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Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125220 01/18/06 08:39 PM
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Dave H Offline OP
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Here is the information everyone is waiting for concerning the June trip to the Tidewater area of Virginia.

Date: June 24-25, 2006 (weekend after Father’s Day, before Independence Day)

Location: Portsmouth VA

Please remember that as is always the case, changes may happen for a variety of reasons, such as bad weather or a change in ability to visit the land based sites, all of which are on military bases.

Saturday: Lighthouse viewing cruise. After departing the docks we will travel past Old and New Cape Henry before turning east towards the Chesapeake Light Tower. The Chesapeake Tower is one of the most difficult lights to view since it is about 13 miles off shore. Next would be Cape Charles, then past Thimble Shoals, Old Point Comfort and finally Newport News Middle Ground. The boat will put us ashore next to our hotel. This is an all day cruise. We will leave the hotel at about 0700 to bus to the marina in Virginia Beach. Lunch, beverages and snacks will be included.

Saturday evening: Buffet dinner at the hotel for all participants (included in registration fee) Late news is that the dinner will also probably be a Harbour Lights Regional Event. Nothing fancy, details will follow as they are worked out.

Sunday: Travel by motor coach to the USCG National Aids to Navigation School in Yorktown to see their magnificent display of Fresnel lenses. Then off to historic Fort Monroe to visit Old Point Comfort. Final stop of the day will be at Fort Story to visit Old and New Cape Henry Lights. Hopefully those interested will be allowed to climb both the Old Point Comfort and New Cape Henry lights. Lunch, beverages and snacks will be provided. The bus will stop at the Norfolk International Airport on the way back for those who want to fly home Sunday evening.

Hotel: Holiday Inn Olde Town, Portsmouth VA. Group rate is $96 plus tax for up to 4 people per room. The hotel is on the waterfront in Portsmouth, within an easy walk of the Lightship Portsmouth and the beautifully displayed first order lens from the Hog Island Light. The rate is a qualifying rate for Priority Club members. Once you have registered I will provide you with the group code to use when reserving. You will be able to reserve your room at this rate by calling the hotel directly; by calling the 1-800-holiday number; or at Holiday Inn’s web site.

PLEASE NOTE: I am not requiring participants to stay at the Holiday Inn. However, since the hotel is requiring me to fill a certain number of rooms to receive meeting rooms at no charge I will reserve the right to charge an additional fee to those who do not choose to stay at the Holiday Inn. I will charge this fee ($20 per person) only if enough rooms are not booked in our block and the hotel requires rental fees from me.

Please keep in mind that if you miss the bus, either Saturday or Sunday, you will not receive any refund. Do not plan on driving to the Virginia Beach marina unless you have someone who will return you to the marina to retrieve your vehicle.

In Olde Towne there are a variety of restaurants. There is a water taxi nearby, and also a river ferry service that will take you across the river to “Waterside” in Norfolk. You can also board one of the harbor tour boats in Portsmouth.

The weekend will have a limit of 100 participants. Cost will be $220 per person, not including hotel. What is included is the tour boat, the buses used, Saturday and Sunday lunches, snacks and beverages and the Saturday evening dinner as well as a donation to the APVA (caretakers of the Cape Henry lights). If someone is traveling with you and does not want to take the tours but would like to attend the dinner please let me know and this can be arranged.

Registration procedures: There is the possibility that more people will want to attend than there are spaces. To try and make this as fair as possible, I am going to use a mail in lottery registration process. You may either mail me (PO Box 5, Kokomo, IN 46903-0005) or email me (events06-portsmouth@yahoo.com) with your information. If you email, please make the subject "Tidewater Trip". The information I need is:

Name
Email address
Phone number
Number in your party and their names.

If you use the US Mail, please use a full size sheet of paper and fold it into thirds. Send it in a #10 envelope (the long envelope).

On February 3, I will randomly draw from the stack of those interested. Everyone should be notified of their status by February 6th. At that point participants will be asked to fill out a registration form and return it with a non-refundable deposit of $20 per participant by February 24th. The balance will be due in payments of $100 on March 15, and the last $100 on May 1st.

Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125221 01/18/06 11:19 PM
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Thanks Dave, this sounds great. We appreciate you so much!!!!
Betty P. smile

Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125222 01/18/06 11:27 PM
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fra02441 Offline
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I sent my email. laugh

Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125223 01/18/06 11:33 PM
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Nice set-up Dave!

Forum members and visitors: As Dave noted briefly, this will likely be one of two Harbour Lights Regionals for 2006. That means Bill and Nancy Younger will be in town as well as #1 Daughter Kim Andrews.

