Well, the last HL dealer in Ocala has given up the ghost. We had four dealers a year ago and now there are none. This is another nail in the proverbial Harbour Lights coffin.

They are going out of the lighthouse business because of past higher edition sizes, GLOWS and now re-introductions in that order. They have approximately 60 lighthouses that they are starting to sell at 40% off. They have a good selection from present to about 4 years back and are willing to ship for a small additional price. They have several event pieces, past/present Society pieces and regular LE/GLOW pieces. Also have some LLOMs, Anchor Bays(with cases) and lenses. If interested please give me an email and I will give your the store name and telephone number.

That is sad news.
Jacksonville still has one left.
In 1997 they had 12

Daniel and Rich,

It’s a shame to see what has happened in the last few years with dealers dropping the Harbour Lights line – never to return. It’s almost like a destructive cancer, computer virus, or a bite from a brown recluse spider attacking Harbour Lights from within. Unfortunately, it appears to have been generated from within.

Not only has Harbour Lights seem to have lost its rudder and its propeller but also a responsible, compassionate, knowledgeable and competent captain. I wonder how poor Bill feels seeing his wonderful and beautiful creation being totally thrown down the toilet one flush at a time.

How sad – how very sad.

bobo

And the downward spiral seems to be continuing with the latest Cape Neddick abomination and increased production of those nasty GLOWs. I still feel that if the GLOWs were tabled, reintroductions were halted, more emphasis was placed on LLOMs for profits and LEs were left to continue as they are now, HL might squeak by till the collectible trend improves. As we all remember, HL started with 17 lighthouses the first year in a production run of 5500 each. They made money(maybe not the stash that they hauled in during the lighthouse heydays)and managed to survive. It appears that too rapid expansion, 9/11 and some bad decisions got the best of them and now they are grasping for any flotation device to try and stay afloat. The reintroductions are that floatation device and it "ain't working" folks. Stop and smell the proverbial roses and get back to your grass roots. What ever happened to "We'll never reintroduce a limited edition lighthouse that has already be produced" that Bill use to say? It's the "flotation theory" that was used on the Titanic and everybody knows the results of that cruise.

I'm sorta new to this, but was wondering how 9/11 was involved in the "downward" trend of Harbour Lights?

Yeah Rich--how does 9/11 enter into this equation?

I can answer the 9/11 question.
The stock market was already jittery before 9/11 and when 9/11 hit, the stock market started tumbling down. Many investors held in there hoping for an up swing. It did not happen. Most were in the fast aggressive stocks that fell half the value almost over night.

Now how did the stock market affect collecting Harbour Lights? Many employers and self-employed have the 401-k investment plan. It allows you to pick the slow growing saving plans or the aggressive stock market. Basically, what happened is many workers just had their retirement benefits cut in half. Since Harbour Lights is mainly collected, by the Baby boomers that are retired or close to it, now have less money than was anticipated.

The other more obvious relationship for less collecting is the stock market drop triggered a recession. Means everybody has less money for collecting.

The other less obvious reason for recession is that many of our financial geniuses were killed in 9/11

I could go on with all the disasters that came from 9/11 but I think I said enough

Daniel explained how 9/11 contibuted to the ""Collectible Downfall" really well. In addition, many articles were written explaining that after 9/11 people started buying homes, land, investing their money in safer ways and other more tangible things then collectibles. Harbour Lights being a collectible suffered. I have talked to several of the collectible shops prior to them going out of business and they verified that after 9/11 their business seemed to drop in half.

Good answers. Clarified it for me. Thanks.

Daniel and Rich,

Your answers to the 9/11 question were extremely insightful. And everything you stated is true. Thank you both.

bobo

Thank you both for helping clarify.

I don't think anyone should be blaming Harbour Lights for dealer closings. These former dealers must sell other items, besides HL's, that kept their stores afloat. The collectibles industry is down. Many manufacturers didn't survive. That's a fact of life in the business world.

Harbour Lights did not take the money and run. They attempted to adapt to the changing business climate by offering new products hoping to renew interest in collectibles. They have made adjustments to try to keep potential consumers interested in what they had to offer. Some ventures worked, some were received with a cold shoulder from "old-time" collectors.

