While these errors may not be intentional, they certainly back up the "Caveat Emptor" warning


[*]"Collectors Society Pin" http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=285869327
Not - it's a Harbour Lights trade show button from 1995


[*]"Very Low Flag Number" http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=288397115
Not - it's 2887/4000 (Panama Set) Come-on a VERY low flag number should be 2 digits. A "Low" flag number should be 3 digits. This one is almost 3-4ths of the way through the run.


[*]Rose Island 2nd ReUnion Piece http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=287938314
Not - it's the Society version. Although the product number is correct at HL616, there's no reference to the two versions.


[*]Harbour Lights Price Guide NEW!!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=288138317
Not - it's advertised as the 1999 edition of the Greenbook. But it was issued in 1998. There was no revised book for 1999.


[*]Harbour Lights Alcatraz Retired #407 RARE http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290727191
Description calls it "Seldom seen markings as this is the ultimate rarity of the Alcatraz issue . It has a label on both the box and lighthouse saying Lighthouses of the world and nos. 407, yet it is the same as # 177 limited issue"
NOT - lots of pieces were issued as GLOWs before being changed to Limited.


[*]Another 'Very Rare' Alcatraz http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290714510
NOT - "RARE with an 'A 'number ed.#A4489" I mean this one is 4489 - there's a pretty good chance there are at least 4,488 more.


[*]Harbour Lights American Shoal -Fla. (RARE) http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=291471651
"DEALERS CAN'T ORDER IT --IF THEY HAVE IT IT'S ALREADY PROMISED TO SOMEONE" How can the seller know that? Have they talked to every dealer? and "THE FLAG NUMBER IN THE PICTURE IS FROM MY OWN COLLECTION AND IS NOT FOR SALE" No, actually the picture is a scan of the brochure showing the piece.



[This message has been edited by JChidester (edited 03-26-2000).]

Saint John,
Again, we the lowley masses of the great forums owe you a great deal of thanks! I've only been collecting for nearly a year now, but it is sad to see some people pull some of this stuff on the unsuspecting masses. The unfortunate part is that there are some new people out there that are not aware and they will pay the higher price on something that has been clearly misrepresented. One of the reasons that my first stop for purchases on the internet is the Marketplace. Thanks again ,and keep us informed.

I wish more people knew about the HL website.
As an up to date source of info it is a great tool for the collector.

A special thanks to HL, John C.,the saints, and cruise directors who work hard to keep us posted up to date with pictures and info.

WOW... what a band ..... John and the saints with special guests the cruise directors.

John C. - Again you have provided the HL collector with some very valuable information. I know that your dedication to this forum, is truly a labor of love for our hobby. Thanks again for your efforts and dedication to the forum.

Mike H.

Hey John, ....do you ever sleep? You are unbelievable! Keep up the good work!

Bob

Yep, kinda like a throwback to the old medicine shows. Selling snake oil lives again in the brave new frontier of e-commerce. It's a shame. Be careful, folks. Thanks for bringing these up John.

------------------
-Art

I wasn't fishing for praise - although it's always appreciated. I was trying to point out that as an ebay bidder/buyer, you've got to educate yourself to know exactly what the seller is selling -- independently of what they say it is.

And you're in the proper place to be educated. Just ask.

I try when possible to get those that bid on items (that I'm aware of that) that have misleading info or that the bid goes way too high on, the information that they need. I try and balance things by waiting until the bidding is over so as to not inflame the individuals doing the misleading. Sometimes if you get burned once and are shown it you are more cautious in the future. you also can get flamd by the person you are trying to assist. Dennis

I heard yesterday from two of the individuals whose posts I used as examples.

One stated that the terms "pins/buttons" were interchangeable and the photos showed exactly what they were. Correct. The button does say "1995 Harbour Lights Collectors Society" as that was what was being promoted at the trade shows in 1995.

Another apologized for the wording used in the American Shoal ad - they had used a previous ebay ad they ran for Hillsboro and should have changed the wording.

I want to state it was not my intention to state that these individuals were (intentionally or unintentionally) doing something to mislead a potential bidder.

My purpose was to illustrate how those new to collecting Harbour Lights need to educate themselves and learn the details to be certain they are bidding on what they really think they are buying.

The #2 example above (the Panama set) also states that since HL is going worldwide, the 4000 Panama sets are being "shared by the world" now, making them very rare...

That is also an incorrect pitch. Panama sets are only sold at HL dealers, not worldwide.