So you get a two-fer out of attending this WACKO event. Watch for more details next week on how the Regionals will work.


Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125224 01/18/06 11:35 PM
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ericlighthouse Offline
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Email sent.
Fingers crossed (for drawing).


Eric, Florida Keys Reef Lights Foundation; Godfather of Jones Point River Lighthouse; member and District Commissioner of Florida Lighthouse Association et el
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125225 01/19/06 12:46 AM
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Weasel58 Offline
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Done and done.


Eric
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125226 01/19/06 01:22 AM
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seagirt Offline
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I'll bring it up with my parents tomorrow. I'll try and pull for it, though they seem to get over-extended dealing with an NJLHS meeting for two hours...I don't know how my mum could do a whole weekend surrounded by people talking lighthouses non-stop. eek

Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125227 01/19/06 02:09 AM
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mghusge Offline
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Email sent.
Mike and Nettie

Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125228 01/19/06 03:27 AM
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Just saw this; sending my email. Thanks for the usual wonderful job!


beachcomber
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125229 01/20/06 04:16 AM
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email sent... sounds great Dave


Lonnie
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125230 01/20/06 10:15 AM
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flacoastie Offline
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The email has been sent.


Rich
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125231 01/20/06 01:42 PM
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eastpoint Offline
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e-mail sent

Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125232 01/21/06 12:21 AM
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Bigbird Offline
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Just saw this, now if I can come up with the time off from work and the $220 (providing I don't have to stay there, but hope you get enough rooms filled)! smile confused

Steve


Health through education, for a much misguided nation!!
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125233 01/21/06 02:14 AM
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beachcomber Offline
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With as many people as have expressed interest in this trip and despite the many who don't want hotel rooms, I have a feeling Dave will have no problem filling up those rooms.


beachcomber
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125234 01/21/06 02:59 AM
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ericlighthouse Offline
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If my name is picked,I will get a hotel room at the Holiday Inn that Dave is working with.


Eric, Florida Keys Reef Lights Foundation; Godfather of Jones Point River Lighthouse; member and District Commissioner of Florida Lighthouse Association et el
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125235 01/21/06 09:20 PM
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RoyMcB Offline
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Thanks for all your work Dave. I sent out our email today.


Roy & Carolyn
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125236 01/23/06 02:09 PM
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regalhobo Offline
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Hi Dave I sent my email out this a.m.. It was good seeing you this weekend and I hope you enjoyed yourself at your first NELL Lighthouses Hot Chocolate & You weekend. We enjoyed having you and John there. laugh
I'm loking forward to this weekend and hope I'm one of the lucky 100 if that drawing is necessary.
As I mentioned, I'll more than likely be taking my trailer. Have to check out the campgrounds in the area first. I'm sure there are plenty to choose from.
cool


regalhobo
Tom K

:) :cool:
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125237 01/23/06 02:42 PM
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RIP Puls Offline
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e mail sent,letter sent looking forward to the
ROY & RIP showII.


RIP
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125238 01/26/06 02:19 PM
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WackoPaul Offline
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Bring this to the top for Grace..


Onward to The Land of the Midnight Sun!
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125239 01/26/06 07:59 PM
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fra02441 Offline
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Pins and needles. A little clue on how many so far. wink

Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125240 01/26/06 08:32 PM
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Paul to the rescue - thanks!


beachcomber
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125241 01/26/06 09:00 PM
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fra02441 Offline
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OK Dave saw the post not yet. Oh well

Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125242 01/28/06 12:30 PM
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SDudley Offline
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Email sent this should be fun !

Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125243 01/31/06 01:09 PM
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Kat Offline
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We sent our email too, looking forward to this trip since the last time I was out taking pictures of NN Middle Ground I didn't realize there wasn't any film in the camera....dah!! Yes, Dave I was having another blond moment. My brother took me around in his boat that day...would have been GREAT pics too. laugh Hey Dave, this time I'll let Larry take the pics. Thanks for your hard work Dave...and I'm sure Heather and Sue will need a big thanks too.

Kat


KAT {=*+*=}
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125244 01/31/06 02:58 PM
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Lighthouser Offline
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Email has been sent!

Dave, you've done a fantastic job at putting this together. laugh

Judy


Judy
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125245 02/01/06 01:09 PM
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The deadline is looming. Time to let Dave know if you are hoping to attend. See his procedure in the first post in this thread.

Don't be left out - should be a good time had by all!

Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125246 02/01/06 03:11 PM
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Jenifer Selwa Offline
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I have a question. If I am in the pool for people chosen to go on this trip, I want to see the NC lights along the OB if I come. Can I see them all (Hatteras, Ocracoke, Currituck, Bodie, Cape Lookout) in one day? I'd like to do this the Friday before the weekend event. I've never been there, so I'm asking all you experts who are familiar with the area.

Also, what other land based lights are there in the Norfolk area that are not on the above itinerary, like Assateague?

Is anyone interested in a roomate? I will probably be coming solo this trip and splitting the cost of a room would be most beneficial.

Also, will a rental car be needed for the events on Saturday and Sunday? I'm thinking if I did the OB on Friday, I'd only need a one day rental car and then have the bus drop me at the airport on Sunday night like Dave's post mentioned above.

Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125247 02/01/06 03:37 PM
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eastpoint Offline
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Jen

That would be almost impossible to due in one day due to the distances involved and also Ocracoke and Cape Lookout require ferry rides to get to them. Currituck, Bodie, and Hatteras could be done in one day but you will spend a lot of time in the car. I did do Bodie, Hatteras and Ocracoke in one day when I went but it was a long day and we did not climb any of the lights. Part of the problem is there is only one two lane highway on the OBC and that adds to the time.

Hank

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Looking for a roomate, Jen? smile

Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125249 02/01/06 04:00 PM
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fra02441 Offline
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If I get picked, fingers crossed, I am driving down Thur after work and stopping off to see assateague. I will arrive thursday morning in VA. If that is the case you are welcome in my car if we can figure out a side trip for Friday. I was hoping Wolf Trap would be availabe as a side trip. I am sure we can work something out. I think Grace would like to also. I am waiting for the names to be picked.

Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125250 02/01/06 04:01 PM
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Lighthouser Offline
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Jen, I just sent you an email.

I also will try to help you guys with some touring info for OBX. I'd promised Bob S. earlier and haven't done this yet. eek

Assateque, although a VA lighthouse, is pretty far from the Norfolk area and is probably a daytrip in itself.

Hank is right on about how much you can do in a day's time on OBX. If you start really early, you could do Currituck, Bodie, Hatteras and Ocracoke in a day's time. You'd have to really hustle and you'd need to make the ferry to Ocracoke in your time frame. You could reasonably do 3 of the 4 depending on when your plane gets to Norfolk.

Judy


Judy
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125251 02/01/06 04:04 PM
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WackoPaul Offline
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Quote:
Part of the problem is there is only one two lane highway on the OBC and that adds to the time.
Especially in the Summer!! It can take forever to get to Currituck (Corolla) from Kitty Hawk..


Onward to The Land of the Midnight Sun!
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125252 02/01/06 04:24 PM
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seagirt Offline
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You have to time your trip to Corolla so as to not be going northbound within a two-hour timeframe of around four, or a two-hour timeframe southbound southbound on a Saturday or Sunday. Since the usual check-in and check-out times for all the rental houses are 10PM out and 4PM in, there's always a mass exodus at those times.

That's why we always either stay around Norfolk the night before we're checking in (and then just wander around the island - we can sometimes even get in early if we call early enough, and they put our house on top of the cleaning list). On the way out, we'll stay a few hours past check-out time, and just sit by the community pool for a few hours, have some lunch, and then leave.

Regardless of whether you're staying overnight or anything, that's about the only way. Outside of check-in and check-out timeframes, it's never really that bad going down NC-12, even in the in-season. I guess a lot of people just go to the beach for the day, and don't need to drive. Off season, you can go anywhere.

Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125253 02/01/06 05:03 PM
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Weasel58 Offline
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The only way to do Currituck to Ocracoke in one day is to start the morning on the Outer Banks in Kitty Hawk or Hatteras. I usally arrive in Buxton or Hatteras late the night before and start out in enough time to catch the 7:00 AM ferry to Ocracoke. Since Ocracoke is just a stop and take photos kinda light I can usally be back at Cape Hatteras Light in time to be in the first group up the light at 9:00 AM. If you are in to climbing and/or the gift shops Hatteras and Currituck can be real time killers.


Eric
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125254 02/01/06 07:40 PM
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Jenifer Selwa Offline
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Looks like I got me a roomate!! Thanks for all the info, gang. Sure do appreciate it!

Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125255 02/01/06 10:13 PM
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MelJB Offline
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Assateague is on the Eastern Shore, one must take the Chesapeake Bay Bridge/Tunnel to see this light. I believe this is a trip all its own as there is some driving involved once you get to the Eastern Shore. I believe the tower is only opened one day a month?? Also isn't the Pony Swim usually scheduled around July 4, which could possibly make the area very traffic heavy if people arrive early. Might want to check that out too.

