Can anyone give me some insight on #414 Barnegat, NJ?

I bought a Barnegat on Ebay. The Description stated; {retired mint in box limited edition Barnegat, NJ Harbour Lights Lighthouse. It is numbered 234}.

However when the piece arrived and I opened the box I found not a LE, but a GLOW! Numbered A234. I just about hit the ceiling with anger, said a few bad words, and am ready to shot the man who sold it to me. Paid $100. for a %#* GLOW!!!!!!!!

So I grabbed my 1998/1999 GreenBook to look it up and find that there was a mold I and a mold II of this GLOW. Mold I retired 4/30/98. But the book doesn't say anymore. So I guess what I'm asking here is; just how bad did I get took?

Stephanie

Mold I and Mold II both go for around $30 on ebay. I assume that you received the Mold I since the seller called it retired. That would have cost you $45 at a dealer.

The seller was not truthful to you on the description.

The Mold I #414 is not a limited edition. It is a retired open edition. It should have been called a G.L.O.W or “Great Lighthouses of the World”
The number is A234 not 234. Try getting a part for your washer without giving the dealer the letters on your serial no.

The seller was trying to make the buyer (you) believe that it was a L.E.

You have a right to return this item since the seller was describing a Limited edition #139 Barnegat not a glow. I believe you have a legal right to return any item within 3 working days if you are not happy with it.
But will the seller return the money. Probably not.
I think you should least contact the seller and try and return it.

Some of the collectors and I use to warn buyers by email when they saw stuff like this going on. I quite because I kept getting in the middle of it. Many a time the buyer would tell the seller that I said that he wasn’t correct on his description and I would find myself debating the seller. It just got old.

At this time there are probably around 4 or 5 Harbour lights that are on ebay with an exaggerated or untruthful description that leads the buyer to believe that the item is more valuable than it is. The real popular one right now is calling the misspelled Admiralty head rare and asking a ridiculous starting price or an over inflated buy it now price. A so-called "rare misspelled" Mylasian Admiraly just went for $375 and it didn't even have a box.

Maybe us Veteran collectors could start posting warnings to our fellow collectors on this forum.
What do you think?

You have my sympathy, Steph. I saw that auction and read through it carefully. I have to admit the seller was dumb like a fox, very shrewd to say the least.

Like Daniel, I have seen many misleading descriptions on eBay. I often wonder if this is done on purpose or just an uninformed seller trying his or her best to represent what they have for sale to maximize their profit.

The piece you purchased is worth about $30 at best, and that only to a collector who purchases GLOW's. I would contact the seller and inform that person you are not satisfied with the piece and express your concern about the misleading description. I would be courteous about it and ask if something could be worked out between the two of you without the need for a negative feed back war. Emphasize the fact that you were led to believe that the piece was truly the limited edtion version with a flag# of 234. This is why you bid what you did, and had the description been accurate you would not have bid on it at all.

Perhaps a partial refund would be in order. If you have to ship the piece back to the seller you will have paid shipping twice and that amount would be recorded in the loss column. Then the seller has to think about what he paid to eBay to list the item and the final commission to eBay. This is definitely a lose-lose situation.

No matter what the final outcome will be, you will have to take the first step by expressing your displeaure to the seller. Hopefully, the seller will be reasonable and you will be able to work something out that will end your dilemma.

Good luck!

Bob

Stephanie. First e-mail the seller and express your displeasure and ask for a refund. If he (or she) refuses, then report them to e-bay for fraud and misrepresentation, and you may be covered by e-bay. Finally, if you paid with paypal, dispute the charge with your credit card company. And of course, write a negative feedback. The lighthouse may be retired, but it was never a Limited Edition as that term is used by collectors.

Sorry about your misfortune. This is one of the reasons that I won't deal with Ebay. The Marketplace is the most reliable place to buy or sell in my opinion. While the seller probably should not have used the term "limited edition" when it was truly an open edition, he was correct that it was a limited edition run and was retired. He did state that it was #414 and that "is" an open edition number. Even if he left the "A" off the serial number the #414 should tell you that it is a GLOW. Looking for a "bargain" or a "super deal" on Ebay is not always the deal that it is trumped up to be. Buyer beware is usually the downfall of any "super deal" on Ebay. This is why I will pass up a deal on Ebay and pay a few bucks more on the Forums to deal with members that I trust.

