Please answer the following questions to express your feelings about the possibility of Harbour Lights producing a Special Edition piece recognizing the Collector Forums.

Note: This is the initial list of questions. There will be another poll later dealing with possible issues other than what appears in this current poll.

Should be paid members of the Forum!

It will be in teresting to see how this turns out. It may give us some direction.

Mike

John,

Something is wrong with the percentages. You can never to over 100%.

bobo

Some questions (those with square boxes to check) are multiple choice. In those questions, you will have totals of over 100%.

Those questions with circles permit only one choice; they will add up to 100%.

Questions #3 and #6 allow for up to three answers. You don't have to check that many, but the option is there.

The poll is going well so far. I'm hoping we have a tremendous response to this poll so it would be a good indicator of the feasibility of this proposed project.

Like many of you, I feel this is a worthwhile project. I also like my new Dodge Ram, but that doesn't mean everybody should buy one.

The Collector Forums is like a melting pot. We have all kinds of people from all walks of life. What brings us here is a mutual interest in Harbour Lights and lighthouses.

If it wasn't for Harbour Lights, many of us wouldn't be here. Because of our interest in Harbour Lights, more interest has been channelled into lighthouse preservation and restoration. People have banded together and made a difference. It seems very fitting to me that all the good work that has been initiated at the CF and accomplished by CF members deserves recognition.

Whether or not a special edition recognizing the Collector Forum and its faithful registered members, remains to be seen. The success of this project lies in our hands. If our people commit to this project, it will become a reality. If only a handful of people show immediate interest, then we're doomed. It's as simple as that. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Like all good business people, Kim is willing to listen to our proposal. Why would she think otherwise? Many faithful collectors of HL products are in the group. Her company is not being ask to donate these pieces. They are being asked to produce something that will make a profit for their business. They will be asked to produce a piece recognizing the CF. We as members of the CF will be asked to commit to a certain number of pieces. Will we have the numbers to make this proposal a reality? Could this lead to future similar proposals?

Ladies and gentlemen, it is up to us. The success of this project lies in all our hands. If we all step up to the plate, we can hit a home run. We need everyone's support on this project. There is no teetering allowed. Either you are for the project, or against the project. You are not being asked to donate money. You are being asked to commit to buying a piece that will be designated by a majority vote of our participating members. There will be no inflated price. You will pay no more than you would for any other HL replica. You will be buying a quality limited edition piece for a reasonable price.

The choice is yours. Are you in favor of this project? Will you commit to purchasing the piece as approved by a majority vote of our CF members? The answers to these questions will determine if this project will go forward.

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

This is a great poll Bob.
Keep up the good work.
So Far I don't see any surprises.
Except maybe the price range.
So far we are running neck to neck on below $50 and above $50

Bobo,

It's that old statement when taking a test- follow directions.

I didn't notice that you could choose more than one response so I picked one when I might have liked to pick two.

I didn't follow directions.

Bob is absolutely correct- this will not happen without the people here on the forums taking the bull by the horns and just doing it.

I'm in favor of this concept. I intend to purchase it when it is available and I'll help with the creation of it and the "selling" of it.

I know I've been quiet on this topic up to this point. I just wanted to let it be known I support it and will help with it.

Dennis

Dennis,

I once had an economics professor in college, who emphasized that all questions should be read first before answerimg anythihg. I did, and the very last question was to sign the blue book and to turn it in.

I did, and recieved an "A" in the course. The final exam was a take home which had to be returned by 8:00 the next morning. I worked all night. It's great to follow directions -- not just economics.

I learned a lot from that man.

bobo

The lighting Rod is a big hit.
It would be awesume if HL could do a lighting Rod for a special CF Edition.

Although the rods are, by far, the most popular "special feature", I'm not sure if, logistically, they would work. Don't forget, HL hasn't made a replica with a lightning rod since very early on. Perhaps they no longer are capable of the manufacturing techniques required to make them. It all depends on how they make them.

In my opinion (and that's what forums are for, expression of opinions), HL is probably going to be more likely to turn down a lightning rod than the other options. It wouldn't cost them any more money to paint the water green or make minor paint variations - they use the same amount of paint anyway. However, it could make the price much higher to have a lightning rod in the piece.

Don't get me wrong, the rod is something I would really love to see on the piece. However, thinking realistically, I don't know if it is as likely as the other options.

