I got a call from Cliff Olsen, Plymouth MA today telling me about curio accident.

Cliff tripped and fell towards one of his curios and all of the shelves pancaked down on one another.

Although the glass was tempered, still 29 of his precious Harbour Lights collection was seriously damaged.

He called me to ask who might be an appraiser of fair market value in case his insurance company asks.

My condolenses to Cliff. That stinks big time. Does Cliff have a copy of the Greenbook Guide to HL's? We all know that book is full of over inflated values. Even if the insurance company paid him half the estimated value in Greenbook, he might make out okay.

I don't believe insurance companies have any sympathy for collectible owners unless you are paying them a rather large premium to insure your pieces. Insurance companies take your money with a smile but then burst into tears when they have to pay a claim. They cry so much they raise your rates or refuse to insure you in the future after coughing up money to pay a claim.

The last thing Cliff wants is for his insurance company to puruse eBay to get a rough idea of values. Prices are in the toilet at eBay right now.

Is Cliff a forum member? If he is, have him keep us appraised of what is happening so others might know the correct thing to do if they ever have such a bad experience.

Bob

I have had this nightmare many times. One of the things that I have done to make me sleep better is to put oversized glass for shelves. There was a thread awhile ago that talked about the thickness of glass shelves that one should use in a curio. I took that discussion very seriously and went to a glass dealer and ended up with shelves in my curios that I could sit on literally, and I'm 250 lbs. The weakness in the shelves though is the supports, and I found that coming up with a good support system other than the small little "L" brackets makes it even better. Although I don't know if my shelves could survive me tripping and coming down on them full force, I know that it would take a pretty good scenario to break the 1/2" glass shelves I am depending on to protect my investment, and minimize the damage.

Another tip that I have recieved from the forums is to take out good insurance on your collection. A few years back I purchased a policy from the Collectibles Insurance Agency. Although the cost for the coverage has gone up each year, I have heard that they don't quibble over claims when an accident happens. I have found this to be a nice safety net, even though I have not filed a claim to date.

As for Cliff my sincerest sympathy for a real nightmare I have had only in my dreams. I have spent many years building my collection, and really can't imagine the feeling of looking at a pile of broken lighthouse pieces that makes me sick. I can only hope that he can get what the collection is worth, and have a great time rebuilding the collection to even better than the original.

How tragic for Cliff! I have been thinking about adding a rider to our home owners insurance for not only my HLs but also I have a fair collection of depression glass.

Dick, would you mind sending me information on this other insurance company Collectibles Insurance Agency if I cannot find anything (I'll "google" first)? I would like to do some comparison shopping. Thanks!

This is the company that I have used since I picked up information at a Rosemont show. I have never had to file a claim, but I have spoken with several folks that have, and they felt the company was very reasonable and fair.
http://www.collectinsure.com/

Thats the company. As I look at the policy it looks like it has some affiliation with the Hartford Insurance Company. The last premium was $209 for about 50K of coverage, which is very reasonable. The nice thing about this is that it also covers other collections as well, however there are some areas they do not cover.

I have insurance with these folks also but have, fortunately, never had to file a claim. I did check with State Farm and believe their rates may have been cheaper but they required you to nofity them every time you added to your collection, which seemed to be a real pain.

Since I don't have any of the older, more valuable pieces anyway, I went with insuring my HL's at some formula based on a combination of retail prices/what I actually paid. Can't quite remember now. Since I haven't added to my collection too much in recent years I've kept the same coverage. Chances are, if I had a loss and used the actual retail prices for replacement value I'd make money.

I believe this is the company that insured Cliff's collection. He said the premiums were a couple hundred a year.

He hasn't been asked to get an appraisal, just if there was someone who could give values if an appraisal was necessary.

Cliff,
Sorry for your unfortunate loss! This is a fear I,ve had lately. I've found the advice here very enlightening. I have tried the Collectors Ins. Web site but have been unable to figure out how to get an application. Any suggestions?
Rick

Rick,

The CIA applications are online - you have to look for the links they have on various pages. Here is the general application for general collections:
http://www.collectinsure.com/Acrobat4-04/GenCollApplication.pdf

To see the application you do have to have Acrobat Reader installed on your computer.

