Artist's Proofs
#143005
08/29/06 11:32 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
5lights
OP
Super Wacko
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OP
Super Wacko
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415 |
Can anyone tell me please, how desireable it is to have an artist's proof? How many of these were done per piece? Would the value be more?
Debbie
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143006
08/29/06 12:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 13,047
Webmaster
Saint
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Saint
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 13,047 |
Here's probably more than you're asking for, but I responded to someone in an email who was asking about a particular AP and so had something prepared: After a lighthouse is sculpted in wax, either the artist or a different person will make a mold and do two castings from that mold. An origination painter then paints the two pieces identically.
These "paint samples" usually do not have any bottom felt. And the ones I have seen have had the words "paint sample" hand-written on the bottom of them.
One of these two is sent to the factory and the other is retained by Harbour Lights.
The factory then paints up a few pieces following the one paint sample they were sent and ships these samples back to Harbour Lights for approval. They do have the bottom felt. At Harbour Lights, they compare the factory painted samples with the artist painted sample they retained.
If they approve it, they can simply communicate with the factory to proceed or give them instructions on how to change the piece.
If they are approved these early sample become the Artists Proofs shipped out to showrooms. If the changes are relatively minor, the pieces may still be sent out as APs.
In the early years, pieces were ordered, cast and painted in smaller quantities than in the mid 1990s and probably up to the present day. Initial order quantities might have been 2,000 or 3,000.
The Malaysian and Chinese factories were much better with painting consistency than was Castle Studios which used home-based painters.
I do know that some unnumbered pieces are made and these may end up marked as "AP" when they need to generate another one.
In the early years, APs were not numbered. But the showrooms told the Youngers that an unnumbered piece could be more valuable than one marked as "AP" because it could be numbered by the recipient as anything they wanted it to be.
So HL began to mark them as "AP" on the flag.
Up until this year, any rep group that had a showroom would get a set of APs of each release batch from Harbour Lights. If they didn't have a showroom, they didn't get APs. That meant that the number of APs made for each piece was usually about 12 - maybe as high as 15 for peak years when there were more rep groups.
Some pieces such as the Collectors Society pieces and the Event editions (Reunion, Store, Regional) are not chosen by dealers to carry; the company makes what it wants, so they do not need to have APs made for showrooms. Only 3-4 APs may be made of these pieces.
Under Lighthouse Marketing, many fewer pieces are marked "AP". Rep groups will get a regular production piece of the editions for their showrooms and IF a lighthouse is released from their area -- for example Galveston TX for the TX rep group, they will get an AP of that one only.
Kim told me long ago that once the rep has the APs they were free to do whatever they wanted to with them after the introduction period was over.
They may have retained the AP in the showroom until it retired, or until the next batch was released. A few of the reps kept them as their personal collection. Others gave them to a store or event as a drawing prize or auction item.
Typically if there is a modification made on a piece, the APs which are the first ones made by the factory will have the more rare version.
For example, all of the Grand Haven MI LEs sent to reps as APs had the roof painted red. The Old Field Point NY pieces had the original metal tree and way back in the early years, the APs of Split Rock were "MI", later corrected to "MN".
APs are relatively rare and it would be nice to have one in a personal collection, IMO. They generally carry a premium and still should, in my opinion.
The number of APs is in addition to the planned edition size.
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143007
08/29/06 01:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 8,949
WackoPaul
Saint
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Saint
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 8,949 |
One correction, John, the paint samples do have felt on them (now) at least the ones I now have, are with felt on the bottom.. One of my most prized Harbour Lights in my collection is a paint sample of the White Hull AB118 USCGC Icebreaker Mackinaw, it has felt on the bottom...
Onward to The Land of the Midnight Sun!
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143008
08/29/06 01:49 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,349
Lighthouser
Cruise Director
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Cruise Director
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,349 |
What a prize Paul! Wow! Sound's like the ultimate prize to me.
I have one AP, and it's only the GLOW version of Thomas Point, but I'm pleased to have it. It has the green felt bottom.
Judy
Judy
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143009
08/29/06 02:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 13,047
Webmaster
Saint
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Saint
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 13,047 |
Thanks, Paul. I've added a weasel qualifier to my first post "usually".
"Never say 'never'"
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143010
08/29/06 04:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,801
rscroope
Saint
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Saint
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,801 |
The 'Old Field' I beleive is a 'one of a kind' with bare tree. If it's not, and someone has one to sell reasonably....
LONG ISLAND BOB
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143011
08/29/06 07:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 13,047
Webmaster
Saint
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Saint
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 13,047 |
All the APs sent to the Rep showrooms had the metal tree as far as I know, Bob. You know something else?
Let us know.