Those who supported Harbour Lights and its dealers by buying one of everything on autoship or just by walking into the store and buying a piece off the shelf every time a new piece was offered are fewer in number. "Old-time" collectors are becoming just that, "old-time" collectors. They are getting up in years and are trying to downsize. They move into smaller homes and can no longer afford to keep such a large collection. Many are on a fixed income with less expendible cash. Collecting becomes less of a priority.

If I had to name a source for the lessening of the values of HL's, I would start with eBay. Ebay is a good-bad dream. It's good to be able to find those super rare pieces that would be impossible to find otherwise, but it's bad because people just "dump" their "unwantables" and take whatever they can get for those items.

The next source for the lessening of the values of HL's lies with those folks looking for a deal. Can you really blame them for trying to save a buck building a collection? Why pay retail at a dealer when you can buy it at eBay for a bargain price. When this scenario happens, we all lose. The dealer doesn't make a sale and, therefore, loses income. The dealer gets stuck with old stock that doesn't sell and turns to you-know-what to dump their unsellables. The value of our collections lessen with every piece sold at a bargain on eBay.

Sometimes I think this wonderful information age of computers can be detrimental to our health, mentally and financially. Try and picture a collector who doesn't know about eBay. Think of this person going into their dealer and buying the new releases for retail. The dealer smiles, the buyers smiles, and life goes on. Then think of the person who thinks "why pay retail" and doesn't support a dealer. The dealer loses profit and eventually drops the line or goes out of business. The bargain hunter gets his or her piece but reduces its value and the value of others just like it. Instead of that $75 retail piece starting out with a value of $75, it now is worth much less because you can find it on eBay.

Very few pieces from the past sell like they used to. Very few collectors are willing to pay actual worth anymore. The secondary market has gone down the shute taking some wonderful secondary dealers with it. Thanks eBay! Thank you bargain hunters! Collecting is cheaper now for those filling in the missing pieces from the past. The pieces are the same but they are just worth less than ever before. Who can blame Harbour lights for that?

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

No one can Blame Harbour Lights for Ebay and the results that Ebay had on the collectible market. And no one can blame a collector for wanting a bargain. Neither one of these can be controlled by Harbour Lights. These two items are the end results of the two root causes and these root causes CAN be blamed on Harbour Lights. They are over production of limited editions and GLOWS. Without listening to their collectors, and wanting the almighty dollar, Harbour Lights went blindly forth and created the market glut which has directly led to bargain hunters finding these limited editions on Ebay.

Enough of my opinions.

Bob M
You hit the nail on the head.
If you add up all the hurdles ahead for Harbour Lights, the only positive thing I see is that they make an awesome lighthouse. The best thing for us to do is to buy from ebay for only the Hard to find pieces and when ever possible buy from a dealer. It may cost more but in a long run, it will help the secondary value of our collections.

I hope Harbour Lights been tucking away their Hay day profits. They definitely did flood the market but we really didn’t know how much until ebay came along. At least for the limited editions. But I wouldn't put all the blame on HL when it comes to the L.E's. There was allot of speculators that was hording the L.E. until they realized that the valuable Harbour light that was worth a lot has fallen in value and they have been dumping them. The Southern Bells are going through that right now.

Supply and Demand.
If I have only one and no one wants it, it is worthless. Harbour Lights have cut down the number issued on recent issues which helps the supply side, but the number of collectors seem to be static at best. If seems all collectables go through up and down phases, hopefully a up phase will come soon.

I beg to differ on that point, Rich. The reason Harbour Lights started to increase their edition sizes, way back when, was two fold.

First collecting was at a high and many HL dealers were complaining they couldn't get enough of better selling HL's. Some dealers were only able to get a few of each light making it difficult to satisfy their customers' needs. When production numbers were increased it backfired. Dealers got more of each light but then collectors realized there was no need to rush to a dealer because of the adequate supply. That's when the higher edition pieces started to take up shelf space why the more serious collectors hunted down the rarer, hard to find pieces. That's when eBay was in it's rapid growth stage and the collectors flocked to eBay for bargains.

Second, can you blame Harbour Lights for taking a chance with larger edition sizes? Dealers were actually asking for more stock hoping to cash in on the collectors' high. Some collectors got shut out on certain pieces because of the lower edition sizes and were asking Harbour Lights to increase their edition sizes. If you were in business selling eggs and you sold out every day, wouldn't you turn around and stock more eggs?

