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Sad sight #18854 01/11/99 07:55 PM
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gary0920 Offline OP
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While visiting a dealer on the east coast of Florida, I saw a very sad sight. They had displays of various Harbour Lights stacked on the floor like cans of cream corn with a sign that said REDUCED. Some of the lighthouses were Longships, Yaquina Bay, Sharps Island, Presque Isle, Jeffery's Hook, and the open edition of New London Ledge. There were at least 20 to 30 of each and were discounted around $25 to $30. They also had a stack of 10 Navisinks for $125. I am wondering if Harbour LIghts gives these away at close-out prices to the dealers just to get the full allocation? Sad to think I paid full price for the Navisink just to see it on the shelf at a 50% reduction.

Why doesn't Harbour Lights just close the pieces out that haven't moved after a certiain period of time. Maybe this would be a good way to maintain the vaule of pieces that sit on the shelf past their prime.

Disapointed in Tallahassee


Gary
Re: Sad sight #18855 01/11/99 09:38 PM
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Harry R Offline
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That is said to say. I recently visited another place that didn't have it quite as bad. But this stationary store did not have the best display I have ever seen. I guess we as collectors almost have a reverance for these pieces & like to see them displayed proudly & with respect.

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Harry R


Harry R
Re: Sad sight #18856 01/11/99 09:40 PM
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Tim3167 Offline
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I have also noticed 2 dealers in my area in just the past week with their Harbour Lights reduced 25%. One of the dealers also stated that they are dropping the line. While it does provide a short term windfall for some collectors looking to buy pieces at bargain prices, it also seems to say that these dealers are having trouble moving Harbour Lights stock. It could be just a cyclic thing, but I worry that the line is having a bit of trouble in sales right now.

Tim

Re: Sad sight #18857 01/11/99 10:52 PM
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RMau Offline
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I've been collecting HL for around 4 years now. This is not the first time that dealers have dropped the line. I suspect that we'll see more of this in 1999. One reason is that there are many, many more dealers now than four or five years ago. This results in more competition and many cases, competition very close in geographic proximity. At the same time, I think the growth in the numbers of collectors has slowed from the pace of 1995/1996, when many of the Hallmarks of the dealer community were just beginning to carry the HL line. Last, as the line has grown and matured, I think many collectors have decided to concentrate their collections on some subset of the line, Southern Lights, lights they've visited, New England lights, etc. This means that even some old line dealers will have to make adjustments in their orders because they can't count on selling 'x' of every new piece.

Dealers are trying to earn a living too and need to periodically evaluate what's selling (and paying the bills) and what's not. I think we'll see this more and more this year as the dealers who don't have a core of dedicated collectors (read, known sales) decide to cast their fate with other inventories.

Re: Sad sight #18858 01/11/99 11:31 PM
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Congratulations RMau for making post #1111 on 1-11

Re: Sad sight #18859 01/12/99 01:03 AM
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Bob M Offline
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For those of you that don't know me, I live about 15 miles north of Providence RI and about 32 miles south of Boston. I have over 50 HL Dealers within an hours drive of my home. Some are big dealers with fast moving inventory while others are small dealers with a somewhat slower moving inventory. I see beautifully glassed-in displays, and I see dusty HLs exposed to any small child walking by. I see store associates handle HLs like they were fine crystal, and I see some clerks bang them together taking them in and out of a display. I've seen HLs displayed with major chips and ventilator balls knocked off and I've seen displays where the HLs look MIB even out of the box. I've seen stores that sell them for retail and other stores that discount them. I've seen 25% Off Stock Reduction sales and I've seen everything in the store 50% Off After Christmas Sales. I've seen stores that charge premium prices for retired pieces and stores that keep their retired pieces at retail. I've seen stores with 10% off deals when you buy $500 worth or even less at $250 worth. I've seen stores that if you buy an HL you will be entered in a drawing for an expensive retired HL.
Everyone has a little gimmick when it comes to selling something in their stores. If they get overstocked there is a good chance they will have a sale. If something isn't selling at retail, sooner or later the price will be reduced to move that product. Smart shoppers look for deals, more bang for their buck. Don't feel sad when you see a dealer possibly dropping the HL line, instead rejoice and buy everything you need at the reduced prices. 25% off allows you to buy four for the price of three, eight for the price of six, sixteen for the price of twelve. Be happy, you just got four HLs for free! (If you bought twelve).

