To read the first 50 posts......
Part One

How about that Stonington listed at $275.00 on ebay? Don't break your fingers gettting over there to bid on it.

Yikes - 333 postings on eBay as of 1pm today!


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Ken T

I saw the 333 posts of HLs on eBay this afternoon. I don't recall that many ever before. Maybe that number might even increase with the holiday season coming up.

Bob

In response to a post at the end of Part 1 -

I believe that Ebay does have a filter in place to edit postings. I am not sure what words or phrases it searches for or what happens when the filter finds these words.
Most of the time I think Ebay pulls the items only if enough people complain. How the complaints get through to Ebay is another matter. Everytime I have tried to ask a question or make a suggestion I never receive a response.

Jim

I sent an e-mail to e-bay this morning complaining that when you look at closed auctions of HL's you don't see anything past 10/31. I received an automated response that said they would try to answer in 24 hours. Will keep you posted on reply.
Jim

I thought 333 was high...I just left eBay and it's up to 339. People are posting faster than auctions are ending. Lots of zero bids though.

Bob

Maybe since the market has been a little lower than hoped for by some sellers, they have not posted new auctions hoping that the closer it gets to the holidays, the better the bids.

Joanne

Personally, as a Seller and Buyer on the EBay Auction; I hate to see the Market Value of Harbour Lights to down. Thou, it would still not change my mind to stop collecting!
Once you are hooked on Harbour Lights Lighthouses, you are just hooked! I believe, I got Harbouri-d-e-s-t!
Because i-e-d-s-t don't know, when to quit!
Karen :-)

I sure do not know what's going on at Ebay. I have had problems accessing the site all week. Response time to display anything is over 20 seconds. Pages do not fully display.
Pages not available.

I have decided that any HLs I purchase in the future will be from authorized dealers or through 'The Marketplace'. When I did bid on anything (HLs and non-HL items) on Ebay in the past few weeks, I always was outbid by 30-50 cents in the last few seconds of the auctions. Some of these snipers had not placed any other bids. They just waited until the last seconds to place their bids so they would be sure to win. I am tired of being sniped so often, so I am no longer using Ebay. Auctions seem to be a waste of time right now.

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Jim

Dr. Who ?

Well Jim, it seems you have discovered the strategy which most likely guarantees your success in winning an ebay auction for the lowest price. The price one pays for such success is a "sniper's" need to follow auctions closely, bookmark auctions of interest and know the times an auction end...and of course be near a computer at that time!
I believe the Amazon auctions had the policy that if a bid is placed within the last hour of an auction, it automatically extend the auction by one hour.

Doc John

Up, UP and Away! Ebay now has 383 HL's as of today. I guess everyone clearing their shelves for Christmas.

Rusty

So many HL postings on E-BAY ?????? this can not be a good thing for secondary values knowing that many E-BAY HL prices often do not reflect a correct market value. I will stay with local dealers and reputable(sp) secondary market dealers like Dee Brandt and
Mr. Rutherford or the Marketplace.

Lonnie

Lonnie,

I see your point, but I've been watching the 5500's and it seems that these are very busy auctions. I noticed with the scare that these are becoming harder to find, the price is starting to escalate quickly. I still can't believe that a Tybee ( my next quest after the holidays) has two still at auction, one going for 107.00 and one going for 250.00 three days later. It really makes no sense.

IMO, e-Bay HL prices are themselves an important component in the "correct" market value. I think prices are lower in part because the market is made more efficient by e-Bay; the matching of buyers and sellers is made easier. I think that if the mean price of an item on e-Bay remains significantly lower than it does from more traditional sources, then e-Bay will utimately replace those traditional sources unless they are willing to match the mean e-Bay price. The buyers will go to where the best price is, but it ain't all good.

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-Art

Youngone,

It is for that very price difference that I find secondary market dealers etc. more reliable as they all tend to sell around the same price point for any given light unless there are quality considerations. I recently
baught a Thomas Point from Dee Brandt for 130.00 and to my surprise it was signed by Bill Younger in 1996 !! . OK a little higher than marketplace but I am very happy with it.

Lonnie

Hi Lonnie, ...Some one correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most secondary market dealers that sell other people's HLs usually add 30% to the asking price to cover their expenses. I think you got a good deal on your purchase at $130. If my assumption is correct, the previous owner received $100 from Dee. Dee is happy, you're happy, and obviously the original owner wanted to sell it so he or she must be happy.

Isn't that special!

Bob

BobM,

Correct Bob, but the system does help prevent some of the "deals" problems that have been experienced on E-BAY .

