I have observed over the past month that we consistantly average between 125-150 people looking at the Forums at any given time. Of this number the average is 25-40 Forum members, yet the number of Forum members actually posting is somewhere around 8-10 and they are usually the same 8-10 daily. These 8-10 posting members can only come up with so many topics, while if the non-posting Forum members would consider posting, we could have a much more interesting and diverse Forum.

Some of the reasons for not posting that I would imagine are being used is:
1. I'm new and nobody wants to hear from me.
2. I don't have anything interesting to say.
3. I don't know as much about Harbour Lights as the rest of these people so I don't want to appear dumb.
4. Let someone else ask the question.

And for the lurkers that are just observing, the reasons not to join and be able to post may be:
1. I don't have the time to join and post.
2. If I join will they expect me to do some work.
3. I don't collect Harbour Lights so why join.

I have only written down my thoughts on why people do not join, or if they join, why they do not take an active role in the Forums. Do any of the posting members or non-posting members have any ideas on why the number of members not posting is so high. Do you think we ought to add new Forums and delete some of the inactive Forums. We basically can post on any subject that relates to Harbour Lights and other lighthouse related items so why is this not happening. True, there are many members that do not like to post for one reason or the other, but, there are many members that have views, opinions, ideas and questions that do not mind posting but for some reason never follow through.

This is a chance to give us your reasons for not posting and your ideas to make the Forums more user friendly. For those of you that are not members, please take the time to join and give us your input and give us a chance to welcome you to the Forums by posting in the Welcome Forum. For those of you that have joined in the past we try and welcome you, with or without your input, in the Welcome Forum.

Please take the time to let us know your feelings by posting in response to these questions or by private email.

Very well said RIch. You are very right about the 8 or 10 that post on a daily basis. I will give your comments some thought as to what we can do to make the forum friendlier, but I may be hardpressed to come up with something, I believe the forums are quite friendly.

One thing I have noticed is very few members take the time to welcome our new members to the forums. Would like to see more get involved in welcoming the new ones.

Bert

Well, lack of knowledge about Harbour Lights should not stop anyone. When I joined, I owned one LE (Limited Edition) and some LLOM (Little Light of Mine). I did not know about reunions or Society Pieces. And for the experts on this forum I still don't know much compared to you guys. However, I liked the fact there were different categories to post in such as lighthouse preservation and lighthouse events.

Time was the biggest factor in the beginning, I was already working overtime and for a while it was more and more hours. Now I am back to 40 hours, therefore more posts. Of course in the meantime I have been to 2 regional events and enjoyed it very much and met Bill and Nancy Younger as well as a grand daughter (at St. Augustine) whose name I can't remember, but she was very nice and handled herself well.

Also remember a short post is OK too, such as "I agree" or "I love Old Cape Henry".

One more thing I did not discover until later was it you type a mistake and don't see it until after you post, you can edit your own post and fix it.

Intimidation was an intial reaction to posting for me back in 1998 but there were more 'off the wall' characters posting in those days.
This Forum is a wealth of knowledge if you 'search it".
I remember signing in in the old days, several times a day just to be able to keep up with what was happening. Now I'm coming back, hoping for a post.
All of you new people, we need some new ideas and questions. If we refer you to 'old topics', we're not putting you off, we're just sending you to our encyclopedic resource.
We're always looking for new observations. This Forum is what we make it.
Bob

It doesn't appear that there are many ideas on how to get more members posting. I thought there would be plenty of input but not so.

I'm still here, Rich!

When it comes to getting answers to questions about Harbour Lights or lighthouses in general, you can't beat the Collector Forums. The people here know what they are talking about.

Perhaps we should consider adding a couple more threads dealing with other interests that our collectors and lighthouse lovers may be interested in.

I would think an expanded photography thread would draw interest. Everybody loves to see pictures posted at the CF. Most everybody has a camera and takes pictures. Why not share photo tips and secrets with our fellow members?

I love to work in my yard. I have a vegetable garden and many different types of plants, bushes, and ornamental grasses. I don't know a heck of a lot about the species I grow other than they do grow well. Perhaps a thread about landscaping, successful plants in different zones, flower gardens, vegetable gardens, and other landscaping tips would be of interest.

Another thread that might generate interest would be a cooking thread. I'm a big fan of Food TV and enjoy picking up cooking tips from the various shows. A food and cooking thread would be a great place to share recipes and actual preparation tips that have been successful for others.

