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What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4394 01/25/06 11:59 AM
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Gary Martin Offline OP
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I haven't been inclined to post here very often for many reasons but that is beside the point. I'm posting this now as a number of photographers that I know are rather distressed with the situation regarding the complete lack of responsiveness from John Chidester on accounting or any payment for the use of images in his Lighthouse Stickers project. I wouldn't have bothered to post this here, but since e-mails from many of us are being summarily ignored, a public forum seems to be an appropriate place to now air the issue.

It has been about 18 months since the last accounting of lighthouse sticker sales. E-mails to John requesting an update by me and others have gone unanswered. No one that I have corresponded with has seen any payment for the use of their photographs in this project since the one and only payment in July 2004. People who have asked to have their images removed have had little satisfaction. This is starting to look like blatant copyright infringement. It's about time that you started responding, John, and being considerably more responsible about your obligations to the photographers whose work you're exploiting to sell lighthouse stickers. We're all busy and I don't think any of us are going to be satisfied with that as an excuse for your unresponsive behavior... not after about 18 months! After all, you were in New England last week and if you have time for that, you need to make time for those to whom you have financial obligations.

We're waiting, John, what's going on?

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4395 01/25/06 01:40 PM
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Gary -

I tried to reach you by phone, but I must have an old number for you.

You are right about my neglect to keep you and the other 40 photographers whose images are part of Lighthouse Stickers informed on the status of this project.

There are many reasons, but no excuses. The sales have been up and down, right now they are very sparse, but it still hold potential.

To you and all the other participating photographers, including many of my forum friends, my apologies for neglecting your interests in this project.

My promise is to provide a reconciliation of sales to all of the photographers by February 15 and to compensate each of you by the end of February, if not by the 15th.

I invested hundreds of hours in developing this program and need to resurrect it. I will let you all know how that will be accomplished in my email on February 15.

Sincerely,

John

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4396 01/25/06 02:48 PM
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It's been at least two years since I've posted here, and I have missed corresponding with many of you on this board.

The impetus for Gary's comment was a post I made on Lighthousing.net last week, and just so everyone knows what's going on, I will quote that post here. Our problems go way beyond a lack of accounting.....


Quote:
My involvement with this business venture began in August of 2003 after an open call for images to be used on the stickers. I submitted several images, a few of which were used on the stickers. I noticed that my e-mails weren't answered very quickly (unless I was offering something helpful to the business, then it was like lightning), but I wrote it off to the amount of work I figured it was taking to get this thing off the ground.

Over time I submitted one or two more images to be used, and my total number of stickers was small, like 7 or 8. After several months I noticed that I had not recieved the set of my stickers that every pohotographer had been proised at the onset. I asked about this, and again my e-mails were ignored. I found that if I really wanted a response, I would have to send an e-mail 5-6 times and become a pest.

I never recieved my set of stickers and I noticed that there had been no accounting of sales for several months. I asked about this and again was ignored. Finally one accounting of sales was sent out on 6-2-2004. (yes, nearly a year after the project began).

I stuck with it until late 2004, but the continued lack of accounting information and ignored correspondence pushed me to the edge of my patience and I asked that my images immediately be removed from the web site and that they no longer be used for any reason by this company. This request and numerous follow ups were ignored, eventually I was answered in an impatient fashion on 11-23-04. In this answer I was told that I would recieve a final accounting of sales, my promised set of stickers, and all of my images would be removed from the site. As I feared and expected, this did not happen. The closest thing to action that has been taken was when my photographer page was removed, but my individual images were (and are to this day) still in the main listing and available for purchase.

It is now January of 2005 and it has been more than one year since I made it clear that this company is now using my copyrighted images without permission, which is a clear violation of copyright law. I have sent e-mails repeatedly, and even a certified letter demanding that this company stop using my copyrighted images, but I have been ignored. It is obvious that this business has no regard for copyright law or the rights of photographers.

Since I have a life I have not kept up with this issue like I should have, and I have let months go by without even thinking about it because I just plain have a lot going on. However, this does not excuse the illegal activity that is to this day being committed by this company.

We've had lengthy discussions on this board before about copyright and how it applies to us as photographers, here's a real world example of it being abused and exploited. Now if I want to take action I have to hire an attorney and file a lawsuit in a court thousands of miles from my home. Not a pleasant prospect....

For anyone who is a contributing photographer, I can only suggest that you stand up for yourself and don't let yourself get bullied, insulted, or marginalized like I have. I can't imagine that I am the only one who has had such issues, but I hope mine is the worst. Demand accountability by the business in all matters, whether it is convenient for the proprietor or not.

