I'm not sure this is the place to post this question but we are frustrated and concerned at the same time. Last May we paid for the new Survival Guide and quarterly newsletter Jim R. puts out. We have received nothing and attempts at leaving phone messages have failed likewise e-mail messages.
So...did anyone receive the 2000 survival guide? What happened to the newsletters? Can anyone shed some light on this matter?

This question was asked of me by an avid HL Collector & friend who has been getting them since the beginning. I, unfortunately, didn't have an answer for him either but just wanted to let you know that you are not alone.

Ron
(CT Keeper)

Thanks for the reminder! I purchased a HL from Julie Rutherford on Ebay in March. When it arrived there was a complimentary copy of the newsletter (Fall 1999) with a cover letter about the newsletter and the survival guide. I sent them a check for both. I did receive one issue in late April. It was the winter 2000 issue. I have not received anything since. I had completely forgotten about it until I saw your post.

I think I will send an Email and see if I get any response.

Jim Thomas

Please see this link in another forum: http://www.lighthousekeepers.com/forums/Forum18/HTML/000250.html

It explains that Jim has a new job and the guide has been delayed a bit.
Jim
Johnson

Thanks Jim for the link to a past forum. I checked the forums off and on this summer to see if anyone posted a similiar concern but somehow missed it. Jim and Julie have always delivered as someone mentioned; that's what concerned us. We were hoping nothing tragic happened in their family. You always start thinking the worst when you do not hear from people that are reliable. Hopefully, the newsletter and guide will come sometime in September.

Is the guide out, I ordered it in July and am still waiting!!

Pharologst


[This message has been edited by pharologst (edited 09-30-2000).]

I was thinking just last night about asking the same question.I have sent mail phoned and no answer.I sent an Email it remained unread.I tried sending a second Email last week,when I pressed the send button it came this adress not @aol.com the first of last week I saw an ad on the lighthouse depot page for survivor's guide 2000.something must have happened.
oseabee :-(

Anybody got in news about the survival guide???

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[This message has been edited by pharologst (edited 10-05-2000).]

Don't fret Pharo.I sent my order and check
in May 2d and still waiting.glad to get some info through the forums.oseabee

Does anyone have any update on guide or similar reference book?

I also have been waiting since May but am now just hoping to get one some day.Also I have seen the harbour lights green book on the green books page of the links,just once then it was gone also saw it listed on light house depot web site and next time gone.What gives with these book people this year.
Bill O'Brien oseabee

At the last chat, Maureen mentioned that HL has been in touch with Jim Rutherford about the guide and newsletter and Jim hopes to have the book out next month (November).

The Green Book was last published in 1998; word is they do not have plans for another one.

Checkerbee (formerly Value Guide) has plans to update their guide book for 2001.

According to LH Depot who retails this item, the Survival Guide is not available and HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED BY ITS SOURCE. (NOTE THE LAST THREE WORDS in bold) As I paid by credit card, I'm getting a refund. Others who used a check may have more trouble getting your funds.

Many of our members seem to know the fellow who puts this out, but at the risk of being cold-shouldered, I'd like to say he has had blatant disregard for his customers.


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[This message has been edited by pharologst (edited 10-29-2000).]

As pharologst mentioned I believe many members have not wanted to run the risk of being "cold-shouldered". However, pharologst you speak for many of us who feel the Rutherfords have had a blatant disregard for their customers. I believe this would fall under the category of mail fraud as many Harbour Lights collectors have paid for a guide and newsletter and have received nothing in return. I'm sure no one wants to go this route but what else can we do? It would be great to finally receive the guide and newsletter in November but I'm not counting on it.

I'm pulling this back up because November is almost behind us (just 7 months 'til summer!).

Has anyone received a Survival Guide or heard anything about it? If it's truly defunct, we've lost a great source of information and commentary.

According to Lighthouse Depot, they were told by the source (Rutherford's), it no longer is available. I'm of the opinion that I probably don't want it even if it was available, based upon the business practices to-date.