The lightning rod would be the ONE FEATURE that I would prefer over any other special feature and I would willingly pay more to have that feature. I would also like the piece to have green water but feel a paint difference is too much. How would you ever set a true secondary market value with paint differences(My piece has a red boat and your is blue. Mine is worth more because it's red.). A rod would be great and green water is the icing on the cake.

I solved the lighting rod problem.
All HL has to do is supply a hole on top and call it some kind of casting venting.
Then all collectors have to do is get Lighting rod replacements from HL that are given out for the early models. This would totally be at the collectors risk to get a rod and insert one on their CF exclusive and not HL.


If the first 250 were going to have green water that would be okay, Mainly because collectors like the green water and would want both colors raising the value. But I don’t think any other paint version would make one set out more popular than the other. (Unless it was an extremely limited to a few). For example we all know how collectors love the green water version, the secondary market is proof enough, but other paint version never seem to cut the cake.
Look at the 5-year membership point Fermin mini #519, it had three different boat colors and was signed by three different people. It carried a higher secondary market than the #528 society mini, because of its different number and that in general it had some paint variations, but I never noticed that one boat color was worth more than the other. I never even seen the sellers on ebay mention the boat colors.
But if collectors wanted different boat colors it wouldn’t effect the secondary market either way.

If you were going to do some kind of a color difference between lighthouses, it would be neat to have a different color (lets say a boat for example) for a Saint, Cruise Director, Super Wacko and Wacko. That and the green water is the only kind of paint difference I would like to see.

Good lightning rod idea, Daniel! That might work out. Or maybe only include rods with a certain amount of lights, just like the originals.

However, if we were to do that, than I think there should be no paint variations. There should only be one factor that has two versions across the 500 pieces. Otherwise, it would become too complicated for such a small amount of lights, and those who try to collect every single solitary item put out by HL in every variation would not be able to. Don't forget, these will for sure find their way onto the secondary market.

CF members and non-connected collectors will both have those who want to get all versions of the light. The most that there should be available should be 2 different forms of the light. Some of my ideas:

1) Lightning rods - 250 with, 250 without. Nice, even split, using Daniel's idea, including the rod piece in the box of the pieces with holes.

2) Forum Rank Paint Variations: This should also be limited to two versions. One for administrative members (Saints and CDs) and one for regular members (Super Wackos and Wackos). Otherwise, it is too complicated, and with the small handful of Saints available, it would not go well with the "get 'em all" collectors. Even if every Saint ordered two, there would only be about 25 in the world, and only 12 is not enough to satisfy the larger number of those who would want the administrative piece.

If you add the 15 or so CDs to the 12 or so Saints, you then have 27 members and 27 extra pieces. More pieces, still very limited, but enough to satisfy enough but still leave some wanting one (thus secondary market!)

Wackos and Superwackos would have the "regular" piece, possibly another colour or something on a certain part of the sculpture. This would constutute a majority of the pieces.

However, I'm not sure if this would work out well. HL might not want to have such a limited number of such a limited piece available to such a "limited group of a limited group". I think that we have more of a chance of making this fly if we stay away from those kinds of variations. I think that Saints and CDs should instead be honoured with the lowest numbers, between 11-25(ish).

3) Green Water - 50/50 split. This would be more popular as a variation, as many people love green water. First 250 have green, other 250 have blue. This would probably fly very well, it's popular and extremely easy to do for HL - just paint the water with different coloured paint for half of them. They were going to paint it anyway.


There are many possibilities. However, we just can't go overboard with 500 pieces. That one factor with two variations is as far as I think we should go. Otherwise, there aren't even enough to go around for CF members.

I would like to see all registered members of the CF treated the same on this proposed piece as far as green water availability. The only requirements for the GW piece should be a pre-ordered piece and being a registered member at the CF. The two biggest concerns will be what light to replicate and how many should be manufactured.

Once a list and number of pre-orders is given to Harbour Lights, everything beyond that point should be blue water. I also believe all pieces should come with a drilled hole in the ventilator ball for lightning rod insertion. There is no need to ship with the LR in place. It can be provided in the box and the buyer can put the LR in place.

If these pieces are going to have sequential flag#'s, maybe consideration for lower numbers should go to those who have done the most to keep things active at the CF. I would nominate Saint John to receive #1. In my opinion, without him there would have never been a Collector Forums. I would also like to see John have a say in how the rest of the numbers would be given out. He knows who has worked behind the scenes to keep the whole CF thing going.