Fran, Wolf Trap is only accessible by boat. And I'm fairly sure is barely viewable by land.

Judy, (fellow Virginian laugh ) do I have my facts straight?


Melody
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125256 02/01/06 10:52 PM
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I think so Melody. I love to go up to Assateaque. It's a beautiful and kind of rustic area, plus an adventure to get to, getting to cross the bridge.

But yes, I look at it as a whole separate trip.
And I don't think Wolf Trap can be seen except by boat.

There is a lot in the Tidewater area(Norfolk/Portsmouth) of VA to see and do that's nautical related. I was just discussing one of the sites to see...er...perks?...the uniforms- Navy, Coast Guard... laugh

Judy


Judy
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125257 02/02/06 12:23 AM
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If we get picked, Fran and I are considering a boat trip out to Wolf Trap. Jen, did you take John's offer?!!


beachcomber
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125258 02/02/06 12:50 AM
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Jenifer Selwa Offline
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No Grace, John's not my type. laugh :p

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MelJB Offline
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Fran & Grace..
If you are going to try for a boat trip to Wolf Trap, you might also find out if the Capt. can also take you over to New Point Comfort.

Judy,

My mother, daughter and I went over to Assateague a few years ago and what a great time. Was in June, but cool, overcast, and at sometimes rainy. The walk to the light was interesting, sure did need the "OFF" though eek

In Newport News there is the Mariners Musuem which has very nice displays of nautical items (keepers "tools" etc.)and also has the First Order Lens from Cape Charles.


Melody
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125260 02/02/06 01:42 AM
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Thanks, Mel. Any and all suggestions are appreciated. We will probably try to do this on Friday. Of course, it all depends on who gets picked!!


beachcomber
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125261 02/02/06 02:27 PM
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fra02441 Offline
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Waiting to see if I get picked. I want to charter a boat somehow to see Wolf trap anyone who wants to join is welcome to share. I will have a car to take as many as we can fit. I am also doing Assatuge on the way down from NJ. I hope everyone who sent an email is getting to go.

Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125262 02/03/06 12:16 AM
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ericlighthouse Offline
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Wolf Trap can be seen from Bethel(sp?) Beach. It is a distance view.


Eric, Florida Keys Reef Lights Foundation; Godfather of Jones Point River Lighthouse; member and District Commissioner of Florida Lighthouse Association et el
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ericlighthouse Offline
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Assateague Lighthouse Visitor Schedule

The Assateague Ligthouse is open every Friday thru Sunday from 9 am to 3 pm, Easter weekend thru Thanksgiving weekend.

Adults $4
Children $2 (free under 2)
* Age 2-12 must be accompanied by adult

* Call (757) 336-3696 for Tour Groups information


Eric, Florida Keys Reef Lights Foundation; Godfather of Jones Point River Lighthouse; member and District Commissioner of Florida Lighthouse Association et el
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MelJB Offline
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Eric,

Thanks for the corrected info on Wolf Trap and the schedule for Assateague.


Melody
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125265 02/03/06 10:34 PM
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Today is the day!! We will know soon if we were picked for this trip!


beachcomber
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125266 02/04/06 06:13 PM
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Dave H Offline OP
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Good news for all - everyone that has emailed me as of this moment has a space for the outing. I will be emailing more info and a registration form later today. If you do not get an email from me (and you sent one indicating interest), first check your "bulk mail" folder where group emails often end up. If not there, let me know and I will send the info to you.

There are still some spaces available. From this point forward things will revert to a first come, first served basis until capacity is reached.

Sorry to make everyone go thru this process, but from experience it is a much fairer process than posting immediatley opening registration.

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Great! Thanks, Dave. Can't wait to get the email.


beachcomber
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DAVE,YOUR THE MAN!


Eric, Florida Keys Reef Lights Foundation; Godfather of Jones Point River Lighthouse; member and District Commissioner of Florida Lighthouse Association et el
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If I don't find a friend to make this trip with me, is there anyone else who needs a roommmate?


beachcomber
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Jenifer Selwa Offline
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What else is there to do in Norfolk? Any tours of the Navy ships? Does anyone have any links to give further info?

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http://www.norfolkvisitor.com/norfolknavy/

You can't get on any of the ships on the base. The only ship you can board is the battleship Wisconsin which is at a downtown museum.

Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125272 02/16/06 12:21 PM
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Here's some more things you could explore in the area...

