I just got an idea...not sure if it would work, but posting it for input.

We could use a consistent, up-to-date price resource for HLs. For some time, I have been wondering how this could be achieved. Then I finally got my inspiration today by the Collectables Exchange.

I am thinking starting out with an Excel spreadsheet formatted in the following way, this being an example of the top of my head.

Cape Hatteras
Mold 1
Mold 2
GLOW
LLOM
On the Move

There would be three columns next to the names, 1,2, and 3. This would represent the lowest (1) to highest (3) prices, with the middle price being an average.

As a group, we could report prices we buy, sell, or see for a piece. If it is a high or low, it will replace that price, or if it is a middle price, all the middle prices for that piece will be averaged to give a median.

Through this method, we could have an up-to-date online resource for HL pricing that we could reference. As opposed to a GreenBook or such, it is up-to-the minute. You can make sure you are getting the best possible price for your piece.

Let me know what you think. I'm willing to take this project further. I'm open to any comments.

That sounds good to me.

But...... can a spreadsheet be put on this forum? And if so, would it allow for anybody to up-date as a new figure was found?

It has actually been done before with several people taking groups of HL's to watch and feeding the information to one person to enter it into the spreadsheet. A link to the spreadsheet was then posted on the forums. It turned out to be a lot of work I think and faded away at some point.

Sounds like a good idea to me. It would be a lot of work, but I would be interested in helping out. I surf Ebay probably 6 - 7 hours per week on average, so I get some idea of how certain pieces are doing.

It's possible to post an Excel spreadsheet somewhere that those with Excel can read online. It's not possible for anyone to update this on the fly.

One person would have to consolidate any changes and daily post the revised sheet for others to view (in their browser) or download.

There are database programs that could be used online and MAY be able to permit individuals to enter information that gets into the database.

With Excel, you'd want to keep track of ALL completed sales and have Excel find the MIN and MAX, AVERAGE, and MEDIAN values for all the results.

You'd also want to track the dates of sales to see if there is a trend over time for each.

You probably also want to track the sellers and buyers to see if there are people who are skewing the results with a 'price be damned' (buy at any cost) or sellers who sell consistently low.

To try it out, I'd suggest you focus on perhaps 10-12 Limited Editions for 3-4 months.

Greg, most folks only care about prices on the limited editions.

I like your idea, John, to just start with a dozen. I can't manage the whole database from the start. But which dozen? Which lights are still available enough that we can get a good cros-reference? I need suggestions.

I'll start the pilot program after I get the spreadsheet made and the suggestions in.

I would recommend that you start with:
1. Either the first 12 you plan on purchasing next.
2. Or any group of 12 out of the first 49
(The 5500'S). They are usually everybody’s favorite for reviewing the market.
3. The ones I would like see done would be all the lighthouses of either 95 or 96. These have been retired a while and sometimes they show some surprising values.

John, who had the spreadsheet several years ago? Was it Art? If we can find an old link we might not to have to re-invent the whwwl and also have some historical data to compare to today's values.

Here are a some of older threads with info from Art...

Y2K Thread

September, October and November 2000 thread

2001 Thread

The following is some spreadsheet information put together by Tim... Spreadsheet

Thanks Paul. There's some data there to mull over Greg

I've done a bit of scanning of these files, got some ideas. I am going to start with a dozen favourites, and then add new pieces as they are sold every week once I get the hang of it. I am going to figure out how to work with both eBay sales and sales here in the Marketplace. I am going to tinker around with some ideas...will let you know how it works.

I think on your spread sheet you may want to add six columns:
1.original box?
2.no box
3.signed
4.not signed
5.signed and original box
6. not signed and not a original box

Did I get carried away?

Not at all, Daniel, not at all. I wouldn't need the last two though--just check off the appropriate items from the first four.

I want to ask people suggestions for the dozen lights. Please give good reasons why it should be a pilot light. I will choose the dozen with the best reasons.

Thomas point 181- This was an extremely popular light and retired in 30 days. Most were bought before it hit the shelves. Its secondary market value went instantly to $150. The Signature series hurt it’s secondary market value. But I have been curious how its been doing lately on ebay.

Thomas Point was an interesting situation. It was sold out early at a trade show in Atlanta before many dealers had even seen it.

Harbour Lights had to cancel those Atlanta orders and allocate (ration) the piece to dealers.

Part of the reason for the quick sell out was it was a unique kind of lighthouse -- the first 'Screw Pile' by Harbour Lights. It also raised the quality bar compared with previous issues.

A bit earlier, Alcatraz 'sold out' quickly. However the primary reason was because one dealer in San Francisco bought a very large percentage of the entire production run. This was not common knowledge, but created a situation where dealers were worried that if they only ordered 1 or 2 of Thomas Point, they might not get a chance to reorder it and so they upped their initial orders.

Collectors, too, were influenced by the 'sold out before shipping' situation. I know of people who bought a dozen of them. This was at a time when secondary market prices were very high and climbing for rare pieces such as Coquille, Original Cape Hatteras, Burrows Island, and a few others.

Most of these speculators were expecting the Thomas Point prices to climb high and quickly. Later, many of these 'extras' bought by collectors were sold for less than retail when those who bought in large quantities realized it would take a long time to enjoy any significant profit, if any.

The quick sell-outs to dealers, of course, didn't mean that collectors had bought them all. Just that dealers could not purchase any more.

But this apparent demand for their product no doubt encouraged Harbour Lights to increase the edition sizes of limited edition lighthouses.

This WAS a time when the number of collectors was growing, thanks to a growing economy and good levels of disposable incomes for non-essentials like collectibles.

Thomas Point was also very special to Bill Younger; a lighthouse he recalled from his youth while fishing on the Chesapeake with his uncle.

All this takes nothing away from the quality and desireability of Thomas Point. I merely bring these facts up to explain some of the 'mystique' of #181 Thomas Point.

John
I am glad you brought up the History of Thomas Point. Enjoyed reading it. I remember being a new collector in 97 and trying to find a Thomas point from a dealer. I finally resorted To AOL under collectables- lighthouse. I would follow it daily, like watching the stock market. I kept trying to find one reasonable. When I started following it the going price was at $150. Each time I checked it would go up until finally it was as high as $160. This was only AOL. Some Secondary Marketers were getting as high as $200 or more. It was like I was being punished for not buying it right away.

Then something happened on AOL. Like that very day was the turning point for the secondary Market. One collector, Wish I could remember his/her name made a statement that from that day, the market headed down. The collectors words were” What if Harbour lights would start to lose there value?” Nobody ever thought of that happening. Could that be possible? Those very words put doubt in the market and from that point on, Harbours lights in general kept dropping. I bought my Thomas point in 98 for $138 from the collectable exchange.

The dealer from whom I have bought many of my Harbour Lights LHs recently decided to "cut back" on several of his collector's series, including Harbour Lights Lighthouses. He was selling his current stock for up to 50% off the retail price.
Unfortunately, I had already bought the ones he had for sale. He said the Collector's Market was going "south". He said "collecting" has become a dirty word and now it is being called "Home Decor".
Although I renewed my membership in early April, in wasn't until late July that I received by Membership piece. The item I ordered didn't arrive at other Dealer with whom I do business, until July 30th. In fact, they hadn't received the "Membership Display set" to add to their Harbour Light display until just a few days before that. If I was a company interested in attracting new membership or renewal memberships, I would have had the display set in the stores at the beginning of the year 2004.
What is going on with Harbour Lights? Is the value of my collection depreciating?
What do you think?
JoanieO

Yes

In answer to your questions, JoanieO,

Question #1 – Maybe a change in top management

Question #2 – A definite YES

Question #3 – We have to grin and bear it

My dealer is also eliminating Harbour Lights with a 50% price reduction.

Bob

There was probably a problem between Harbour Lights and the dealer. If sales are slow and the dealer isn't ordering, then maybe they didn't want to invest any more funds in HL stock. Therefore, HL wasn't going to send them anything new.

I regret to inform you the value of your collection has depreciated quite a bit since the economy took a dive in 2001. It's not just HL's but other collectibles too. Remember the big Beanie Baby fad? They had an article in a Boston paper about a week ago where one guy had a rather large collection that he paid many dollars for. Some pieces he paid the typical $5-$6 for while others he paid a rather hefty premium price. Now he can't get 50 cents a piece for them, according to the article.

There are two groups of people who are at fault for the decreasing values of HL's. Those two are the sellers and the buyers. You can go on eBay and see sellers offering HL's for far below retail. Many are practicing "dealer dumping". You also see potential buyers bidding ever so conservatively because they want a real bargain.

Buyers don't want to pay what an item is worth. Sellers just want to get rid of their pieces and are willing to let them go at bargain prices. The actions of those two groups reduce the overall worth of every piece that sits in our closets and curios and there's not a thing we can do about it. Sad, but true!

I'm on autoship and pay retail for each piece I receive from my dealer. I must be a fool because I could buy the very same pieces, without my reserved number, for far less on eBay. You know what? I'll keep those pieces coming from my dealer.

Bob

So will I, Bob. So will I.

Bob

Thank you to all of you who responded to my questions about my HL collection. I still will buy my selections from my local dealer, too. I am a computer novice and I have never been on ebay and wouldn't know how to "make a deal" on ebay if I did go on it.
Well, I didn't buy my lighthouses to "make a killing." I bought them for my own pleasure and enjoyment, particularly the New York and Florida lighthouses.
Thanks again. Joanie O

Bob, You speak so well about my feelings on HL's. I think the value is in my having them. I also pay retail for everything that I get these days, but did pay some premium prices for those I didn't have and couldn't find. BUt you what, I'm very happy to have them and wouldn't part with them.

Thanks for your wonderful article above. You said it all.

Bert

Dick,

Here is one. It might be what you are looking for. Just bringing it to the top.

bobo

Well, I'm sick and stuck at home, so I figured I'd work on this. I'm going to start tracking 12 LEs over a course of a few months. I need suggestions for these LEs, however...I will start a seperate thread for it.

I am thinking of doing an Excel sheet that I can then convert into HTML and upload. The sheet will have:

Piece name
HL Number
Year of production
Current/Retired?
Edition Size
Edition #
Low Price over last 6 months
High Price over last 6 months
Median price, with a stock-ticker style arrow system to denote whether it went up or down
How much change since last update
Seller of each piece


That's alot, but half of it doesn't need to change. I'm not sure about counting buy it nows, as they usually go for less than value, and do not reflect the true market.

That's the plan...now let's see if it works!

Greg,

I like your breakdown, with a couple of exceptions:

This should NOT be included. What difference does it make who sells it? And more importantly, who cares? Plus, if I were the seller, I would be mighty PO'd.

Also, why not 12 months in each direction instead of 6? That would give a move representative sample over a year's timeframe.

bobo

This is why I put the seller info in there. In case I have to remove their specific entries from the average, as they are skewing it. Come to think of it, this could probably be accomplished simly by not using the especially low selling prices.