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[This message has been edited by pharologst (edited 11-20-2000).]

Well the Rutherfords are getting too much favorable publicity out of this thread. I bought a survival guide way back when but did not subcribe to the news letter.

In all fairness to the Rutherfords, don't jump to any conclusions. Things happen that can concern them much more than getting the guide and newsletter to those who purchased it.

In all fairness to those who paid for something they didn't get, an explanation is in order and probably a refund to.

I hope this happens soon so everyone will be satisfied and forget the whole thing. IMHO

Bob

It seems that there are all kinds of excuses
being made about why the Rutherfords have taken our money for both the newsletter and the Survival Guide and not delivered on either one. IMHO there is no reason, short of death, that they should take our money and leave us hanging for all of these months with no explanation. I, and I'm sure many others, have sent eMails and they don't even have the consideration to respond. I am sure we could all live with a reasonabe explanation (and a refund if they can't deliver).

Julie Fox Rutherford is still alive and well and selling HL's on Ebay. I would suggest that everyone on these Forums who has sent them money send her an email. Her address as listed on eBay is juliefoxr@aol.com.

Jim Thomas

I've asked before but thought i would again......any news on the guide? Shame, I thought it was really well done. Anybody else considering picking up where the Rutherford's left off? I'll commit to being your first subscriber if that will help!

Sounds like that might be an interesting project for someone who has enough time to handle such a thing. Apparently the interest is there. Most of the research has been done. Would it be a money-maker? If it was, someone would already be doing it.

Let the Rutherfords rest in peace. There is no sense in beating a dead horse.

Bob

Those people that have paid upfront for the Survival Guide and the Guiding Light are certainly entitled to their opinions. The Rutherfords were and might still be registered members of this forum. I am quite appauled and shocked that this much time has gone buy and not the slightest explanation for what the delay has been given. I met Jim many years ago when I collected Department 56. I trust that he is doing the very best that he can. He has always put out a very good and thought provoking product!

We will let the Rutherfords rest in peace when we get our refund. You can't take money from people and hold it for 7 months without any explanation. We deserve a refund! As I mentioned before this is MAIL FRAUD!!

.

[This message has been edited by pharologst (edited 11-29-2000).]

Sounds like you guys are quite upset. How much money was sent for the guide and newsletter?

Bob

I don't think that the amount in dollars is the point.

I think that people are disapointed that even after the rutherfords have been made aware that there is a problem they have done nothing to address it.
It's a matter of not being treated with respect by someone who in the past has shown themselves to be honorable people.

I think most would have been very understanding if any explanation for the delay was forthcoming. It's the complete disregard for others that has some perturbed.

IMHO.

Dennis

I really hate this. I had bought the Survival guide and newsletter last year when I first got into collecting the lighthouses and truly enjoyed it. It was a tremendous help to me. My first experience with Jim was when I had just started collecting, and I found two Boston Harbor lighthouses. I didn't know anything about the value or what to look for, as far as chips, flakes, or fading. I contacted Jim from the number that I got from Harbour Lights, and he was very helpful. Even agreed to buy one of them from me if I changed my mind. I then met him at one of the Atlanta events and he was very polite. I don't know why, but I didn't repurchase his stuff this year, and now I know why when reading what has happened to you all. Harbour Lights may know what is going on, because even though Jim didn't work for them, they definatly were in contact with him..

Anyway, I hate to see this happen, and I at least hope you get your money back, and hopefully something bad hasn't happened to Jim. A mess could really be cleared up if he would just tell everyone what was going on.

Rusty

Rusty.....I agree. I dealt with both of the Rutherfords briefly when I purchased some lights from them last year. They were very helpful and informative. Who knows what happened but I do not intend to pass judgement over anyone for a few bucks. I would hate to find out later that something terrible happened. I am sure in time the explanation will come out. In the meantime I could use an updated guide like Jim produced.

This has been my only bad experience as a Harbour Lights Collector. A postcard telling us whats up would suffice, or a posting. I'm kind of surprised based on past history of these people and have been quietly watching everybodys response, expecting the situation to correct itself. I'm still optimistic. I still beleive in Santa Claus, maybe he'll bring it?