I've said it before, and I'll say in again. Harbour Lights is in business to make money. They are not greedy in any sense of the word. They have been more than generous supporting many charitable causes when it comes to lighthouses. They also lend their personal support by flying all over God's creation to support the plight of endangered lighthouses. They work hard to support those who support them. They have a mission and they've stuck to it.

The business world is a dog-eat-dog situation. All businesses must adapt and overcome challenges if they are to survive. Who can blame Harbour Lights for taking chances with new innovations in the collectible industry. Either you run with the leaders or fall back in the pack. Have they made moves that are questionable? I would say yes, but they have also made moves to correct what some may perceive as incorrect.

Everyone has an opinion and should never be afraid to express it. Collecting is one of those industries where you must look forward to the future but never forget your past. As a manufacturer you cannot be afraid to try new things especially if it may even fall into the category of "Let's give them something to talk about".

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

Bob, I'm "on the same page" with you about the business practices of Harbour Lights.

And what I've quoted from your post can not be said often enough.

They have been a generous and willing supporter of Outer Banks Lighthouse Society, as well as many, many lh groups. As an officer of OBLHS and in charge of the fundraising, so many times I've asked for help, and always, always, they come forth, quickly, with a much more generous offer than I've requested.

We're working on a project right now which will have an enormous impact on those lighthouses in North Carolina owned by the National Park Service.

I've also participated in several in-store signings in the last few years where Bill, or Nancy or Kim, or sometimes a combination have flown in for 4-5 hours and head right back to the airport to catch another signing somewhere else the very next day. Even though they are on a tight schedule, and possibly very tired or otherwise not feeling good, they are always full of smiles and eager.

I'm possitive every other lh group that has experienced the generiosity of Harbour Lights would join me in singing their praises.

Judy

Your overzealous support of Harbour Lights is commendable and to the point of Harbour Lights being generous towards lighthouse conservation I couldn't agree with you more. The fact that Harbour Lights is friendly, helpful and supports lighthouse causes is also true.

I do disagree with the point that dealers/collectors asking for increased production was the reason that Harbour Lights increased their production runs. I can say without a shadow of a doubt, after talking to these dealers over the years, that NONE of the dealers in Ocala(4) and Gainesville(3) ever asked for an increase in production of limited editions. To the contrary, they fed back to Harbour Lights to keep the production rate to the original 5500. Five out of the seven dealers were on autoship and still had the insight to order additional pieces before they were sold out. The dealers that you are talking about that wanted the increase in production may not have had the iniative to order in advance or get on autoship. Of the five collectors that I know personally in the Ocala area, not one of them, or myself, ever asked for an increase in production. Three of us were/are on autoship and the other three bought what they liked. It doesn't take a "Rocket Scientist" to figure out what is going to happen to the secondary market value of anything once the supply exceeds the demand. And then there are the "GLOWS". Between overproduction and these little beauties, the hand writing was on the wall.

While all of the above is a moot point as everyone has their own opinion as to what led to, or is leading to, the demise of Harbour Lights on the secondary market, I think we can all agree that the quality of these lighthouses is second to none and the generosity/friendliness has never waned.

I don't consider my own comments here overzealous by any stretch of the imagination. My remarks were however from long term personal experience with Harbour Lights, and also from the heart.

Absolutely agree with this... As to the problem with the secondary market, my opinion is that Ebay (the un-educated sellers and buyers segment of EBay)is one of the biggest culprits, but that subject has all been discussed before.

Judy

I agree with Bob and Judy. HL is a great company and in the market to make money if they want to survive. We all might have made some different decisions along the way but then probably so would HL if the truth be known. The important fact is they are still in business and offer the finest lighthouse replicas around in a collectible market that is not what it use to be.
Judy

I know this is going to step on a few toes, but hey it’s only the truth. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the only villains in this piece were the Harbour Lights hoarders, and the secondary market gougers who thought that they could fund their retirement, children's college, or etc, from HL’s product. These two groups are what made it seem that HL needed to increase production to the point they did. When Ebay came along and showed the true value of the pieces, the loudest screams came from these groups. Now personally I'm glad the secondary0 market has collapsed, and the HL hoarders have decided to sell off their ill-gotten gains, it sure makes it a lot cheaper to pick up the older pieces I missed when I first started.

