The news is out their is another size Harbour Lights Lighthouse the Mini. How many sizes do we need, as in want? Is it getting out of control?

Too Many Sizes, Too Little Money!

Always I have the samp problem.

I think I will start the mini's for my 12 year old son. He has really enjoyed watching me collect. He met Bill in Springfield MO and was given an ornament as a gift. What a marketing guru that BY, now my son seems to be hooked, too.

Since I am still in that famous Get'm All mindset, maybe I will have more luck if I start early on the mini's.

For me, I will stay with the American limiteds and ornaments.

Also, what is the scoop on the internationals becoming a seperate line?

Thanks, Suzee

I would suspect that future collectors of HLs will probably buy LEs, LEs & OEs, or maybe just the new forthcoming "Minis". The yearly financial committment is growing and almost to the point where the average collector might have to pass on having everything HL offers.

Although I haven't seen the quality of the soon to be released "Minis", I would think some new collectors might just purchase those instead of trying to get all the LEs and possibly the Glows too.

Bob

Due to current limited living area, I am unable to display too many LE or GLOW lights at any one time. With the MINIs I may purchase more in order to display a greater variety of lights and save the LEs or GLOWs for those very special lighthouses, or those that I visit. I generaly prefer smaller collectibles, with great quality, as that means I can display more at one time and can also fill in small nooks and crannies with them.

------------------
Jim

Dr. Who ?

This is the "Pharos" line that has been discussed on these Forums a few months back. This will be primarily intended for marketing outside the US - starting in England and Germany. No decision yet on whether these will be limited or not. Some indications they will be more 'GLOW'-sized. No word on whether ALL future non-US intros will instead be introduced by "Pharos" and not Harbour Lights. (Again NO decision has been made.)

And no decision has been made about offering Pharos to US Harbour Lights dealers or not.

I agree with Sean, I would like to see them drop the number on the LE's. Maybe back to 8,000. But we have to remember as much as we would like to believe that Bill created HL's so that we could collect them all, and be happy, but that is not the case. They started HL to make money, so I would imagine to them the "mini's" would be a good marketing idea. This would give those who like to give certain lighthouses as "gifts" a lot more affordable. Only a few people will ever be able to collect them "all", and for the rest we will have a lot to pick from.

Rusty

A couple of points in response to the above posts:

I think Bill Younger did start HL to make money as we all need some sort of income to survive. I also think he started HL to fulfill a dream of his and I further believe he has more than achieved that dream.

I don't really know too much about the possibility of European releases of HLs. I do know it would probably make Nico Derk's Bulletin Board a little busier.

Bob

Tooooo many variations on the theme! The LEs are the best. Harbour Lights should just offer the LEs and the GLOWS. Even with limited funds (as is my case) you can still put together a meaningful LE collection of lighthouses that are special to the individual, or family. I'll probably never own a 2nd release Cape Hatteras (although I'd love to)but I can enjoy my New England lighthouses as much. Check out eBay . . . over 400 Harbour Lights lighthouses offered for sale! Some LEs, some GLOWS, some ornaments, etc. Most of the 9500 series are selling below original retail. Why? Because the secondary market is flooded.
Len

I don't say this maliciously, but the bottom line is this: Harbour Lights is going to offer anything and everything that people will buy. If we will buy it, they will make it. That's what they are in business for. They are producing a product that we the market have created a demand for. So don't worry about how many releases they have each year or if they are producing too many pieces: just buy the ones that you like.


"TheLightkeeper"



[This message has been edited by TheLightkeeper (edited 11-14-99).]

Without judging whether 9500 was too many to make, one of the reasons we see items selling below retail was rampant speculation. Collectors buying extras - even a dozen Thomas Points, expecting to make it big when the secondary market took hold.

But too many people held extras. My 1997 analysis of why Point Arena wasn't selling for more (too many sellers) holds for most of the other ones today. There's no 'scarcity' when there are lots of sellers.

ebay has made everyone with a PC a seller.

Sean hit the nail on the head a while ago. The new series (This little light of mine) is not aimed at the collectors. It is aimed at the tourist who wants a quality souvenir or at a casual purchaser. What you want to hope for is that the purchaser will enjoy their lighthouse purchase and look for more products by the same company. This would lead them to the HL LE models and probably a new collector.

Don't plan on trying to collect all the new mini's. If you see one you like, buy it.

Dave

Set the LE edition size at 5500. Promote the minis. Drop the GLOWS.

John's right. More sellers than buyers, more supply than demand. The 9.5k and 10k edition size create too many models, way too many. One might think the number of collectors (as opposed to giftware buyers) has plateaued. There's no evidence the GLOW line has generated more LE collectors and the LOM line probably won't either.

__
/im

Really?

I must have misinterpreted several postings that suggested otherwise.

Is there anyone here whose interest in Harbour Lights LEs began with the purchase of a GLOW?

------------------
-Art

I started with LEs: Southeast Light Block Island, Brant Point, Castle Hill, Beavertail, and so on. When you're new to collecting HLs you never figure you'll be able to find that special LE at a price you can afford. Then you see a Glow model of the same light at an affordable price. You immediately buy it and realize that this Glow is extremely well done. As a matter of fact, some Glows are actually better representations of the LH than the LE.

I'm pro-glow and purchase each and every one of them. I've also purchased every LE with the exception of 4 or 5...I've lost count. There are no rules governing what you purchase, well maybe one rule: If you like it and can afford it...buy it!