Like many of you, all my interests don't revolve around collecting HL's. I love to cook, take pictures, and work in the yard. I'm sure many of you may share my interests. What do you think about expanding the CF to include some of these suggestions? I know they are off the beaten path and have nothing in common with lighthouses, but they are mutual intersts, I'm sure.

Bob

I'm still here, just not posting as much as before....but then I'm not into HL's as much as before either. Cooking? I do it but I hate it. Gardening? Haven't devoted as much time or effort into that as I used to. If mowing is considered gardening the answer to that one is the same as my cooking answer!

While we seem to be adding to our membership rolls and some of the newer folks are posting it does seem that we've lost a lot more folks than we've gained, regular posters that is. Or maybe they're still around, just not participating for a variety of reasons. Maybe it's more of a rarity that some of us have stuck around for as long as we have?!

Who knows, maybe some of our comments about "the state of the forums" and the "future of Harbour Lights" are turning off some folks who might have posted if these subjects weren't brought up?

Maybe you'd get a better response if you put your thoughts into some sort of poll so that people could respond and remain anonymous if they so desired??

I have followed these boards for a long time. Since before these current forums when John was running his "Harbour Lights Collector's Information Center" website to be exact. While I used to check to forums a number of times daily, and post just as often, my interests and priorities have changed over the years. You could say I fell victim to "Harbour Lights burnout". The pressure to "own them all", increasing numbers of lights released each year, and other factors all played a part in my decreasing presence here in the forums.

Why don't more people post here? For some of the older members it could be been there, discussed that. Some topics can only be discussed so many times before you lose interest. That said, newer collectors and forum participants shouldn't be discouraged by that. Ask questions. Bring up items of interest. There are always new and fresh points of view on any given subject.

I think a lot of the excitement is gone. In the old days there was always the thrill of the hunt. Looking for classics like the southern Belles, Hatteras, etc. or pieces with lightning rods hidden in the back room of a dealer or on the shelf at retail. I don't think you will see that anymore. Another big topic of discussion was variations on pieces. Mistakes that made it to the dealer shelves, mispellings, mold variations. When was the last time something like that caused a stir and sent collectors scrambling to dealers in a frenzy looking for that rarity?

What ever happend to seahorses and the hunt to find them on each new release?

Other items that caused collector excitement and discussion but are now old hat are the reunions, new technology in construction, regionals, and the like.

I also feel the doom and gloom talk about dealers dropping the line and the undertones of the demise of Harbour Lights in general may be a turnoff to a collector who may have became interested in the line, found this site and is looking to become more involved, but they learn more, may have their bubble burst a little.

Anyway, I don't think it is any one factor causing a lack of participation, but rather a combination of many.

My two cents,

-Todd

Recalling that some of us have come relatively late to the Forum and may not have a good idea of what has already been discussed, I have to ask, or wonder, how closely the Harbour Lights staff monitors the Forum and "gets the drift" of what the collectors are feeling? I suspect that one of the more common "distresses" is the increasing volume of pieces with which the Company is overwhelming the collectors, and the reluctance to acknowledge that their collector base may be feeling too overwhelmed or pressed, or financially strapped, to sustain interest. I mentioned this to one of the staff, about five or six years ago, and was told that I ought to buy "just the ones that you like." Clearly, they don't truly understand what motivates a true collector. In their push to spin out "volume" to attract and satisfy the whim-motivated, spontaneous purchase of the occasional buyer [who usually gets the pieces either as souvenirs or gifts], they have underestimated the frustration of the reliable collectors. Another problem may be the diminishing quality of the product...not so much in how it is conceived and design, but how it is actually executed. I am in the fortunate position of being the official "inspector" of the incoming Harbour Lights for our local outlet, and I am more and more aware of flaws, poor assemblage, increasing chips and nicks, sloppy glue, etc. Also, their laudable attempts to achieve greater "reality" is resulting in increasingly vulnerable pieces, especially the ones that employ metal struts and supports and that frequently suffer from flaking paint or bent and distorted pieces. And, again, there is also the problem that probably perfectly good production pieces are being spoiled, if not ruined, by rough handling during packing [I'm thinking about the sometimes nearly unextractable wads of foam that are jammed in, bending or breaking the parts]. One other thing that I, personally, have found to be extremely discouraging is the Company's putting out extremely limited edition pieces, such as the reunion pieces, that only the fortunate few who can attend are able to obtain. It is disheartening to have a hole punched in one's collection because of sheer inability to come up with the money and time to travel to the reunion just to acquire the intentionally, forcibly rare piece. No one enjoys having gaps like this in a collection. I collect the Harbour Lights because I genuinely enjoy the pieces, although I could equally enjoy them if there weren't so many coming out. Because of the necessity to move in with my father, I currently have no room to display them---any of them---and so I continue to buy and add them to the Mesopotamian ziggurat of Harbour Lights boxes down in the basement, which is now roughly eight by ten feet wide and seven feet high. I don't fail to get the new pieces because I hope, someday, to have an environment for their display, and because I don't want to have to go through [again!] the challenge of finding the pieces that I have missed. I guess you would call that a devoted collector!