Y&A has limited control of their product once it leaves their offices. Dealers will do whatever they have to do to make ends meet. I don't think HL Reps will be quick to sink a dealer if he doesn't play by the rules. If HLs don't work for a particular dealer and they want to drop the line, so be it. Take advantage of the deals to fill in your collection. HL is a high quality product that will be around for many years to come. How strong is my faith in the HL line? I've purchased close to 170 pieces since September of 97...need I say more?

Re: Sad sight #18860 01/12/99 03:39 AM
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Quote:
How strong is my faith in the HL line?
I've purchased close to 170 pieces since September of 97...need I say more?


Well, uh, since you asked, yes. :-) "Faith in the HL line" in what sense? That they'll always have an attractive product? That there will always be dealers? That you'll always enjoy your purchases even if they're worth 5 cents on the dollar? And what sort of event could shake this faith?

Rgds,
__
/im

Re: Sad sight #18861 01/12/99 12:14 PM
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Bob M Offline
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Hi Tim,
Since you asked........

I originally was only going to purchase HLs depicting LHs from my area. Then I shifted gears and decided to purchase those HLs that I really liked the looks of, especially HLs with red on them. For some reason I like the color red.

I got involved in checking the AOL Board (when it was good) on a daily basis. I also got involved in the AOL Chatrooms concerning not only HLs but also LHs. I listened, and I learned. My interest grew more and more.

The big push to buy those pieces I actually had no desire to own came when I attended the reunion in Providence. Meeting the Younger Family and the collectors I often chatted with on the Internet inspired me to strengthen my commitment to purchase one of every HL available within my budgetary limitations.

So from owning one HL in September of 1997, to owning about 165-170 HLs now is evidence indicating, at least to a reasonable and prudent person, that I have a strong commitment or belief in the Harbour Lights products.

Am I in it for the huge profit I could make if I sold my collection? Nothing can guarantee you a profit. These pieces are only worth what someone is willing to give you for them. Do I purchase multiples of each piece so I'll have some to sell down the line? No, I buy one of each. Do I leave my HLs in boxes so I can sell them as MIB? No, I display as many of them as I can, I enjoy them. Did I have any related costs to collecting HLs that weren't actual HL purchases? Yes, two curios that cost me around $2,600. Do I ever expect to make enough money on my collection to pay for the cost of the curios and the actual HLs? No, I don't think so.

If you total up what I've spent on HLs and the curios to display them, you would come up with an amount roughly around $14,000-$15,000. Then figure 9/97 to 1/99, 17 months.....I guess I've made a commitment.

Next question???

Re: Sad sight #18862 01/12/99 01:10 PM
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Todd Shorkey Offline
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Hey Bob, I have a question: Could you send some of that money my way? LOL

In regards to dealers discounting HL's, I have seen a local dealer drop the HL line, selling off inventory at a 50% discount. They then began selling CSC lighthouses, only to drop that line about 8 months later and sell off that inventory at 50% off.

I don't think it is unhealthy for the HL line. It is just a matter of economics for the dealers. If you are not making money on something, it is time to try something else. IMHO, I don't think this is a widespread issue. Some dealers just come and go.

In the interim, it is a bonus to HL collectors who purchase pieces at a sometimes substantial discount and add to their collections. Who knows, maybe someone who wouldn't have otherwise purchased a Harbour Light, will buy one because it is discounted and become hooked, buying more pieces at retail, thus causing more retirements, thus creating more wacko's, ect...

-Todd

Re: Sad sight #18863 01/12/99 02:18 PM
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rscroope Offline
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I agree Todd, this is a bonus for the lucky HL Collector. All you have to do is look at EBay to see how healthy the HL line is.
The HLs and their dealers are still effected by the simple laws of supply and demand. Not all stores in all areas can be successful. That's why so many are going to the Internet.


LONG ISLAND BOB
Re: Sad sight #18864 01/12/99 02:30 PM
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(I have since been correctly informed that this is a different store and that Rhodas has already dumped the last of their stock. This doesn't lessen the importance of the information. It just corrects my suspicion. It only serves to support the impact of the store's sale pricing their stock)