Eric, I feel I must respond and tell you I'm in total disagreement with the above excerpt from your post. Actually I'm hoping you typed that in to to seek further responses under this topic, and don't really feel that way.

Harbour Lights made nothing off the secondary market. HL's were sold to dealers who in turn sold them to the public. Both dealers and Harbour Lights made a profit. Collector's needs were satisfied and business was good.

As HL collecting started to catch on, there suddenly was a need for a secondary market. An outlet was needed to exchange HL's from the past and satisfy the need of new collectors hunting down older pieces. Although some collectors didn't want to give up some of their treasured pieces, they did because they were made an offer they couldn't refuse.

I would be willing to bet that the majority of HL collectors started collecting because they saw the value of the older HL's going up and not strictly because of their love of lighthouses. When they reached into their wallets or pocketbooks to shell out $60 plus for a new piece, they felt in the back of their minds that the HL they were purchasing might be worth more than they paid for it someday. Nay not so anymore.

I purchased my first HL, Southeast Light Block Island, during the summer of '94. I bought it because I liked it. It was a symbol of my favorite island. It reminded me of my many summers at the island. I never heard of Harbour Lights and had no desire to collect lighthouses. Things remained status quo until September '97 when somehow I stumbled on to the old HL Board on AOL and got hooked up with some of the original HL collectors. I then went from one HL that cost me $75, to owning one of every LE HL had ever made. This didn't happen overnight and took many years to accomplish, along with many thousands of dollars.

I didn't start buying extras until the bargains started. I just couldn't let pieces go by when they were so cheap. I even had an idea about trying to complete a second collection of every LE. I've long since dropped that idea.

Will there ever be another secondary market for HL's? Your guess is as good as mine. I'm still buying one of each out of habit and my appreciation for everything Harbour Lights has done, and all the nice people I have met through HL collecting.

My true hope is the HL fever will once again rise with a steady influx of new collectors with fire in their hearts and the well needed passion to keep the whole thing going for many years to come.

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

Bob,

I think Eric makes a very valid point- his method in stating it might seem a bit crass but there's a good bit of validity to his point.

I never bought more than one of anything with the idea of profiting in my mind. I did however get involved in this with two things in mind

1. I was collecting the HL Lighthouses because I was genuinely interested in Lighthouses and I thought that the NL models were the best out there from an aesthetic point of view.

2. I did consider that there was a possibillity that what I was buying would be worth more in the future- or at the very least the value would remain near what I paid for them. This one one of the points i made to Esther to help her understand why her house was beginning to look like a HL Dealer.

Point 1 was the paramount reason for my purchases. Point 2 helped fuel the purchasing, though.

I have slowed down in my purchases considerably- partially because of the deflation of the values of the ones I have but primarily because I just don't have the room to display all of the ones I already have.

I have never been a collector of anything simply just to have it. I want to be able to display it or enjoy it- in the case of the music I buy.

There is another reason that HL Collectibles have fallen on hard times that is not touched on much in these discissions. The longer a collectible line has been out the harder it is for a newcomer to even start.

It was daunting enough to me when I started in 1999 and saw the number of items already issued. It becomes increasinly difficult to get somebody over the hump when the number of items is in the hundreds. I'm not even considering things like GLOWS, reissues, ornaments, etc. just LE's.

A collectible can only survive and flourish if there is a continual turnover in collectors. It's inevitable that peple will lose the fire that drives them to collect after a certain point has been reached- dollar wise, space wise and just plain interest level.

You need to have people come in at the entry level to replace those who leave or just slow down their interest and purchases.

Bottom line - every factor that has been mentioned in this thread has a part to do with why the HL situation is as it is today. Some reasons have more impact, some less but they all factor into it.