Danny

Danny,

What a fantastic piece of literature. You put together some very thought-provoking ideas and concepts. And I tend to agree.

bobo

Danny,

You've hit the nail squarely.

Sandy

Wow! That was well done Danny. I venture to say that you have described the devoted collector to a "T". Thank you for that wonderful insight. I hope HL is listening or reading these posts and in a very special way yours.

Bert

Danny - Outstanding synopsis of the situation as it stands now. I wish that you would please forward this response to Harbour Lights so that they will read it and not hope they read it. We have all been skirting around the real issue and you hit the nail right on the head.

Good thoughts, Danny. Well, I haven't posted for a while as I was called out of retirement for a temporary contract. I just don't have the time to check the Forums like before but when my contract runs out I'll be back. Even though the market has slowed way down, I'm in this collecting bug to the bitter end!! The Collector Forums are great and I have met some wonderful folks and gathered lots of info since I started posting.
Keep the lights burning,
Judy

NO TIME, NO TIME! Working 84 hrs a week!

Man am I tired! Will be back when this job is done!

I agree with Bob M. -- I would love to add a new thread about "Lighthouses on Stamps" but I am not sure how and where. So...

A varied choice of threads is a good idea. Personally I am here, because of my general interest in lighthouses, because the friendly attitude of the memebers, because there is always new information about lighthouses, becuase I can always ask questions, because it seems people are interested in me as well as in the lights ... and because I have a few HL pieces. But the HL pieces are certainly not MY main reason for belonging to the CF.

And I also agree with the remark about the "Welcome". One of the reason I got involved was the lovely friendly welcome we got when we joined. So PLEASE carry on making other Newbies feel so warmly welcomed. (I try to...)

I enjoy this place! Long may it continue!
Please keep it up
Margret

At some risk of wearing out my welcome and, in the process, plunging everyone into a terminal case of the fidgets, if not ennui, I thought that more interaction in the Forum might be encouraged if the members would share not so much THAT they collect Harbour Lights, but WHY. Perhaps by looking beyond their "object-ness," (because collectibles can tend to become devalued as so much currency over time), we might usefully recall or re-create what they originally evoked in each of us.

Ruthlessly landlocked in Kansas as I have been all my life, I perhaps curiously---or desperately---imprinted on my first lighthouse in...Wichita! This potentially miraculous and certainly visionary structure (to my childish eyes) was, in fact, a Specification Oil Company service station, built in 1930, that had survived under various oil company logos until the early 1950s. In a fit of architectural abandon, the station disdained the conventions of walls, corners, and angles, and disguised itself as a massive outcropping of white rock, with the requisite caverns and caves leading into the garages, office, and restrooms. Above, in splendid inaccessibility, perched a lighthouse, extending upwards perhaps another two stories. Before I had even a notion or concept of oceans and seas, and mariners in peril, this extravagantly unique creation haunted my imagination. I say "haunted" because, as a child, unable to wander at will, I got to see it only a very few times, whenever my parents happened to drive to that out-of-the-way area of town, and only two or three times at night, when it was lighted. Sometime in 1953, when we rounded that beckoning corner, I discovered that the station had fallen to the ravages of that urban renewal movement which dissolved so many of the city's truly original and fascinating buildings. [The lighthouse/station can just barely be seen at the far right edge of this photo: http://www.wichitaphotos.org/graphics/wpl_wpl1832.jpg ]. It had to wait until I was 41, in 1987, before I "experienced" another lighthouse---this one also making a ghostly appearance through sheets of windblown rain as I sat, storm-rocked, in a car at the parking lot of Yaquina Head, OR, attempting to take a photograph through the briefly opened passenger window.

