If it is true that the Event Exclusive piece for 99 is not the traditionally lower priced piece, but rather a full size and full price piece, I am disappointed. I always thought that the pieces were priced at a bargain level, but kind of had the view that it was a way to give back to the collectors.

I'll still buy it and love the piece, but I'll just be missing the "old days" a bit

Tim

The event piece for 1999 will be a special full size piece according to HL. It looks like a real winner. The price tag of $65 isn't bad and the piece will be more proportionate to the regular LEs. Personally I would rather see the more expensive full size piece than the small cheaper one.

That's the word from the East Coast.

[This message has been edited by Bob M (edited 12-28-98).]

IMHO, the higher priced, larger size, Event Exclusives are a bad idea. I would tend to believe that the lower priced , smaller event piece would be better at attracting new collectors to Harbour Lights. I am not positive, but if I would have to guess, I would guess that this is the purpose of the Event Exclusive, enticing new collectors.

First, if the price is lower, this may entice more people into purchasing the piece, thus hooking them into becoming addicted HL collectors.

Second, for the first point to have any noticible effect, store employees in conjunction with the HL Rep, and Bill if he is present, need to aggressively market and display this event piece. Display it up by the register and at Bill's signing table. Have store employees approach customers and explain the in store event that is taking place. At many of the store event's that I have attended, the event piece was left in the box, behind the counter. If you weren't looking for it, you wouldn't find it. Also, with the mob around Bill at these events, some people are probably afraid to go up and find out what is going on, or Bill is too busy to talk to potential new collectors. This is where the employees have to let people who don't know in on the craze of HL(They are the ones not carrying HL boxes with them).

Does anyone have any info on the effect that the Event Exclusive has on potential new collectors? John, what is HL's position for having the event piece? I just feel with a little better cordination and effort by some stores and HL Reps, (I am sure some stores do a fantastic job at in store events) The less expensive Event Exclusive could be a better draw for potential new collectors.

-Todd(From the city by the bay)

[This message has been edited by Todd Shorkey (edited 12-28-98).]

Curious why they chose to do Kilauea Point (sp?) as the event piece and to charge $65 for it. I'm inclined to agree with Todd and Sean.

Doesn't strike me as a model that will grab new collectors - maybe Hawaiians and past tourists. When you think of lighthouses, do you think Hawaii? I sure don't. Then to charge $65 for this particular event piece is really strange.

While the real models invariably look better than HL's AP publicity photos , for pure appeal, I'd put Sunken Rock up against this one any day.

Let me put it differently. If this was not the Event Piece, but a regular LE release, it would'nt be anywhere near the top of my "must have" list. 'Course maybe once they made it HL had the same opinion and thats exactly why they did it as the Event Piece.

I suspect the purpose of the 'Event' is to draw crowds and sell lighthouse models. The crowds may attract non-collecting folk just browsing in the giftshop or 'in the neighborhood'. Checking what all the hubbub is about, some people will look closer. Once they get close enough to see '$65' for a model of a lighthouse they likely will never see, I wonder if many will walk away?

I'm not very familiar with other collectible lines, but I thought special pieces for store events were generally less expensive. Anyone have experience outside HL to share in this regard?

I like the smaller scale of past Event Pieces and the smaller price. I liked this year's Roosevelt Island.

The rebuttal to all this is - 'OK Tim - lets hope you're right. If not as many people buy it because of attraction or price, then it will be all the more rare'. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

No ice yet at the Fog Signal Building,
__
/im

>>I'm not very familiar with other collectible lines, but I thought special pieces for store events were generally less expensive. Anyone have experience outside HL to share in this regard?<<
__
/im, have you checked your MSRP list for Harbour lights lately ? In the immortal words of Alfred E. Newman, "$65.00 still cheap"

What me worry ?,
Mark

I thought the lower priced Event Exclusives and the Collectors Society "gift" pieces were a great way for HL to produce smaller lights that were going to be difficult to create larger LE versions of, as in the past releases. ie: Sunken Rock, Cockspur, Edgartown, etc.

