To continue our discussion of next year's reunion.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
The basic information on the reunion:
The 2005 Collectors Family Reunion will be held August 29th to September 1, 2005 on Mackinac Island, Michigan at the Mission Point Resort. This reunion will be different than past reunions in that it will be planned by collectors in association with Younger and Associates. Our own Saint Dave Hannum will coordinate the reunion aided by other collectors including Patty Kaiser.

There will be two lighthouse viewing cruises, special activities, such as paint your own lighthouse, and lots of down time to explore the island and hang out with the other wackos.

Existing members of HL collectors clubs were able to pre-register through their clubs and by mail. These members will receive Reunion Exclusive numbers after the call in registrants, but were able to call in to improve their numbers. Call in registration was Thursday October 7th, 2004. Prices are set by the number of adults in the room:
Cost for 1 adult will be $1250.00
Cost for 2 adults will be $1900.00
Cost for 3 adults will be $2600.00
Cost for 4 adults will be $3300.00

These costs will be broken into 3 payments with a deposit due at registration, a payment due on 1/15/05 and the final payment due on 5/15/05.

Bob,

We'll have to reread the rereading of the reading.

I guess I wasn't clear in my post- I was not trying to be negative or nasty about Dave's efforts. I was simply making the point that while the planning of the event may be done by collectors for Collectors that the event itself is still very much an Official Harbour lights Event.

Those planning it have to, I'm sure, follow certain guidelines placed on them by Harbour Lights. Dave and the other planners have a great deal of latitude but at the end of the day they still have to satisfy HL. I believe they are doing a fine job- much better than I could do, probably.

Saying that it doesn't preclude me and others from having and voicing opinions, comments, concerns and ideas on how things could be done.

I don't believe I made any comments that were out of line and I have not stated that I have a right to complain but you don't have a right to complain about the complainers. I have not personally attacked or disparaged anyone-I've just made some observations and shared my opinions.

I'll add here that all of this post is not in response to Bob alone. I've tried to respond to all at the same time.

One last point for now- I mentioned earlier that I recalled a postcard being sent out by HL prior to the Baltimore Reunion Signup to all members of the Collectors Society. Does anyone else recall this happening?

Dennis

As a moderator of this forum, I have tried not to enter the discussion too much, but rather let it take it's own path. However, I think we may all be jumping the gun a little, as we sometimes tend to do. We don't know how many slots are left for those who receive their Legacy late because of the strange ways that bulk mail travels. Until we have folks screaming because they couldn't register, we don't know if we have a problem. I will say also that folks were offered the chance to get the Legacy by e-mail or by first class mail, and either of those options may have resolved this problem, if there indeed is one.
Meantime, lets all thank Dave and Patty for the incredible amount of work that they have done, often in situations when they have control over very little, and if you choose to attend the events of next year, look foward to a great reunion.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE -- lets everyone step back, take a deep breath, do some soul searching, relax and regroup. Opinions are bound to differ widely and are undoubtedly going to range from one end of the spectrum to the other.

We all love the same things – LIGHTHOUSES. That should act as a bonding agent that holds us all together. Everyone should feel free to say what they think and everyone should feel free to post a negative viewpoint. PRO and CON so to speak.

But are catfights really necessary? On Wednesday we had a meeting of our Townhouse Association that resulted in yelling and screaming and fisticuffs in the parking lot. We don’t want that, do we? PEACE AND LOVE. CHRISTMAS IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER.

Bob

So is this sold out or what?

The reunion is not sold out yet.

Harbour Lights is in business of making lighthouses and not into planning reunion activities. So what is wrong with someone else doing the planning? My hats off to Dave and Patty for doing the job of planning this event.
Hal

Hal,

I don't believe anybody said it was wrong for HL to outsource the planning of the Reunion- although by all accounts they did a fairly good job on the first three.

I just pointed out that although the planning of the Reunion is being done by non-employees of HL the Reunion is still an official event of HL and as such has to be done the way that HL wants it done.