Between 1986 and 1998, I spent three weeks out of almost every year in Oregon, "mainlining" the coast and its otherworldly beauties. And, also, dying a little each time I had to return to Kansas. I started to notice the Harbour Lights, there in the shops, in 1991 (and it is with teeth-gnashing, self-reproachful chagrin to recall how many original Coquilles I saw without getting a single one!). I never bought a Harbour Light in Oregon. It had to wait until 1995, after I returned home, where I was seized by the conviction that my parents needed to have a "souvenir" of Split Rock, MN, which they had seen on one of their trips. I called Harbour Lights, and learned that there were---GASP!---three stores IN Wichita that actually sold them...a fatal revelation. I finally bought Heceta Head for myself, resolving to get only the Oregon lighthouses that I had seen, but ultimately rationalizing myself to start on a now ten-year "bender" to get them all.

I am laying aside, and leaving for others to develop, the idea that the Harbour Lights sculptures serve as useful and potent "glyphs"---or icons---for the memory, evoking whatever response that each individual viewer felt upon visiting each particular place. For me, each piece is invested or imbued with potential, and my fascination is focused on the way that they encapsulate an environment---something that any number of "miniaturized" things can do for me. The amusing dilemma, however, is deciding the dynamic of my response: what is being miniaturized, the lighthouse---or me? As an artist, I am extremely conscious of spatial relationships, and the Harbour Lights pieces make these immediately "available" in a way that visiting the location cannot. The pieces are, in this sense, true sculptures, but they also encourage the eye to emulate a cinemaphotographic adventure---zooming in, panning about, doing aerial views---like any film documentary. And, like a true sculpture in space (as opposed to a painting or a photograph), they offer a continuous revelation through shifting viewing angles, all the more easily controlled and manipulated by means of the sculpture. True, this also happens in the presence of the actual lighthouse, but one cannot happily and instantly levitate above it nor flow around it unhindered by obstacles. In another sense, too, the sculptures condense and distort time. Rationally, we recognize and understand that structures and shorelines and landscape features are, in reality, at considerably greater distances, but our minds know how to adjust and compensate for this kind of visual shorthand. After studying the pieces, contemplating them, imagining through them, it is amusing to consider how we have been drawn in and absorbed by them. It is all the more disconcerting to realize that the sculptures have consistently and resolutely maintained their true size, and that WE have become miniaturized. Our travel adventure, or flight into Memory, has all taken place within the confines of an armchair or tabletop.

I guess that I'm saying, in all of this, that we have to avoid being overtaken by the mindset of COLLECTION, with its numbing digression into acquisition and inventory, condition and quality, and rediscover what moves us to collect Harbour Lights, or, for that matter, anything. The collecting process can easily descend from initial enthusiasm into a knee-jerk response toward investment awareness, obligatory acquisition, and fatigue, followed by the search for a new novelty [intentional redundancy, here!]. The fact that the individual pieces are, for all practical purposes, pretty much alike leaves us with little to share and compare, except...for our individual responses to them! Just how long can anyone be energized by a low edition number? Any "appreciation" for Harbour Lights is better served by spiritual rather than monetary concerns. In their small way, they give us assistance and permission to escape and transcend the present, to reflect on the beauties, mysteries and adventures beyond our daily routines. That, alone, is a good investment.

Danny

Danny - Again, very well put! And please don't ever think that you are going to wear out your welcome. We need fresh inputs and yours are very well thought out. It is a pleasure to read your posts and thoughts on Harbour Lights and other associated things brought to light through an artist's eyes.

Hey Danny, no way are you provocing "the fidgets" or any other form of "unwelcome". In fact I thought reading your post very thought provoking.
I have several ideas about threads thanks to your words! More please

I started here not as a collector but as a person who loved to take pictures. My kids kept saying leave me alone, so I took a picture of my first lighthouse in Maine. That started my first addiction for lighthouses. I got great information here and everyone helps you. Then I went on a boat ride and won a HL Little light house. My kids started to buy me more. Then I saw the larger ones OH Boy!!!! I bought only a few (10), I know its not as many as all the others here but I just started. Then came the ornaments, Spy glass, pins, 4 Thumbnails. Got a thumbnail this weekend ad Hereford It was very exciting. Keep this site alive and kicking.

Hey Member 1139...

Maybe you should thank Providence, your "lucky stars," or whatever entities seem appropriate, that you don't have "as many." There are two pieces that I am anticipating will come through in the next month, and then I'll have all the limited editions but the two big ones, and all of the GLOW editions. The consequence of this is that I have about a two-foot aisle to walk through a canyon of boxes, and I sweat blood every time there is a tornado warning, here in Kansas. Not to mention that the expense is seriously undercutting my more rational and pressing needs, like new clothes, new glasses, a better car, etc. Look upon my doleful example and profit thereby!