I have kept this to myself (and one close friend and advisor) for well over a year now, and it feels good to get it all out in the open. I only hope that in telling you of my troubles, you can avoid them yourself.
In short, John, since I can't get a reply from you on e-mail, I must publicly demand that you remove all of my images immediately from your site. You are violating the law and there is no excuse for it. I don't want any more excuses or proimses, just do it. Once it's done you personally can rest assured you'll never hear from me again. (that doesn't mean I won't visit this board from time to time, there are some great friends here)

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4397 01/26/06 02:38 AM
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Lighten up Mike. I think your remarks are very inappropriate about John Chidester on this forum and is uncalled for. If you read the posts you will see where John is taking care of the problem. It will be resolved by Feb.15. Give the man a chance. He has been involed in moving and was sick for a while. John has always been a man of his word. We would not be having these forums if it was not for John. My hats off to John. Mike you have a too short of a fuse and need to lenghten it. I hope this is not causing hard feelings but it is my opinion and hope you will still participate on this forums. Hal

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4398 01/26/06 03:14 AM
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Too short a fuse, are you really serious??? Look at the dates in my post and try to say that again with a straight face. I demanded he stop using my trademarked images OVER A YEAR AGO!!!! But I've kept it to myself, I've tried to work with John, and where has it gotten me? Nowhere! John is breaking the law, end of story. (17 USC 504(c))

I think if anything I'm guilty of being far too lenient in that I haven't taken John into federal court (where my attorney told me copyright suits are tried) on it yet. If you think making a civil post on a bulletin board is overreacting in this situation then I guess you're entitled to your opinion, no matter how ludicrous it may seem to me.

I've recieved numerous e-mails and private messages from this board and lighthousing.net, all from photographers saying that they're in the same boat and they're fed up with the way they've been treated. I guess since I'm the one with the backbone to stand up first and make it public, then I'm the bad guy. Well, so be it.

As for John's being too busy for the last 18 months, hogwash. I'm working full time plus in an extremely dangerous and stressful job, plus part time work, plus moving a couple months ago, plus taking care of my wife who is on bed rest because she's pregnant with triplets, plus preparing our house and life for said triplets. Don't you dare talk to me about busy.

I figured I'd get a cool response on this board, but like I said, if I have to bbe the bad guy in order to stand up for everyone else, so be it.

(btw, I still haven't heard a sylable from John, even after all this. Are you still too busy John???)

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4399 01/26/06 03:20 AM
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Well, I'm going to put in my two cents. This certainly is not the place for airing such grievances. I am sure your attorney can advise you about the proper place for this. Good luck with your stressful life.


beachcomber
Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4400 01/26/06 03:56 AM
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Mike Hershberger Offline
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So it's the proper place for John to solicit photographs and advertise the project, but not for those involved to criticize it?

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4401 01/26/06 09:07 AM
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You folks at lighthouse.net sure get excited about the smallest of things. We're not talking four, five, or six figures here. We're talking about pocket change if that.

I further believe that personal problems should be worked out in private and not in this semi-public forum. The Internet is a wonderful thing to locate information about people, addresses, and phone numbers. Such resources should be utilized to locate and converse with an individual before attacking an individual's credibility.

Do your homework, Mike. Hire an investigator to work with your attorney and find out exactly how many of your images were sold and what profit those sales have generated after start up costs. Be prepared to prove that the pics being used are truly your images and not the images of people who went to that exact same spot and took roughly the exact same picture. What's that you say? Such a route would be cost prohibitive? It would cost a hundred times what you may actually be entitled to at this point?

I don't think John got rich selling stamps of your images or anyone else's, including mine. Your initial investment amounted to sending him photos you already had and were not a hot commodity on the retail market.

Perhaps you had a dream that the income from your pics might pay for a night out every once in awhile. It didn't happen. Perhaps John had a dream that this whole lighthouse sticker thing would take off and he would be able to take care of all those involved. It didn't happen.

All I know is thanks to the exposure I've received through the efforts of John have led to my images being published in a "coffee table" book about New England Lighthouses, my photos being published with an article I wrote for Cape Cod Life magazine, and I'm currently contracted for another article with Cape Cod Life for their August 2006 edition. I'm still smiling!

Don't sweat the small stuff, Mike. What's meant to be is meant to be. Patience is a virtue. All things come to those who wait. Hmmm??? Maybe I should start a Chinese fortune cookie business. Anybody with me?

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4402 01/26/06 10:59 AM
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I think that this tread ought to be closed where it is right now so it doesn't get out of hand like a certain one last year.


