I can't belive the secondary prices on this Forum in the last few days there have been some good deals like HL#101, 114,119 going for $50.00 and now HL#168,177 and others going for $40.00. In the past few days I have purchased 7 Harbour Lights from this Fourm. Hello Limited editions and goodby to all my Glows.

IMHO, Like the Stock market, right now there are good deals out there, once the economy makes the turn for the better, I think the HL and collectible markets will follow suit!

I can't believe the amount of people dumping their lighthouse. The only thing that I can figure is the people were speculating in the collectible lighthouse field and now they are tired of them and they're trying to recoup their money as fast as they can. I wish that I had some extra money to buy a few of these pieces for resale when the market comes back up. I'm in for the long haul and will take the extra pieces I have to the grave or will donate them to a charity auction before I'll dump them for these kind of prices.

Rich --

People sell for a lot of reasons. Someone has passed away and the survivor doesn't have the room or interest in lighthouses.

They may be down-sizing their home after retiring and again, don't have the room to display or store boxes.

And, in at one case I know of, the seller is losing their eyesight and has chosen to sell their collection with some sorrow, but recognition they will be able to enjoy viewing them through their memories but not through their eyes anymore.

Some may have lost employment or been 'downsized' into a job that doesn't pay as much and been forced to stop collecting.

And, yes, in a few cases, the individual may have enthusiastically purchased 'extras' in the past, hoping they would appreciate in value. But because of a poor economy, loss of a job, ebay, or whatever the appreciation hasn't happened and now they want to simply 'cash out'.

Buy because you enjoy them... now as in the past and you won't go wrong. Buying now because you expect them to go up in value and might profit from them in the future still isn't a good reason, in my opinion.

I say this from personal experience.

I agree with what you've just said, John.

There are many reasons why people sell...anything.

I've sold homes for many years...and you really have to look hard at the sold prices when they flucuate...before you start comparing in order to arrive at market value...or in the real estate world call them "comparables".

A real estate appraiser licensed to do just that...has methods and formulas to adjust the prices of sold property before arriving at a "comparable". A house might even transfer to a new owner for the price of $1.00! (usually when a home is given to another family member)

As for Harbour Lights... we could probably write a book on the many reasons a collector might part with his "babies".

Judy

I can't argue with a thing John or Lighthouser has said. I realize that many things can happen to make a person sell collectibles or "whatever". I was just trying to make a point about panicking and selling at a loss just because everyone else is doing that. If you have to sell because of a personal reason, whatever it may be, you have to sell. What I feel is happening, by looking at the recent postings on the Marketplace Forum is people registering just to sell lighthouses at prices below what the dealer pays. If we are truly in an economy where the collectible industry is suffering that bad I just don't see it here in my neck of the woods. I truly hope that the rest of the country is not in that bad of shape as the collectible market seems to indicate. I really feel that the lighthouse craze has passed and what is left is the true collector and many people that got caught up in the lighthouse buying fad are now getting rid of their investments and will probably take their money and go after something else.

For the people that have inherited lighthouses from loved ones, the people that have had misfortunes and are forced to give up their collections and for the people that are downsizing because of financial reasons or retirement, and are trying to sell off some or all of their lighthouses, I wish you all the best of luck in recouping your money.

I am sure I am like alot you folks. I search and search for just the right piece before I purchase a lighthouse.My hard earned money goes to buying these pieces.So I can see that prices are sliding down just a little, but I could never sell the rare pieces that I have aquired.It would be too easy.Collecting is just like to stock market really.Just because the bottom fell out of the market does not necessarily mean I would sell my stocks.The stock market is rebounding and collectible prices will too. It is just like anything else when its price is high, it has only one way to go and that is down.I too am kind of surprised that HL secondary prices had slid a bit,
but holding on for the long haul always pays off.
Plus I also collect music memoriablia and to me a price tag can't be put on how much enjoyment I get from old vinyl records and my lighthouses.Rick

Without meaning to offend anyone, I also think there are some people who just haven't followed the secondary market and therefor don't know what some of them are worth. Some real bargains for those that know and unfortunately for the sellers money left on the table.

Larry

For instance, last month I bought an "Admirality Head" with no box, with papers, with lightning rod on e-Bay for $30 including shipping. There was only on e other bid. I was apprehesive about what would really show up but everything was as promised. It proudly sits on display today. What a deal Buy low, sell high. Since advice is free - eat less and exercise more.

I got a Key West for $162. Never thought I'd find one for under 200 bucks. Now all I need is St. Augustine and my Southern Belles collection will be complete.

The downside: My secondary market conquests have eaten into my "unretired" purchasing power. This year I've gotten Pharos and SE Block on the Move. I have no plans to buy any more this year (other than the society piece) unless one of the 2nd half releases really bowls me over.