The original suggestion for this special piece was to honor the CF. I personally would like to see it stay that way. Although these various HL clubs have done great things to promote lighthouse restoration, I personally would prefer to recognize the CF only. If the HL Collector clubs want a special piece to honor what they have done, then they should approach Harbour Lights about it. Most every member of the collector clubs are registered members of the CF so everyone should have an opportunity to purchase the proposed special piece whatever it may turn out to be.

I would also like to see more comments in this thread to show more interest in this proposed project. Without more support of this venture, there will be no project. I don't feel that Harbour Lights will want to produce such a special piece unless their is a lot of support.

Bob

About Green Water pieces. The reason these are of interest is NOT the color of the water, but that only some of the edition has this color water. It's a variation. I don't think we should have different variations within such a short run.

John,

I've gotta agreee with ou on this one. Whether the water is green or blue or purple makes no difference. The product is what's inportant.

Bobo

How about around the first 120 of them to be enhanced by Kim. Just like the Baileys harbor.
That would cover one for each of the Saints, Cruise Director, Super Wacko and Wacko.

Bob,
I like the idea of a special piece for members of the Forum. The lightning rod would be a great hit. I think Harbour Lights could do this as they have made made special editions for that little store in Wells, Maine. The Pieces are about the size of the Society pieces and sell for about $30.00 With lightnig rod might be a little higher. Both special editions have a run of 1200.
Bill B

It seems to me that instituting one or two color differences (or "enhancements", or "touches") on just a few pieces makes the whole process complicated for no purpose other than to create a special piece (and bragging rights) for one individual that other collectors couldn't get their hands on. I would vote for one of two alternatives. 1- Make all pieces identical. Any variation inadvertently produced would be destroyed on the spot. Or 2- Hold two or three features constant (color of the water or tower or roof, etc.), give each of the painters eight colors of paint, and impose no restrictions whatsoever on how they paint all other areas. That way an unlimited number of variations would be generated. Every single person would then be able to inexpensively own a true "variation" and there would be no reason (or opportunity) for any collector to need to buy more than one for their personal collection. The only drawback to this would, of course, be that this would add another 1,000 numbers to Rod's list.

Gary

There is one thing we all agree upon.
And that is having a lighting rod

I agree with Gary. Make the piece simple, with no variations. But I would like to have green water and a lighting rod if that doesn't add to complications in making the piece.

As far as flag#, why not use the opportunity to sell raffle tickets with the purchase of the piece. The tickets go into a pool and flag# is determined by when your ticket is pulled. If you purchase 2 pieces then they would be numbered sequentially. Limit 2 pieces to a member unless they don't sell out, then the remainder are sold off to who ever wishes to purchase extras.

$$ from the raffle go to support the light chosen for the Wacko badge that year.

I like the idea of "A Lightning Rod and Green Water" on ALL PIECES. KISS(keep it simple stupid) is the name of the game . All pieces would have the same features so there will not be the extra costs of creating all types of variations with the paint. If we can't go with the green water then let's just go with the Lightning Rod and be satisfied. I like Melody's idea of having a drawing to decide serial numbers so that everyone gets a fair shake at getting a low number but I feel the profit should go to support the Collectors Forum instead of the lighthouse that's picked. We need to get this thing settled and on to the job of selecting the lighthouse before we run this into the ground and Harbour Lights figures we can decide anything among ourselves and decides not to do this for us. I'll take 2 of anything so let's get this show on the road and get them made before I'm too old to appreciate the special piece.

I agree with Gary. Make one piece, keep it simple but make it somehow unique to LE's. Making special pieces for select members of a group of people will do no more than open the door for hard feelings within the membership (by reading some of the posts, it has already started). Reward the deserving members with lower flag #'s. I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.

I'm not so sure we should get too set on the idea of a lightning rod. First off, Harbour Lights hasn't done one in what, 10 years? Secondly, depending on the size of the piece we pick, and H.L. is willing to do, (i.e. a slightly big LLOM) a lightning rod may not be appropriatly sized for the piece. We're all thinking about the rods on a full size L.E, which is somewhat to scale. However a rod on say, a piece the size of the Hooper Straits Reunion Mini may be a little out of scale to look good. Plus, I just can't help but think that if H.L. had found some new technology to be able to do rods again they would have by now.

I do like the idea of the green water. As for any other variation, I'd say leave that up to the actual painters. Tell H.L. if they want to throw in an occasional surprise to do it. But to "plan" a variation kinda takes a way from the idea of a variation if you ask me, not that anybody did!

That just my 2 cents worth.

Mike