Like Dennis has previously stated, it is not so much the money as the principle of taking money without delivering a product. Like many of you, I have purchased several of their guide books and the quarterly newsletter. I always enjoyed the updates and helpful information. I had positive dealings with Jim and Julie on the purchase of lighthouses.

I would have to guess that they received several thousand dollars in book orders and newsletter renewals. Any kind of acknowledgement for the delay would go a long way to soothe the ruffled feathers of people who sent money in good faith to the Rutherford's.

As part of income tax preparation came across our copies of two checks mailed to "The Nautical Exchange" for The Guiding Lights ($12.00 1/18/00) and The Harbour Lights Survival Guide 6th Edition ($19.50 5/18/00). Haven't received the newsletters or the guide. It may not be a lot of money for one subscriber, but multiply that dollar amount by a minimum of several hundred subscribers and it's no longer small change.

Has anyone heard anything from the Rutherfords? We met the Rutherfords at the first HL Reunion and again in Dallas at a Collector's Jubilee. They are great people. We can't imagine them showing such utter disregard for their customers and fellow HL collectors. We are surprised that we haven’t heard anything from them as they have our snail mail address and our e-mail address.


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Tom & Joyce

[This message has been edited by Tom and Joyce Abbott (edited 01-06-2001).]

Tom & Joyce: I guess you can't really tell a book from its cover. Th Rutherfords have had AMPLE time and opportunity to respond the hundreds of requests on what happened to both the Guide and the collected money. They apparently have elected to ignore, abuse, and cheat their customers. We each are all out a modest amount that when added up could be considered a major mail-fraud case.

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[This message has been edited by pharologst (edited 01-17-2001).]

Maybe they will re-appear in Baltimore?????

Considering what has been written about the Rutherfords and the missing refunds or a fulfilled subscription, I don't think it would be in their best interest to show up at Baltimore this fall.



2beacons

Hey Len, ....I doubt you'll see an appearence by those folks in Baltimore. With all the complaints about them on this forum and email sent directly to them, I think they will pass on coming to the reunion.

Bob

Hi Len!!!!

Jim and Julie used to be quite active in our local Harbour Lights group - North Georgia Beacon Brigades...about the time this thread appeared, they dropped out of active participation in the Club. Julie was one of the officers, but resigned late last year...no sightings around here!

I know that this has problem has been around for a while, but I just received an e-mail from one of our club members about Jim's Survival Guide & Newsletter. It seems that her checks were cashed and she has received nothing in the form of guide or newsletter and no answers to her e-mails to the Rutherfords.

I guess my question to those who sent checks to the Rutherfords for the newsletter and guide is -- have they been cashed?

I guess that I thought that they had not been cashed, but in our club member's case they were. If anyone hears anything, please let us know as I would like to help get her money back.

Thanks,

Patty



[This message has been edited by Kaiz (edited 03-15-2001).]

Our checks were definitely cashed. Total loss for us was $31.50 for The Guiding Lights (check for $12.00 dated 1/18/00) and The Harbour Lights Survival Guide 6th Edition (check for $19.50 dated 5/18/00).

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Tom & Joyce

Our check for the Guide and the Newsletter was cashed - right away.

Barb

I guess you can't really tell a book from its cover. Th Rutherfords have had AMPLE time and opportunity to respond the hundreds of requests on what happened to both the Guide and the collected money. They apparently have elected to ignore, abuse, and cheat their customers. We each are all out a modest amount that when added up could be considered a major mail-fraud case.



[This message has been edited by pharologst (edited 03-15-2001).]

Our checks were cashed right away also. Needless to say, I am sure we will not see the Rutherfords in Baltimore.

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Randall Ronne

In my case, my check was cashed promptly in Jan 2000. I did not recieve anything for over 6 weeks so I sent an email (HLSG@aol.com). Because we were both on AOL I was able to know when my emails were read. I did get a response after three attempts over a couple weeks(and with increasingly hostile tone to my messages). I did receive the 5th Ed. of the Survival Guide and one newsletter last spring.