Lonnie

Hi Dr. Who (Jim)

The way to avoid being sniped is by putting in your maximum bid. I put in my maximum bid right away. If someone is willing to pay more than I am, even if it's 50 cents, that's their good fortune. I've noticed on a few of my winning auctions, that in the last minute or so someone put in a bid, but my maximum kicked in and I won the auctions. Sometimes, I was outbid and lost. That's what makes ebay fun to me. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose.

Joanne

It is still on the way up! Checked Ebay this morning, and it is at a whopping 486 items for sale. I guess dealers are trying to empty their shelves for Christmas stuff. Many of the pieces are still with no bids. ONE problem is most of them have starting bids at retail prices.

Rusty

I would say those pieces offered on eBay at a starting bid of the retail price are not an auction but instead an inexpensive 25 cent Internet ad.

Bob

As you reply to an existing thread, please select the "Post Rely" button. If you see a space to fill in labeled "Subject", you've clicked on the wrong button. Just click on your browser's BACK button and choose the correct button.

Cruise Directors will close a long thread and start a new one when it reaches about 50 posts. This is to keep the loading time short.

Thanks,

John

Checked Ebay, and now at a whopping 525!

Rusty

And for those looking for the elusive Burrows Island OR, they have one listed on e-bay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=199561785
Jim
Johnson

525 on Ebay! I wonder how much time it takes to get the money from a loan on a 401K plan? LOL

Joanne

OK, so there's 525 HLs on ebay.

How many of these are not retired items?

Somebody check next week and tell me how many of them sold at auction.

And how many sellers are there for those 525? How many of those sellers are retailers? How many are known secondary dealers?

Ebay reflects discounted clearing prices for most pieces, even for some of the less popular 5,500 (Castle Hill, Portland Breakwater). If you have a truly rare and desirable HL LE, and you are active in the hobby, chances are you would be able to place your HL with a buyer through your own HL (fellow collectors and favorite dealer)network. Of all 300 to 500 HLs listed on eBay, how many Cape Hatteras, Portland Head, and Coquille River do you see!
Len Ariagno

I'd say that about 20 to 25% of the listings on ebay are for the hard to find items. The rest are for the easier to find items, but you may find a bargain on them. This allos you to be able to afford to obtain more items, and so this is a good thing. The more the merrier. Dennis

Like I've always said, avoid items with starting bids so close to retail you might as well go to your local dealer, look for items with no reserve, look for sellers with plenty of positive feedback, and bid low. If you get a bargain than your efforts are well worth it. Remember, there is always a risk of damage in shipping. It does happen so make sure your purchase will be insured.

Bob

What's going on?
I have been reading various comments about the EBay Auction and I just can't believe the number of listing for Harbour Lights Lighthouses.
Most of the pricing is below Retail Prices! But, I have noticed several Retired Limited Editions selling at a considerably low price
It has been very difficult to access the EBay Auction! Their system has slowed down to almost a crawl and a pause or wait between pages!
Because,I wasn't using the EBay Auction, last year at this time; I have no idea; if this a repeat of last years Holiday Season!
I was quite surprised to get this EMail from a dealer!
It was just brought to my attention that there are a couple of Harbour Lights dealers out there (mostly on ebay) offering 30% off retail prices, now, I'm not telling you this to push your business away and to go to them.
I am acutally telling you this for some advice...
I am very disappointed that I am told by Harbour Lights that I cannot discount their product or they will stop selling to me and yet other dealers do it with no problems.
So my question is should I follow suit and offer you (my fellow collectors) the 30% discount?, or should I just do nothing?
Your opinion would be greatly appreciated.
XXXX


Karen
GolfHarbor@aol.com

Do you sign an agreement with Harbour Lights when you take on their product? This is really a question of business ethics. First, are you losing huge numbers of sales to Ebay? Second, are all these "discounted" Harbour Lights on Ebay being sold by Dealers? I don't believe it. Most appear to be individuals wanting to deal in cash only. These could be one of the fellow collectors that took a chance at speculation and now are stuck with a garage of too many seconds, thirds and fourths. They may be at the point where they want to cut their losses and have some cash back in their hands. There are plenty of other incentives that Dealers do for their customers before their inventories get dusty without having to offer across the board discounts on an entire Collectibles line. If you discount Harbour Lights across the board in your shop you will make your current buyers happy. Do you think this will muster up new and future repeat buyers? I think not. In the long term what you have done by discounting is make Harbour Lights look like a Collectible that is on the decline and not worth investing in. Yes, regardless of your motivations for buying a collectible you are still making an investment with your money. Once that Collectible Line begins to look weak in your market its going to be hard to reverse it. Offer your buyers incentives that will spark good relations and repeat buying without taking down the good name of a still strong and great collectible line??

imho



[This message has been edited by SThompson (edited 11-21-99).]

Karen

I think that Sean has it correct .

Lonnie

I too agree with Sean. It's unethical not to honor your agreement with HL. If a dealer does, it will come back to 'bite' them.