Rich
Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4403 01/26/06 11:00 AM
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Gary Martin Offline OP
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Hal, had I not raised the issue here in the first place, after cutting John slack for 18 months, there wouldn't be any commitment to do anything about it. A lot of e-mails from a lot of people have been universally ignored by John pertaining to the lighthouse stickers project, which is why I chose to raise the issue on this forum. As far as health problems and moving... yep, I've had both of those in my life but that didn't excuse me from my commitments nor does it in John's case.

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4404 01/26/06 11:34 AM
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Bob, where we post makes no difference, whether it be here or there. Its a matter of proper business practice and ethics. Agreements were signed. John has obligations he has not lived up too. I contacted John 1 year ago today about an accounting. He said he would get to it in 10 days. 1 year = 10 days? Yes, For some of us its short money, for others its not so short. Bob, you got something out of the Lighthouse Stickers, exposure. That is worth alot. Others haven't been so lucky. None of us thought we were going to make a fortune on this venture. We just want whats due. Hire an investigator and a lawyer? I'm sure some already have. If any of the images are registered with the US Copyright Office, John could be in a SERIOUS hole.

Hal & Grace, Mike comments were appropriate. He was just blunt. He is fustrated with John's lack of communication as are many others. He is using a public forum to get his attention after not getting anywhere privately. Obviously you have no stake in this.

The project started roughly 8/2003. The only accounting of sales ANYONE recieved was in 6/2004.

John, please deal with this quickly.


Lighthouse Joe

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4405 01/26/06 11:43 AM
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I accept the responsibility and consequences of not having responded to numerous emails about the status of the Lighthouse Stickers projects - from several of the photographers. Not having an answer or an up-to-date reconciliation was the reason, but not a good excuse.

I'm embarassed and sorry that this laundry is getting aired here, but accept the consequences.

Mike, I did remove your page of pictures when you asked, and thought I had removed your six images from the state of Michigan page at the time you requested that months ago. I see that 2 of those images are still showing on the Michigan page - Frying Pan and South Manitou. I'll remove those today. If you see any others, please let me know.

(Mike I didn't respond to your post by email, I did email Gary that I had responded to his post. I figured you both were 'working together' on this and you'd see my response -- which you did.' All photographers will get an email from me with the reconciliation.)

Mike, my incomplete reconciliation (complete through Aug 2005) shows I owe you $2.55 for the use of your 6 images (out of about 800.) Since your images of less-often visited lighthouses are generally not sold unless as part of a complete Michigan or LP or UP set of stickers, I'll send you a MO for $2.55 now and if, in the final reconciliation I owe you more, I'll send an additional amount.

Gary, my August 05 reconciliation shows I owe you $50.20 for use of your images. I'll send you that amount in a MO now and an additional amount of what is due after February 15.

If there are any other participating photographers who would like a MO for the amount due now rather than after February 15 based on the reconciliation I have through August, 2005, I'll be happy to send that now (and any additional amount after final reconciliation). Just email me at chidester@lighthousestickers.com

Gary and Mike, please email me your mailing addresses for the payments.

Joe, your post slipped in as I was drafting this reponse. If you want an interim payment ($13,80), please let me know by email.

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4406 01/26/06 12:07 PM
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Rich, you just don't give up do you? Let's delete the thread before people actually see the truth, right?

And Bob, lumping people into "lighthousing.net" is something you just don't want to do, go away.

I should think this between John and the photographers in Lighthouse Stickers. Major things are happening on this front and John needs to be aware of it. John please include me on that list of photographers.

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4407 01/26/06 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RossTracy:
John please include me on that list of photographers.
Include you in the list to receive an interim payment, Ross? Is that what you are asking? Please email me per my most recent post including your mailing address. Your interim earnings are $3.40.

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4408 01/26/06 12:52 PM
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I've been watching and reading both threads, here on LN for the past few days. I am one that does not like confrontation, or to be a whistle-blower, which is why I haven't stepped up to the plate. I have just as many images involved with this project as Bruce Roberts, and more than Gary and Mike combined, with over 60 of my photos being used.

I never had any expectations about getting rich from John's project. Rich, shutting down this thread because the truth is coming out and might get a bit interesting is not the right thing to do. Not all discussions are pleasant, and this is one that needs to be addressed and made aware to other photographers and members of the CF. I would agree that emails and phone calls would be the first route to take, but since I have gotten nowhere, like the others, this was the only way to get some answers.