I never stated or intended anyone to think that Dave and the others were not doing a good job. I voiced some thoughts and opinions on specific aspects that I thought were overlooked. I don't know about you but I'm not perfect and I'm sure if I tried to do the planning on this I'd forget many more things.

The planning on this Reunion has been excellent but there have been some aspects that might have been done differently to more fairly accomadate all HL collectors.

Yes life is not fair but that doesn't mean we can't try and make a level playing field for all interested. I don't understand the concept of that attitude- life's not fair stop complaining and live with it. The only way to assure that something is not repeated is to voice an opinion about it.

It doesn't matter if the situation being discussed is being done by professionals or volunteers. I don't believe that simply because something is being done by volunteers that it precludes asking questions and voicing concerns- as long as it is done in the proper manner. I believe I have done that.

Dennis

Does anyone know if Notre Dame won yesterday?? :rolleyes:

You can please some of the people some of the time.

You can please some of the people all of the time.

BUT you can not please all of the people all of the time.

Digger,

I suspect you already know this- but yes Notre Dame did win 23-15. Apparently it was not a well played game by Stanford.

Here's a link to a non-biased story out of San Jose, CA

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/9881727.htm?1c

Dennis

Thanks Dennis. Didn't mean to distract anyones attention away from such a heated topic. Wait, yes I did. Sort of like the rubber brick and the TV. Get out your frustration but don't hurt anyone when you throw it!

Wow, I havn't been reading the forum in the past week and boy it sounds as though I miss out on some verbal fireworks. I would like to respectfully reply to those who have commented on behalf of those who do not choose, or cannot afford computers, that they were unfairly discriminated against. I don't know of any library in the country these days that is not connected to the internet. I do believe anyone with a library card can access the internet which will in turn take you to the forum, or harbour lights, and find out what they need or want to about up coming events. I have a friend who does not own a computer and she goes and picks up her email every few days at the local library. She emails pictures to her sons on the west coast and she accesses the internet for info on trips, etc. Although I do think it was a sad and unfortunate mix up that the legacy did not arrive at a more opportune time in order to alert prospective reunion goers. That being said I would like to know if anyone personally knows of someone who wanted to make the phone call on October 7th and didn't because they did not receive their legacy?
Also,(I ask this with a very respectful tone) does anyone really know someone who was not able to make reservations to the 2005 reunion because the legacy was late in arriving?? And wow, if there is anyone out there that is so disconnected from what harbour lights is doing that they did not have any idea about how to get into the 2005 reunion, and the reunion was totally booked solid on the calling day, and they are so into lighthouses that if would be unfair they didn't get to go they can have my spot at the reunion (you'll have to negotiate with Larry though). I don't want Jesus to be ashamed of me when I stand before Him on judgment day. I pray that everyone who wishes to go to the 2005 reunion is able; I also pray we all will find peace, harmony and love in the coming months, and that this reunion will be a wonderful joyous event for all. Let your hearts not be troubled for the things of this earth will pass away. Seek first the kingdom of God, and everything else will be added unto you.

Kat,

I know it is difficult to comprehend for most of us that are computer connected- but not everybody is.

I hear tell that some people don't have a cell phone either- or if they have one they only use it for emergencies.

I never intended my comments to be intrepreted as verbal fireworks. I just think it might have been nice for HL or someone to let all those who might be interested in getting to the first Reunion in several years to be privy to that information.

As I noted previously I believe this was done by sending out a postcard to all registered Collectors society members early enough to make sure they had knowledge of at least the basics about the Reunion in time to make an informed decision as to if they wanted to or could go to the Reunion.

I guess I'm in the minority in this concept- much of the response has fallen into the category of life isn't fair and if they are not interested enough to find these things out for themselves they must not want to go.

Someone explain to me how you find out about something that you have no idea is happening. It's not like these Reunions happen on a regular basis.