I've been tracking e-bay harbour light sales for two months on a daily basis. In general, the market is loaded with good buys. The person who bought the 52 item lot paid an average of $10.50 including many "collectible" pieces. Many of the original 17 offered lately have been going for much less than being asked/sold a year ago. Buyers can generally pick up "average" pieces for less than $40 and even some of those pieces that have been holding there own at higher prices seem to have dropped. I've been following the lightship Chesepeake for some time and was holding off because I didn't want to spend over $100. I just picked up the item for around $70, and that included a last minute bidding war. I also noticed that less number of pieces are being offered on e-bay than in recent months. At the peak, about six months ago, around 350-379 seemed to be the average number of pieces being offered on a daily basis. Lately, I've noticed less than 300 pieces being offered on some days. Perhaps sellers are keeping pieces off the market because of the deflated prices?

This is indeed a worderful time to possibly pick up some of those missing pieces. Any market, collectibles, housing, whatever, will have its ups and downs. Right now money is down, e.g., interest rates. Stocks were down, now ther're going up (buy). Be glad you didn't invest in Beanie Babies. How could anyone ever have believed they were going to be worth anything when they gave away 50,000 of one type at a Cubs game. Nobody ever got rich buying high and selling low. I buy to collect and have never sold and probably never will, unless I can replace a GLOW with a LE. In that case I would most likely give the GLOW to my kids or someone else's as a gift, maybe starting a new interest. I suppose another choice would be to donate to a school and provide enrichment talks. Anyone know of a program like this?

The trend related to the total number of HL offerings on Ebay is more seasonal than market drivin.For example....... The greatest number of listings is during and around the holidays. The lowest is during the summer vacation season.Until this year you could expect,like clockwork, the more rare pieces to be offered on Ebay in and around tax time.

I've been collecting HL's since the first year that they were introduced. Likewise, I've seen "hi's" and "low's" come and go...just like the tides. Bottom line: As long as you enjoy them the secondary-market is irrelevant. If, however, you bought them with the slightest intent of "investment", then your concerns will vary with the market.
I used to watch HL values just like the stock-market, almost day to day. Then, over a period of time I said to myself...."this isn't fun anymore"....and had to make a fundamental decision. Either get rid of them or continue to enjoy them as I did in the beginning. Well, its been 12 years and I'm still here...enjoying each piece as I did the first.

Watching E-bay sales of Harbour Lights just doesn't concern me...as to the value of any one piece in my collection. I have been able to purchase a few that I needed to fill in, at what I felt were good prices...so E-bay has been a good thing for me in that respect.

I have a few prizes in my personal collection that it just simply pleases me to know their increased value, which seems to be holding.

But for the most part, the market on E-bay is influenced by way too many factors to use the data scientifically.

Just plain happy to be a Harbour Lights collector!

Judy

Im not talking about E-bay, Im talking about The MARKET PLACE on this fourm, with collectors selling for $40.00 and 50.00.

I'm buying because I want to own the individual piece. However, if I can find a great bargain, well below cost, on e-bay, then that's going to be my market place of choice over retail. As much as I want to support the retail stores when possible (and I do by receiving all the new pieces), why not save money and get "more for my buck" when possible

err... cuz the secondary market has been in free fall for the last 3-4 years. Has it hit bottom? Hard to say.

Will it rebound? Not likely in my opinion. If HL models were to follow 'hard asset Collectibles' (coins, stamps, shaded dogs, etc.) that woulda happened. I won't dismiss out-of-hand the remote possibility of a short-term Harbor Lights 'poodle skirt revival', but if such were to happen, it'll come out of nowhere and won't be tied to external factors.

The only action in the secondary is w/in the 5500 series and many of those are struggling to hang on to their cachet.

Well... let me back off a tad. If the San Adreas fault acts up and California slips away, we might see the unthinkable - the early Westerns could become real interesting. Grab those Cape Blancos and North Heads while you can.

Like a jukebox in the fog,
T

I don't agree that the "bottom is dropping out" or even that "the secondary market has been on a freefall for the last several years" where Harbour Lights are concerned.

Harbour Lights are still today the most authentic, the most detailed and the best made of all lighthouse miniatures on the market. They are the most coveted and most sought after lighthouse collectibles.

The forums here..."The Marketplace", and "The Secondary Market" are simply excellent tools for members to sell and purchase and have discussions.

This is a free enterprise that we live in.

There are always going to be special reasons that people sell anything. There is no way that these special, and in many cases, unique sales can be scientifically, or mathamatically applied to fair market value.

Fair market value is always going to be what someone is willing to pay for what someone else is willing to sell...for whatever reason...at whatever point in time.