Rick,

Just give them a call at their phone number(not sure about toll free)and apply over the phone. They will insure you immediately and send you the bill. They will quote you coverage right over the phone. That's how I did it.

Thanks for the link and the info on this insurance company. Have printed out some info to read over this weekend.

This really is a nightmare! We also appreciate the information on the insurance. We have three curios and I'm checking the thickness of the glass now!!

Thanks again for the tip.

Judy

I have found a way to shore up the glass in my curio cabinets. With the length of the glass shelves in several of my curio cabinets exceeding 4' from side to side, I have purchased clear plexiglass rods (square or round is your choice. I chose square) from a local glass company to use for extra support in the middle of the shelves. I use one rod at the front and one rod at the back of each shelf. I cut them to fit between the underneath of the bottom (1st) shelf to the top of the wooden cabinet base in both the front and back of the cabinet. I then cut two more to fit between the underneath of the 2nd shelf and the top of the bottom (1st) shelf. Then two more rods between the underneath of the 3rd shelf to the top of the 2nd shelf. This goes on depending on the amount of shelves you have. With the rods in place, and as you sit lighthouses on the 2nd shelf, the weight of the lighthouses is actually absorbed by the plexieglass rods instead of the shelf having a potential to sag. It's sort of like a skyscrapper's framework where the weight of the entire frame is actually absorbed into the ground foundation. The weight on the center of each shelf is actually absorbed by the wooden base as it is transfered from plexiglass rod to plexiglass rod to the wooden base. The rods are virtually invisible when you looked at them and you will eventually ignore them all together.

Just an idea that I came up with to put my mind at ease about undue stress on the center of the glass shelves and having my shelves break from excess weight.

Rich,

Your idea for reinforcing the glass shelves in your curio cabinets sounds fantastic. It makes a tremendous amount of sense. To be honest I never thought of it. Did you used to be a structural engineer in a previous life?

I also called Collectors Insurance Agency and they are sending me all the appropriate application forms. NOW I'M WORRIED ALSO.

Rich,
The rods do work as I have done the same for two of our three curios. They do seem to help since Judy seems to use every available space on the shelf! So far no problem but we still need to insure our collection.

Bill

No Bob, I wasn't a structual engineer in a previous life, just a Coastie for 23 years and use to doing "jury rigging" to keep things on line. It really supports well and by the way, I also have the Collectible Insurance Company for my lighthouses.

You should do yourself a favor, Cliff, and never use glass shelves again...replace them with 1/4" thick wood and stain to match the color of your curio...easier to clean and a lot safer...so what if it invalidates the lamp above the top shelf? They get too hot anyway...

Many moons ago there was a discussion about the actual strength of glass shelves and the importance of not overloading them.

I have three glass-enclosed curios. Two of them cost me $1000 each, the other cost $1800. All three have 3/8" thick plate glass shelves. Most curios come with 1/4" thick glass shelves.

I've seen many nice looking curios at some great prices but kept away from them because of the 1/4" thick shelves and sub-standard shelf supports. HL's are heavy enough without putting more than four or five on one shelf. Larger groups of HL's might be considered "overloading" the glass shelf, especially if the shelf is a long one.

Accidents can happen but certain precautions can be taken to cut down on the chance of an accident. Buy only quality curios with brass shelf supports and 3/8" thick shelves and don't try to display too many HL's on any one shelf. Most of all, make sure your family is very aware of the delicate nature of the contents of the curio, especially children.

Sorry, Rock, you won't find a wooden shelf in my curios.

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

I have four "free-standing" curio cabinets and display about 50% of my collection in them and in what used to be a built-in hutch. The hutch's shelves are wood, but my hubby put those plastic ropes with lights in them above each shelf to provide lighting for each shelf. There is one hole on the side the hutch for the cord that electrifies the lights. He added a box that allows me to turn those lights on and off at will, so I usually have the cabinet lit when we're entertaining.