I'm still waiting for my copy of the latest Legacy- and I upgraded to the First Class delivery.

I guess I'm just anold rabble rouser and malcontent and I apologize if I've offended anyone in my comments about my perceptions of unfairness that has occurred in this situation.

I obviously knew about the signup- although I was unaware that I was even a member of a HL Collectors club (but that's another subject we don't care to discuss here either).

I'll reiterate my basic statement- the planning commitee of Dave, Payyt and the others have done an great job in the planning so far. I jsut had a few questions- as did others- and concerns that I raised not to denigrate their efforts but in the attempt to make the next one better and to help get the message out as clearly as possible.

I guess I just never learn.

Dennis

Beautiful, Kat. Just beautiful.

Bob

Dennis,

I didn't intrepret your feelings that way.

Bob

Dennis and other interested parties,

There was indeed a postcard sent out to alert collectors to the telephone registration for the Baltimore Reunion. I have mine on the desk in front of me as I write this.

Telephone registration was Saturday, October 14, 2000 for the Reunion on October 4-7, 2001. I cannot tell with certainty when the postcard was mailed because I cannot decipher the machine generated address.

And to answer a question I've seen somewhere on the Forums about the event piece, the postcard mentions Hooper's Strait. So the event piece for Baltimore wasn't a secret at least a year before the dates of the Reunion.

My kids call me a curmudgeon. Always have been. I tend to see things differently and to ask different questions, and give different answers, than many people.

The folks who have/are orgainzing the Mackinac Reunion have done a lot of work. They deserve credit for taking the initiative that others didn't and getting a 4th Reunion on the schedule. But whether or not they have done a good job depends on a couple of things.

First, what outcome are they trying to accomplish? Second, when all is said and done, do they accomplish it. Based on what I've seen so far, I'd say the jury is still out.

This is all my opinion and I am not attempting to raise anyone's ire, nor am I typing with animosity or resentment. I'm just trying to offer what I see as some shortcomings and challenges for the Mackinac Reunion and the folks who are organizing it and the next Reunion.

In no particular order:

- The lack of time to decide about attendance. Announcement of the Reunion was much closer to the registration date than I recall any of the previous Reunions being. The initial annoucement was made to a much narrower cross section of collectors than any previous Reunion.

- There is the opportunity for something near 50% of the number of attendees in Providence or Baltimore to go to Mackinac, just because of the difference in the number of available rooms. If everything else was equal, that alone would have meant a lot of disappointed Collectors.

- The logistics of getting to Mackinac are more complex for much of the nation than the logistics of getting to San Diego, Providence or Baltimore. Once you got to the airport for those cities you were in good shape. Grab the hotel shuttle or a cab and head for the event hotel. Not so with Mackinac. Get to the airport of your choice and you still have a ground transportation requirement. No hotel shuttles, no cabs. Maybe a bus if there are extra trips like other reunions. Most likely a long drive in a rental car, that will sit idle for the time spent on the Island.

- The whole early registration for HLs clubs put a damper on my enthusiasm, and I suspect the same for others. There are times when I find myself wondering if this event wouldn't be more accurately titled 'Gathering of Harbour Lights Collector Club Membership'.

- The timing, before Labor Day, is different than every previous Reunion. I think it causes Mackinac to compete with planned summer activities that other Reunions didn't have to.

- The Legacy thing. I didn't get mine until the 8th, Dennis got his on the 9th. How many other Collectors got theirs late? I know, (paraphasing here) 'real collectors know about and frequent the Forums, so what's the big deal? It was announced here.' Well, I've been watching the numbers of visitors listed at the bottom of the Forum title page. It runs between roughly 100 and 300, with about 75% of those numbers being 'Guests'. Where are the rest of the collectors that Harbour Lights makes Limited Editions of 3,000 and more for? How the heck were they supposed to know about Mackinac?