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143012
08/29/06 08:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 8,949
WackoPaul
Saint
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Saint
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 8,949 |
I don't think all of the metal tree version AP's are out there but I know there are more than 'one of a kind'... I missed out on one by 24 hours one time and have seen two others, not mine either, darn it!
Onward to The Land of the Midnight Sun!
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143013
08/29/06 10:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 221
silverfox51
Wacko
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Wacko
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 221 |
I've been noticing lately there seem to be quite a number of APs on Ebay. Wonder why? And Paul, have you been watching them? Been watching to see how much they go for.
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143014
08/30/06 11:01 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
5lights
OP
Super Wacko
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OP
Super Wacko
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415 |
Thank you John for the very nice and detailed expaination! I knew what an artist's proof was but didn't realize they were out there until I too saw them listed on ebay. That got me to wondering.... now I know. Hopefully some day- I can add at least one to my collection!
Debbie
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143015
08/30/06 11:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,801
rscroope
Saint
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Saint
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,801 |
These are my recollections - no proof. I thought I read somewhere (here/ Legacy) that all the tree "OF' were recalled and the trees were destroyed. There was, I believe one auctioned off at Providence Reunion???? And a tree alone auctioned someplace else(Baltimore)??? That doesn't mean that Bill doesn't have 1-10 in storage someplace. I always wanted a bare tree because that's the way it is, not with a big pine. It's my closest lighthouse. Bob
LONG ISLAND BOB
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143016
08/30/06 11:23 AM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,801
rscroope
Saint
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Saint
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,801 |
LONG ISLAND BOB
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143017
08/30/06 11:42 AM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,801
rscroope
Saint
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Saint
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,801 |
Here's any earlier response to 5lights question. 1/10/2000
LONG ISLAND BOB
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143018
08/30/06 04:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
5lights
OP
Super Wacko
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OP
Super Wacko
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415 |
Thanks for that information also, Bob. I'm getting quite an education!
Debbie
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143019
08/30/06 07:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 107
KEWEENAW
Wacko
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Wacko
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 107 |
Bob,
The Old Field with pewter tree is definitely out there, I have one!
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143020
08/30/06 10:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
5lights
OP
Super Wacko
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OP
Super Wacko
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415 |
Does anyone have pictures?
Debbie
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143021
09/02/06 03:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 107
KEWEENAW
Wacko
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Wacko
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 107 |
No, I dont have any pics of mine, but you can go to HarbourLights.com, and look up Old Field Point under retired products. On that page, near the bottom, they show a few pictures from different angles of the pewter tree along with an explanation of what happened.
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143022
09/02/06 06:23 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
5lights
OP
Super Wacko
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OP
Super Wacko
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415 |
Thanks Keweenaw...I'll check it out!
Debbie
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143023
09/03/06 08:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,904
beachcomber
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,904 |
I've learned a whole lot from John and others who are very generous with replies when a CF member needs help. John gives such thorough answers. Aren't they all great, Debbie?!
beachcomber
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143024
09/06/06 11:45 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
5lights
OP
Super Wacko
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OP
Super Wacko
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415 |
I agree Grace! There so many knowledgeable people here that are so willing to help you learn and find the answers that you are looking for!! John does give very thoroughly great answers! A BIG thanks to everyone that are very generous with their great answers!!
Debbie
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143025
09/09/06 06:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 155
Jim Awrey
Member
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Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 155 |
Sometimes you can stumble onto an AP with dumb luck.
About 3 years ago, I was Christmas shopping in Freeport, ME at a Christmas store that had been a Harbour Lights dealer, but was getting rid of the line. They only had a few local "limiteds" remaining on the shelf, but next to them was an artist's proof of West Quoddy (HL103). It became mine for $29.
As John mentioned above, there was no AP written on the piece yet.
Jim
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143026
09/09/06 08:18 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
5lights
OP
Super Wacko
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OP
Super Wacko
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415 |
I'll keep that in mind! How forunate for you...I wish that I could be that lucky!!!!
Debbie
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143027
09/09/06 09:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 7,893
Dave H
Saint
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Saint
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Posts: 7,893 |
Great find, Jim. Hope you felt guilty about "stealing" that one!
(tic, of course)
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143028
09/11/06 04:09 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
5lights
OP
Super Wacko
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OP
Super Wacko
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415 |
I'd feel guilty! For about a minute and then I'd be jumping up and down in celebration of such a deal!!!!!
Debbie
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143029
09/11/06 05:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,561
HCS
Super Wacko
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Super Wacko
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,561 |
No need to feel guitly Jim. You were just in the right place at the right time. Some things are just meant to be! HCS
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Re: Artist's Proofs
#143030
09/11/06 08:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,904
beachcomber
Member
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Member
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Posts: 2,904 |
That's pretty awesome, Jim. The AP's are very special and it is too bad that some are being sold as if they have little value. Of course, it's pretty terrific when you are the buyer and can get a good deal!
beachcomber
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