Since becoming involved with the LS project, I was estatic about my images being used for this fabulous idea John came up with. Every time I would stop in a lighthouse or a gift shop with lighthouse merchandise, I would either talk up LS or get the information on who did the buying for that particular location and pass it along to John so he could send out a sample packet and hopefully get the project into more shops and out on the market. John had asked me for updates on several of my images that I had taken better shots of, and sent them to him over a year ago, and my page never got updated. He asked me to re-upload them six months later, and they still didn't get replaced. My page has not been updated in a year.

I emailed him back in September, asking what the status was with LS, and never got a reply. I emailed again in mid-December, and still didn't get one. I even called and spoke with his wife on Sunday, not realizing he was out of town, and still never got a response back to my phone call or my email, asking him to call me. I really wanted to talk about this in person, as I also consider John a good friend, but my frustration is also reaching it's limit, if it hasn't gotten there already.

As some of you know, I have started a new website, showcasing my images through different gift products on Cafepress. When I type my name into a search engine such as Google, LS comes up #3, and my account on Photo.net comes up #1. I was once proud to be in that spot and involved with this project, but no longer. It should now be my new website in that rank, which I am working on through keyword placement and search engine optimization.

John, I have seriously considered yanking my images from this project as well. Not so much for the copyright issue, because I know you well enough that you would never exploit me in that way. However, I want to be a part of a growing business and getting my name out into something that is being marketed and not sat on. Absolutely nothing has been done with this since summer of 2004. You and I have had many discussions about marketing LS, and you started with a fantastic idea that I think still has some potential, IF you concentrate on it. I think you can still make a difference for the 2006 selling season. You have the connections and the means to do so, but I think you are going to need to prove to me and the many other disgruntled photographers in this project that you need to turn this project around 180 degrees or you're going to have to shut it down, because I know I won't be the only one to pull my images. Please seriously consider what your business plan is going to be the next 9 months and I would like to see it outlined and acted upon.

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4409 01/26/06 02:47 PM
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John, I appreciate that you're taking care of this, and it's truly unfortunate that it had to come to this point.

Bob, I never expected to get rich off this, I was just trying to help John out. It's not about the money, it's about what's right and what's wrong. And it's also not about one board's members against another's. I know it's easy to just brush it off as some kind of a grudge by lighthousing.net members against this board, but that's sadly shortsighted and just plain silly. This is about photographers from BOTH boards who feel that they've been taken advantage of and wanted it to stop. Is that really so unreasonable? And is it also unreasonable to post on a public forum after private attempts at communication were ignored for so long? What would you have us do, just sit back and wait forever?

I find it amazing that people are saying how inappropriate it was to post this publicly here, that I should just investigate and sue quietly. I can't imagine the uproar if that actually happened.... I'd be asked why I had to handle it in the courts, not one on one with John or at least a post on the board.

I've tried to handle this in a civil and professional manner and for that I get bashed. Yes, the response did make me mad, and my reply was very blunt after that. I never made any personal attacks against John and neither did anyone else, facts were stated regarding the present situation. In my post on lighthousing.net I intentionally left his name out of it because I didn't want it to turn into this. And in response I recieved comments like ...

Quote:
Good luck with your stressful life
I don't think I'm the one who should be ashamed about what's been posted here and I stand by everything I said. I can hold my head high knowing that I have taken the high road and the mud that has been slung is not on my hands.

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4410 01/26/06 07:50 PM
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I am in the same boat as Jenifer. I to asked for every buyer in every lighthouse I visited. I have not seen one sticker anywhere. I also asked for the samples promised I did recieve them last month. It took a very long time and many emails which never got answered. The money will not make me rich and a business takes time to get going. Its great when my husband shows the sticker site to others they are so impressed. I to got in the book for New England Lighthouses. John also asked for pictures at 600 DPI to upgrade and I sent him a disk and don't know if he got them. They where not updated. John nobody has anything but the highest regards for you, just please keep us in the loop and answer our emails. I will still stick with you and see what will happen. I also think people should be able to post there thoughts if they can't get answers. Gary and Mike sure did get a response after much frustration. Now we can move on. John make us some money I need a new lens wink

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4411 01/27/06 02:17 AM
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Thanks John

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4412 01/27/06 02:24 AM
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And John, I have little concern for what a few of the individuals on here have to say after the last time I offered assistance and asked questions.

I'm always happy to post on the LH.net forums exactly what I think, and allow others to do so, but I don't arbitrarily censor threads because a few misinformed individuals say I should. I would be embarrassed at Bob and Rich's comments, and I always invite them to make them, just don't hide smile

Lighthouse Stickers was a good idea and something I thought would be great, I have 6 images, big deal, right? So it's obviously not about money for me. I think you had a great idea that had potential, I would be curious to see what the future holds for it.