"What goes around comes around."

Well said, Sean.

Good grief, There were some great deals had on ebay over the weekend. I thought getting closer to Xmas prices would go up. Due to the glut of items on ebay there have been some great prices lately.

Those of you looking for a few older pieces make sure to look under Harbor Lights (no u). There are three out there going to close in 2 days and are at $49 (one is New London Ledge).

Joanne

Discounting Harbour Lights!
I want to thank each an everyone of you that replied to my post! Personally, when I first received the EMail, I ignored it! But, days later, I received another from the same person! Then, it became a nuisance and felt I needed to get others opinions! So the best source of opinions, would be from other Harbour Lights Collectors! I never responded to him, but, felt I needed to address the issue with others!
Personally, I am hoping, that if this person approached others. He will be ignored by them as well!
Thank you for your input and comments!
Karen :-)

Rusty,
In the past months, I have been buying Harbour Lights from the EBay Auction to get Lower Flag Numbers! But, during that process of buying, I was not selling the Old for the New but only buying the New Lower Flag Numbers! So, I have quite a Collection of Harbour Lights Duplicates!
When I looked at EBay this past month, I knew maybe others did the same and/or was hoping to make money, during the Holidays!
Personally, I did not plan on making money over the Holidays but, was hoping to sell them!
With the number of posting on EBay and the variety of pieces, then so many auctions ending with no bids? I would say, maybe the Christmas Shopper started shopping early this year!
Just guessing from past years and the US Post Office overload during the Holidays! That, EBay's being the source for Christmas Shoppers! That the Time to Buy would be Now! But, then EBay has a Buyers Market of Merchandise, the right Prices, but not enough Buyers!
Karen

Well this won't be the first time in my life that I am a minority of one. I guess I march to a different drummer.

First, I cannot agree with the consensus that the seller who is offering a reduced price is wrong. If all the facts were stated, it would be noted that he does sell at the suggested retail price in his store, but will offer a discount through internet service, if the buyer asks for the discount (it is 20 percent not 30) He did not change the amount since his customers all stated they were satisfied with 20 percent. There is still the shipping to pay. What is the difference if he offers a reduced price on internet or if the collectible store down the street offers you a $10 bonus certificate for every $50 you buy? One way or the other, Younger and Associates gets their full wholesale price, but the retailer is taken a lower profit margin on the retail. If I, as a consumer, am able to get a better deal then why shouldn't I take it? Why be forced to always deal with the same store in order to accumulate the bonus certificates? Or what about those dealer that ship free if you spend $50? They are giving you basically at 10 to 15% discount right there by not paying shipping.

It seems to me that the people who are most concerned about the prices of Harbour Lights are those who sell as a side line. As a collector of HL I have no intention of ever selling my collection (hopefully no unforeseen bad circumstances), and my goal is buying them at the lowest price that I can. I am not in a situation where I have $100 to spend easily. If I can get it for $85, then better for me.

A lot of you may think that I am wrong but that's life when you're a single income working woman. I rather have the extra dollar in my pocket than someone else's.

But, as I said that dealer is very nice, does sell at regular price in his store and is losing business through other internet sources. I thought free enterprise was the backbone of this country. Would you prefer that he go out of business?

I hope this doesn't force him to change his internet policy. There are at least two other website where I've seen Swarovski Crystal and Lladro pieces at 20% off if ordered through the internet.

As far as ebay is concerned, you bet there are lots of retailers selling HL's on there. I have done repeated business with three, all of which were stores.

Joanne


[This message has been edited by Joanne (edited 11-24-99).]

Joanne, here's one collector that agrees with you 100%...You go girl!!!

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Chuck

Joanne, there is another aspect to consider, i.e., all of these dealers signed a contract with Harbour Lights promising not to sell the lighthouses below retail. I still believe people should keep their word or a contract that they freely signed. When they signed they agreed to the rules that were included in the contact. These discounting dealers are hurting the dealers who are keeping their word and honoring their contracts. I can't support discounting dealers; several of these dealers are just dumping stock to turn it over quickly, a littler profit on more stock.

I have never bought a Harbour Lights Lighthouse at a discount because I know that they are not honoring their contract and therefore they are not honoring their word.
I now buy one of every lighthouse from my dealer automatically. I have never asked for a discount on the lighthouses nor has she offered one. I respect her for that.

