We have come across a couple of collectors that are telling us that the value of a HL LE is affected as much as 50% by the absence of the original box. We have not found this to be the case in the real world.

We would like to get input from some of our fellow wackos out there on what they have found on this subject.

Michael and Karen

I think 50% is a bit steep. I do sometimes see pieces selling for less because of the wrong box (a little less) or no box (quite a bit less, but not 50%).

All else being equal, I'll take the piece with the correct box every time. I have no intentions of ever selling, but sometimes life doesn't give us choices. Faced with a forced sale, the right box might equate to a quicker sale and a better price.

Having said that, I have purchase pieces in the wrong box, and I will even sometimes buy them without an HL box at all if I can get a good deal on the right piece. The boxes don't mean much to me personally.

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-Art

Boxes important? Let's put it this way...if you have a piece that I want and you don't have the box, and your price is reasonable, I will purchase the piece. Boxes are not that important to me.

For any of the 9500 or 10000 issue pieces it seems to be a buyers market out there right now with many available for purchase. With that competition and fairly low prices, I would personally purchase one with a box. The difference between paying $80 with matching box or $65 without box is not enough for me to make the decision to go without, especially with the newer styrofoam inserts for safer shipping & storage.

On the really rare pieces, if a substantial price difference was available for one without a box, I would then purchase one. As an example, a Canadian Sandy Hook for $325 with matching white Canadian box, or a Canadian Sandy Hook without box for $250...I would take the one without the box. If they were only $20-$30 apart, I would take the one with a box. Personally, it would take at least a $30 or more difference for me to make the purchase without a box.

When blindly buying a piece over the net, I guess I would feel a little "safer" knowing that a person with a matching box and all paperwork may possibly take better care or have more respect of a collectible than one who does not have the box and paperwork? (whether it's a valid assumption or not, it does have that impact on my thoughts, though)

I would not buy a "metalwork" light without the box and styrofoam insert, would be too paranoid packing it on "moving" day when it would inevitably occur.

-Rod

As a new collector, I threw out the packing materials for my first few HLs. I still have the paperwork and boxes. Does this matter at all for resale?

I'm a collector, not a speculator, but I'm curious about the opinions of the rest of you.

As a collector (not a speculator), the boxes are important to me. Due to a current lack of display space, most of my Harbour Lights are stored in closets in their boxes (and the boxes are inside plastic bags). I feel much better about storing a piece in its original box, especially the newer pieces that have styrofoam inserts. Admittedly, the older pieces packed in styro peanuts would store as well in any box. Packing materials are not nearly as important to me as the original box. The importance to me of an original box thus relates to aesthetics, storage, and re-sale if that day ever comes. In the secondary market when I'm looking to buy I don't consider purchasing pieces without a box. Now, give me an opportunity to buy a Southern Belle (for example) at retail, and of course I'd buy it without a box!

To BOX or not to BOX. I have recently sold several of my pieces ( mostly duplicates) and I found that althought I had all the correct boxes, people would offer a price almost 50 percent higher with the box than without.

I don't think that a box make 50 percent difference, maybe 10 to 15 percent.

Original boxes add about 20% to 30% to the value of Harbour Lights pieces. This range holds true for Department 56, Hallmark ornaments and other current collectibles. Over time the percentage value of the box will increase, if the line is still collectible. I have seen toy trains over 50 years old with the original box and packing sell for two to three times what the same item sells for without the box and packing.

For Harbour Lights the Box & Lighthouse should be together and numbered as such. This combination with the certificate make the item more complete. I would buy a lighthouse with original box and pay the premium to do so.

The box doesn't add anything to the value of the lighthouse. What it does is add to the re-sale price of the lighthouse with a box. The value of the lighthouse is the same. It is a silly practice that would mean something if we were talking 50 years old, but for something a couple of years old it is meaningless and artificial. If you don't believe my views on it, you can come and see the display of my boxes or the display of my lighthouses. Then tell me which lighthouses are less valuable because I don't have the box or if you can tell if I have the box. I think some people got together in a room one night and said let's play a joke on everybody and tell them it is worth more with a box or a tag still attached. If it gets real quiet, sometimes I can hear them laughing as I struggle with all these dumb boxes.

