I have run into two half price sales this year already. Also quite a few last year. about half were getting out of H.L. the rest cutting down to just regional.I have no trouble getting the lights I want but I was concerned about the trend. All this is withen 40 miles from where I live.Are we on the way out or what?

don

Don't think we're on the way out. I just think that the serious collectors and real lighthouse nuts are taking over as it was when HL first started into business. The people that were buying lighthouses because it was the "thing" to do and thought they could double-triple their investments are getting out. This is advantageous to the serious collectors as they may now find some of the pieces they want without paying an arm and a leg. As BY once said to me, never collect anything expecting to make a profit, always collect because you love it and if the profit happens then great. Those arn't his exact words but the meaning is there. Stores jumped on the lighthouse bandwagon and thought that they could profit from the lighthouse popularity without devoting time, inventory and space to displays. These are the ones that are getting out. This is only my opinion though, but, I will still collect as long as I can and HL remains the dedicated company they are.

Rich

Don,
I have two shops in my area that also are getting out. What they have left, (and it's not much) is also half price! Is this a trend around the country! I hope not! I know of another that is not going to carry any new pieces, but haven't marked down what they have left yet. I go there every once and a while to see if anything has moved - same pieces sitting in the same places for the past 6 to 7 months!

[This message has been edited by Randy Kremer (edited 01-17-2002).]

Are you worried because of your "investment" or happy because you can now improve your collection for less money.

I "purchase" for the fun of collecting and don't worry too much about the improving/declining values. Many shops are finding it hard to stock everything especially in a market that depends upon a persons "extra" money. Times are getting tougher now, and like the stock market, these depend upon supply and DEMAND. Demand is down, so if a shop can't make its "turns" on inventory, then one usually cuts the inventory.

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[This message has been edited by pharologst (edited 01-17-2002).]

I have noticed the same trend at the local dealers around me. I haven't been fortunate enough to find any half-off sales but I have noticed that the dealers aren't carrying the new releases. When I asked they told me they just don't sell fast enough to justify carrying a large inventory. They said maybe when they get rid of their current stock they will then get more.

I also noticed that the trend in my area Hallmark stores is to hide the HL's way in a back corner. Again when I asked I was told that this is store policy, high volume up-front, low-volume in back. My reply to them was minimal visibility = minimal sales!

Luckily for me my main dealer still have their HL's proudly displayed in a central location in clear view. They also continue to carry all the newest releases and say they have no intention to do otherwise now or in the future. Way to go Dorothy!!!

OK, my fingers are itching to type on the ole keyboard...

I believe we are in a new era folks!

HLs are WONDERFUL but as previous collectors have mentioned, stores that wanted to get on the band wagon years ago are now bailing due to inventory that is not "turning over" or making it out of their stock rooms. There is a definite trend going on here. I think 2002 is going to be a major "Shakedown" year for the collectible industry, more so then 2001.

Yup, I really think we are going back to the good ole days like it was in the beginning. "5500" Once this whole thing plays out and the excess inventory has been liquidated, I think there will be less HLs auctioned (dumped) on eBay, values will go back up, and the market will bounce back. In the mean time, we live in an era of 50% sales and dealers that are drying up! Of course there are 2 ways to look at this.....

We need to start a 50% thread and keep tally of where all these places are. I have read about 5 different places around the country already (and growing) as well as numerous stores in my own backyard.

As I commented earlier in another posts, metropolitan Washington DC is taking a beating as a large Hallmark chain, owning some 15-20 stores in Northern Virginia and Maryland are discontinuing there HLs except the LLOM. So, naturally, there are about 11 of those stores with 50% off sales. Trust me, I know, I have been to mostly all of them. I have seen so many lighthouse boxes I felt that I was at the Lighthuose Depot warehouse. This is a large dealer and now it went poof! I talked to B. Younger about this and its negative impacts that it may have and I can't help to not wonder if anything postive is going to come of this, meaning that the Hallmark owner will reconsider his recent decision and continue ordering the new pieces. Heck, his excess inventory is being turned into cash now, so I say, continue!

