secondary market value comeback in the future. Do you feel lucky?

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes: