Hello,

I imagine this is old news to everyone, but I can't get over how little money it takes to buy harbour lights these days, especially on ebay. It seems that very few of the 9500 pieces and beyond will even hold their retail value, and some, like brant point and chatham, will rarely go for more than around $35. I like to be optimistic, but is it realistic to think that the majority of the 9500 pieces will ever rebound to reach values that we used to see for the 5500s?

Jon

The models in the 5500 series really made HL's reputation in the market place. The models were (still are) easily the finest around. HL saw their impact on the secondary market and said 'hey we want a big slice of that pie' - unfortunately they overestimated demand. At first their move seemed to be confirmed as the release of novel pieces such as Thomas Point and Alcatraz did very well. The fact that many of these were bought by speculators wasn't immediately apparent. Many dealers (HL's *real* customer) were swept along as they too bought into post-peak down-trough.

The 9.5 and 10k edition series basically doubled the supply in the face of a demand that was not doubled. Collectibility (demand) is as much a function of scarcity as aesthetic appeal. It was easy to find models in these series. Still is. The lack of demand is keeping the secondary price down - as long as demand is low so prices will remain.

HL also diluted the uniqueness of their Limited Editions by making an un-limited but equally appealing line of models at a slightly lower price. One of my pet theories is that there are only so many dollars available to be spent on lighthouse models - every dollar spent on a GLOW or Little Light is a dollar not spent on something else - such as an LE. Thus a double whammy on the factors that sustained rising secondary prices - mass production with lower pricing and increased supply.

I doubt none of this bothers HL. If they could convince dealers to buy, the sale was made. It took a while for the marketplace and Collectors to figure out what was going on. By then the Golden Goose was cooked. The lower edition sizes of today are as much a response to reduced dealer demand as anything else. Sadly the impact has been felt across the entire line as evidenced by falling prices for previously 'untouchable' 5500 series models.

Many people continue to suggest ways to increase the number of collectors. Interest in lighthouses seems to wax and wane. But even an uptick in interest is unlikely to reinvigorate the marketplace for Limited Editions. The demise of uniqueness (GLOWs/LLs) is likely the knock-out blow. While many people pooh-pooh the value of market appreciation, I believe that without the prospects for increasing secondary value there will never be an influx of new Limited Edition collectors sufficient to absorb the current glut. Sort of a chicken and egg situation now.

Lot's more can be said on this topic and we've said alot already. Many discussions in the FSB on these issues. I would not let this thwart you from snapping up bargains as you find them. But I figure the 9.5k line will always be easy to find. Depends in part on what you want. If you're interested in building a Collection, I'd forgo purchases of 9500 & 10000 models and buy into the 5500 series, piece by piece. There is still some challenge in building a nice 5500 Collection and prices there couldn't be better.

T

I have to agree with you, Tim. Thinking on a positive note, this is a great time for a new collector to get into HLs. One can build quite a collection for about half it cost for the same amount of pieces a few years ago.

Like the "T.J. Max" commercial states, "Get the max for the miniumum!" Seek out and buy every deal you can find. The deals will eventually dry up when the inventories disappear. Maybe then prices will stabilize and return more to their norm. Don't hold your breath on this but things will change in the future.

Bob

I agree Bob, I started collecting this past May and so far have 83 pieces between glows and LE's mostly from E-bay at prices like 10.00 for a Old Point Loma #A214 to 53.00 for a Long beach Bar #3822. It is truely the time to start a Harbour Lights Collection, I just hope they start turning upward. Ron

83 pieces since May is very impressive. The prices you paid seem to be very reasonable. Right now eBay is a great way to go if you watch carefully for the deals. Loads of stuff being dumped on eBay by dealers and collectors alike.]

Bert

To HL Dealers: Sorry you have to resort to putting your excess HLs (and other collectibles) on eBay. I don't think anyone really saw the economy going down the shute before 9-11-01. I realize you need to move product and will do what you have to do to survive.

To eBay bidders: Grab them while you can! The bargains won't last forever!

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

Bob, You're absolutley right. There are some great bargains to be had on eBay and on the forums. If there is something you want, go for it. I've missed a few lately because I forgot about them until it was too late.

Bert

I have set a $21.00 ceiling for myself on ebay purchases of HK LE's, excluding shipping, for the past three months. Of course many of them are the 10,000 and 9,500 issue pieces, but not all. To date, I have acquired twelve LE pieces within my criterion and five of them are 5500's. I'll say this is an excellent opportunity to grow duplicates for my collection!! How long will it last?? One never knows, does one. Otherwise, we would all be "living the keeper's life".

Not in our lifetimes. In 75 years when they are real antiques, maybe?

Absoulutely!!! The LLs might be a stretch. Personally there are two things that have cooled my interest in Harbour Lights, GLOWs and the link removal for this website from the Harbour Lights site. Two bad customer service decisions imho. Oh and don't forget the 9,000 and up models, another stinker. But hey, I am basking in hindsight.

>>...the link removal for this website from the Harbour Lights site.<<

HL public relations is probably disinclined to send people to a Web site where they might read seditious remarks like the ones in the above message. LOL!

T

LOL, your probably right, spicy remarks but you will never find a more dedicated Harbour Lights Collector. You got to keep poking them in the ribs to remind them they got their start as a Collectibles Manufacturer.

Ah yes, even in the AOL days, there was much discussion around this topic, including some ideas that eventually HLs would run out of new lighthouses to sculpt into LEs. Along with GLOWs, maybe the dwindling number of lights that are yet to be done from some key states could be a factor.

How many lights are left for North Carolina, South Carolina, New Jersey and Florida? These four states have had a large and active collector community. I think that there is one extant lighthouse in NC that HLs has not released. At least one in SC, at most two or three. After the FIVE new Florida releases in early 2003 I think there are only three mainland towers left, Crooked River, Cape San Blas and Boca Grande Rear Range. They are all steel skeleton towers, much like Anclote Key or Hillsboro. The rest are off the Keys. Maybe six or so left for FL. NJ has a few, but HLs has already dipped into history for NJ lights with Tucker's Island and FL lights with Old St. Augustine.

With the specialization of collections to regions, states, lighthouses visited, etc, not having fresh releases, for collectors with specialized collections or potential new collectors, could add further to the malaise that is HL collecting today.

Or maybe it won't. It's fun to speculate though.

Rick

Rick, I have been trying to reach you for months. Send me some email when you get the chance.

There are at least two lighthouses in South Carolina that are still standing that Harbour Lights has yet to make. The only "real" one on Hilton Head and of course my local lighthouse, Georgetown.

Hiya Rick....

...Glad to see they finally got that electricity hooked up down in Weeki Wachee so you could join us again!!!

Hope all is well with you and Linda.

Early Christmas present John! Sean and Rick rise up like the Phoenix to give us some historical views and trend setter opinions. Glad you guys are back!
Bob

Hello Sean, John, Bob and everyone else. Thanks for the hearty welcome back. Yes, the electricity is on in Weeki Wachee and the new homestead, Alligator Gables, is finally done. I'll try to be a little more visible now that we're settled in.

Rick

Weeki Wachee!!! I know where that's at - you are less than 15 minutes from me! Do I know you? Have we met? Are you a member of the Florida Lighthouse Association or the Tampa Bay Harbour Lights Collector's Club? It's great to know there are more lighthouse lovers and collectors in my neck of the woods! If you get a chance Rick & Linda, email me sometime - I would love to hear from you!