I like a sale just as much as the next collector, by I can't help to wonder how this may impact our precious hobby of collecting these GREAT lights from HL in the future.

OK enough said, Bill already knows how I feel about this issue......

Christopher
Potomac Falls, VA

Most everyone likes to find a deal every once in awhile. This is especially nice to a newcomer to HL collecting. He or she can get off to a good start by buying HL's at a discount, allowing them to add to their collections at a minimum expenditure. After all, most people intially get into the collecting hobby because they like it, not because they think they can resell and make a profit.

Our more senior collectors, those who have most every HL, will argue that it reduces the worth of their collections. I've built my collection by looking for deals when I could find them, and paying the premium price when I had to. It was definitely more fun to find them at deals than to pay the big bucks.

I feel that HL has listened to its collectors by reducing the number of each limited edition made. Now the retail stores must take measures to reduce their inventory of all those larger editions. When they are gone, the smaller editions will start to disappear more rapidly creating a demand, and that's the name of the game in collecting.

Now that I'm on autoship, I very rarely make the effort to go to HL Dealers to see what they have in stock. If I happen to be in a mall or near a store that sells HL's I usually take a peek to see what they have, but that doesn't happen that often.

Like stated in the above posts, many stores don't do elaborate displays. You either have to ask or search the entire store before you can find the HL section. If HL sales are slow and inventory stays on the shelves month after month, I can't blame the store for not giving them a prime spot.

As far as some stores dropping the HL line, stuff happens. Not every collectible store, across this nation of ours, is successful in selling HLs. The same applies to other collectible lines too. Why invest in something that doesn't sell fast enough to justify taking up shelf space. If inventory doesn't move, then it's hard to justify investing more money and dedicating shelf and storage space to that product.

My advice to fellow serious collectors is visit as many dealers as you can where ever you may be, always check the Marketplace at the CF each day, check the HL section on eBay daily, and be prepared to act fast if you see a deal.

Reduced edition sizes will create the necessary demand we all would like to see. There will always be a strong core of HL collectors. These are the diehards who will always be there through thick and thin. Collecting HL's is not a hobby. It's a way of life.

Bob

Half price? Where? If anyone knows of a dealer in my area (Southern NH) who is having a sale on HL please let me know.

My love of lighthouses and the quality of the HL pieces are the reasons I started collecting HL's. Whether they go up or down in value is not an issue.

No 50% off in this area that I know of. One store has 30% off, but they are closing the store, not because of HL's.

I'm glad to Harbour Lights listened to those of us who collect, because I feel very strongly it was in their best interest to reduce the edition size.

LOWER NUMBERS = MORE DEMAND

Bert

No GLOWS = MORE DEMAND

There are several reasons why this is happening.

One is as I have stated before, that the more popular lighthouses have already been produced. The newer LE's are the less popular ones and therefore the market to buy them is much smaller.(thus the need for smaller editions "5500") For most gift shops this means that probably only regular Harbour Lights customers will purchase them. Not enough traffic to give much shelf space.
(thus the need for GLOWS and LLOM, so dealers can have some of the more popular lights available) Without these I believe there would be even more dealers dropping the HL line.

Another reason is that the "Lighthouse" market in general is saturated. Every you look there is some kind of lighthouse product for sale. At any given time on EBAY there are over 5000 lighthouse items for sale.I believe that this also has taken away from the Harbour Lights market because people are purchasing other products instead of Harbour Lights.

Could the future of Harbour Lights be mail order from places like the Lighthouse Depot and the Bronze Lady and perhaps Harbour Lights themselves ??

The Lightkeeper
Mike

Nope, I don't believe that Harbour Lights could turn enough product as a mail order only operation. Harbour Lights Customer are the Dealers. They make their money off of the Dealers. They don't have time to wait for the consumer to buy at will. The key for Harbour Lights was to stay at the magical number to not saturate the market. That being a number low enough to provide all their dealers with enough inventory of a particular lighthouse to last on the shelves no more than just a year or two, imho.