There are alot of great looking lights out there that are probably too small to produce as limiteds that I would love to have in the collection (Mystic Seaport, Long Point, Wood End, Vermilion, Derby Wharf, Cheyboygen Crib, Avery Point, Newport Harbor, etc.) that I was looking forward to seeing someday as an event exclusive.

I guess I'm a little dissapointed also.

---

-RodW
[This message has been edited by Rod Watson (edited 12-29-98).]

Speaking without official word of any kind, and wearing my collector's hat...

The purpose of a store event is (bluntly) to help the retailer sell more Harbour Lights. Figuring the markup at 100%, if you were a retailer, would you rather sell 25 $25 lighthouses ($312.50) plus the usual batch of limiteds, GLOWs, etc. that dealers sell at events or a number of $65 lighthouses? (It would take the sale of just 10 $65 lighthouses to exceed the $312.50 from 25 $25 ones.)

Keep in mind that Harbour Lights and retail dealers ARE in the business of business. And aren't we all still amazed when you look at the detail and painting time that must go into a Cape Elizabeth ME model, for example, and wonder just how it can be made, shipped, and sold for $75 -- and still provide profit for the manufacturer, Harbour Lights, the rep, and the retail store?

That said, yes, I liked the scale of Sunken Rock and Edgartown, not too thrilled with Roosevelt, but I'm a WACKO, so "..any lighthouse in a storm"

John


[This message has been edited by JChidester (edited 12-29-98).]

Store events are designed to:
Offer an exclusive figurine/lighthouse at a reduced price to bring in new collectors.
When hosted by Younger, it offers collectors both new and old to get a piece signed.
It also opens the door for a new/old collector to buy another lighthouse,and get it signed.
However if the price is too high then they might not even buy the event piece.
The difference between $25.00 and $65.00 will determine if they land a new collector or not.
I sugguest that they keep a small event piece around $25.00 and they should have made the Hawiian piece an LE.
I believe most Collectors will buy it but I don't think it will draw any new collectors in.

Sure, Harbour Lights might not make as much money on the front end of the sale of a cheaper event piece, but the potential for back-end sales is certainly higher. The more event pieces you sell, the greater your chances of people joining the Society, buying new LE's or GLOW's, etc.

Bodies...it's all about getting bodies into the circle. The lower the price...the more bodies you get. Simple economics.

Unless Harbour Lights lost their shirt on previous event pieces, I think they made a bad business move here. On the flip side, as previously noted, it will probably turn out great for the secondary market due to the low number of pieces that will be sold.

Agreed about the purpose of the store event - as noted earlier.

However, does your justification for higher price (namely, higher profit) see the purchases at the store event soley in the context of the dollars spent at that event? If I was a shop keeper I would much rather sell 25 models @$25 to 25 customers than 10 models to 10 customers @$65 - even if the latter sale nets me a few bucks more.

Why? For the same reason I'd rather have 25 people come through my shop than 10. I get 2½ times as many chances that the customer will make other purchases and/or come back later. Don't forget the whole notion of collecting and collectibles implies repeat purchases. And we've already spent considerable time discussing how to prevent the market from stagnating - ie., from being satisfied with its current customer base. Between $125 Hillsboros and re-issued Portland Heads, surely a $25 Event Piece is not too much to ask as a token attempt toward garnering new customers and thus even greater future profits.

I think Sean's point here fits the case perfectly. How many people are more likely to make an additional HL or other giftshop purchase when they buy a $25 event piece than when they buy a $65 event piece? Based on that equation, could the $65 event piece end up costing business?

I do completely agree with you that we should first and foremost attempt to understand anything done by Harbour Lights in terms of maximizing profit. There may be lots of warm and cuddly reasons why they do what they do, but the first place to look for any explanation is at the bottom line. Don't get me wrong - nothing wrong w/ making a profit - its the American way. :-) We're talking about marketing and market dynamics.

And to speak to your question - frankly I'm not at all amazed that HL can design, produce, market, and distribute 10 new limited editions (100,000 models) for 3.75 million dollars. The first 10 of each are probably real expensive - the rest are probably real cheap. Goodness only knows what the manufacturer pays all those 14 year old Chinese girls who paint the little dears - care to take a guess? This is not a knock on anybody - just a nod towards HL's obvious (as opposed to amazing) profit making capabilities.