WackoPaul '
Keep the Flame

Somehow there is this odd notion out there that 'collecting for fun' has nothing to do with value. Collecting "just for fun" and having respect for the worth of your collection are not mutually exclusive. Regardless of why *you* collect, your Limited Editions have value. The marketplace is pretty clear: the original box is part of that value, whether its valuable to you personally or not.

Keep the boxes - and keep 'em clean and dry. The styrofoam peanuts used in the earlier pieces are not part of the collectible. You can bag these up and fold the boxes flat to conserve storage space. However the absence of the HL custom molded styrofoam that comes w/ later models does detract from the piece's value - consider it part of the box.

Rgds,
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/im

[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 04-08-99).]

I always find the debate over the value of boxes very interesting. It doesn't matter if you think the value of boxes is silly or not, (I do) the value is there, and it is real.

My collection is just that, mine. I have no intention of ever selling it. Then why do I keep the boxes? I certainly don't have the storage space. It is because I am concerned about the value and safety of my collection. As far as the value, I would be lying to myself if I said I wasn't concerned, even though I don't plan on selling. Everybody likes to see the value of their belongings go up. The safety comes in if I ever have to move again. I have moved my collection once, and I will say the value of the boxes was well worth the hassle of having to store them.

So, I will continue to keep my boxes and to do everything in my power to purchase pieces that are in their original box if possible, even though I think it is crazy that some boxes are, theoretically, worth more than some Harbour Lights.

-Todd

Michael and Karen: There have also been previous discussions on the "box" question. Hit the seach button and you'll find more to read including where some folks store them. I guess even if you don't plan to sell them they are "the place" to store the HL's if you don't have the ability to display them. Also the question of moving is certainly a good reason. If we just keep the HL's and never sell them the boxes won't have any monetary value. But down the road a ways maybe our great-grandchildren will show up on "Antiques Roadshow" and will be told, "Seeing that it's in such great condition and you have the original box it's worth $xxxxxx!"

Hey mombo

I like your decimal point.

Fred

Hey Mombo, ... Could you please give me the telephone #'s of your great grandchildren so I can make them an offer before they hit the "Road Show?" LOL

I agree with everything but I thought
I would pass this on.
My local dealer has the following
empty boxes that they are going to
throw away (Pieces were damaged)
so if you need these, email me (I'll send you there phone number). They are
talking $1-$5 (or free because they
are going to trash them.)
102 Cape hatterus
132 Ponce De Leon
147 Port Isabel

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Sidd



[This message has been edited by sidd (edited 04-10-99).]

Everyone has their opinion. You are buying the piece. How much do you value the box? Are you buying it to sell it or display it? I buy to display only, never intend to sell any and plan to own all LE's, I could care less about the box or future value. If I like it and you have it with or without the box I'll buy it. But given two pieces equally or comparably price for shipping purposes I will buy the one with the original box first. Your motivation should determine the value of the box.

Looks as if most agree on the importance of keeping
the boxes. There are some very good and valid reasons
listed here.
I also keep mine, but to store them I break them down and
put them in large plastic containers. I get the containers large
enough to only have to fold back a flap from the top or bottom
of the box. This way I have no "broken" or creased boxes.
I don't, however, keep the custom molded foam.
I don't necessarily disagree with Tim's remark about the
importance of keeping these, but I'm not convinced that it should
be considered part the box.
Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Maybe some experience
that might shed some light on whether it does effect the value?
By the way, I work in the custom molding industry. The company I
work for is the leading manufacturer of custom molded products
in the United States.

Debbie



[This message has been edited by tnkeeper (edited 04-13-99).]

Unlike the eariler styrofoam peanuts, the molded inserts are custom made for each particular model and stamped with the Harbour Lights name. (no seahorses yet :-) ) They also have a small indent to hold registration card packet.

Folks can do with them as they like, but again - the market place has determined a piece with original packaging is more valuable. It is for all these reasons I say, keep both box and custom insert.

If I bought a piece advertised as 'MIB' (mint in box) which originally came with a molded insert, but the sale did not include the insert, I would judge the piece as misrepresented.

Rgds,
__
/im

In addition to business reasons for keeping boxes, the transport of the pieces are much safer in their original packaging. Even if you don't plan on moving, what about store event signings?

I have not become as advanced as Paul has with his holding box, so the boxes/styro was very much appreciated. Those collectors that brought HLs to the event in other fashions had pieces that were chipped either in transport or perhaps from other unsafe handling.