Judy A Happy & Long-Term Collector of Harbour Lights

Beyond your first sentence, I don't disagree with anything you say Judy. :-) But none of it speaks to the market. If you were to check secondary prices from 2000 until now, you'd see a very steady decline - there are plenty of hard numbers here in the forums. Small rallies have been followed by further drops. Across those years, I've seen no evidence to the contrary. The facts of pricing don't bear much relationship to what you or I think of the quality of Harbour Lights or free enterprise.

One can speculate about why this has happened. As with the valuation of any Collectible, there are many answers and few proofs. I think it began years ago with the introduction of a much too high edition size (9500-10000) and HL's own cannibalization of uniqueness with the widespread Glow line.

T

I must agree with the above(concerning over production and GLOWS). We probably could have survived over production(as Harbour Lights realized their lack of sales of the high numbers and iniatiated self-imposed retirements and lower edition sizes) but the introduction of the GLOW line and the continued production of these pieces has been the biggest contributor to the down fall of the secondary market for limited edition pieces.

Now we mustn't blame the whole LE secondary market fiasco on Harbour Lights because they are a business and must make a profit to stay in business. The GLOW line would not have succeeded and would probably have disappeared had it not been for the LE collectors. The non-collector buying a GLOW while on vacation or for an occasional gift was not the responsible person for undermining the LE market, it is the dedicated collector satisfied with a GLOW to fill in their LE collection, rather then save their money to buy the "Real Thing".

What we are witnessing on the Marketplace Forum and E-Bay is a direct result of this willingness to buy an affordable GLOW to fill the gaps of a collection and we only have ourselves to blame for the LE decline. I for one do not feel the LE secondary market will ever rebound for this great artwork that Harbour Lights produces(the best and most accurate and affordable on the market) and to this end I will keep my prices for my extra pieces where they are. I will not add to the secondary market decline and will give the extra pieces to charities before I will sell a LE for $30.00-$40.00. I understand there are reasons that some collectors have for getting rid of a collection such as a death, hardship or medical reasons, but, the prices I have seen advertised tell me that some collectors that got into collecting because it was the "in thing to do" are now getting out and trying to salvage some of their investments. The collectors that are in it for the long haul because of their love of lighthouses) are the ones that are suffering.

The above is my opinion of course and I'm sure will be agreed by some and disagreed to by many, but, this is why I like these Forums because it gives us all a place to express our opinions.

I would disagree with this statement.What we are really witnessing on the Marketplace Forum and E-Bay is a direct result of too many people having bought too many lighthouses and have no place to display or store them. Bottom line, you don't want it anymore you sell it and get what you can.

The next rennaisance for Harbour Lights will occur in approximately 38 years, when the '91 editions officially become antiques. I will be 76. In that time, many pieces from '91 will be lost or damaged (read: worthless), thus making the remaining ones extremely valuable. One of the strongest performers will be Admiralty Head...the first Harbour Light in the catalog. Cape Hatteras, Coquille (of course), Burrows Island, and Sandy Hook will fetch huge prices...just astronomical.

The '92, '93 and '94 editions will also hold considerable value. An entire set of the Southern Belles or New England Series will equal the downpayment on a house (so if your sets aren't complete yet, better hop to it).

Even if Harbour Lights goes out of business tomorrow, the long-term future for the early pieces is mighty rosy. Not so good for the 1995+ crowd, with few exceptions.

With only a handful of valuable stars (Coquille, etc.), the secondary market has switched to a full-blown buyers market, and there it will stay for the near future.

An entire column could be written about the short- and long-term outlook for Harbour Lights's secondary market potential. But the underlying moral behind such speculation can always be summed up in 6 words: Buy them because you like them.

Buy them because you like them.

Buy them because you like them.

Bill
I totally agree with you, especially with your ending quote
The Lightkeeper
Mike

Bill,

I agree with you 6 word dictum-

Buy them because you like them.

Unfortunately many did that with one addendum- Buy Them Because You like Them- and you'll probably be able to sell them for at least what you paid for them.

Don't look too closely at the facts or that concept might not hold water. Just keep telling yourself that and build that addition to hold the cabinets.

I think this is one rationalization that allows a Harbour Lights Addict to rationalize that it is OK to spend all that money on something that has no true quantitative useful purpose other than pure pleasure.

Like any addiction that is based on pleasure.

Dennis

I'll drink to that! (once I snuff out this butt and hit the slots...)

Right on to the "buy them because you like them" idea. With few exceptions, I gave up the idea of trying to offset my 401k losses with Harbour Lights sales. I think on only two occasions I've made trades that have worked out in my favor, otherwise I've stopped buying to re-sell. I've got better things to spend my money on than "stock" to keep in a closet. In the long run, I'll stick with the stock market to finance my retirement and Daughter's college fund, and keep the Harbour Lights for collecting.

Now, I just hve to figure out what to spend my $400.00 check from the I.R.S on.....

Mike