Again I'm sorry for your misfortune and if you paid by credit card you usually have a 60 day period with Mastercard and Bank Americard to dispute a purchase over $50.00.

I concur with JJ's advice. If it was described as a 'limited edition' and the serial number did not include the 'A' letter then it was clearly mis-represented.

I suspect the seller did not really know details about what they were selling. (Perhaps they did.) With PayPal, you may not have recourse unless you bought their 'insurance'. You may if you used a credit card, but your credit card company would eat the loss.

Start with the seller, go on to ebay, then your credit card company.

Go back and re-read the description - does it say 'all sales final, no returns'?

If you can't resolve it, leave negative feedback to the seller -- but exhaust all your other options first.

No Rich he did not say that.

Description

You are bidding on a retired mint in box limited edition Barnegat, NJ Harbour Lights Lighthouse. It is numbered 234 and was released in 1997. The lighthouse and box have been kept in excellent condition. Shipping and handling will be $6.00 and insurance is highly recommended for this valuable hard to find item.

Stephanie,

I agree with John- the first thing you need to do is go back and read the complete listing.

In fact it would probably help our cause here if you put the link to the finished auction here.

I agree that there is misinformation based on your statements. The level is difficult to be sure of- is it intentional or unintentional is hard to prove.

I would be careful about contacting the seller and asking for your money back- even if the listing says all sales are final- the way you word it can determine the reaction of the seller. As for leaving negative feedback if you get no satisfaction I think the most you should leave is Neutral. The reason I say this is that there is fault on both sides of this transaction.

The time to ask questions about an auction is before you bid on it. If you did this (you didn't mention this) and the seller responded with misinformation that changes things, but if you did not ask or research it elsewhere prior to bidding you must accept some responsibility for the situation.


I also used to try and assist bidders when I saw bad listings- I stopped when I had problems with both sellers and buyers about it. I tried never to badmouth a seller, but tried to inform the bidders that they should research their purchases a bit better. My help was seldom appreciated by anyone so I decided to let people do what they wanted.

I hope the seller comes to an agreement with you, but if they don't you may just have to swallow the loss and move on. Of course this is just my opinion.

Dennis

The 'Released in 1997' should have raised a question in your mind. The LE Barnegat was from 1994.

http://www.harbourlights.com/catalog/1994/hl_barnegat.htm

Without having access to the actual add, and from what you've stated, it certainly seems like the piece was misrepresented. I would try to contact the seller first and try to return the piece and get some of my money back. Keep all correspondance and if you do not get satisfaction, contact the credit card company (if you paid by cc) and they will either withold payment (or place payment on hold) until they investigate. The cc company does not charge for this and at least Mastercard and Bankamericard does not loose any money (they just remove the charge from you and instruct you to return the merchandise). You must prove that you returned merchandise (receipt from UPS showing what and when it was returned). I have had occasions 3 times over the last 30 some years to have to resort to this and it works.

The way you first asked the question about #414, I assumed that this was in the add, but as John said, released in 1997 should have given you a clue.

Everybody should take time to ask questions if they see too good a deal to pass up and not fall prey to these type of adds. These Forums have a wealth of knowledge and no one is bashful about answering. I also have a #414 Barnegat listed on the Marketplace and this is my discription:#414 Barnegat(retired "slim tower" GLOW) #A1945 $50.00. While my price may be higher then Daniel or Bob feels, the discription is correct and that must have been what was missing from the Ebay add. Again, sorry for your problems and also sorry that I misunderstood your first posting.

Stephanie,
I'm so sorry that happened to you. I sell a lot of stuff on eBay and know they have Buyer Protection. There is a several step process you need to follow and there are guidelines as to when each step needs to be completed. Here is the website for you to look at:

eBay Buyer Protection

Hope that helps. It's so discouraging that there are people out there trying to make a fast buck by defrauding others. Good luck!

It’s tragically unfortunate that you experienced such a devastating experience with E-bay, Stephanie. I did see the post, but immediately discounted it from any purchase consideration.