I say to hell with it: Keep the boxes & throw away the lighthouse. Someone once told me a HL box without the lighthouse decreases its value by up to 99%. Any truth to this?

99% would appear to be a little high!

Don't know about the rest of you but once I take one out I'll be darned if I can figure out how to get it back in the foam. And you have to be so careful now with all the railings, etc.

Bill'd be come and gone and I'd still be scratching my head.

Signatureless in Syracuse

Wow!

I thought I was the only one that couldn't get them back in the inserts! I feel a lot better.

Now if I could just get the shrink wrap back on nmy album covers!


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Jeff

Not only do I keep the boxes to my Harbour Lights, I keep the boxes to anything that I have that is valuable (fortunately, I have a great big basement). I have many Christmas ornaments in their original boxes which makes storing them a breeze- no more broken ornaments when it comes time to put up the tree! I also have the boxes from my computer, 2 VCR's, our stereo equipment and so much more. I am not ever planning on moving, but if I had to, I know that I could pack these items and ship them safely. Yes, I collapse boxes whenever I can, but I never throw away custom molded inserts. I am also fortunate enough to have an 11 year old son who is a whiz at figuring out how to fit things back into these oddly shaped pieces of styrofoam- so if you are having trouble, just find a youngster- they also are whizzes at removing child-resistant caps from medicine (I know this to be true- I am a pharmacist!).

>>I say to hell with it: Keep the boxes & throw away the lighthouse. <<

ROFL! ...if I'd been drinking milk when I read this, I'd have blown it out my nose.

Perhaps someone should offer a line representing famous collectible packaging: BLOWs (Box Legends Of the World).

__
/im SRSOF - Stopped Rolling, Still on Floor

Yes, one & all. You should keep your boxes & throw out the lighthouses. I will be glad to receive all lighthouses (NOT IN THIER BOX)& I will even pay the shipping myself!!!! So feel free to send all you want!!

I do though keep all boxes to everything! Not includeing lighthouses, when I upgrade I put the old in its original box & either sell it or give it as a gift. Looks & sells much nicer in the original box.

Paul,
Show us your HL box display! LOL TIC
Bob

I have a deep closet in the bathroom. The back half of the shelves is full of HL boxes. I could take a photo of it and post it if we're looking to see each others "box displays". Of course you'd have to peek around the toothpaste, shaving cream, tylenol, etc. to see the boxes.

Paul's display, I'm sure, would be much classier!

Mombo

I'm a collector and not a speculator, but I'm also a "purist". I wouldn't touch a HL without its box, packaging, and papers. I also won't display one unless it is behind glass where it is protected from dust.

Tim - I believe some HLs were first shipped in loose 'peanuts' and later shipped to molded inserts. Perhaps we can get Art to start a new series of threads on which items had loose foam nuggets (mmm, mmm, good!) and which had hard inserts.

BTW, I notice lately that the foam inserts have raised bands around the outside, providing about 1/4" of 'air' between the outer box and the rest of the hard insert. I think this is a good idea.

This topic has been around for a while and people have definitely expressed their opinions. If someone had a limited edition I needed for my collection and the box was missing, I could care less. I would purchase it anyways. Would I pay "top dollar" for the piece? No, I wouldn't. As a matter of fact I probably would be looking for a deal with or without the box.

People should expect a little more for a piece if it is "MIB". After all, it's definitely a pain in the neck storing all these boxes at home. (I have over 200 of them around the house!)

So if any of you have a CH-1 or CH-2, Coquille River, Ponce de Leon, St. Augustine, Portland Head, Hilton Head, or an Ocracoke without a box and you feel bad enough to discount the piece because you have no box, click on the icon for my email address and send me a message.

Bob

I keep my collection of HL in the original boxes only because I cannot display all lighthouses I own. I keep the boxes for storage purposes not for the value they may bring in the future although the thought has crossed my mind that that is a good reason for keeping the original packaging. I would be too afraid to wrap the lighthouse in paper or bubble wrap and then store in some other large box. Keeping the orginal box does make storage a problem, but I would rather deal with that than chipped or broken pieces. I do take the plastic baggie off the lighthouse when I first receive it. Is there any thought about keeping the lighthouses in plastic and in the foam?

I've found that the plastic baggie around the sculpture protects it from the foam insert. Without the baggie the foam will wear the paint off anyplace the foam touches in short order.

I concur with Lamar - don't put it in the hard foam unless you protect it with the plastic bag.