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Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21702 06/27/00 01:43 PM
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What should you do about the new Fresnel 5th Order Lens?

If you like it, you should reserve one. If you don't, don't. (That will leave more for other collectors who do like it.)

With only 4,000 to be made, these are on allocation to Harbour Lights dealers. Dealers on autoship (who receive at least one of everything Harbour Lights makes) will receive their autoships. That accounts for about 2,200 pieces, leaving 1,800 to be distributed among a total of around 2,000 Harbour Lights dealers. Some dealers will get more beyond their autoships, some will not get any.

Should you buy more than one? No.

What? Why not? Won't this be a good 'investment'?

That depends on how many collectors buy 'extras' to hold and sell or trade. Let's face it: buying extras when the supply is already so short is akin to profiteering.

The regular readers of these forums could probably account for all 4,000 at 1 each. Those collectors who are not on line (the majority of them) don't yet know how scarce 4,000 is.

If you buy up 4, at least three more serious collectors (there are about 6,000, I think) won't get one.

If 2,000 collectors hold 4,000 Fresnel Lens pieces, the market value of these items will not significantly increase until MOST of these extras are sold off. On the other hand, if 3,996 hold the 4,000, then yes, the 2 extras will be worth a LOT more than list. But that isn't what happens in this kind of situation.

Sure some HARD soul [edited] will undoubtedly be offering one soon at 2-3 times the list and someone [edited] will undoubtedly pay the price. But one sale does not a market make. Once one sells for $225 or so, the other 1,999 with extras will say, "OK, I'll put mine on the market and get $199 and more than double my investment." That will drive prices down. Too many sellers with extras.

It matters not to the retail dealers. Most will make their profit on their one or two items. They won't be able to make all their regular customers happy with each getting one.

So, get ONE. Don't put your name on 8 lists and expect you'll take the first one or two that come in, leaving 6-7 dealers hanging.

Find a dealer who knows how many they will receive, and who knows how many they have already committed to collectors and offer a deposit for one of their remaining ones.

Enjoy it when it comes in. Instead of profiteering off a fellow collector who was initially left out, feel good about yourself that you allowed another collectors to find one at retail.

You want to make a profit on it? Sell it out of your collection in 5-6 years.

---------

Per Terry's post a few down, I've added some constraint and edited out two semi-personal references.

[This message has been edited by JChidester (edited 06-27-2000).]

Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21703 06/27/00 06:49 PM
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I second that emotion.

Dennis

Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21704 06/27/00 07:29 PM
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Well said!

------------------
Ken T


Ken T
Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21705 06/27/00 08:17 PM
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Flaming: if you make nasty or perjorative remarks attacking another person or business, or thing, or whatever, this is known as flaming. Flaming is generally frowned upon and if you do it regularly you'll be known as a flamer. A thread which turns nasty or has lots of name calling is known as a 'flame war'. If you must criticize, criticize a person's ideas or statements, but not the person themself

terrybarfield

Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21706 06/28/00 12:18 AM
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GOOD POINT JOHN

Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21707 06/28/00 12:19 AM
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John... I'm confused with this particular comment...

"Find a dealer who knows how many they will receive, and who knows how many they have already committed to collectors and offer a deposit for one of their remaining ones.

I contacted among others, Lighthouse Gallery and Lighthouse Depot. I was told by them that they do not know how many Fresnel pieces they will receive. According to Cindy at Lighthouse Gallery, "We have been told many different things by the staff at HL. One minute we are told that no autoships will take place, then they will, then we may not receive all of our autoship." Considering these are two of the largest HL distributors that I know, are there any others out there who do know what they will receive?

Tim - Adding to the confusion...

Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21708 06/28/00 03:10 AM
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I certainly agree with what you say John, however, with all due respect, you've conveyed this theme before. I think most of us collectors here are reasonable people and not greedy (and if any reader were greedy...do you really think this post would dissuade them?). Repeated lectures about this are unnecessary.

Doc John

PS A wonderful display of a Fresnel lens is on display at Ponce De Leon lighthouse museum. For more info about the group associated with it: http://www.ponceinlet.org/assoc.htm

[This message has been edited by DocJ44 (edited 06-28-2000).]

[This message has been edited by DocJ44 (edited 06-28-2000).]


Doc John
Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21709 06/28/00 07:29 AM
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Doc John,

I agree with you. St. John is preaching to the choir.

Moby


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Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21710 06/28/00 08:03 AM
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I talked with 3 dealers this past weekend (in N.C.)....two of them said that they would receive one each and the other has no idea what's going on....she didn't even know they were coming out with the lens. Interesting.


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Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21711 06/28/00 12:35 PM
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Quote:
John, I must admitt I don't understand the comments about Specific Secondary Dealers. What gives?


I didn't refer to 'Specific Secondary Dealers' did I?

Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21712 06/28/00 12:53 PM
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A retailer is only as good as his or her rep. The rep in my area seems to be from Mars and has no clue as to what is going on with HL's. Usually I inform the local retailers of upcoming events and news and I'm told, "gee the rep was just here this week and didn't say anything, thanks for keeping me informed". So, when I ask how many pieces of a specific issue will be received, the retailer generally does not know and then it usually takes four to five weeks to get an answer from the rep. So, I must admit I do have my name on two lists only to secure one. The retailer who has my second request is aware that I already have my name listed elsewhere and she said it's not a problem since she will have others who will want it if I don't take it.

Joanne

Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21713 06/28/00 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert M Dick:
Doc John,

I agree with you. St. John is preaching to the choir.

Moby


Even though some of us are in the choir, I feel that this message bears repeating for all the newbies and lurkers who read the forums but do not post here. This information can help with the understanding of the the "Point Arena" problem.
Jim
Johnson

Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21714 06/28/00 03:28 PM
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Besides all of the choir members don't always sing on key!
SaintWackoPaul '

Onward to The Land of the Midnight Sun!
Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21715 06/28/00 07:06 PM
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I misunderstood your first comment, Sean. When you said 'Specific Secondary Dealers' I thought you meant I had used that term. Yes, my original post named someone who seems to sell things on ebay for more than retail when the item(s) are clearly available for retail - such as Cape Hatteras On The Move.


My apologies for the mis-understanding.

Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21716 06/28/00 10:52 PM
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Well I am glad I put my name on the list with my autoship dealer. I hope I get one.

More to the point on other topics in this thread does anyone know where CHESTERFIELD,VA is ???? (LOL)

[This message has been edited by Lonnie Davidson (edited 06-28-2000).]


Lonnie
Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21717 06/29/00 12:17 AM
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Lonnie....I used to live in Chesterfield County, Virginia. I don't know of a city or town by that name. Chesterfield County is located just south of Richmond. Now...there is a small town located just south of Richmond called "Chester". I hope this was of some help to you.

------------------
Brent


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Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21718 06/29/00 01:17 AM
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I have a hard time understanding the "no hoarding" rule. Does it apply to "established" secondary market dealers as well as to individuals? How does a secondary market dealer make his money? Are we saying that there should be no secondary market dealers? Or that they should not profit from their activities? I can't buy in. Sorry. Some good friends of mine are (or at one time were) secondary market dealers. I don't begrudge them their profit for their foresight and efforts, but niether will I grant them exclusive license to hoard, just because they were there first.

I realize that secondary market dealers can and do also buy pieces on the open market long after release. However, to make a profit, they must buy below market value and sell at or above market value. Is buying below market value taking advantage of the seller? We can get into all kinds of ethics questions here, but let's not. Profiteering, if that's what we want to call it, comes with the territory. Limited editions by design have the potential to appreciate in value. A potential for appreciation brings about "investment" and speculation. In our society, it's natural. If you want to play the limited edition game, you'd better be prepared for some for-profit activity.

Now before you think that I'm nothing more than a cold, hard capitalistic pig, let me tell ya that I have never bought more than one of any HL model, except rarely as gifts for others. I do think that hoarding hurts the line by delaying appreciation, and I wish that people wouldn't do it. However, my personal "limit of one" policy does not stem from altruism. A dollar in a good growth-oriented mutual fund is, with rare exception, a much better investment over the long haul than a dollar in Harbour Lights models. As I have said countless times before, buy 'em cause you like 'em, not as an investment.

If someone wants to stash away a few extras, that's their prerogative. I don't encourage it, but I can't criticize it, either. As for the unfortunate buyers who pay way too much, caveat emptor. It's their own fault. They should get educated. To the sellers who misrepresent a piece to hype it's value, shame on you. I have no quarrel with those who make a decent or even a large profit while accurately portraying a piece.

-Not Karl Marx


-Art
Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21719 06/29/00 02:31 PM
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I agree with Art. If there was that much concern then HL should have made a bigger edition.


LONG ISLAND BOB
Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21720 06/29/00 06:07 PM
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Lonnie... there is a Chesterfield, VA which is just south of Richmond, and approximately 5 miles west of Chester on state route 10. Good luck!

Tim - Keeping the flame lit...

Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21721 06/29/00 09:06 PM
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I was at my dealers a couple of weeks ago. I asked her about the Fresnel Lens. She said she had not received hers yet. She also said that she "always gets 6 of every new release". She put me on her list to notify when she gets them. She said I was the 1st to ask. If she does get 6, and I buy one for my collection, she will have 5 left for other collectors.

Jim Thomas

Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21722 06/30/00 09:17 PM
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I called Lighthouse Depot last week and ordered my Lens. They said I would be assured one when they receive their shipment in August. I would suggest to anyone who is unsure of their order through a dealer, call the Depot.
Joe

Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21723 08/11/00 01:46 PM
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I got on a list yesterday with a dealer in Oklahoma for a lens. In my searching I did call other stores there who are still receiving them and they are not spoken for yet. This may be a good resource for those still looking for a dealer.

I downloaded the list of dealers from the Harbourlights site.

Ned

Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21724 08/15/00 02:07 AM
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Well....it's AUGUST....

Where's the Lens???????

Any shipping date set in stone yet from the home office???

Re: Your Fresnel Lens Strategy #21725 08/15/00 01:45 PM
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