SaintWackoPaul '
Keep the Flame

I have to take Joannes side on this one. As a retailor, I'm very aware of what goes on in the industry. Everyday an item sits in inventory, it costs the seller money. There is floor space, environmentals, taxes, etc. So, if an item sits around long enough, it actually is to the benefit of the dealer to sell at a price less then what they paid for it. Hopefully, a good marketer won't allow this to happen to them. Thats why they have sales. IMHO, everyone should be allowed to recover whatever they possibly can on a sale, in other words, what is fair to both the seller and the buyer. As Joanne mentioned, HL got their price. If a retailer sells at a reduced price, clears inventory, and is then able to order more HLs, isn't that better for them then if they have to hold on to an item, can't sel them, and then goes out of business? I think so. Just my opinion.

So what you are saying is that even though you have a signed contract with Harbour Lights not to sell at a discount, you would any way?

Saint WackoPaul '
Keep the Flame

Without actually seeing the wording in the contract, I can't say. It's hard to imagine though that there isn't anything in there allowing a dealer to liquidate.

Harbour Lights has offered to buy back the stock in the past, if these dealers are liquidating as you call it, they are no longer going to be a Harbour Lights dealer.

Most of these dealers that are on eBay discounting Harbour Lights lighthouses are not getting rid of old stock but are even discounting brand new arrivals. This is absolutely against the contract.


Saint WackoPaul '
Keep the Flame

Well as usual there is at least two sides to every story. I agree with Joanne 100% about getting the best deal you can for your money. I also agree with Paul that if a dealer signs a contract to sell HL's at retail then he should abide by it. BUT Harbour Lights should take action against the dealers that are discounting the line on the internet. I would guess that their reasoning of having a contract so worded would be to keep the value of the line up. It does no good unless it is enforced. Also what is their policy toward dealers that also sell at secondary prices?

But what if the contract entails that you will only sell at the retail price in your store? This is what is being done with most of the internet sales. So, in some stores you get the bonus incentive, and can buy a HL piece that retails for $80 for $60 because you have two $10 gift certificates for spending $100 is okay? To me it's the same darn thing except as a consumer I am being forced to purchase from the same dealer. Does the contract also mean that a 20% off sale in a store is not allowed. Because then I know a store that discounts 20% on Thanksgiving and 10% the whole month of July. Most of the collectible lines work in this way but the policies need to be looked at. I could go on the internet and buy a Lladro, Charming Tails, Armani or any other line I choose at 20 percent off, plus no tax. I think these people are honoring their contracts as they are probably written. But, again, the amount I am able to spend determines my ability to buy.

As far as Harbour Lights buying back the stock, well then that is a loss for the dealer. If a piece is $38.00 at wholesale and it retails at $76.00 but is sold at $60, then the store covers it's expenses as far as inventory space, salaries, lighting, and a decent profit margin. If it returns the piece after 16 months and gets back it's original $38.00 then I believe it has taken a huge loss.

Joanne

You're absolutely right, Joanne!

Bob

I asked the question "So what you are saying is that even though you have a signed contract with Harbour Lights not to sell at a discount, you would any way?" in an earlier post and have yet to see an answer to that question.

Maybe I am being way to naïve still believing that ethics are very important.

Saint WackoPaul '
Keep the Flame

Ethics *are* still important, Paul, at least to me. The appearance that "everyone else is doing it" is not justification, in my mind, for a retailer to cheat on or to find loopholes in a contract.

Now let's take this moral question one step further: Does a person who knowingly buys a piece from a retailer in breach of contract share in the responsibility for the unethical act?

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-Art

Who loses when a dealer discounts?

Other dealers who are willing to abide by the contract they signed.

The discounting dealer - who will earn less on each piece.

Other collectors who paid the "Suggested Retail" because they believed that all dealers offered the same pieces at about the same price.

Why might a dealer be discounting?
1. Unsaleable product - a Jupiter with a broken fence. (Happened to me)
2. Going out of business - cashing in the inventory
3. Not carrying the line anymore - for whatever reason.
4. To gain a greater market share of an item that is limited. This market share gain is at the expense of other dealers.
5. Reducing inventory - move items that are slow sellers.
6. To reward the best customers.

In many stores its not the "same thing". Many stores may offer you these savings for being what I call a "good dependable customer". These "certificates" would be earned for any collectible that you purchase in the store allowing you to apply them to any collectible you wish. (1) This would intern rotate the stock without falsely implying the collectible is suffering. (2) It gives the "good dependable customer" a break on cost. (3) Its a win win situation as I see it. The Collectible remains appealing, the Dealer makes a reasonable profit, the Dealer's inventory of all collectibles continues to rotate, the buyer saves some money, and last but not least your Dealer knows you as a "good dependable customer" and they look out for you. If they don't well your certainly not forced to deal with that dealer. If all of my above objectives are met, should you feel that you are being forced to deal with a dealer? I guess so, but whats the problem if you are? As I said its a win win scenario.



[This message has been edited by SThompson (edited 11-29-99).]

To read the first 50 posts......
Part One

Continued in Part Three

To read the first 50 posts......
Part Three