I joked about this before, but perhaps the different Collectible Rep. Companies need to be put on a Regional System. E.g. If your a Collectibles Rep. from the Southeast then you would get a larger percentage of new releases from the Southeast versus a Rep. in the Northwest. The key here would be to release a lighthouse every year from perhaps these regions, New England, Mid-Atlantic, Southeast, Gulf Coast, Great Lakes, Southwest, Northwest. This would insure inventory available to each Rep. and provide a popular regional lighthouse in proportionate availability to the Dealers that will sell.

Only Harbour Lights knows their market, production and distribution well enough to know what might work. To me sending 25 Middle Bay Lighthouses to a dealer in Seattle is not going to be as successful for that dealer as it would be sending more to the dealer in the Gulf States.

imho, just something to consider

Mike,
I have to agree with a lot of what you have to say. The popular ones are already made and many people are only interested in buying them. I know for a fact that many people buy only the lights that they have visited. If the light is on a remote island and they can't get to it, they probably won't buy it! I was in a store when Sanibel first came out and noticed a man was buying one. He told me they vacation on Sanibel Island and this was a great item to buy to remember their vacations. He also told me he wasn't into lighthouses, just the place this one was located. Location means a lot to many people, which gets back to the popular pieces and tourist locations. I think future pieces might reflect this. There still are a few popular pieces (California, for example) with popular tourist locations left for Harbour Lights to produce. We will see what happens in the future!

While I am new to this collectable thing in general, I buy HL because I like them and the stories behind the lighthouses. The lighthouse has a very rich history in our nation and the world. This is one of the things that I like about HL versus other "collectable". I think it is amazing that someone would pay $3,000 for a lighthouse. Even with this much for a lighthouse I have more secure ways to invest my money than take a chance one HL might go up in price. I would think that this area, collectables as a whole, would be the first to take a hit with so many losing their jobs. That could be the reason stores are reducing inventory. The 50% sales could be a short term step till things get better. Someone thinking about where their next house payment is coming from might find a way to trim their HL collection for something more essential. Of course I am always looking for a nice deal that will fill out my collection. But, I wouldn't like to take advantage of someone's misfortune just to fill out my HL collection.

Chuck

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bigdragon

No 50% sales here at least not that I know of(but then I haven't been out much lately). But I would look farward to finding a few missing pieces in my collection at a good price.

Although I would hate to see the value of what I have go down too drasticly! You see my collection is an investment in a way. I buy them because I like them. And I have told my children that my HL collection is thier inharitance. I have spent all my savings on HL's and will continue to do so. And when I am dead and gone it will be up to them to sale my collection for thier inharitance money. I feel that my collection is money in the bank. Oh sure I could have bought stock instead. Maybe it would have been Enron and you know what happened to them. So all in all I still fell good about my investment!

Stephanie

I have seen some 50% sales in New England and in Florida recently. I was interested to read all your thoughts about the reasons. I think that market saturation was experienced at the 10,000 level too and I am pleased to see HL backup from this volume. I regard HL as an investment. However, I recognize that it could turn to smoke tomorrow and I would be left with .... magnificant replicas of a lost treasure.

This rationale for GLOWS and LLOM makes sense if you believe HL needs to sell something other than collectibles on a national distribution level in order to be a viable company. That is, if you believe their selling giftware is financially necessary to allow them to sell Collectibles. I happen to believe HL could make it as a Collectible manufacturer alone - maybe they wouldn't be as large as company, or in as many malls, but so what.

Based on discussions with the dealers in my area, its GLOWs that put the drag on their cash flow. These dealers have 'gift shops' but their audience tends to be Collectors, not people looking for knick-knacks.

Sure the GLOWS might sell at gift shops near their actual lights, but so what. Over all, they've hurt demand because they dilute exclusivity. eBay is clogged with GLOWS - there are lots of them for sale at a discount because the supply far exceeds the demand. I suspect the situation at most dealer shops is no different.

__
/im

I'd like to repeat Linda Ann's post "Half price where?" there sure is a lot of discussion of 50% off sales but no names or phone numbers for those of us who have a lot of holes in our collections. There are a lot of great insights as to why. And I agree with most of what I have read but I still haven't read where. Anyone willing to let the rest of us in on your secret half price sales?

