I searched for "Harbour Lights" and found that in the first 50 messages - those closest to closing - 36 had no bids.

And of the 14 that did, there were only 45 bids total.

Looking for an Ocracoke, the only one is one that went through bidding (closed now) and didn't reach minimum - got up to $258, I t hink it was. This is a piece that should sell for $350-$400 and can scarcely be found anywhere.

Anybody know why?

Hi -

I know that I had been having problems accessing the eBay site in late Aug and early Sept. I could get to the site, but any searches for item or seller never produced any results - either there was no response or an error of database not available appeared. I sent 6 e-mails from Thurs. to Monday one weekend and received no response from eBay people. Some features such as 'personal shopper', which gave me notice of new items for sale, no longer work
and eBay will not resond to my questions as to why it is no longer available. I have quit using eBay as much as I did earlier this year and only look for items a couple of times a month now instead of once or twice a week.

One person's reasons for not using eBay.
Jim

(Most of my HL purchases will now be from the marketplace forum, retired@retail or searching local dealers.)

As a secondary dealer, I can tell you what is going on on EBay. In most cases items not reaching the reserve are still sold. Bidders contact sellers after auction and ask the reserve and in most cases, buy the piece.I happen to have advertised the Ocracoke mentioned and did sell at exactly my reserve.
Don www.donslighthouses.com

------------------

Ebay is an unusual place. I seen listings for the same light, eg. Sanibel, right next to each other and go for prices that are $30.00 to $40.00 dollars apart. I still don't get that! There's a Hilton Head (Canada) on there now who's last price was $150.00 and down the list alittle further, is another one for $400.00 plus, does the box make that much difference to people?

Thanks,

Tony

Would I spend $10 more to get a HL with the box instead of without a box, maybe. Would I spend $200 more, absolutely not.

Anybody want to buy a $200 box? Have I got a deal for you. I have a closet full.

Joanne

I like eBay and do a considerable amount of dealing there on various items. I avoid bidding on items that start too high in price, seller had negative feedbacks, or an item that has excessively high shipping charges.

I like bidding on items with no reserve, low starting bid, and a fair shipping cost. Check these items out and you will notice a lot more bids, and in some cases a higher last bid than those items that start too high.

IMO, starting an item at a bid that is equivalent to its actual worth is no more that selling the item for a fixed price instead of an auction.

That's the word from the East Coast where it's 60 degrees and sunny!

Bob

Thanks, Don - that explains a lot - how about others? Have you bought or sold after the auction ends on pieces that got no bids or did't reach reserve?

I have made a number of transactions on Ebay and have been satisfied with the results for the most part. I have noticed that a good number of pieces posted are from retailers selling non-retired HL's at only a little below retail. (Add shipping and you might as well buy from your trusted local dealer!). Many sellers also do not indicated the Edtion # of the piece or other specifics (ie. country of orgin, rod/no rod etc.) and many potential buyers will not bid on these items. (If your not sure what you are going to get, DON'T BID! ). I don't feel that I should have to E-mail each seller of each auction to find out edition #'s. I will just wait on another auction that supplies all the information so that I can make an informed decision.

I have done that many times, Lighthouses...both on the buying and selling end of the auction. Mostly with hard-to-find laser discs, compact discs, and lighthouse postcards, but I have also bought 3 HL's and 1 AB that way.

---

Rod Watson
_{[This message has been edited by Rod Watson (edited 09-25-99).]}

I agree with Bob's comments earlier. The bloom is a bit off the rose. I was enamored with ebay originally and didn't mind e-mailing sellers for information on edition numbers, paperwork, and reserves. Maybe I've just gotten lazy in my approach to the auctions, but I also tend to bid now on items with lower initial bids and no reserves. I really don't want to go through an auction cycle only to find that my winning bid didn't meet an unknown reserve.

Ebay is still my favorite place to buy HL's. I do use a few local dealers just to keep my name in good standing with them for signings and special orders.

When you factor in 7% tax, that usually comes close to the shipping charge. So, if a seller auctioning a newer piece anywhere from 15% to 25% lower than retail and I can get it for that, I'm going to bid. It is a savings of at least $15 to me. If I can use a credit card, I'm probably be prone to bid a little higher than intended. As far as edition numbers, it has no importance to me. I personally wouldn't spend any extra money to get a lower number. That's just me, I know it is very important to some collectors.