Dennis

Eric,
I also must respond to your post. I may be one of the guilty ones that you are referring to but in order to keep my lighthouse habit going, and not take money from other needed items, I bought an extra piece if I knew it would increase in value or if I came across a deal too good to pass up. This has allowed me to purchase all the limited editions and Anchor Bays without my wife kicking me out of the house. I have NEVER sold on EBAY or do I ever intend to sell on Ebay. All my purchases(except 2) have been off the Collectors Forums, from Secondary Market dealers or dealers. I have had a couple of purchases made for me from EBAY by a friend and the reason for that is I prefer to stay away from EBAY for reasons I don't care to discuss. Please don't classify everybody that collects extra pieces in your catagories that you listed as there are exceptions. I can relate to what Bob M has written and hopefully you can understand why I bought extra HLs to sell. By the way, I at one time had over 80 extra pieces and am now down to 17 pieces left. I have sold over 50 of these pieces on the Forums and have not made more then $10.00-$15.00 on any piece that I have sold. Everyone has been happy and I have kept my habit going. Am I to blame for Harbour Lights deterioration or the secondary market going bust? I don't think so. And the final thing I would like to say is this. If a person wants to gamble and take a chance on investing money for a higher resale value at a later time then WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT? Are you telling me that you never gamble or invest money to make money or own stocks. Think about it and maybe you should reword your above post.

OK so maybe I was a little direct, but I stand by what I said.

Rich, you do make a point about investing money to make money, if someone invests in real estate, stocks, or bonds that's one thing. If someone is planning to fund their retirement on chunks of plaster, they need to have their head examined. In fact Rich if you remember I even bought an Anchor Bay off of you. I paid you a lot less than retail, sure you kept the glass case, but all I wanted was the ship.

Heck I just bought 6 older HLs for less than 150 dollars. When I started collecting if I had bought these lights they would have set me back at least $600. So yes I am happy to see the older pieces going for a lot less then they used too.

You all have made valid points. The problem I see is that we are trying to generalize everything into one category greedy or not greedy. Not everyone that sold Harbour Lights for a profit was a hoarder or even greedy. Many collectors at the time sold their collections because they needed the money, for example to put their child thru college or some other necessary reason. If you buy something because you like it and later it becomes valuable and then you sell for a profit. This no way falls into the greedy or hoarding category. Next we had legitimate secondary market salesman that would grab up complete collection and turn around to sell them individually to the public. These people took a risk and bought a whole collection at a fare price, many times sight unseen to try and make a profit. They sold them for the going market price and did the collectors a service by finding a collectable and making it available to the public. They had a web site and an honorable reputation. Then there was the collector that would do leg work to find a deal and when he did would buy two to trade or sell for a profit to support his collecting habit. I have no problem with this and I know of collectors that the only way they could have afforded to collect was by selling some of their extras.

With all that said that doesn’t mean I don’t agree with Eric that there was a lot of hoarding and marketeering going on, because there was. These were people that only bought Harbour lights to make a profit and tried to get them to next to nothing and turn around and ask an arm and a leg for them later. They didn’t care about the collectors and considered them as fish. I know of a secondary marketer that would buy up damaged HL’s that was still on dealers shelf’s touch them up with paint and sell them for the going price. Fake low numbers and pieces with glue marks on them were showing up. I heard of one secondary dealer that would run all his HL’s thru a black light checking for glue.

There are many stories that I have heard over the years. People worry about the creditability of ebay, but I am telling you that ebay is a pussycat compared to the many racketeers that was making a killing over the Harbour lights desirability. I had to become an expect just to recognize a touch-up or a glue piece. I know of a dealer that would put away in the back room any Harbour Light that was about to retire and then bring it back out 6 months later for $200.

I saw one dealer trying to pawn off a Montauk for $400 and a chipped Cape Blanco for $200. How about the St Thomas Lighthouse. 9,500 made and I couldn’t buy one directly from any dealer when I started to collect in the winter of 96 just 6 months after it was released. Many were instantly horded and was later released on AOL starting at $130 and reach $160 by summer of 97. One collector (hoarder) had the nerve to offer for sale 10 on AOL at $160 a shot. I also know a dealer that was selling his Sanibel’s that just came from Harbour Lights, for $250 saying that they are now retired and go for the higher price. These dealers were the few and most had good reputations but you had to be careful. Does anyone remember St John asking all the collectors on AOL to only buy one, Sanibel so that there would be enough for everyone to have? The production was 9500. I rermeber Bill telling us at the first Florida club at Orlando in 97, that HL had to increase its production of LE because of the collectors. That many HL were retiring before they even hit the shelves and so that there would be enough for everone they encreased production to 10,000.

