The June 2005 (Online) Lighthouse Legacy will probably be 'released' at www.HarbourLights.com later today.

I'll post a link in this thread.

The June 2005 Online Lighthouse Legacy is now available to view online or download.

www.HarbourLights.com/legacy/

You can choose a 72 dpi or 300 dpi version. For those with a dial-up connection you may want to choose the 72 dpi. Of course the 300 dpi will print more clearly.

Instead of left clicking on the links, right-click and choose "Save Target As" and save a copy on your hard drive. It will then open up much faster once it is downloaded.

Your feedback will be valuable to Harbour Lights. You can either post it here or email it to: rachel@harbourlights.com

Those of you in North Carolina and other rural areas may want to wait a few weeks before you download your copy. That way you'll feel right at home

The June Legacy is full of interesting features. I just have to get use to "reading" online or printing the issue which I probably will do.

Thanks, John, for the early preview.

Judy

I like it
More information then before.
14 pages.
I see Harbour Lights got my St Augustine Pictures.
I now can brag I am a photographer for the Harbour Lights Lighthouse legacy.

Does anyone know what the inside steps of Price's Creek are made of?

Eric , the stairs are wood. Stephen Wilmoth was along on the trip to Price's Creek that some of the OBLHS members did as part of our Spring Retreat this year, including Betty Parrish who's pretty picture made the Legacy . He's recorded nicely what we saw on that trip.

You can find the story and many photos, including a closeup of the stairs at his site...
Visiting Price\'s Creek
Click on the photo gallery to find the stairs photo.

Judy

Well if you're a photographer, Daniel, I'm a contributing free lancer! :p For anyone with a good eye and that can count fairly accurately, you can tell that my 57 lighthouses (now 66 since I e-mailed them a while back) would not fit in three pictures (the two on page 14 and the one that they couldn't fit in due to space limitations). When I first sent those in when I first moved in, I had them standing on top of each other more or less and you couldn't make out anything except there were too many lighthouses in too little an area! So I thinned them and they are now in 5+ locations! The pictures that i sent them had expired on-line, so when Rachel contacted me, I went and crammed them into where I could get them in 3 pictures and reshot them; obviously, the third picture was the crowded one!! As for the good eye, I rearranged them where the west coast including AK and HI are on one table and include my BC, CN representative (and my two VA up behind them on a ledge); my gulf coast are on a round three-legger in the hall; my NJ are at the top of the stair riser; the corner shelves are DE, MD and NE with my eastern CN, and the ladder bookcase are the Great Lakes states, NC, SC and GA. PHEWWWWww!

Steve

I'm confused here, I thought the Legacy was to be Emaied to us and was only available to society members. It looks like to me that this is not the case. Can someone set me straight?

I'm pretty partial to the picture of the litte cutie on page 7!

Mike

Who's that, Mike, KIM???

Steve

I think in the past they tried to email a PDF of the Legacy, but got it rejected by many ISPs as too large.

The smallest file size (72 dpi) is just over 2 MB.

I think what SDudley meant was that they were going to email a link to the Legacy, not make a general posting of it's availability.

I can see this from both sides. It does take away an "exclusive" benefit of being in the Society. However, the Legacy is also a marketing tool for HL to use. Even if it was simply a link to the online version, folks would send the link to friends who would access it. Eventually someone would publicly display the link. Add a password and the password would get distributed the same way.

Might as well start with the public release of the product and hope that it sells some product for them. Disappointed that we have lost this "exclusive benefit", but it does make sense for HL to release it this way.

Thanks. John and Dave for getting me sorted out. You are right in that it would be a very large file to drop in ones account and I could see where one could have problems. I was really thinking that it would be emailed but Dave brings up a good point about how would you keep something like this secure. Oh well, things are always changing.

I, too, had thought about the password and a member's only section, but it depends if people want to give out their password or not, then it still would be for "members only" to most of us.

Steve

All right, what am I doing wrong when I try to download? I have Adobe but it will not load. I do the 72 because I have dialup and it just sits there but never shows up. How long does it take with dialup to load it?