Joanne

There have been some great deals available on ebay lately. The overall HL market on ebay seems to have been soft lately, Navesinks at 150, sounds good to me. I attribute a lot of it to vacation season just being over, school starting, and college tutition for some parents a factor all cutting into the extra cash fund. I think you will see the prices and bids go back up in the next couple of months, meanwhile it is a great time to buy,

I agree, it is a great time to buy on ebay. I have purchased three lighthouses on ebay, and they were almost 50% off retail and were in MIB condition. But it does seem that the prices are coming up now.

Rusty

Things have been quiet in this thread for almost a week now. Time to bring it back to the top!

Ebay went from having almost a record amount of HLs on auction to having a very low amount in the last week or so. It appears numerous dealers are attempting to reduce their inventory. Lot of the HLs were on auction for the seven day period with "0" bids. People should take a chance and start a little lower on the minimum bid if they want to see some movement on their pieces.

I notice there aren't very many auctions involving Anchor Bay. Hmmm!...interesting.

Bob

Any one notice the Morris Island set that didn't sell for 98.00, or the Thomas Point #181 at retail, 99.00, no bids. Makes you want to say Hmm

A couple of observations on my part:

A few sellers keep putting the same pieces out there for auction but reserve is set too high so no activity on those pieces. I don't bother bidding on certain sellers.

Stock market has been down for three weeks now. My sense of net worth is diminished so I am more selective on my purchases and not so free-spending.

Holidays are around the corner and I'm starting to buy gifts for the family.

These are just a few maybes for lower action on ebay.

Joanne

Another possibility is with all of the new lighthouses that have come out recently there isn't any extra money to bid. Plus with a lot of the pieces being the same, a lot of potential bidders have a lot of what is being listed.

Some people seem to worry when there are several listed and others seem to worry when there aren't many listed. When I see a couple auctions of a particular lighthouse for sale, rather than think everybody is selling their collection, I remind myself there are 4,498 of the 5500 of that particular lighthouse that aren't posted on eBay for sale.

I do believe that the dealers who have dumped a lot of stock on eBay, while still making a little money on their pieces, have created a bargain hunter mentality and a major effect on the secondary prices. I have always felt that while a bargain price on a lighthouse brings down the cost for the buyer, it also brings down the perceived worth or secondary price of the lighthouse they just purchased.

I believe the secondary prices of a lot of HL lighthouses were probably higher than they should have been a couple of years ago, while some are now a little lower than they should be.

SaintWackoPaul '
Keep the Flame


[This message has been edited by engbrady (edited 10-13-99).]

That makes sense to me, Paul. I'll admit that I'm a bargain hunter. Especially, as I try to purchase the last few pieces to complete my collection.

Bob

Your right Bob, the number of HL available on E-Bay dropped considerably. Being a new collector I am watching it pretty close to find some of the specific/retired ones that I am looking for. It had been as high as 260 items on the block but in less than a week it is down to about 140. I did my part and got a St. Marks and a Round Island for about $20 below market. Was also able to pick up a Bodie for $10 under market. In addition I picked up a Seapines and Cockspur enough below market to pay for the shipping. I willl certainly continue to watch, but will have to slow down because the check book is starting to squeal a little. Hope my Seven Foot Knoll piece doesn't come in before next payday.
Jim

I have a question for the E-bay experts. Why DO they keep the reserve secret? It would seem to me that it would speed up the auction and possibly bring in a higher $ for the seller if it was known what the bottom line was to start. I know that from personal experience, I get frustrated bidding against both an unknown bidder and an unknown $ level.

Good Question Youngone. Michael and I were just talking about that tonight. We have just started using reserves in some of our auctions where we need to protect some of our larger investments. We have found that serious bidders will contact you and ask you what the reserve is.

We have been giving our reserve to anyone who asks and have subsequently watched our bids immediately climb after giving out that information.

We have seen where some people actually put in their descriptor what the reserve is and we are thinking about doing the same thing.

We just wish we could put the reserve price (in order to protect our investment) in the first bid position, but there must be a psychological thing there that turns folks off unless they see a very low opening bid.

We have been selling on eBay for almost a year now. Maybe someday we will get it all figured out. - Yeah Right!!! that's a BIG Maybe!

Karen

The way I see it is if you need to protect the investment just set your opening bid at what you have to get out of it. Not what you want to sell it for. Anything over that is icing on the cake. I have pretty much stopped using reserves since ebay is now charging extra for it. Of course a higher opening bid is only going to get the serious parties bidding on it, but that is okay too.