Lets face it, Harbour Lights keep getting better and better. The only difference between the LEs and the Glows is the amount manufactured. Yes, I understand that the Glows will never be worth much more than what you pay for them, but they look just as good in those curios as the LEs.

Bob

If the 9,500 edition size was a mistake, I sure am glad they made it. This so called mistake enabled me to get started on a real collection that has now turned into an uncontrolable urge to get them all.

Moby

I collect LE and GLOW and the A/B lightships. The GLOW are a bit different (more detailed) than the earlier LE releases, such as Grosse Point, IL & Coquille, OR among others. I have been Harbour Lights collector since 1992 and must say with every year the pieces seem to get better and better. What disappoints me, is that in the GLOW series, HL took the time to resculpt the same lighthouse because of scale. Boston Harbour, SE Block Island and Portland Head, all which would've been fine just as the size they are. After all look at the scale difference between the White River piece(HL226) and the Old Mission piece(HL236) Should we ask for a larger White River or a smaller Old Mission? What might have been better was to release pieces like West Quoddy, Sand Island, and other earlier LE less detailed pieces, pieces that are not already in the GLOW Collection. Cape Neddick(HL410) and Old Mackinac(HL419) are just two examples of what the GLOW pieces have over their earlier LE's pieces. Don't get me wrong I do have the newly sculptured GLOW pieces, and intend to purchase the gift line "This Little Lighthouse Of Mine" along with pieces from the Pharos Collection. I even have the Statue Of Liberty on reserve. That's why I'm a Harbour Lights WACKO,not for the number of posts, but for the true pleasure of collecting the most authentic minature lighthouses.
Jim Johnston
Harbour Lights Collectors Club
GREAT LAKES DISTRICT

[This message has been edited by Jim Johnston (edited 11-15-99).]

[This message has been edited by Jim Johnston (edited 11-15-99).]

[This message has been edited by Jim Johnston (edited 11-21-99).]

I agree with you Jim...I don't know what HL was thinking when they "re-did" those GLOW's, especially Barnegat...the original GLOW may have been too skinny but so what? The revised GLOW now looks nothing like the real thing...

I'm strictly a LE man myself...as nice as the GLOW's are, I save curio space for limited editions ONLY. For me, a LOT of the enjoyment of collecting these lights comes from knowing you have a piece that won't be available forever.

"Really?" responds Art, as only he can. :-)

I'm sure there are some collector's who first purchase was a GLOW, intentionally or mistakenly thinking it was a Limited Edition collectible. My belief is that the creation of GLOWs has not led to a net increase in collectors; and I'm not aware of any evidence to the contrary. This view is expressed in response to the concern that supply seems to be exceeding demand as evidenced by current secondary prices.

Collectors come into the hobby and collectors leave the hobby. I believe HL increased the edition size to 9500 and then to 10000 based on their perception that the overall number of collectors was increasing. The speculative flurry after the Thomas Point Affair fooled a lot of people - including HL and some of the speculators themselves. Today almost every 9.5k and 10k model is available at or near its retail price, including those bought up by dealers.

I recognize there are those who believe anything is collectible, but as I've said ad nauseum, to me a Collectible is an item that is desirable and has limited availability. The relative health of a Collectible can be gauged by its secondary market.

I suspect HL doesn't really care what one buys as long as one buys something. A dollar of profit is still a dollar regardless of whether it came from a Collectible or giftware. But the total pool of dollars available to be spent on lighthouse models does not appear to be increasing.

We probably should take this to the FSB so as not to offend the folks who think you're impure if you talk about this aspect of the hobby. :-)

Rgds,
__
/im

No need for the FSB, Tim. At least not this early in the evening



...at least not quickly enough to absorb 10,000 units times what, 15 or 20 new models per year?

This is exactly why I support the lower edition sizes, fewer introductions per year, and judiciously applied early retirements. You see, scary as this might seem, I too believe that

and that the secondary market *is* important to the line, since a Collectible (with a capital "C", as you've defined it) is what Y&A clearly set out to create in HL. Personally, I'd buy them regardless, but since much of the support for the line comes from (capital "C") Collectors, this must be acknowledged and tended to. Of course, I'm more than happy to go along myself for whatever financial ride these models will take me on, especially if it's upward.

Frankly, there is little for me to disagree with (try as I might [g]) in the above posting, framed the way it is. But *my* belief is that the creation of GLOWs *has* led to a net increase in collectors; and I'm not aware of any evidence to the contrary. (v,vbg)

And I really don't see what damage these cute little GLOWs can do to anything.

And I'm sure glad that I'm not the only one here who begins sentences with conjuctions.



Geepers Tim, does my incredulity come through even in cyberspace? LOL

------------------
-Art

>>And I really don't see what damage these cute little GLOWs can do to anything.<<

Believe it or not Art, your own post holds the answer. I'll trust you to work it out for yourself, but a brief comment to help you on your way:

If GLOWs have generated more LE Collectors, they haven't caused more dollars to be spent on LEs. Thus my reasoning that if the effect is missing, the cause ain't there. In this sense GLOWs bleed off the purchasing power of whatever new Collectors they bring in.

But I guess they do have the benefit of providing folks something to buy when they get bored. ;->

Rgds,
__
/im
[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 11-16-99).]

Let the "GLOW Wars" continue !!! LOL


"TheLightkeeper"

Personally, I enjoy the GLOW's and have them displayed in my Den!
Let the GLOW'S live on!
But, is their a need to update them! I don't think so? But, then I don't need to buy and updated GLOW either!
But, then I noticed; I have both Barnegat, NJ
Karen :-) Oh Well!