Dale

I'm not much in favor of publicizing WHICH stores are having Harbour Lights sales.



[*] We'd be driving business away from good dealers, well-managed ones that are not going bankrupt and who are honoring their contact with Harbour Lights regarding discounting.


[*] You are taking dollars away from these successful dealers and giving them to a dealer who will not be around in a month, or a week.


[*] You have no recourse if the product you receive is dinged, chipped, faded or not correct in some way.

If you want to know which dealers are discounting, email someone who has posted this fact -- please don't post it here.

Found a 40% off sale yesterday and picked up Sankaty #56 for $42. WOW!! Another store that's going out of business in eastern Mass. What's happening? Forgot to mention this is post #200 for me. Another milestone that took years to accomplish!

Bert



[This message has been edited by MtnHkr (edited 01-23-2002).]

I believe that collectors will come and go and that advertising is key in keeping the line going. It always make me wonder why I never see a Harbour Lights piece in any of the collectible catalogs or brochures I recieve in the mail from the local stores. The brochures are loaded with Charming Tails, Swarovski, the miniature shoes, Hummel, etc., but never one HL. I received two different brochures over the holidays for Christmas pieces and neither showed the HL's piece.

QVC had a 36 hour marathon of collectibles and no Harbour Lights.

We need to attract new collectors in order to keep the lines moving in the stores.

Joanne

No QVC for the Limited Editions please! Giftware such as GLOWS, Open Editions and LLOMS are perfect for QVC. The SOL GLOW could be the first!

You make a good point for the dealers that will still be here when everything shakes out John. But the fact is these 50% off sales are out there and their impact will be the same weather I buy or someone else does. There are some lights that I will not pay retail for because they are not on my list or I have not seen the real one yet.It is very unrealistic for me to have a "complete set" of LE's so I have to pick ones I have seen or will likely see soon.

For me it will not make any difference on what I buy from my local dealer. I am looking for specific LE's that he doesn't have. I have been watching the Marketplace and e-bay and have picked up a few there that I needed. All well below retail. I picked up a Bolivar LE for $35 that way. That was one that I may visit this summer but is not on my list. If it was retail or even 20% off I would not have bought it.
It probably is unlikely that I will find what I am looking for at these sales because the good ones are already gone by the time I hear about it.

Your suggestion to e-mail the person posting is a good idea. I just wasn't sure they wanted a bunch of e-mails about this.

I am sure Harbour Lights is not real thrilled to hear of these sales. And I understand not posting a list of stores here, especially since this is linked to the Harbour Lights site. But I don't see a problem with someone mentioning that will give the information to interested parties through an e-mail.

Another thing to consider, the sooner these half priced pieces are bougth up, the sooner things will get back to normal, if there ever will be a normal market again.

Dale

I think you may have missed the point of John's post, Dale. He doesn't want to see it posted here in the forums. It is easy for me to respect John's wishes on this matter since I agree with him and in fact I probably even feel stronger about how much discounting hurts Harbour Lights sales and collecting in general.

Since I have administrator powers and at least until John (who happens to be footing the bill for the forums existence) takes them away from me, I will remove any posting of a dealer name that is discounting their Harbour Lights Lighthouses in the Forums.

I have never bought a discounted Harbour Lights lighthouse from a dealer and I won't in the future.

There are very few ground rules here in the forums but not supporting discounting dealers has been one of them from the start.

Paul L Brady

[QUOTE]Originally posted by engbrady:
[B]I think you may have missed the point of John's post, Dale.

Paul, you need to re-read my post. I said "I understand not posting a list of stores here"

Dale

My original post was not an attempt to list or support half price sales or dealers. I wanted a imput from collectors and I got alot.
thanks don

No problem Don. We are all just one big happy family here and I for one understand your intentions. I have listed 50% off savings here in the past myself. It's just part of Retail, some stores make it, some do not, stores failing should not be a reflection on the popularity of Harbour Lights.

The topic continues in The Fog Signal Building forum.....
http://www.lighthousekeepers.com/forums/Forum17/HTML/000148.html

oh sure ... send me the problem :-)