Also agree with Rod. The EP is/was a great opportunity for HL to do smaller lights - ones not naturally suited to a full size LE. I personally would really much prefer a cute little Cheyboygen crib light than the Profitable Pineapple. :-)

Eating fruit salad in the Fog Signal Building,
__
/im

When the Event Piece was on the small side, both physically and monetarily, I would usually end up with two of them. One for my collection and the other for future use in aquiring more HL's down the road (speculation). I don't think I'll be doing this if the price jumps to $65 (160% increase over the present price). I would like to see the company continue with the smaller scale (and less expensive) Event Piece and feel that this would attract more people, hence more profit in the long run for the company and the dealers.

Ron

I've been reading through the replies in this thread and none of you have changed my mind about my feelings towards the $65 Event Piece. When I went to a Rep Event to purchase my Roosevelt Island, I didn't see any what I would consider to be potential collectors. As a matter of fact most of the people there were buying mutiple EPs. Why you ask? Because they knew there would be other collectors who wouldn't make it to a Rep Event and would probably pay $35-$40 for that piece. If I didn't get mine (I only bought one) I would probably have paid the inflated price to own the 1998 EP.

I do not mind buying a full size quality EP for $65. Is there any new HL that will sell for that price in 1999. I would guess the cheapest one would probably be at least $15 more. Will I buy two? No, I'll only buy one. If it cost $25 would I buy two? Maybe, if I needed a nice gift for a friend.

Let's face it, HLs don't retail for $50-$60 anymore. When prices approach $100 and the biggie goes for $125 or more, $65 starts to look awful nice.

That's the word from the East Coast.

>>Now I don't have to.<<

Aw come on. Surprise me.

Besides, I agreed with you first. :-)

Neener Neener Neener,
__
/im

I agree that the price is way above what we have paid in the past for EPs. I will pay the price because it is the EP, not because I think that it is a good deal, but for the collecting, which is what I do with HL.

Bob

------------------

FWIW, I bought 3 Roosevelt Islands this year: one for Mariann & me and one for each of my two kids. It looked like a relatively cheap way to get them interested in this one aspect of our history, to help make it come alive. I thought I'd be able to do this every year, based on past event piece pricing. Looks like it will be GLOWs for the kids in '99.

-Art

>>Looks like it will be GLOWs for the kids in '99.<<

Art,

Why not first complete the set with the Sunken Rock (EP '96) and Edgartown (EP '97) models? You should be able to find these for considerably less than the price of a GLOW. You know how I hate to see you throw your money away. [vbg]

Sunken Rock is as nice a piece as you'll find. Take the family to Thousand Islands and see the real thing.

Rgds,
__
/im

And now The Fog Signal Players present:

"Another Special Guest"
----Act I, Scene I-----


[Johnnie:] "I know my folks are poor but I musta been a bad boy this year - all I got in my stocking was a lump of coal."
[Susie:] "Really! I feel sorry for you. I got a Harbor Lights GLOW model in my stocking! If it will make you feel better I'll trade with you."
[Johnnie:] "Nah - at least I can burn the coal to keep warm."

Tim, I knew a response from you was forthcoming!

Of course we'll cover those earlier event pieces for the kids. I agree that Sunken Rock is quite nice. But my plan was to buy something for the kids during an event (so they can talk to Bill, too), not just to buy the piece. Who knows, if they treat their Roosevelt Island properly (don't break it, keep it away from the dog and dust it periodically) over the next year, maybe I'll spring for the Kilauea (sp?) anyway. But I still wish it was $30.

I'm with you Art! I went to three BY events this year. Picked up 2 or three EP at each one. There were several friends & relatives that had expressed interest in HL, so I gave them Roosevelt Island. During this year both my grown sons, step-daughter & two friends have joined HL collectors society. Funny how that happened. Then I phone ordered 7 more for several members of our HL collector's club that could not make it to an event.

I'll buy this year's EP, but won't be able to give very many away this year!

I have a better idea!!! Why not have two event pieces, one fullsized (& full priced) & one a bit smaller & $25-30. Nuts like ourselves will buy both & newcomers can still afford to walk away with a nice piece. Boy that's a tough one to figure out!!!