Because of the racketeering is Why St John started the “retired at Retail” that was later followed up by Sean Thompson and then by Rick Mau. This was done so that the collector gets a retired HL at retail and wouldn’t have to pay the ridiculous secondary Marketers price.
So far I just touched on the riff raff that was going on with the dealers, collectors and secondary marketers and haven’t even touched the Sales reps. I hear of forum members talking about dealers and Harbour Lights, but not sales reps. Before we start blaming HL, collectors or dealers for the flooding of HL they need to look closely at some of the Sales Reps.

Wow, that was quite a post, Dan. Fortunately, with all my buying and selling of HL's I never dealt with some of the likes you mention in your posts. I've never had any HL's repaired and wouldn't buy a repaired piece knowing it was previous damaged. I have purchased pieces with paint flaking and sold them describing their condition. I once purchased and eventually sold a low number "Holland". The guy I sold it to said it came in damaged but the box wasn't damaged. I offered him a refund but he decided to keep the piece. Could it have been a repair I didn't notice that came unglued during shipment? The damage he described to the piece should have also revealed damage to the box. I guess the only explantion would have been I was hoodwinked and bought a previously repaired piece and didn't know it. That is a real shame when it happens to the older more rare pieces with low numbers.

Honesty is always the best policy. If you repair a piece and offer it for sale, just tell an interested purchaser what you've done to fix the piece. Then that person can adjust his or her offer accordingly. It is always nice to offer a full refund if the purchaser decides to return the piece.

I've seen some of the price gouging you mentioned in your post. A person takes a chance that someone with deep pockets will need the piece and pay the price. It's a gamble the seller takes for a very small eBay fee or no chance of any loss if they are at a store. Premium pieces bring premium prices, but "a fool and his money are soon parted."

The secondary dealers I've dealt with in the past were all reliable and honest. Most added 30% commission to rep another seller. It worked on my purchases. They were nice people to do business with. I'm sorry the new ways have done away with them.

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

This may be true for your local dealers, but it was not for all of them.

I worked for a dealer in Mobile, Alabama in 1996. This was around the time of the increased LE numbers. Our owner did ask for larger runs. We ordered 100 Middle Bay Light LE's and sold 75 before they even arrived. Most of the 96 releases sold within a couple of weeks of being on the shelves. When we tried to reorder, they were gone. I remember the nearly instant retirements of Thomas Point, Alcatraz, etc.

I will also mention that during '96 & '97, I bought Admiralty Head, West Quoddy, Sandy Hook, Old Point Loma, Boston Harbor, Old Mackinac, Marblehead, Michigan City, New London Ledge, SE Block, Tybee, Key West, Ocracoke, Barnegat, Diamond Head, Cape Neddick, Holland, Montauk and Assateague ALL AT RETAIL PRICES FROM DEALERS, even though they had been on the shelves from 2 - 5 years.

In 1999, I sold about 10 of those to help fund my honeymoon. The LEAST profit I made on any of them for was twice what I had paid (even using a secondary market dealer as the middleman).

The problem is that no one expected the peak to be so short. Within a year, they couldn't begin to sell entire runs within a year or two.

Thanks for that informative post, Lou. It is an insider's look into what was actually going on during that time period. It was the "heyday" of HL collecting. Collecting of most anything enjoyed success during that period. It was definitely a great time to be selling collectibles, and an interesting time to be hunting down those little treasures.

Times have certainly changed, and not for the better. At least many collectors still treasure what they collected from the HL line. I wonder what happen to the other crazes such as Beanie Babies"?

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

Back in those 96-98 years, there were a few 'triggers' that jumped dealer demands.

One was an early sell-out of Thomas Point, the first 'screw pile' to be released. It was shown at an Atlanta trade show early and the entire production run was sold out at that show. Harbour Lights dealers couldn't get them.

So, Harbour Lights cancelled all the Atlanta show orders and put them on allocation to the current dealers. These dealers knew they wouldn't be able to order any more and that caused them to begin placing larger initial orders on other new releases.

Several pieces then sold out quickly to dealers as a result.

When Alcatraz was introduced, ScanTrends in San Francisco wanted to buy the entire production run from Harbour Lights. Bill said 'no-way', but they were allowed to buy 2,000 -- the very significant percentage of the run. Again this caused a shortage for the rest of the dealers who again upped their initial orders rather than be shut-out when it came time to re-order.

Early collectors may recall that ScanTrends was selling Alcatraz for quite a while after every other dealer was sold out. And they upped the priced a few dollars as their inventory went down.