- The registration fee itself is more than previous Reunions. Granted, time has passed and lots of things cost more today than at the time of other Reunions. But coupled with the challenging logistics and unfortunate timimg and methods of the announcement for Mackinac, the overall cost is something that deserves careful consideration.

Yes, I know that 'life isn't fair'. Used to tell the kids that life wasn't fair. But I also told them that whenever they had to make decisions that affected other people, they ought to try to make them as fair as possible. I'm not convinced that has happened as the planning for Mackinac has progressed. I'm also not sure who was driving the descisions that have been questioned. The Youngers and Harbour Lights? Or the organizing committee? It makes a difference in where the comments and dis-satisfaction should be directed.

So, Dennis, you are not alone in thinking that maybe some things could have been done differently, and a bit more fairly.

All in all, I think it's sad that there isn't as much enthusiasm, and a lot more questions, for Mackinac as there was for any of the previous Reunions. And I think that the general decline in interest in collectibles is as much to blame as the decisions of the Mackinac committee or Harbour Lights.

If you're going, have a great time! If you have decided not to attend, that's okay too. There are lots of others that made the same decision. And that's okay. Reunion attendance and Forum participation aren't requirements for interest in and enthusiasim for, lighthouses and Harbour Lights.

Rick, aka, The curmudgeon.

Not all "Real Collectors" attend this Forum. I am an example. This was definately issue #1 for me. I have not yet received my copy of the Legacy. The only way I found out this was going to happen was because I attended a Store Event where the rumor was leaked out. If I had not gotten this tidbit of information I would never have known about the Reunion.

Issue #2 was the short notice, we had a vacation planned for months so I was not able to make plans to call in, I did not have the time available to play the phone in game. This really was a mute point anyway since registration was setup for a Thursday. I would have probably been at work anyway and wouldn't have been able to register.

The question is were these limitations Harbour Lights used to reduce the size of the Reunion or just poor planning?

Mr. Curmudgeon I like your Harbour Lights Collectors Club Reunion referrence, LOL, but I wonder how much notice they got? Of course I haven't seen any negatives brought up by any of the larger Clubs so I would have to believe that many new ahead of time.

With Maureen long out of the Harbour Lights picture who replaced her? Did she have a replacement? They had big shoes to fill in my book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

imho

It's always good to hear form you, Sean! With the number of HL Collector Clubs across the country, it's amazing there is any space at all when you take into consideration the limited amount of rooms available at Mackinac Island.

Bob

We all know that nobody could replace Maureen!

Wow some people have really put some thought into this whole reunion process. I'm a fairly busy person, as a lot of people are, but I do like to keep some things very simple. My view on this is, I heard, I saw, I called, I got (4 places) and I'm happy. The rest will sort itself out and the people putting this together have a lot more work to do before it's over. It won't be over till the last person leaves "Mack-in ack" who ever taught them northener's to speek.LOL Remember on anything this large that it may look smooth or easy on the outside but it is utter choas (controlled) on the inside. I say "Thanks for the hard work Dave. It will be a Grand Time for ALL."

I didn't mean to slight anyone, piss anyone off, insult anyone ect ect ect

Chuck

I think these are a couple of the issues being discussed. Not everyone was presented the information so they didn't see, they didn't here and they haven't called. lol

10/12, Legacy still not received.

On a positive note today at 6:19 est, I registered for the Reunion, so even at this point there are still spaces available.

Were In!!!!!

Very good summation Rick!

Somewhere in all this I believe I read that the Legacy was supposed to have been mailed so that folks received it by September 1st. Obviously that didn't happen. Looks like a major faux pas by HL.

My Legacy just arrived today...

It's been interesting reading all of the comments posted here. The reunion sounds like a lot of fun. Unfortunately we're not going to be able to attend. For two years, we've been planning an Alaskan cruise with another couple. On October 7, I booked that instead. It's going to cost a lot more than the reunion. A while back I lost a lot of sleep, trying to figure out if we would be able to afford to do both and have the vacation time. Then I remembered that we had a family vacation to Florida planned for October 2005. (We planned this while in Florida 2000.) Anyway, somewhere I thought I'd read that this could be the last one. Hope not.