At this site, you'll find information on 3 amazing nautical museums - The Mariner's Museum, and the Virginia Living Museum in Newport News,and the Virginia Air & Space Museum in Hampton.
Three Nautical Museums

Then there is Colonial Williamsburg

And Jamestown Settlement & Yorktown Victory Center

There's the Waterman's Museum, historic tours and Riverwalk Landing in Yorktown. At the Riverwalk, besides exploring the neat shops wink , you can also sail away on the 105' Tall Ship, The Alliance .
Historic Yorktown


Judy
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125273 02/17/06 02:08 AM
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Great info, Judy! Aside from the lighthouses we will see on the tour, are there any land lights to which we could do the round trip in one day? Like on Friday or Monday? Could we go to Currituck and maybe Bodie? Mel, Eric S., anyone else who is familiar with the area?


beachcomber
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125274 02/17/06 02:19 AM
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BTW, how many of you are making the trip? I have heard from several people via email and I am sure Dave will send a list once registration is completed, but I was wondering. Would like to know how many of you I will finally meet in person. Can't wait!!


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Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125275 02/17/06 03:08 AM
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Weasel58 Offline
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Grace, working on the assumption that you spend the night before in the Norfolk/Portsmouth area, you can hit Currituck, Bodie, and Hatteras and get back to the Norfolk area in the same day. I once left out at 7:00 AM and hit Edenton, NC (Roanoke River) Plymouth, NC (Roanoke River replica) Manteo, NC (Roanoke Marshes replica) Bodie Island and Currituck, and still got back to Norfolk in time for supper. Of course I used to live in the area so did not spend a lot of time at each location.


Eric
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125276 02/17/06 03:57 AM
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Thanks, Eric! That is great news! Will you be making the trip? Several of the bus people are coming - should be great fun!


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Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125277 02/17/06 12:08 PM
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Grace, Eric gives you good information. The Outer Banks lights would be the ones to do for an all day excursion. All the VA lights in the area will be taken care of by the weekend events.
Assateque would be a one day in the opposite direction.

Very important info from Eric is that you plan to stay in the Portsmouth area the night before your day excursion and plan to start out very early to head for OBX to make a day of it.

I'm thinking the most comfortable OBX itinerary would be this:

Once you reached OBX, go through Nags Head and head to Bodie first, and then down to Buxton to see Hatteras, as Buxton is the farthest. Then come back up Rt. 12 to Nags Head and go all the way up to Currituck at Corolla. If your time looks good coming back towards Nags Head, you could take the bridge over to Manteo to see Roanoke Marshes Light(replica) and then return to Nags Head and head up to Corolla.

I chose this version of the tour on OBX because I think the drive back to Portsmouth, VA at the end of the long day would be easier from Corolla than from Buxton.

It's a lot of driving, but to be in the area for the first time, seeing these lights would be well worth the effort.

Grace, I'm coming for the weekend, and would also be interested in doing the OBX tour with any of you- I never get enough. laugh

Looking forward to meeting everyone!


Judy
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125278 02/17/06 01:55 PM
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Grace, yes I will be at this event. Depending on how I feel and how much time I get off from work, I am thinking about going up the Eastern shore after the event and then cut back to NC to visit my folks.


Eric
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125279 02/17/06 02:05 PM
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Judy, those pointers will help a whole lot. If this trip materializes, then I will fly in Thursday night so that a very early morning start will be feasible. However, I will do it only if I can get other people to make the trip, too. Fran won't be arriving until Friday, so she probably won't be able to make it. She doesn't mind driving, but I sometimes have a bit of a problem when I don't know the area. I am going to ask around to see if anyone else is interested. It would be disappointing to miss these lights since they are so close by. Of course, doing this on Monday is a possibility, too. Will any of these lights be open on Friday and/or Monday?


beachcomber
Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125280 02/17/06 04:10 PM
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We are still thinking of doing a week before in N.Carolina for vacation. but if not I will be leaving from Assateque and a relative Fri morn. Does anyone know how long it will take to get to the Hotel in VA from Assateque. I could probably do Hatteras bodie and currituck and be back at 8:00 pm to VA leaving at 10:00am. I think it takes 3hrs. to Hatteras from VA hotel. Maybe earlier if it dosn't take to long to get to VA on Fri. If that is the case I know Grace wants to go I have room and will take others. Still working on plans. I have Grand Caravan holds 7. my husband will probably not go he plays golf. Sorry if I ramble. To excited love these trips. laugh laugh laugh

Re: Tidewater 2006 - Wacko Trip and HL Regional #125281 02/17/06 07:52 PM
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We are past the limit for number of posts, so this is continued here .


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