So that explains why I was able to get my Alcatraz from Scan Trends many years ago, when it wasn't available at any area dealers.

Bob

Actually last summer when I was in San Fran for the regional I stopped in and got to talking with the lady who runs Scan Trends, and she stated that they still have a few of the original run of Alcatrazs in stock. She had had an original Ponce Inlet at retail , but my fellow Floridian RIP had beaten me there and already bought it.

Rich,

Although I frequently view these forums, I have seldom posted here over the past five years or so, but I feel compelled to do so now.

I was curious when I read the start of your post. You and I spoke several years ago when I too lived in Ocala. I now live in Leesburg and buy a number of Harbour Lights new releases at the Gray Fox here in Leesburg. There is also a Gray Fox dealer, with whom I had previously done business, in the Paddock Mall in Ocala. Anyway, I went into to the Leesburg Gray Fox today to check on the whereabouts of my Society piece. The manager on duty told me that my piece had erroneously been shipped to the Gray Fox in Ocala, so I asked him about the rumor I had heard that the Ocala store was going to discontinue the sale of Harbour Lights. He immediately responded that the stores were not going to discontinue carrying Harbour Lights, although they were willing to make some price concessions.

Needless to say, I don't believe the rumor that you began is substantiated.

I agree with your point that Harbour Lights needs to stop making Limited Edition pieces of lighthouses they have already produced as limited editions. I believe they made a promise to collectors many years ago that they would not do this.

As for edition sizes, they are the manufacturer, so they will size the editions to maximize their potential profitability.

Finally, I don't think as long time collectors we have any entitlement if we have accumulated our collection, either for our own enjoyment or for resale, that we should profit from the sale of any of our collection. That is the risk one takes when buying a "collectible". I did not start collecting Harbour Lights because I thought it was a business venture I might profit from, rather, I liked the products. The one major turnoff at the original Reunion in San Diego was we realized that there was a small portion of the attendees who did view collecting, and one might say hoarding, Harbour Lights as a business opportunity. That has never been my approach, so I guess I have a hard time understanding how someone could be upset with Younger and Associates for reasons other than the one mentioned above.

The Younger family took a large risk when they started the company 15 years ago or so, and I think they realize that, to remain competitive, they must periodically take additional risks. Some will bear fruit, others will not.

While the Younger family has done a great deal in the interest of lighthouse preservation, I am not naive. It is a symbiotic relationship. They knew that their contributions to lighthouse preservation would build even greater goodwill with their collectors, so it makes business sense to be involved. They are in business. Their business is not to ensure that their collectors enjoy a comfortable retirement from the sale of their products on the secondary market. Their business, pure and simple, is to produce lighthouse replicas that are demanded by their customers.

Tom,

I can only tell you what the store manager told me. She called me at home(phone number on record) and asked if I wanted to come into the store and check out their supply of Harbour Lights before they started their 40% off sale. She said that they were discontinuing the HL line except for special orders. Now, what is going on with the store in Leesburg and Daytona I haven't the foggiest. If they changed their mind about the Ocala store not handling HL I also do not have the foggiest as I no longer buy from them and don't go into the store very often to talk to them . I can only tell you what she said when she called. I was not dreaming this call or conversation.

Rich, perhaps by "discontinuing the line" this store means that they are no longer going to receive autoships. The store near me where I used to buy many of my HL's did this some time ago. They also marked down their stock. But they are still able to order whatever you want from HL, and serve as a "dealer" as far as being able to receive society pieces.

Tom,

I was in the Ocala Gray Fox today and talked to the manager again about the HL line. She reiterated that the Ocala store was not going to carry the HL line and the only way that someone wanting a lighthouse from the Ocala store was that she would order it for them. They were totally dropping the autoship and would not order any lights unless they were paid for in advance. She also said that she had not been given any info about the Leesburg and Daytona store giving up the line. She still has a good supply of lights back to about 4 years old and several lens and Anchor Bays left.

Funny how things work out...not too long ago, Scan(dinavian) Trends turned down HL's plan to make them an exclusive replica of Forbes Island (a small man-made floating restauarant/faux lighthouse tower docked right next to the sea lions at Pier 39, Fisherman's Wharf) because they're still trying to get rid of their supply of Alcatraz LEs...