I have been following this thread but have not made any comments until now. I feel I am owed 3 more newsletters but I also feel I was not ripped off as much as others here. I will however be willing to add my voice to any legal action the group may wish to pursue...and I think it should be pursued.

Patty, I hate to be negative, but I wouldn't hold up too much hope that you will be able to do much to help your group member.

Doc John

I didn't order the guide, but I'm still furious that this kind of fraud has occurred from what we all thought was "one of our own."

Sounds like it might make sense to gather names of everyone who got ripped off...see how big the list is and, if it makes sense, hire somebody to find and prosecute the Rutherfords. Any legal counsel or investigators among us collectors who might know how to track them down?

Perhaps the Harbour Lights office might have info on them?

One more thought: Since orders came from all over the country, perhaps this constitutes Interstate fraud (is that the right term?) and may allow the Feds to step in and at least track 'em down with that giant people-tracking computer they have.

[This message has been edited by Bill Harnsberger (edited 03-16-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Bill Harnsberger (edited 03-16-2001).]

In my opinion, the place to start would be with the U.S. Postal Inspection Service to allege mail fraud. Then one could try the Attorney General's Office for the state in which they live to see if they have some kind of consumer protection section.



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Ken T

As Cruise Director of the General Forum, I feel I have to ask us to be careful as to what we write and not open the forum up to possible slander. I have asked St. John to decide if what is being written is safe for the website.

Joanne

Since Mr. Rutherford had advertised his book in these forums in the fall of 1999, I do feel it is appropriate to discuss here the frustration of those of us who have been left in the lurch so to speak.

I do think we should avoid threats (even if joking) and abusive language when discussing them. But I also think we should consider making an effort to officially organize this and begin to stop ventilating here (its obviously hasn't led anywhere in the past 7 months to getting the problem solved). We need to work on taking the next step in approprate legal action if we are truly upset by this behavior.

Doc John

Joanne, Doc hit the nail on the head in all respects. The only thing I tend to differ on with your note is on "possible slander". NOTHING written thus far by anyone can be considered slanderous since it is true! Have The Rutherfords taken the money and run? Unoquivically (sp?)Yes. I don't see these forums in any jeopardy whatsoever. A more organized approach by those who wish to pursue it may be in order and should start with the Postal Service who can supply the direction from there. After all $20 X 1000 is BIG$.



[This message has been edited by pharologst (edited 03-16-2001).]

Please know that I am not disagreeing with anyone and even though I have never purchased either item, I definitely feel for those who have not gotten what they paid for. I am just trying to be a good moderator and looking out for my forum.

Joanne

Joanne has a good point. Bad joke. Post amended.

Perhaps we could just chalk this up to experience. I would hate to think something other than fraud happened with the Rutherfords, and we are hammering away at them.

I too, have been cheated out of newsletters, but I am willing to accept my loss and lick my wounds.

I have been cheated out of far worse in life than $12.95 or whatever price it was, that this is not worth pursuing.

Think of how the Rutherfords have lost their lighthouse family if they indeed have chose to defraud us. Think of how terrible we would feel if they are in another situation that is uncontrollable. I , for one, enjoy theis "lighthouse family feel" that we have going on, and hope we all can forgive and forget. Isn't that the feeling the Youngers would want us to have?

Pam

I think, as has been stated before, that for most it is the fact that no response of any kind has been made over a significant period of time.

We are, for the most part, a very understanding group of individuals. We would accept just about any reason, good or bad, for not having recieved what we expected. I suspect it's not the money lost, it's the feeling of community that has been trampled by the non response. As was stated before, this was "one of our own family" that has done this to us. It's not some large faceless entity.

Just a thought or two.

Dennis

We've reached 50 and since this is a hot topic, I've started a Part 2:
http://www.lighthousekeepers.com/forums/Forum1/HTML/000929.html