I think your member number and a password would be appropriate.
We paid for the legacy so I don’t think it should be available for everyone.
If the member number was used I don’t think very many collectors would want to give out their member number with a password.

HL may also sell less membership if the legacy is available to anyone with Internet access. With more and more collectors starving for room for their lighthouses it maybe that the legacy is more attractive for being a member than another lighthouse.

Also; if a member number and a password was required maybe insider tips could be offered. Like first hand news on what’s coming up and A monthly letter from Kim.

I would appreciate feedback from anyone with a dial up on how long the file takes to OPEN (left-click) and DOWNLOAD (right-click and "Save Target As"

Same for those with DSL and cable connections.

With cable connection, it loaded quickly and easily.

Judy

John,

With cable connection at 300 dpi, it took me about 5 seconds to download. I can't complain about that.

bobo

Rich,

With dialup it might take you about two days. (Just kidding.) But you might want to attempt a download before you go to sleep at night and see what happens by the morning.

If nothing, let me know and I'll be happy to send you a hard copy via snail mail.

bobo

I'm on a mid-level DSL and it took 18 seconds for the 72dpi to display, 30 for the 300 dpi version to display. About the same to download it. I think if I was on the dial up I would download it rather than try to view it online. Once it is on your computer you will be able to navigate it much faster than if you are viewing online.

I finally got the Legacy downloaded and it took about 5 minutes. Last month the email took about 20 seconds to download. At least there was nothing wrong with my computer. It's the price you pay when you are satisfied with dialup for everything else.

Suddenly our Membership doesn't seem to be so special anymore. Is the gift really free or did we cover that cost with Society Membership? Sorry I don't really keep up with these things but what else am I getting with membership? The right to buy the Society Exclusive and what?

Thanks in advance.

Good point about really not getting anything for free and no advantage to join the society. The people that have been the loyal collectors are suddenly not special anymore. HL is now appearing to be leaning toward the general public and what they can give them. As with all other companies that are getting into apparent sales trouble they are starting to change their philosopies. Reissues lead the pack.

Harbour Lights need to rethink this Legacy being free to others while us members are paying for it. Usually the society gift lighthouse doesn’t mean that much to me. It has a large production and goes on ebay pretty cheap. The Legacy is pretty important to me. I love seeing others and mine pictures, the articles and general HL news. If the Legacy is free I probably won’t be buying a membership next year. I think I am not alone with this feeling and this will really hurt the sales for a membership if this isn’t corrected.

Again the access to the Legacy should require membership number and password.

Amen to that, Daniel and SThompson. My thinking exactly!

Okay, here's an advantage to the online Legacy, at least for me. I just read the newsletter online. I am not a HLCS member. I keep on thinking I should join. Now that I've seen how amazing this newsletter is, I am going to get the $39 together this week and hopefully be able to read the newsletter legally soon!

Greg
There is nothing on the HL website stating that the legacy can only be viewed by society members. It is open to the world of Internet to view. You are not required to purchase the membership to view the Legacy so there is no way you are doing anything illegal by downloading it without paying the $39. My point why pay the $39 for membership unless you want the lighthouse that is being offered as a free gift And even then you will be able to get it cheaper on ebay.

Sean makes a most valid point, as does Daniel. At this point in time the only value to remaining a Collector Society member is to receive the "gift" lighthouse (though it really isn't a gift....) and to be able to purchase the special redemption piece. With a little work, you can purchase both these pieces without being a member, just find a dealer who will sell you theirs at the end of the society year.

As much as it frustrates us, the Legacy can be a very valuable marketing piece for HL. If it gets to a few new or potential collectors and causes them to become collectors it has served it's purpose. Of course, the current collector and society member no longer has an exclusive. Personally I believe we will see the end of the society at the end of this society year since it no longer serves a real purpose.

And as I said before, there is no way that a log in and password will be anywhere near effective. Since there is no "harm" to be done by giving out the information to friends, it would happen on a wholesale level. Even if that isn't done, the Legacy could be downloaded and distributed by other means. Might as well just cut to the chase and make it widely available. Mind you, I don't like this any better than you do, but it is reality.

