Let's try to figure this one out!!!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3267894199&category=11132

Do you suppose the seller knows what they have? I'm guessing that Bill must not have kept the first 10 when HL first started?

Number 7 on 102 Mold II ? I thought the first production serial numbers on mold II picked up where Mold I left off? Perhaps not. Then maybe this is a replacement for a broken Mold I serial number 7, but then if HL did keep the first 10 at that time the replacement numbering theory is more than likely not correct either.

Could this be a possible 7th proof molding of the second mold.Made in California rather than Canada or Malaysia.Note the gray felt/flocking which is attributed mostly to California production pieces if memory serves correct?or was it green? I can not remember.Also no box. I wonder if this piece ever came with a "standard" original box-brown, white, or blue?

Could it also be that the number has in part faded,been damaged or tampered with in some way?

Hmmmm..... A mystery!

BEWARE! The "7" may possible be a forgery. I just looked at my HL102R which just happens to have two 7's in the four-digit flag#. I also looked at some of my earlier pieces to see what the 7's looked like. You know what? None of my 7's look like the 7 on the piece being offered.

All my 7's are written in two strokes of a pen, one horizontal line and one vertical line. The picture of the piece on auction shows a vertical line, horizontal line, then the longer vertical line.

My guess is the flag# made have faded away and someone may have inserted their own lucky number. It may not have been the seller but someone did it. If you weren't a connected collector with access to all the information available here at the CF, you might think that piece was actually flag# 7. I might be wrong, but there are too many things pointing to this piece not being a true and accurate representation of what it is suppose to be.

Any other theories out there?

Bob

I totally agree with Bob
This is a forgery. My Hatteras also has a seven and it looks nothing like this one.
Also if you look closely at the number it looks like there is ink rub mark to the left and the right.
The fact that it has a gray felt would put its number range somewhere between 2000 and 2200.

I would agree with Bob and Daniel also. I don't have a 7 in my serial number, but, my number is 2163 and has gray felt with a small border around the bottom that has no felt at all. This piece also has a 7 like no other 7 that I've ever seen. Also it appears like the original serial number has been taken off because of the shiney appearance of the area. I also know that the serial number 7 is too bright and distinct. My 2163 is not as distinguishable as the 7 and never has been since I got it in 1994. Buyer beware!

I also agree with the group! I have never seen a 7 written in that style on any HL piece before. The other point is that I am pretty sure the first # of the revised Hatteras started at #267.
Still, it is a Hatteras and a gray felt at that. I just hope someone doesn't go nuts thinking they are getting that special #.

I have a similar version of Mold 2 - gray felt, similar sticker - my 'price sticker' which is on top of the bottom sticker is similar in size and position (the one for sale has been removed, but you can see where it was.) Mine also has a round "Made in Canada" sticker.

One of our members has bid on it and the reserve has been met so for $100, I'd buy it -- but won't bid on it.

My serial number has faded away into nothingness, but the paint is similar to the one for sale.

If you were going to 'forge' a serial number, I would think you'd do a better job of matching. That's not to say I think it's a forgery.

The seller is inviting questions. If I were a bidder, I'd ask how long he's owned it and where and when he or she bought it.

Caveat Emptor as always.

Is it typical for the unit# to be so far in location from the / ? In this case, it's high above and to the far left.

At any rate, w/ six days to go on the auction, and people already bidding( At $127 a minute ago), the price is going to rise to what we know as typical.

This, by the way, is the type of discussion that makes this board so valuable to the collector.
I saw this item go up yesterday, and right away, alarms went off, but I knew I'd find a discussion here.

Thanks!!

Judy

I guess I will put in a bid."who knows". Any one making any predictions on this one?

I'm predicting that it will go in the range of $700-$800 because of the low serial number. I just hope whoever buys it will not be disappointed when they discover it might not be all it's trumped up to be. The secondary market price for a 102R is $670 according to my 2003 market guide.

Perhaps this CH2 was one of the test pieces. I've learned that Harbour Lights was trying to automate the numbering and tracking of limited editions and tried out several possibilities including the use of machine-readable calligraphy.

A source close to Y&A (who wishes to remain anonymous) dug this photo out of the archives of one of the test pieces:



The problem was in order to read and track the numbers, the flags had to be read by equipment only available to the banking industry so the project was abandoned early when the company got complaints from Bank of America that the pieces were clogging up their check sorters.

It's not widely known that this was the primary reason for the breakage of so many of the early Cape Hatteras sculptures.

It's unfortunate because quite a bit was invested in teaching the Canadians how to hand-letter these OCR characters so perfectly that they could actually be machine-read.

My source says they were not aware that ANY of the second sculpture versions got numbered in this way.

Is it 4/1 already?

Bob

Pulled in hook, line, and sinker!! Haven't laughed this hard in months!! Thanks, John.
Sandy
P.S. My husband is retired from the post office and repaired their OCRs in Hartford.

WOW, John. what a revelation..... HEE HEE

And of course, they don't have the box or C.O.A to back up the number....

Mike

SOMEBODY thinks it's a real deal - bid's up to $510.00! But that number 7 sure looks funky!

I asked HL to authenticate this #7 Revised HL102 and was told today that it was a fake.

The Revised HL102 numbering was started at 266 or 267 and there were no 1 or 2 digit pieces issued. Bill so stated today.

Anyone want to contact ebay? Or the seller? I don't have an ebay account so I can't do that.