Thats enough for now. Keep the Flame

Richard

Ouch! What a dilemma. I have each of the previous EPs and enjoy them all. But this one is going to be a much tougher decision. It's more than twice as expensive as it's predecessors and it's not an East or Gulf coast light. (I was still buying everything in 1996 when Sunken Rock was the EP). Mr. Younger doesn't make many appearances within a day trip's driving for the house. So chances of the one or two events I could go to coinciding with me being able to go are slim. The price is too high to ask another collector to "pick one up for me" in a last minute conversation. I guess that unless HL adopts Richards suggestion, an EP comparable to LE's and an EP like the other years, I'll have to pass.

Another mark on the 'con' side of the HL ledger when it comes to continuing the effort to own a complete collection.

I, too, would prefer that EPs remain smaller in scale and lower in price with the primary objective being to attract new collectors.

On the other hand, Kilauea Pt. Lighthouse, due to its natural setting high on a bluff, is best rendered on a larger (i.e., LE) scale. Considered as an LE piece, this attractive light is getting the proper scale treatment and the $65 price tag is less than that of most recent LE pieces.

If the higher $65 EP price depresses sales and multiple purchases, total sales might trend toward the 6,000 range vs. the more recent 8,000 range for EPs. The value of the piece as a collectible will increase accordingly.

As a typical LE, Kilauea might (can't account for the tourist factor although Hawaii has limited HL dealers & none on Kauai) take a longer time to sell out a regular 10,000 edition size.

I'm a Univ. of Hawaii grad and have a built-in bias toward Hawaii lights, but I believe this particular light is a winner for several reasons:

1) attractive; 2) right-sized; 3) possible lower total edition size; and 4) predetermined availability window.

[This message has been edited by Rich Boyes (edited 01-01-99).]

[This message has been edited by Rich Boyes (edited 01-01-99).]

Well, I guess that I will put in my two cents worth of opinion on this matter. I believe that what makes a piece an "event piece" is that it not only represents the particular event, but is also distinguishably different from a regular piece. It is supposed to be a memento of the occasion(a souvenir,a keepsake,something special), not a business proposition so every one involved can turn a profit. It should be both Harbour Lights and the retailers way of saying: thank you for your business--here is a little something special for you. Therefore I am in favor of the "smaller" event piece at a minimal cost.And there are enough small lighthouses out there that would never justify being a regular LE and having an "event piece' is a great way to offer these lighthouses to collectors.

One comment to thelgtkpr:

"Well Said"

This is just speculation on my part, but possibly the original sculpture of Kilauea that we saw at the reunion was meant to sell in the $35-40 range, but when HL decided to change the design to make it more authentic, they had to raise the price. It will be interesting to see what the edition size ends up to be.

I enjoyed the idea of getting a deal with the Event piece.
The dealer I went to didn't really have that great of an inventory but was still selling additional pieces as well as multiple EPs. The dealer was also getting BY to sign additional pieces for later sale.
THE Event was meeting and getting BY to sign some pieces. The stories and other collectors were great. Other dealers who were attending and located in the same area were lining up for future events.(I've had three tell me how they are trying to get next years Event.)
I seem to remember some debate last year about some dealers charging $30 instead of $25 for the EP. My EP dealer told me the day before the correct price was 30 but on day of event charged 25.
I still like the idea of getting a deal!!!

I, too, would have preferred that HL stay with the smaller size (and price) for the '99 event piece. I've often used the event piece (in the form of a gift) to introduce others to the world of Harbour Lights. It had always been an affordable and excellent example of HL's quality work. No way I can afford to gift potential collectors with this years piece! I also liked the smaller size since it lent itself well to filling in small gaps between some of the full size pieces on the display shelves. That's no longer the case.
Since I'm a wacko collector (like so many others who frequent this forum), I'll buy the piece and be happy with it; however, I still think HL make a mistake with this move.

As a newer collector on a budget, I also am not happy about what HL is doing with the '99 event piece. Last year, I was able to buy another piece and have both signed. This year, I'll probably only be able to by the event piece.