Good thing for this forum to keep me informed. I still haven't received my Legacy yet. (Though I was told my picture with Kim is in there at Bailey's Harbor),I guess I'll get it some day.
Did I smile?

Ken

My copy of the Legacy has yet to arrive. I believe it must have grown feet and is walking from California - or where ever its point of origin is supposed to be. For all I know it might be Saturn.

Tammy, I'm so sorry that you two are not able to attend the 2005 Reunion. You both will be missed.

Another Reunion? I certainly hope so.

Will there be any night photo trips scheduled.

Chuck

Chuck,

One thing to note is that when Mackinac Island shuts down for the evening, it SHUTS DOWN! There are plenty of things to shoot at night on the island as long as your not looking for lighthouses. Remember there are none on the island itself. The ferry's quit running at 9:00 during tourist season and if you miss the last one, then you better make a friend fast who owns a boat or be a very good swimmer. I'm not sure about the planned boat tours but I would assume they are during the daytime unless one is a dinner/sunset cruise that would visit White Shoal. One thing we found out was that the "islanders" really value the islands quiet atmosphere at night so stay inside if you plan to party at night or you will get a rude "reminder"! Digger got a good butt chewin'!

Not one on the Island?

Chuck

Digger,

No Lighthouses? What else DOESN'T the island have? Is is "dry"?

Bob

Round Island lighthouse lies south right on the entrance to Mackinac Island harbor. You can get your best shots as the ferry passes fairly close to Round Island as they approach Mackinac. Unless Dave has made special arrangements there is no public access to Round Island or the pierhead light. The locals refer to tourists as "fudgies" and remember to never pronounce Mackinac with the "c" ending. Even though it is spelled Mackinac, it is pronounced Mackinaw. You will love the natural beauty of mackinac. We visit there 3 times each year and consider it our 2nd home.

Also if you are a boatnerd you will love the area. The giant great lakes frieghters pass between Round Island and Mackinac Island on their way to the Soo Locks so there are great photo opportunities. A shipwatchers paradise awaits at the "straits". If you have the time, the USCGC MACKINAW's home station is just a few miles south of Mackinaw City in Cheboygen.

Hey Digger, ....Any chance of you digging a tunnel to the island so the crew can hit the mainland for late night entertainment?

Bob

Just remember that everybody staying in the hotel except for the staff are fellow Wacko's and HL Collectors that need to be recruited to become part of the Forums and of course then become fellow Wackos!

Excellent point, Paul.

Is there a possibility to discover who is and who isn't? Maybe even set up a sign up table of some sort? That might help to give them every opportunity.

As a last resort, we could say that refusal to join would eliminate the possibility of them taking the boat back to the mainland?

Bob

Paul,

I know that I've heard or read that quote somewhere before. Maybe Dave can provide a little guidance, but I'll be more than happy to help out.

For all those folks who pre-registered through a HL collectors club, please call Harbour Lights at 800-365-1219 and order your full size Reunion pieces. Thanks.

Wear your Wacko badges. Then the forum folks will stand out in a sea of collectors.

Chuck

If I remember correctly, Dave, you noted during the last Chat Room that you would like a few suggestions for Reunion activities. Well, everyone might know all about these things except me, but here goes.

1. How about a location where we could learn how to properly post pictures to the Forum. There many varieties of picture type software products out there, but maybe we could cover some of the major ones? Whatever they are. Possibly just simple, straight-forward handouts?

2. How to make and display personalized avatars.

3. How to add a variety of colors, fonts and clip art to the Forum messages. Some look really neat.

4. Maybe a concentrated effort to entice the non-Forum participants to make use of this wonderful communication tool that is available to us all? There are many collectors but few who are willing to post anything at all.