It’s true that there are folks out there that will try to “pull the wool over your eyes”, but it’s also true that people are basically honest. I, unlike others on the Forum, will work with E-bay. However, there are some things you might look for, in order not to get burnt again – maybe it’s like an amicable divorce – if both parties agree, no harm done unless children are involved.

Here’s what I do:

• Look at the number of completed sales of the seller. If it’s in the thousands, they probably don’t have a clue of what’s going on.
• Take a look at the responses – not particularly meaningful, only if it has to do with Harbour Lights.
• Pay close attention to the terms of payment. If it indicates that you will be under penalty of death should you default, avoid them.
• Dennis and Daniel and Rich gave you some good advice. Listen to them.
• Don’t depend upon the pictures. They could be any picture of the sculpture that you are interested in purchasing.
• Write to the seller and repeat what you perceive to be the terms of purchase and especially your perception of the item you are bidding upon. NO RESPONSE? Forget it.

Should you agree to everything and pay the monies, once you receive the sculpture look at the piece carefully:

• Shinny paint indicates that the piece has been altered – especially with the older issues. This can easily be determined by looking at it with a laser light or any flashlight for that matter. The older pieces have a rather dull paint.
• A magnifying glass tends to be very helpful when looking at the piece. Chips and things that just don’t look right are a dead giveaway.
• Read as much as you can about Harbour Lights and their respective productions. They represent a fantastic company and Bill Younger is a wonderful and conscientious person – as are his entire family.

Bottom line? I would use the Forum first and foremost. They are good people. Anywhere else and you want to be careful. Just hang in there. What’s past is past and can’t be revived.
Bob

Stepanie, there's a lot of good advice here. I wish you success with dealing w/ the seller, and do take other routes if your one-on-one is not possitive.

Just looking through the "newly listed" in the HL section of EBay, there are quite a few glaring mistakes in the descriptions right now. Some of this could be intentional, but I believe there are a bunch of sellers of HL's that really don't know what they have, and it is a honest mistake.

Arm yourself w/information. Here and the HL web site are full of information about the individual pieces.

A couple of points here...

• Many HL forum members are also avid sellers on EBay

• It's possible to get burnt purchasing from any marketplace

• I'm a happy EBay buyer, and will continue to fill in my collection that way. I find very inflated prices from many sellers (outside of EBay), along with those who refuse to give you a price and then act insulted when you offer one.

Just beware, and be aware!

Judy

P.S.
I recently posted an inquiry here for an Anchor Bay Portsmouth Lightship in the Marketplace. Within and hour or two, I had two private e-mails from members with a lead. As of Saturday, I am now the proud owner of a very low 3 digit Portsmouth in case and in perfect condition, and I paid a total of $85 plus tax...no shipping. Thanks so much to these two guys, whom I also thanked privately.

Stephanie

Even if you get stuck with the Barneget 414, Lets look at the good side.

1.You will never, never make this mistake again.

2.This was a learning experience and as things go $70 is a cheap learning experience. This learning experience may have prevented you from a more costly mistake than this in the future.

3.Worst yet, you could have bought your Limited Editions in 1997-1999 like I did and paid twice as much for many of them, Like New point Loma, Portland Head, & St Augustine.

4.You have brought this to the attention of other collectors and may help others in careful biddings.

Stephanie,
Hope you have had some success in your dealing with this problem. Just thought I'd let you know that you aren't the only one that has done this. In fact, In 99, I also purchased a Barnegat that was "retired" only to find I bought a first year Glow version. I was not happy with the purchase but after review, I had to admit that it was more my fault. I knew to read more closely next time. I spent $60 for mine. $30 for the piece and $30 for the lesson.
I have found that its best to email any questions that you have before the sale ends.... if you don't get a reply.... That's a clue!!!
In 5 years on Ebay, I've received one broken piece which was replaced right away, and one Glow that was an OBVIOUS misleading discription that after a month of emails, I finally got my money back minus the shipping. That guy was a jerk and I left a negative response and he retaliated by calling me a "shyster". Which is on my record even though I paid PayPal the next day and tried to deal with it as best I could... Still have that negative mark on me. So try to work it out as best you can at first. Good luck to ya.
Been there, done that, don't want to do it again.