Being the person at the helm of Retired@Retail for the past year, I've answered many questions for collectors that stem from some of the decisions that Harbour Lights has made. In particular, there is much confusion from the decision to change the first GLOWs to Limited Editions. Alcatraz is one of those pieces.

More than any other thing that HLs has done, changing that horse in mid-stream has created the most confusion among collectors. I know that there are a number of people on the Forums who know the story and will share it with new collectors. But remember, the new collector has to know to ask the question before they can get an answer. The events were long ago. Maybe we need a refresher page at the HL site to let new collectors know the history of these pieces.

What John, Rod and the others have said in this thread is all important and true. It's crucial that collectors educate themselves 'before' venturing into the secondary market world. I'd like to add that the advice is good for both buyers and sellers.

Rick

These are good tips for new collectors, John that the more educated take for granted. Thanks to all for the info on these Forums in the past as well as now and the future.
Bob

Re: The change of pieces in 1995-96 from "Great Lighthouses of the World" Open Editions to Limited Editions:
www.HarbourLights.com/modifications/pages/open2limited.htm

This affected 3 items from the 1995 Great Lakes Stamp Set and four others:


[*]182 Spectacle Reef MI (formerly 410)

[*]183 St. Joseph North Pier MI (formerly 411)

[*]184 Thirty Mile Point NY (formerly 414)

[*]175 Cape Lookout NC (formerly 405)

[*]176 Fire Island NY (formerly 406)

[*]177 Alcatraz CA (formerly 407)

[*]178 Mukilteo WA (formerly 417)

Two others were in production and the flags do not reflect an edition size:

[*]HL168 Cape May NJ

[*]HL169 Peggy's Cove NS

The edition size on all 9 pieces was to be 9,500. However Peggy's Cove retired early with 8,659 and Mukilteo had 5,900 produced before being retired on 12/31/99.

The decision to switch these 9 items has been confusing, but it was one of those benchmark decisions by Harbour Lights that demonstrated their committment to collectors and to limited editions which ultimately strengthened the line, in my opinion. (An opinion that pre-dates my webmaster status.)

I personally wanted to take this time and thank John Chidester (cruise director extradinare) as well as the others here who have put much effort and time in obtaining facts for the collectors. I have read many of your posts and have learned a lot from you. John... I appreciate the way you host the HL chat room as well. Thanks again. Your efforts are appreciated.

[This message has been edited by Tim (edited 04-14-2000).]

Sorry John... through my confusion I said "cruise director extraordinare" when I should have said "Saint". Thanks again!

Although they had prior (and worthy) incarnations, I just can't bring myself to think of the Great Lakes Series Marblehead (now 413) and Split Rock (412) as g-g-g-GLOWS. Just to look at them they seem to be caught out of time - between the regal old world panache of the 5500 series and the spunky flourescent glitz of the OEs that would be.

Kinda like an amphibian evolving backwards.

Rgds,
Saint Salamander

Since we're getting more "You've got to be kidding..." posts about misleading descriptions on ebay, I thought I'd surface this old thread for the education and edification (what's that?) of those who've joined the forums more recently.

Not meaning to put anyone down about their posts -- just trying to point out the kinds of 'caveat equipment' you'll need to be armed with when you wade into the ebay.

J. Cousteau

P.S. Those old ebay links don't work any more.

[This message has been edited by JChidester (edited 07-26-2000).]

Thanks for the information John, it will be useful to the new collectors out there. Many of the sellers on ebay do not have actual knowledge of HL's but sell a range of different lines that by one means or another, they have access to. It's possible that someone unintentionally has misleading or incorrect information. It is imperative that if a person sees an item they are interested in placing a bid for that they do their research first and not wait until the last minute to bid. I learned early on, before I developed my knowledge of HL's, that if it's towards the end of an auction -- of what is claimed to be an unusual find and there are no bidders -- they know something that I don't know. These auctions are like buses, if you miss this one, the next one will be along in a few minutes, so don't get lost in a bidding frenzy.

Joanne

Saint John,
We all appreciate your input, and this is a great topic. As I was reading your original post on the subject, I was laughing at first but then I had to realize that if I had not had the blessing to be checking these forums early in my collecting that, intentional or unitentional ebay statements may have had me bidding on some at higher than usual prices. The forums I'm sure have saved many of us. Thanks for the time and money saved, and for the pure pleasure of talking about these wonderful lighthouses!

Rusty