5. Could we make more of an attempt to “bring everyone into the fold” so to speak? Baltimore was my first and only Reunion. And the memory of it will live in my mind the rest of my life. But there were so many people that I found it to be rather intimidating. If it weren’t for Tom and Joyce Abbott, whom I had known previously from when I lived in Dallas, I would have felt a tad ostracized. Kind of outside looking in. NOT anyone's fault, mind you. Only mine. Maybe the smaller group will help bring everyone closer.

That’s it for now. Hopefully, I’ll think of more at a later time.

Bob

I'm w/Bob about the idea of "teaching" some of us the computer skills to better utilize these Forums.
Personally navigating the Forums is about the extent of my abilities. I would like to be able to post pictures of my LH travels even though they may not stack up w/those of some of the WACKO "pros". For example Sis and I have just concluded about a month of LH'ing. We saw 30 Maine lights, attended the NELL fall meeting and cruise and completed our 1st NJ Challenge.
I am so computer challenged that I'm not even sure what hardware is needed for these endeavours.
I would be eternally grateful to anyone who would stick to providing the basic information following the guideline KISS. I would like to learn what I need to know to do what I want to do rather than learn about everything that can be done from people who have forgotten that they were once "computer challenged".
Whether this be done at the Reunion or by the collective knowledge of the WACKO NATION on these Forums is immaterial. I truly want to better utilize this venue.
Thanks for being so patient.
Rick

Rich,

You hit the nail right on the head. It is so easy to “teach” above the current learning capacity of the student. And it’s not the fault of the student. It’s the fault of the instructor. Basically, many instructors talk “at” the students instead of “to” the students. WHY? Because it’s easier for the instructor since he or she doesn’t have to think. It sounds weird, but it’s true. The easiest thing to do when in front of a class is to talk in a your "comfort zone."

I spent 18 years of my life with Southwestern Bell Corporation traveling all over the country teaching graduate engineers on how to become proficient telecommunication engineers with 12 different courses. That was not always an easy task. Much of the training dealt with engineering principles of planning and designing of telephone systems.

But many of the engineers had graduated 20 years prior to coming to my classes. For many of them just looking at a computer was an exercise in intense intimidation. “How do I turn this darn thing on?” was not an unusual question. This was in the mid-70s, when we were still using the ATT 4420 dumb asynchronous terminals, which could do little more than send and receive. The printers were the old dot matrix printers that would always give a message through the computer to “align paper and hit carriage return.” Many times I had a question, “What is an alien paper?”

It seems silly now, but that’s the way it was. I had one individual get so upset that he hit the keyboard with his fist and broke it in half. That was followed by the comment, “If they make me use the darn thing, I’m gonna retire.” And his expletive word started with a D but it was not darn.

There are always three levels of students in a class: target, below target, and above target. A good instructor will always aim for the target audience. So hitting the three levels was always a difficult challenge. But it is doable. The below target population had to be led in a very soothing, coaxing manner. The target population would have to be pushed a little to reach higher than expected goals. I would allow the above target folks to charge in ill advised directions until they permitted themselves to become hopelessly stuck. Then I would attempt to bring them back to earth.

Frustration would usually set in at all three levels. But by the end of the one, two, or three weeks – depending upon the type of class – all of them knew what had to be done in order to succeed and meet their objectives in the work environment.

Bottom line, Rich, you are absolutely correct.

Bob

Bob,
You have some super ideas! I hope this happens.
I could sure use the help!

Does anybody know which lighthouses will be seen on the two lighthouse cruises featured at the reunion?

If I had to guess, I would say it will probably be the ones listed on their website. Dave could tell you for sure though.

Sheplers

Thanks Kay,

I also sincerely hope that it happens.

bobo

Thank YOU Dave!!!! If all the nay sayers and upset people can do abetter job,then I guess THEY
will plan and bring to fruition the next one!!!!
Thanks once again for all the hard work andtime.

Just bringing this to the top for Carol.

bobo