Gary0920

Without you stating the name of the store in FL, I can make an educated guess that it is Rhodas Collectibles. Please correct me if I am wrong. Rhodas and Harbor Lights have what lets call a "history". I know that Bill Younger had one of his first signings of the year last January at their store. Apparently things did not work out, because Rhodas was still discounting their HL lighthouses right after that. They were listing 10 items of each light was available at a percentage off at several sites on the Internet including their own. While this was going on Harbour Lights offered to buy back the stock at least on 2 occasions I am told. This might help some collectors find a bargain but it really hurts other dealers who abide by their contracts with Harbour Lights, which is to not sell below retail. Harbour Light dropped Rhodas as a dealer after they wouldn't quit reducing the price. I have a dealer that I buy HL lighthouses from very near that part of FL, her sales really slowed down when they began dumping the stock. I also have a friend who sells HL at his web site, he said his Internet sales almost stopped completely while this was going on. Every lighthouse that you buy at a bargain price actually has an effect on that particular lighthouses secondary price. If one is available for $50 instead of list of $80, then that is what the price starts at on the secondary market as it starts the climb up the long slow ladder. I try to tell other dealers, when I see someone dropping the line or more often what happens is the store just goes out of business, the other dealers can attempt to buy back their stock from the store selling off HL. It is a way of protecting their sales. Things are not always as they seem.

Paul


[This message has been edited by engbrady (edited 01-12-99).]


Onward to The Land of the Midnight Sun!
Re: Sad sight #18865 01/12/99 09:43 PM
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Harry R Offline
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Such as things are in any business. Its supply & demand, the specialty shop versus the discounted price. I guess this is the circle of life in the collectible world.

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Harry R

[This message has been edited by Harry R (edited 01-12-99).]


Harry R
Re: Sad sight #18866 01/13/99 02:50 AM
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Todd Shorkey Offline
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I agree with you Paul that selling at discounted prices, just for the purpose of selling at discounted prices, is wrong and is not good for the line, but if a store drops the line or for that matter goes out of business, that is a different matter.

I can't fault a business for making prudent decisions in the interest of making money. While Rhodas was IMO wrong for what they were doing, I would guess that most stores discount for more honorable reasons.

While these discounts may effect the secondary market in the short term, long term, I don't feel there would be a substantial decrease in the potential value of a piece due to its sale price. I may be way off on this, but I would need to see more proof of the opposite to change my opinion.

-Todd

Re: Sad sight #18867 01/16/99 01:16 AM
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Jake Offline
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Now, I've only seen discounts in my area on chipped pieces, but there is a store in a town nearby which has their display crammed with way too many lights. In the entire display, you may see three or four of the same light. Not to mention many of the ones with broken ventilator balls.
Once (before Christmas), there were boxes of Harley Davidson stuff in front of the display, and I didn't look down before I put my hands on one of the boxes, so not realizing, until after I touched it, that my finger was in the yard of a Cape Elizabeth practically in the middle of the aisle! Being the Addict-in-Training that I am, and having great respect, I moved it. But since there was no room on the shelf, I had to put it next to an Old Field Point on a slanted shelf like you see party plates put on (it's a Hallmark). I didn't like the situation still, but it was better. But they're not all bad, when they handle them, it's like they're "handling fine crystal," to quote another post. To tell the truth though, it seemed like their display was a lot more respected BEFORE I bought my Navesink. After that, the entire display was moved to its current location.
But I have bought from them many times, and I am happy with them.
Just thought I'd mention my experience.

Jake


Jakers
Re: Sad sight #18868 01/29/99 09:01 AM
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Robert M Dick Offline
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Gary,

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Did you start collecting HL for the profit of resale? That is a basic to this disease. I, like others, started with two Lighthouses I was familiar with, Bodie and Currituck. Bought them from Maine sight unseen until they arrived by UPS. That was 2 years ago. Then I fell in love with detail, size, workmanship, etc.

Value is important, but that is not why I collect. I collect HL because it is my window to the world of lighthouses, my way to visit each and every location and dream and imagine what life was like in the 1800s and early 1900s. I'll never see all those I have collected, but if they are as accurate as my Bodie Island model, I still have the opportunity to enjoy the past, a chance that only HL has given me.

My dealer and I do treat them as fine china. My son has even said, he's 23, this. "Dad, you finally started collecting something of real value."

Long term, the value should climb. In reality, climb or not, I am a realist, but not a dollars only kind of guy. My collection will be enjoyed no matter what others offer to pay for it. It is not for sale.

Bob of the Chesapeake Bay.

PS:

Dor-Donn Collectable in Gloucester, Va. has Drum Point at retail. Beautiful piece.


Moby
Re: Sad sight #18869 01/29/99 09:23 AM
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Bob---you couldn't have said it any better
ditto----"the lightkeeper"


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