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4413 01/27/06 05:07 AM
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Ross - I still don't understand your request. Do you want an interim payment now - or wait until Feb 15?

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4414 01/27/06 08:16 PM
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Sorry I meant to email you, I'll wait. I just wanted to be updated on the status of things. Thanks John

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4415 01/28/06 03:06 AM
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I posted this excerpt over on LH.net for those that don't lurk over there -

"I think the biggest reason I'm so frustrated with the Lighthouse Stickers project is because of the way things went with the matted print sale on LHK for the 2004 CF Support Drive. If any of you would like to do some reading, here you are:

http://www.lighthousekeepers.com/cgi-bin/forumscgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000341

I'm posting this link for reference only - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!! DO NOT start yet another discussion about something in the past that has already happened and is water under the dam. If any of you would like to express your opinion about it, please email me privately. If Dave Hannum hadn't have taken over for the 2005 CF Support Drive, I would not have participated with my time and prints again. John has lost a lot of credibility over the last couple of years with a lot of the CF members and the LS project is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I think I've been PLENTY patient and this is also why I am glad that Mike brought this public because it's not the first time it's happened with a major project that John has undertaken with and let lapse this badly."

That whole 2004 print sale was dragged out for MONTHS on something that should have been wrapped up in two month's time. It was very frustrating not only for me, but for a lot of the CF members that purchased prints and never received product (Rich, is the link above the thread you were referring to?) in a timely manner. I don't like to dredge up the past, but for those of you that are having a problem with us photographers voicing our opinions over the Lighthouse Stickers project on a public forum, remember your frustration over the 2004 print sale, and the lack of updates, and delay of product, and how the big print drawing never happend until August when it was deadlined for May 1, because that is how the photographers that are voicing their frustration over this feel.

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4416 01/28/06 04:56 AM
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Hey BobM, don't you hate it when your own words come back to haunt you...

Quote:
I have to agree with you, Rich. I find nothing wrong with posting a problem that needs addressing. Pam was also right about trying an email but when that didn't work, a direct but polite inquiry posted at the CF was the way to go. It might also encourage someone else who may have been overlooked to respond.

No one is infallible. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Sow how is this different from that situation????

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4417 01/28/06 02:45 PM
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Over on lighthousing.net (yes, I've been reading it for the last few days), Mike posted a "can't we all get along" message.

Mike - it was your message, so rather than my posting it here, please do so yourself.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry for the members of this forum whose opinions were criticized.

I'm the one at fault. Let's get past criticizing one another for our opinions and get back to working together for the lighthouse community.

I'm sorry to the photographers whose trust I have hurt. I had/have your permission to use your photographs.

This is not a copyright issue; it's a payment per our unwritten agreement. That will be resolved soon. If enough want to stay with the project, I'll resurrect it; if too many want to drop out, I won't be able to do so. More about that when I send out emails on/before February 15.

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4418 01/28/06 05:06 PM
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You're right John, we should put this behind us.

I just thought it was interesting to see the shoe on the other foot and I tought others would find it revealing as well.

As for it not being a copyright issue, in the spirit of putting this behind us, I'll e-mail you about that one. Now that we're comunicating again I don't think it needs to be done here.

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4419 01/31/06 05:10 PM
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I thought I'd let everyone here know that I have spoken to John privately and we have settled our dispute over the stickers. My images have been removed from the site and I am satisfied. (The accounting was never an issue for me and I'm not worried about when that will happen)

I'm glad to be able to post some positive news on this front, as it's definitely been an unpleasant situation for all involved. Now I just hope that we will be able to get past it and move on.

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4420 02/15/06 05:47 PM
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Gary Martin Offline OP
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Just as an FYI for folks who have any form of vested interst in the Lighthouse Stickers project -- somewhere between 2-2:30 Eastern time today I had an e-mail from John reconciling where things stood with the use of my images for the Lighthouse Stickers project as promised by John somewhere above in this thread. If others haven't heard from John yet, I suspect that you will shortly.

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4421 02/15/06 07:30 PM
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fra02441 Offline
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I also got an email from John.

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4422 02/16/06 03:26 AM
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Jenifer Selwa Offline
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Here as well.

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4423 02/16/06 11:06 AM
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Everyone got the same email with their personal information on sales & compensation. All sent out at 11:35 a.m. yesterday (except for one whose email address I got today and have now sent.) (Thanks Jen) wink

Re: What's the story on Lighthouse Stickers, John? #4424 02/16/06 05:18 PM
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Not that it has anything to do with this thread, But I see that the new L.H. Depot cover has been graced with a Gary Martin Photo, Nice shot Gary!


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