Since no one as a whole can agree on a way around the current one, has anybody spoken with anyone (other than John, obviously) that has anything to do with anything about the wholesale sell out; or the wholsale uprising it has caused?? I did see that the HH Front Range light is on E-Bay already, but it was just as much, and maybe a little more with shipping, and that was a starting point for bids (not that someone WON'T place one for cheaper later); but from what I understand from the dealer I spoke with, they pay around 1/2 of the retail price on all pieces including the membership exclusives, so if they sell for 1/2 price they are breaking even (or making a little back on S&H), but the membership pieces/packets cost them the same as us: $39...so why sell it cheaper (unless they are selling out and cutting their losses)?!?

Steve

The majority of the Collectors Society membership still doesn't know the on-line Legacy is up and available. If they happen to stop by the HL web site or have visited the Forums they know about the availability. Have you received an email to society members giving you a link? I know I haven't.

If you have a problem with this, you need to send HL a well thought out email explaining why you feel as you do about the general availability of the Legacy, and that you feel there is little or no value to your society paid membership.

Thanks Judy,
for the answer on the stairs. The pictures on the website were great to look at. This is one of my favorite lighthouses. I only got as close as the ferry boat.

Eric, you are most welcome. I hope you get to see Price's Creek "up close and personal" someday before too long!

Judy

Well, I (for one) have not taken it on myself to represent the entire forum (or even myself :p ) to contact HL with any suggestions; has anyone questioned/suggested anything about the disgruntled mood about the waning desire to be a member of the society, and, if so, what was their reply?

Steve

I wonder how many members of the Collector's Society are also regulars here on the forums or even members of the forums?

I'm a member of the Collector's Society, and will go on record to say that I am not disgruntled.
So if anyone does express this to HL on behalf of the forums, they are not speaking for me.

Judy

I really wonder if this public Legacy and the new newsletter are the beginning of the end of the HLCS. Not in the "essence" sense, but the "business" sense. Now that the HLCS has been boiled down to an exclusive, gift, and newsletter, I think that the extra lights will be eliminated and the newsletter will go public so that there is still a communication method.

I think that (and this is daring, I know) the HLCS is dead.

I think I'll make a poll on this debate over the public Legacy and we will see what the Forum members really think. Let's see where we really stand by casting your votes in "The Voting Booth Forum" right below this Forum.

Well, that's a good idea for a poll. It will show what the active members here feel, at least those of that group who aren't out of town or otherwise occupied.

What it won't show is what the actual HL Collector's Society members as a whole feel.

Judy

Rich,

Good idea. Make the poll.

bobo

Rich-
I just took your poll and I thought that question # 5 leaned a little toward the negative. There was no answer like "N/A" that wasn't slanted. And you could not leave it blank. Just thought I would mention it. Some other memebers may feel the same way. Anyway, the results were interesting and informative. Thanks for your effort.
Rich

Has anyone tried to print the Legacy? It sure looks like it would take a lot of ink. If I download it to my computer I probably will forget about it being there! I guess I am old-fashioned enough that I like to have things in my hands and read in other places than my computer room!
Judy

I DID.

IT DID.

AND I AGREE WITH YOU 100%

bobo

Maybe we can put together a group that chips in each issue to have someone make copies at Kinko's of the Legact for all who contributed. That way, save money. It's probably pretty cheap, too.

If you have a black and white laser printer, (and you can buy them now for net $49), it will use toner because some of the pages have background colors.

I have an inexpensive color laser printer (<$500) and it looks great in color. The operating cost for this printer is about $0.11 per page.

If you have an ink-jet color printer, you can choose to print it in black and white.

I investigated the cost of printing from the PDF at a copy shop. It's basically $0.49 per color page so 14 x $0.49 is about $7.00 + tax. That's probably not what you want to spend.

So do you want a black and white alternative without the background colors that you can print?

Color, but no backgrounds

All black & white - no backgrounds

Judy's points are well-taken. This poll will show how a specific group feels... at least it should.

But it reminds me of the polls often sent out by Congress. "We'll have gun control when they pry it from my cold dead hand... what's your position?" and the questions are all designed to to reinforce the sender's position.

You obviously have an opinion and it comes through in the poll.