Danny

I see your delma and raise you a wall full of photo albums filled with lighthouse pictures. Not family but LIGHTHOUSES. But I really can see it take over ones house. That is also why I started with This little Light of mine. They are so life like and the cost is less and I can fit them in a wall unit. I still like the bigger ones to.

Danny - If I were you I would consider taking out insurance on my lighthouses especially living in a tornado area. Hurricanes are bad enough but since I have separate insurance I don't worry half asa much.

Guilty!! I joined the CF's nearly five years ago and just started posting this week. In reply to your queries, Rich, I was very apprehensive - and continue to be. I guess I felt that I could not participate in an intelligent fashion because all of you Wacko's were so experienced in everything Harbour Lights. I read meticulously everything that Jim Rutherford's publications offered until he disappeared. That gave me the background but not the marketplace knowledge. But I am really not interested in the latter. I collect because I love the sea, am a history buff and love to travel; lighthouses give me the opportunity to combine my interests. I display all of my lights but I buy only those which I find historically significant, feel are architecturally beautiful, have a particularly special family story, or which I have visited. Actually, I can't afford to buy all those which I have visited. One of my "turnoffs" has been the expansion of Harbour Lights into other areas - I liked it when they were all absorbed in the lights like the rest of us. Danny, I have to agree that some of the quality has succumbed to numbers. A case in point: the Christmas lights - although they are lovely pieces, they are ruined by adapter receptacles which are very poorly placed. Get rid of the lights and keep the see-through windows. And, Todd, some of the old excitement has disappeared; "the thrill of the hunt" is not there anymore and edition sizes are too big. I suffered from burnout, too, but reunions have definitely rekindled the old spark for me. I actually managed to plan ahead and save so that I could attend the Maryland and Michigan reunions. It is a gift to myself every few years and a way to rekindle the "flame" for me.
Danny, yours is the most poetically splendid writing I have read in the CF's. Todd, I loved visiting Saginaw River Rear Range; I am overdue posting something in that thread but will do so soon. Thanks for listening, guys.

Grace - I hope that this post has been instumental in you starting to post after all these years. I also hope that others are reading this and may now start posting. We all started as novices and compared to others I still feel that I'm a novice so please don't feel like you are alone. Just keep posting and before long it will come as natural as putting butter on toast.

Thanks for the encouragement, Rich. I am trying. Maybe someday I will be a Wacko, too!

You've only got 42 more posts to go. You can do it by this time next week by averaging 6 posts a day. You can also get your avatar when you become a Wacko. Big times ahead!

Grace,

I read your post and really understood what you wrote. Back in "97" when I signed up it was with great apprehension. The members of the forum made me feel right at home and in no time I was up and posting. It's people like Rich and many others who make the forums what the are, GREAT. Looking forward to reading more of your posts and seeing you reaching WACKO status.

Bert

Grace,

I was in your position not so long ago, but with encouragement from Rich and BobM, I made it to wacko status in no time. I, too, was intimidated because everyone seemed to know so much about HL's that I didn't. But I learn something nearly every day on this board. They are a great bunch!

Welcome and post away!

Cathy

I know nothing much about Harbor Lights, but I enjoy lighthouses and love the chat on CF !
When I first joined, I felt so welcome, that I spent a few days just looking around what was going on. And it soon became clear that there were so many other topics going on here (not just HL) that I soon felt quite comfortable. Even not knowing about HL...
I wish I could write as well as Grace and Danny! Love to read all the contributions...

Thanks for all your kind words. Although I retired a couple of years ago, I have continued working on a parttime basis. I am going to take a break for a couple of months - see if I can make it without the extra income! I love this time of year - we are actually experiencing some fall like weather in Houston! So, it's a good time to do some of the things I like to do, including staying in touch - in part, through the forums this time.

What happened?! It looks like I was the only new person to respond to the original inquiry. Well, I don't know if I can meet the challenge of an average of 6 per day but I will continue to try. There are some pretty interesting discussions going on. I just discovered the timeline - love that trivia! Did all of you see Paul's pictures of the gathering at Old Michigan City? I had the pleasure of visiting it after the reunion - check it out! It would be great if there were more posts like that. It gives people who can't get to the lights a vicarious way of doing it.