I noticed tonight that two more 102R pieces have hit e-bay. Serial 5231 with rod and Serial 5494 without rod and with a chip

Apart from all the discussion regarding the flag number on this piece there also appears to be a large chip from the top edge of the base at the rear of the tower.Supersize the second photo in the gallery of photos to the right of the main picture and look at the top edge of the base to the right of the tower. I think there is a large chip.Perhaps it could just be a shadow.Can anyone else compare or give some "light" on this?

My Cape Hat is 1058 and has green felt. If I got rid of the 058 it would be a #1 white-out anyone?

Chuck

Chuck,

Then you could put it on Ebay and get at least 7 times the current bid amount... LOL

Don't you just hate to see these rare and extremely valuable HL's showing up on eBay looking like the owner's dog used it as a toy.

On the other hand, I guess that type of reckless care of a valuable collectible will only lead to an increase in value of those that are in mint condition with the original box.

Makes you wonder how many mint condition HL102's are still in existence.

Bob

Harbour Lights Cape Hatteras #102- 7/5500 went for $510

I wonder what type of feedback will be exchanged
on this auction?

You’re correct, Lonnie. It would be interesting to find out what happens between the buyer and the seller. But then again, the entire transaction may have been the result of ignorance on both sides of the fence. The buyer probably doesn’t have a clue about the FORUM and what it can provide. The seller on the other hand may not have even realized that the piece was a blatant forgery. Would any of us have posted the mutated Flag with such clarity? I doubt it.

Bob Ott

You can always check the feedback left for both the seller and the buyer on ebay- unless they make their whole history private.

I would never buy or sell to anyone who'd feedback was private, though.

You have to say one thing- the seller was as upfront with information as you should be. I would have in the past sent an e-mail to the buyer or the seller about the questions that were raised, but I've learned all that does is cause you problems. I've tried to help both buyers and sellers get things right, but just gotten grief too many times.

If I had been interested in bidding I would have pointed out the ideas brought up here and asked for clarification.

This may turn out to be a very expensive lesson for both of them.

Dennis

I was about $200 off on my predicted selling price, but who knows, it may have gone higher is someone had not been reading these Forums. John authenicated that it was a fake on the 23rd and the bidding never advanced after it hit $510 on the 20th. Usually last minute bids take the selling price up. The last minute bidders may have read the Forums. I just wonder if the bidder is not from Jacksonville, FL. JAX is the accepted nickname for Jacksonville and his email is jaxbeacon.

hey y'all, i am the one who purchased the hatteras light! i am upset with myself that i didn't pick up on the number! especially mold II
starting at #266. anyway, need as much advice and friendly chat as possible right now! i'll let you all know what happens when i recieve it in the mail!

Welcome Russ - glad you joined us. You'll find we're full of ideas, facts, and opinions so any questions, just ask.

We'll be interested in hearing more about your #7 CH2 piece when it arrives.

I sent a photo of the flag to Kim Andrews at her request and she commented that the way that 7 was made was unlike anything she remembered (or words to that effect.)

But the price wasn't bad -- no matter the number.

Is that 'Jax' part of your name because you are from Jacksonville? Will you be attending the St. Augustine Lighthouse Festival and HL Regional there coming up in March?

Hi Russ
I agree with John
The price was good.
The Gray felt shows that it was made in Canada and as I said before the number would probably be between 2000 and 2200.
Usually Canadian made runs a little higher on the market. I don't see where a forged number would be any less valuable than not having a number at all.

I have been following this posting with interest, and here are my thoughts. I am pretty sure that this pieces is a true HL that was made in Canada. Although I'm pretty sure it is not a real number 7, it may be a renumber of a broken piece, or it may not. I have heard that sometimes when a piece is broken and you send in the flag HL will reissue a piece with the same number, and if the production has changed it could account for the low number on a mold 2. Even though the number is different in style than any other that I have seen, I have also found that the styles of numbers has changed over the years, and even on the same piece at different production stages. I could also account for the numnber being different by someone that had a number that had faded partially, or completly, out taking the initative to make their piece better by giving it a low number. Another option is this could be one of the unnumbered artists proofs that someone took a liberty with. The part that I can't justify is that the number falls in the range of the first 10 that are held by the Youngers, and I've never seen one of these, so they may be numbered differently. The closest I have see is a #16. Bottom line, the piece is for real, and the price is well below the market for just a few years ago. In fact if this piece was truely numbered by HL then this may be a exceptional buy. Russ if you are unsure about this piece I will be glad to trade my verified #2850 mold two, which I paid a higher price, for this piece, just to releive your doubts about it's authenticity. No matter what you have made a good deal and the important point is that you enjoy it and feel it was a good purchase for you.

thanks guys! as i was reading through these posts just before i recieved the piece, i was becoming, well, quite dismayed! those of you that followed up with a reply have stated essentially how i feel about this purchase! with the possitive outlook, im hoping the number is one of the many reasons d.j. metioned. and on the negitive, it is hard to believe the seven is athentic! especially, that it looks like there was a "4" smugged, rubbed, or fadded out to the lower left of the number! as dan said, if you look close at the picture on ebay, you can even see it there! oh by the way ive received the light! being the teacher that i am, your not going to believe this; i brought a microscope home to give a closer look! it revealed nothing!
did see a lot of grit though. anyway, i will be in st augustine come march! can't wait to hear what bill surmises!??? do you think he's recieved wind of this? oh yes, i did contact a questioned the seller about this, and the history of the piece before him. his response was encouraging! but, never responded about the history????

Russ
In my seven years of collecting HL, I learned that there is one thing you can be sure of when it is concerning the early harbour lights and that there is almost nothing you can be sure of. HL didn’t keep records of the early production.
So I suppose anything is possible.

I too believe it is a forge number, but if I was you I would just call it a number seven and don’t know any different.