Two of the four curio cabinets are true curio cabinets and stand about 6' tall against a wall in our DR. He fastened the cabinets to the chair rail with nice-looking brass hinges and I replaced the 1/4" glass shelves with 3/8" glass shelves. The replacement glass shelves sit on metal L-shaped supports and we've made what were 5-shelf cabinets into 8-shelf cabinets by drilling additional holes in the side of each cabinet to provide more shelf space. Those two cabinets had plastic rope lights along the bottom edge and a small, single halogen light on the bottom of the cabinet top, but the lights got too hot and I've removed them from those two cabinets until another safer method comes along. We expect to be moving into a home that will have one room that I can devote to displaying my whole collection and I think I may have adjustable track lighting installed on the ceiling to beam lights at each cabinet.

The other two cabinets are kitchen cabinets bought from Home Depot. They have glass fronts and had one wooden shelf measuring about 5' long. I use the wooden shelf in the "well" created by the lip of each side above the top of each cabinet. The shelf is a perfect fit and fills that "well" so that the pieces displayed in glass domes above the cabinet are fully visible and not sunk below the lip. I had a glass vendor adhese a mirror across the inside of the back of each cabinet, drill additional holes for additional shelves, supply the metal brackets, and cut 3/8" glass shelves in two different widths to provide me with a total of 3 additional shelves above the bottom of the cabinet. The different widths allow me to display twice as many pieces as I could if I only had one 3/8" shelf above the bottom of each cabinet. The sculptures are staggered across the 5' length of each cabinet. Following placement of the sculptures in one cabinet, there was a pronounced "bow" to all three of the additional shelves and we purchased and cut to size solid clear plastic supports (somebody mentioned them in this thread) that sit between the shelf underneath and the one above. All three added shelves in each cabinet are supported by these plastic supports and there are no "bows" in either cabinet. I haven't found a good method of lighting these cabinets (battery-powered under-cabinet lights are too cumbersome to get at and the heat generated by a hard-wired light is not acceptable), but I'm thinking the track lighting may be the answer.

Each Home Depot cabinet cost about $700 after the additional work was done; the true curio cabinets cost somewhere around $350 each after the additional shelves were installed.

The Fine Arts portion of our homeowner's policy covers the collection for $20,000 and costs $50 annually. All I have to provide the insurer with should I have a claim is proof of purchase and I've organized all invoices as part of my inventory.

Well you won't find any glass in mine...and I wasn't addressing you anyway.

Rock,
Hope your comment was directed at someone other than me!!
Sandy

Hi Sandy, ...It sounds like you have a great set up for displaying your collection. Lord knows you've certainly put a tremendous amount of effort into it. You certainly have more display space than I. I can only display around 30% of my collection at one time. HL's are displayed in my three curios while the AB's and the Lenses are displayed on the shelves on my entertainment center. I won't mention the hand-blown glass fish because they are not a Harbour Lights product.

Have a stellar day!

Bob

I'm jumping in here hoping to "shed some light" on the subject...no pun intended

I think it matters what part of the country you live in as to what kind of shelves you might want to consider using.
I see Sandy that you live in CT, and Rock lives in CA. Hmmm, maybe Rock has tons of reinforcement for those earthquakes! Just a thought. However, I know disasters can happen just about anywhere you live.
Comes down to personal preference maybe?

Sandy, it does sound like you have done a great deal to display your collectibles. When you have an investment like that, you do want to show them in the finest way you can.
Maybe everyone should post some photos of how they display their treasures!

A tip to consider is that glass looses flexibilty with age. Yes,I said flexibility.At a certain point in material age it makes not much difference how thick or heavy the glass is as much as how flexible it is. With every bit of aging flexibility loss there is a loss in strength as well. Now how old is old? Well it varies greatly. It all depends on the particular processes used to make the glass. Just do not overload the shelves and make sure your cabinet is footed secure, and on a stable floor to the point that the shelves are not always moving when you walk by or during normal travel in the home. This information was provided by a long time family friend who also happens to be the Chief Mechanical Engineer for a worldwide leading auto & architectural glass maker.