I'm more likely to bid on an eBay Auction if there is no reserve price and the opening bid is low. I would like to see eBay stay as a true auction. Putting HLs on eBay at retail takes the fun out of the possibility of getting more value for your money. It then just becomes an inexpensive classified ad.

I'm also surprised that AOL never got into the auction business. Ebay must be making millions!

Bob

Orv, I agree with you 100 percent. I don't understand why seller chooses to put in a reserve of let's say $50.00 when they could put the first bid price at $50.00. I am not a seller, so I don't really know the philosphy or rules, but I do see lots of minimum opening bids which to me, is basically a reserve. I tend more often to bid when I know what the price is as opposed to trying to guess, and then go from there as to how much my maximum bid would be.

Joanne

I'm not able to monitor ebay as often as most so reserve bids are a real turn-off for me. Most of the time I just put a bid in at what I'm willing to pay and, most of the time, not look again until the auction is over. Having "won" two auctions without the bid having gotten to the reserve price, I've become very frustrated with the reserve bid process. And, yes, I did contact the sellers after the fact to see what the reserve was - one responded, one did not. I guess I don't feel like I should have to contact someone for information that should have been available to begin with. Why not save us both some time. I agree with the earlier comment that an auction should not be an advertisement. If you have a set price you want, then advertise it in the Marketplace section of the forums. If you want to put an item up for auction, put a price on it that you're willing to take and make that price attractive enough to entice some bidders. The opening price has to be low enough to get someone to start the bidding process. Once the actual bidding starts, then the logic circuits of the brain naturally disingage and people do all sorts of interesting and unusual things. That's the fun of the auction process. If I want to buy at retail, I'd rather buy directly from one of the HL forum family.

Both are correct on this. Many times I have sold pieces on Ebay with reserve at more than I would have sold for if someone had went to the trouble to email me and ask for a price. I have also sold pieces at no reserve that the same thing has happened.Either way the seller is going to cover his or her investment .There are probably 4-8 dealers who would be glad to give prices, lots of cases beating Ebays, you only have to ask.
Don www.donslighthouses.com

Hey guys, I think some of you must have misunderstood some of my comments. But then I did not make it clear that we generally do not sell HL's on eBay and when we do, we never use reserves. On HL's we give only the opening bid to just cover our investment (which is always less than retail as we have had a lot of lucky buys) or the low end of what the secondary market is doing, depending on the piece. We never use reserves on HL's. Most of the time HL's aren't pricy enough to warrant it. We actually hate reserves ourselves.

We wish we didn't have to use reserves. We like youngone's idea of making them public, but that has proven itself out to us that it doesn't work that way. The thing that really confuses us that if someone inquires of our reserve, we usually see the bidding go up. But if we don't receive an inquiry, we're stagnant.

We have found in a lot of other areas that we sell in though (that is other than HL's) that if we use what we must get out of the piece to cover our investment as the opening bid, that this turns away the bidders. Our offering will not sell or will sell much lower that the other guys if the same piece is up with a low opening and a reserve. As Bob M. said "I'm more likely to bid on an eBay Auction if there is no reserve price and the opening bid is low." This seems to be the way a lot of bidders think in a reserve auction in a lot of other areas other than HL's, as well. They are looking for the low opening bid. This is also great for me when I am a buyer. But, how is a seller suppose to protect themselves and still cover their investment or possibly even make a profit, if bidders won't bid on an auction that has an opening bid that is high enough to protect the investment?

We try to buy low, cover our investment, and hope that on whatever it is that we are selling, the piece will hold its valueand we will make some money. After all that is why we spend the great deal of time that it takes to sell on eBay or any of the other auctions.

We do not understand why if we use only what we need to get out of a piece to cover our investment turns people away, but it has proven itself out to us time and time again.

We just got off the phone with one of our recent buyers and asked them, if we had started our opening bid at the $500 we invested in a matched set Popeye Cookie Jars that you just received from us, would you have ever bid on the auction. We set our reserve at the $500 (our investment) with an opening at $99. And they bid it up to $747. This set has sold for much more than that, but we were quite pleased to get $247 out of our investment. Would they have bid if our opening was at $500 with no reserve? Our buyer said no, that would have been too scary. They would never have started into the bidding with the opening that high, they would have waited for another to come along.