When you're designing a survey, it must be from a neutral position and the answer choices have to cover the range of possible positions by everyone. Those in favor, those opposed, those with no opinion and those with a neutral opinion.

Don't misunderstand here. You are entitled to your position; it's clearly a valid one and there is some segment of the group that agrees. I'm NOT criticizing your position.

As for the 'exclusivity' of the Legacy for Society members: keeping a document that's posted online 'private' is like trying to put the genie back in the bottle. No way.

Someone, somewhere will pass the link and password on to a friend.

It would be very difficult to provide a common username and an individual password to each of the Society members.

Maybe an 'early peek' at the publication? Send a link to Society members and then post the link on the website 2 weeks later? Again, though, once several thousand people get the link, some will pass it on to those not on the 'early peek' list.

Wouldn't you have to be a member of the "HLCS" Gregory to be worried about this? :rolleyes:

Amen to that Bob. Good point!

I was once considering becoming a member, but these days, I have decided that there is no value in doing so. If I want the only benefits now, I can wait a year and get them cheap on eBay, or get them free on the HL website.

A few years ago, I would have joined if I wasn't 12 and didn't have the means to do so. However, through what I have learned from those who are members on this forum, the surrounding circumstances, as well as how similar situations have worked out, I have been able to formulate an opinion on the subject.

If it comes to pass that Harbour Lights (the company) is no more, I don't necessarily see that that's the end of the Collector's Society. There may well cease to be a connection to the company, but there are certainly a sufficient number of hard-core collectors to form their own society.

When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

If the time ever came for Harbour Lights, as we know it, to call it quits and close their retail operation through area dealers, there may be a possibility of them operating a mail order business dealing with LE's. Think about it. There may be enough of us faithful collectors out there to support a mail order business. I would still buy one of each HL. If they kept the edition sizes reasonable and didn't release too many pieces a year they could probably keep the LE business going. Such a move might also increase the value of some of the older pieces too.

Even if Harbour Lights called it quits, I would think their legacy of lights will live on far into the future. How valuable would older HL's be if new collectors knew they would never be manufactured again? They would certainly become more unique.

Bob

My hope is that HL stays in business for years to come. THey may not be making as many lights as before and I think that's a good thing. The smaller the number of an edtition the better it is for us the collectors. I buy only New England Lights and about 40 more from other areas that I like for many diverse reasons. I will continue to buy every New England light that HL makes and throw in a few others once in a while just because they strike my fancy.

Bert

I think we're being a litte premature in thinking that Harbour Lights will be calling it quits any time soon.
Are things changing? Absolutly. Bill wasn't / isn't going to work forever. He is certainly entitled to the retirement he has spent so many weekends travelling to save for. There's no doubt that the company has been turned over to the kids with Kim running the show. As with any change in leadership, there is some discomfort that comes with things not being what they were. Kim is a young woman and will need to make a go of this company if she ever plans on retiring as well.
I believe there are many things that Kim has learned from her father that she will bring with her. Kim is blessed with that inherent Younger charm. No matter how you slice it, there is still a personal touch to this company that is un-matched. For example, the day after pictures of my daughter Maggie appeared in the online Legacy, I recieved a non descript white envelope in the mail. I opened it to find oversized prints of the same photos enclosed, one of them signed by Kim. I didn't ask for them, they just sent them.

Kim will make the changes she see's fit to keep this company going and profitable. She will not be able to please everyone, but the lights will keep on coming and to me that's what counts most.

Isn't that what it's all about anyway? I guess you have to ask yourself, if there was no Colectors Society, no Harbour Lights web site, dare I say no Collectors Forums (heaven forbid!), would you still collect the lights?

I would. It would just be a little harder to do and certainly wouldn't be as fun.

Mike

"ATTENTION ON DECK!" ... I was able to open up the June online Legacy during my five minute break at work today. I must say I was thoroughly impressed! What great work!

I still prefer to receive it in the mail but if the other alternative is the online edition, I like it.

Bob

I agree with Mike regarding Kim and I am not thinking H.L. is ready to call it quits. Change is constant and we just have to keep reminding ourselves of that!
Judy