For those of you who use or build curios or other glass shelving items the following information may prove beneficial to you. The following comments are offered from my experience in building cabinets/curios (for myself and others) and from reference materials that I have come across.

Some display cabinets are more attractive with glass shelves rather than wood. See-through shelving creates a light, airy look and focuses attention on the objects (HL’s) on display. Glass shelving is easily supported with shelf pins, standards, or the actual frame of the curio. Here’s what you need to know about strength and profile to avoid a “shattering experience”:





Most glass suppliers offer several edge profiles, such as these shown, that make great looking shelves.





Comments:

1. Most production curio cabinets come with ¼” thick glass which is considered ‘light-duty’. If you are going to load up the shelf with HL’s, I STRONGLY SUGGEST you replace the shelves with no less than 3/8” tempered glass. Tempered glass is four to five times stronger than standard, but more expensive. (you get what you pay for). Standard glass will bear a surprising amount of weight – a ½” piece supported every two feet will bear about 80 pounds per square foot.
2. You might want to take one of your densely loaded shelves and weigh collectively what the HL’s are as a reference.
3. I also suggest that you support each glass shelf as much as possible, i.e., on 4 sides rather that 2 or 3. Even a curio will have an area on the inside of the front where shelf pins can be added .
4. Any time you can reduce the ‘sag’ on glass you will effectively be adding to its holding capacity; therefore edge support is strongly recommended wherever it is possible to accommodate it All of my 3/8” tempered glass shelves are supported on all four sides by at least shelf pins. These are relatively easy to add to an existing curio, and are available at your local home builders supply. Remember if you can see ‘sag’ when the shelf is loaded, you are at high risk and should consider lighter loading or stronger shelves.
5. Keep in mind that thicker glass always costs more. If you have any doubt, talk to your local glass supplier and let him know about what weight you need to support and the size of the shelf. He will suggest a thickness that is appropriate.
6. Expect to pay about 50% more for a custom edge than a standard edge

Hope this information helps somebody to avoid a shattering experience.

Hello to all of the very concerned folks on this site.
I am the poor unfortunate collector named "Cliff" that had a great number (29) statues get demolished in one degree or another. I have waited untill now to post this message. I am extremely grateful to all of the concern and suggestions posted on my behalf and am indebted to all. Let me give all the story as it happened. It was not a case of the glass shelves bending, breaking, slipping or sliding. This accident happened as I was looking at some statues on the bottom shelf and when I was standing up my leg (knee) gave out and I fell. While falling I reached out and grabbed the edge of the all glass case and as the entire case is Tempered glass, there is flexibility and the side bowed allowing the shelves to fall one on to the other. The glass did not break, it just collapsed and the damage was done. I have nine other cases and have never had any problems. Thats how it happened, the motto of this story is don't play football and hockey when your young as your knees give out when your old.
The better part of this story is the other reason I waited to post and that is the insurance. My Homeowners did not cover any of this as it was an "Accident" not fire, theft etc. I had collectors insurance and one call did it all. I sent photos to the company showing the damage and within three days they answered and approved my claim. I was truly amazed and impressed by the proffesionalism of all concerned and overjoyed with the results. They asked me for an estimate, which I found in the HL Green book and listed some only at the purchase price, The adjuster RAISED some of these. I received my check today and thus this post to close it out. The insurance Agency is Collectibles Insurance Agency, PO Box 1200, Westminster, MD 21158-0299---- 1-888-837-9537 or www.collectinsure.com---They are extremely reasonable and the policy covers "Collections"
and it costs only $352.00 for $150.000 coverage.
I hope it doesn't seem that I am "Shilling" for this company but I did want folks to know that they were very easy to work with and certainly someone that I would not hesitate to recommend.
Once again thanks to all for your concern and also the suggestions. Cliff Olson

Thanks for sharing the info, Cliff. Your testimonial pretty much supports what others had previously shared about CIA, though not from first hand experience. It certainly sounds as if you had a very positive experience with them under these stressful conditions. Sounds like you at least didn't get hurt in the fall, which is good news.

Welcome to the Forums, and we hope to hear from you as you get your damaged pieces replaced. (We like to hear good news more than bad news!)