Do we understand this . . . Absolutely not. But we know it is true. If someone who has had this same experience can explain it to us, we (and a lot of other sellers on eBay) would love to hear clarification of the reasoning behind this. If you know something you really want and are ultimiately willing to go for (as in this real life case with us) is worth well over $500 why wouldn't you bid on it if you see that as the opening? Why do we have to play the numbers game like that? We don't want to.

We are certainly not using our offerings as advertisements as we sell one of a kind, usually unrelated items and all we are trying to do is buy low and make a little money.

As far as the comment that you made Gary about "If you have a set price you want, then advertise it in the Marketplace section of the forums." We have never advertised any of our HL's that we have sold (we have probably only sold a dozen over the last year on eBay) in the Forum because every time we have responded to a Want Ad from folks in the Marketplace on the Forum, we have given the folks really good deals and ended up holding the bag or having people back out at the very last minute. I have gotten weary of that long ago and should have learned my lesson, but just responded to one recently and it happened one more time. We don't need that type of frustration.

Off my soapbox now. Take care y'all. I am also getting weary of being misunderstood so frequently and will sign off.

Karen

Speaking of eBay...there's a Port Isabel on there that's going to end this morning. Starting bid is $49. Bids so far = 0.

Is Port Isabel such an unpopular HL that they can't even get a $49 bid on it? It also comes with free shipping. If I didn't have two of them I think I would have bought it for that price.

Bob

Thanks Bob about the Port Isabel. I made a promise to one of the marketplace buyers to purchase his at the end of this month, which brings me to another topic that I will eventually open a thread about but it seems to sprout from this one. The majority of the purchases I have made for my lights have been from people on the Marketplace. For some reason that I cannot explain, I feel more comfortable with them, No offense to the many fine people who I have done business with on EBAY. Does anyone else feel that way or am I just wacko. I guess maybe because I carry on emails with them.

i've dealt with both ebay and the Marketplace and I can truthfully say that I have not had any problems with either, particularly with regards to my HL purchases. I have had people at both places go out of their way to be helpful. I believe it is because regardless where they are selling they are still HL people and know how to deal with people. Dennis

Dennis,

I guess you're right! It makes no difference what the mode of travel is, it's the travelers that make the difference! The HL people are the best!

FYI - 3 pieces
183450935 Harbour Lights Sanibel **DUTCH**NO RESERVE US $119.00 0 10/24 16:06
cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=183450935

Auction ended with no bids- so much for the great demand for this piece!

Hi Bob, ...maybe the Dutch Auction Sanibel guy should have put an ad on the Marketplace instead:

"3 Sanibel Island HLs below retail!"
"Why pay the list price of $120 at a retailer when you can buy it from me for a dollar less!" "Shipping cost?...what's a few extra bucks!" "A few bucks isn't going to kill anybody!"

Maybe this guy doesn't realize that HLs that new, and not that rare, don't sell that easily at retail or above at eBay Auction.

Bob

I won a Sanibel auction about about six weeks ago for $113 including shipping and no one else bid against me. For me to bid on an auction the winning price must be lower than retail. If it's not,then I will purchase it on a website with free shipping and no tax. There is a method to my madness.

Joanne

Now I've seen it all.

There is a Gay Head on ebay and the opening price is $175.00.

Joanne

Gayhead on eBay for $175? Such a deal!
Perhaps they would like to reserved the new SoL piece for $250. Keep us informed if it sells for that and we'll try to visit all the area dealers and corner the market on those bad boys!

Bob

Notice that they're trying to cash in on the Kennedy tragedy by making the connection to the crash off Gay Head. I wouldn't be surprised if someone bites.

I don't think the untimely demise of JFK Jr., his wife and sister-in-law will have any effect on the sales of the Gayhead HL.

This same subject was brought up about the Peggy's Cove HL when the Swiss Air crash occurred. Ironically, I purchased my Peggy's Cove HL at USCG 1st District Headquarters in Boston the day before the crash. I think of that crash every time I look at Peggy's Cove.

Bob

I sent the following email to the person who listed Gay Head on ebay- Do you realize that there are still literally thousands of these LH's available at the original retail price? Or did you put the wrong amount in accidentally for the minimum bid? I'm just curious. I hope you are not too disappointed and that you did not pay too much over the retail price to obtain this item, because it usually takes 2-3 years for a Limited edition of 10,000 to "retire". This only means that there are no more produced but even after that date you can find the item for retail for another 6 months to 1 year. Again, I hope you did not overpay for yours, but unless you find someone who is completely uninformed about Harbour Lights you will not get one serious bid for your item. It might help if next time you do better research before trying to make a killing on a sensational item. Just some unsolicited advice. I got the following reply- you are extremely nosey and should MYOB. I forwarded a copy of your letter to
Safe Harbor. Mind Your Own Business!!..
thank You. I attempted to reply with the following- I was only trying to give you a little information that might be helpful to you. I was not trying to do anything else. I have no problem with you forwarding my email as it was done only in the spirit of being helpful to to you. Please forward this email also. Again, I apoligize if I offended you, it was not my intent. Dennis Whelan
This email was not delivered as the individual blocked my address from her email program. I checked on the item on ebay and bidding has been closed on it. No bids were recorded and it closed at least 6 days early. I have not heard from ebay about my "transgression". I don't know why it was taken off ebay , but I'm glad it was . I personally found it to be distasteful and cringed for it to be connected to Harbour Lights in any way. It was listed as follows- HARBOUR LIGHTS GAY HEAD WHERE JFkJr crashed. Item #187739633.

Sorry about the duplication.

[This message has been edited by wheland (edited 10-26-99).]

You're absolutely right about that Gayhead posting being in poor taste. Unfortunately, there are people out there that will try to make a buck on the misfortune of others.

Bob

Dennis, thank you for writing that note,and for letting us read it. You were correct in everything you wrote and very courteous in the process.

Joanne

I also wrote to the seller of the Gay Head yesterday. I told her that I had received a couple of notes from fellow HL people expressing their very strong negative feelings about her posting.

My note was more along the line of I don't know if you realize this, but I know of some HL folks who have seen her post and are offending by it. And I am sure that was not her intent. I was very courteous, and wrote it from one eBay seller to another as well as a collector of HL's.

The response I got back was that since she has over 100 of them (don't know if she meant Gay Heads or HLs) she is happy to know the auction is attracting attention . . . which is the "only" reason she placed it (in her words). She said maybe she got her message across anyway and signed off to me with a lol'S. and thanks for looking.

I am going to refrain from comment at this point. My mamma taught me to count to 10; I am past 42 and still counting.

I got a note from a fellow wacko last night telling me she had pulled the auction. I was absolutely amazed in light of her comments to me.

Karen


[This message has been edited by Michael and Karen Power (edited 10-27-99).]

I agree with, Greydawn 100%. You hit the proverbial nail right on the head. And i think that is sound advice to newcomers and veterans of the "eBay Ratrace".

I am a little behind on this one, but was reading ebay magazine the other day about reserves. I also wondered why put a reserve on when you could just post the original bid at the least that you would take on a item. According to the "experts" at ebay, the best way to sell a piece for the most is to put a reserve on at the least price you would except, and then let the beginning bid be real low. What happens then is when it starts low, apparently it attracks a lot of the bidders, and the bidding war begins. According to them often the piece goes higher than expected because people are more concerned with winning a bid that they are involved in.
Personally, i have obtained several HL pieces on ebay, some of them at 50% off, but I don't like the reserve. The most fun and success I have is when I find a "dutch" auction.
Also, I have noticed that the prices have gotten way up in the last month or so, with fewer pieces beeing bid on.

Rusty

Thanks for that info, Rusty. It makes sense to me. Everything I sell on eBay has no reserve and a low starting bid. I've done well. It's great to see the bids almost double in the last few hours of the auction. As Detective Harry Callahan said, "Do you feel lucky?"

Bob

Just noticed eBay almost broke the 300 mark this afternoon on the HL auctions. It appears a couple of dealers may be cleaning house but do not intend to take a loss on the HLs.

Bob

During the morning it did, in fact, reach 311 which is the highest I have ever seen it. Yes, it does appear that fall house (store) cleaning in going on.
Jim

Guys,

I've been away from the forums for a couple of days and all I can say is WOW!. This nice person with the Gay Heads has been a great read. But I guess with a company that allows babies to be sold, (or at least attempted to be sold) what can you expect. This leads me to a question. It seems that Ebay has no control over what is posted, is this true? I noticed with the baby thing, after it got the bad press, Ebay came in and removed it. Was this because of the bad press or because they just missed it being posted? Sorry, I know I'm off the HL's but I'm still trying to figure out the workings of EBay.

It would appear that just like these forums there is no initial control over the contents of a message. I assume E-bay does do regular monitoring. It would not surprise me if they have or will soon have a filter that catches certain words in postings and certain user-ids, then sends an alert to a moderator.

Rgds,
__
/im

To read the continuation of this thread ...
Part Two