Well here comes all that SOL stuff oozing out of the hard drives.

To get you started, check out these past threads on the SoL idea:

216.46.163.97/forums/Forum4/HTML/000061.html

216.46.163.97/forums/Forum17/HTML/000013.html

216.46.163.97/forums/Forum4/HTML/000006.html

216.46.163.97/forums/Forum7/HTML/000009.html

To see other threads (28) that include SoL references, search on "Statue Liberty" and choose "ALL" words.
[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 10-17-99).]

Does this mean that the SOL was previewed at Atlanta? Is it a 2000 release?

Please say no John.

Sean


[This message has been edited by SThompson (edited 10-10-99).]

From Derith's posting, The Statue of Liberty will be a special item available Jan-Dec 2000. Not sure if there is a cap on the edition or not.

UPDATE: Available to order January 1 - December 31, 2000. HL refers to this as a "Turn of the Century" Special Edition. No preset edition size.

[This message has been edited by JChidester (edited 10-12-99).]

We were all revved up when the pieces were first uncovered, but Bill did say an edition number. I called HL today, but most had not yet gotten back from Atlanta, Kate did not know the number.

Derith

[This message has been edited by Derith Bennett (edited 10-11-99).]

From our 'Wacko-on-the-spot' here's a peek at the Statue of Liberty.



Photo by Derith Bennett.



[This message has been edited by JChidester (edited 10-14-99).]

Thanks Derith & John for teaming up to give us our first look see.

Moby

Thanks for the preview of the S of L. The first thing that came to my mind when I saw the picture was "giftware." It will never be a lighthouse in my mind. The S of L will always be a national treasure, but not something I would expect to be produced by a company in the lighthouse replica business.

Bob

I expect to have the official publicity photos of Liberty Enlightening the World and American Shoal this afternoon and will post them when I have them.

UPDATE - pictures next Monday.

[This message has been edited by JChidester (edited 10-14-99).]

Gotta agree with Bob!



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Ken T

I wasn't going to respond because most of you know how I feel about SoL being the lighthouse for the 'Year before the Millennium' but after seeing the picture, I haven't changed my mind one bit.

This may be the first HL that I don't purchase, stubborn aren't I?

With the Open Edition size for a year it qualifies as more of an OE than the 1st generation OE lighthouses that have been revised and the first version retired.

Paul L Brady

Uh oh. When Cruise Directors uniformly pan a piece, that's not a good sign. At the Edison show, however (and that was, what, almost 2 years ago?), during one of Bill Younger's forums, people were adamant about having Liberty Enlightening the World sculpted. Kim Andrews was literally beating people back with a mop (at least that's my recollection).

Interesting that there's a backlash going on.

I'll definitely want to read the history booklet that Harbour Lights includes with it. I'm still not clear on whether or not it was a true "lighthouse" or not. At the same time, I think it's an appropriate piece to mark the Millenium.

Will I buy it? Well, watch for my review in January.

OK Paul and Bob, but I better let you know that I'm only going to buy one extra so I can charge you ten times what it cost me once 2001 arrives. Come on you guys. If it says HL, we'll buy it. Wouldn't want the collection to be one short.

Rich

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Hi all,

I remember that also Bill at the Edison show in New Jersey.Everyone was asking about a SOL and when one might be produced.I was also asking..and after seeing the pic,not so sure it gets my juices flowing.Maybe because we see so many other SOL pieces and pictures all over.Then again,we all know how pics of HL's never show them in there glory.I will buy it I'm sure,lets hope they put a edition size on it though.

Besides taking the place of a "True" lighthouse in my curio, I know everyone who admires my collection is going to ask me "What is that doing in there with your lighthouses?". I can see it now, having to explain the same story over-and-over. I'll just save myself the trouble and not buy one, HL's or not. I can think of many other HL's to spend $100+ on that would look MUCH better in the curio.


Digger

Here's a link to information about the Statue of Liberty's role as a lighthouse:

http://www.lighthousemuseum.org/nylights/slibrty.htm

I won't mind explaining the story to those who see it front and center in my curio at all!

I think it looks great. I'll certainly buy one. Bet most of those swearing it off right now will end up buying one, too.

Like it or not, it was (and therefor is) a real lighthouse. In fact, it served as a lighthouse for five times as long as Yaquina Bay LH served!

Should it be ostracized for carrying the 'extra baggage' of being a vital national symbol of freedom? Should it be snubbed because a million bad models already exist of this one? Decide for yourself, of course. But I think it will be neat to watch people's faces as they come to the realization that Lady Liberty is a real lighthouse when they figure out why it's there in the curio with the other HLs.

Suits me if you don't buy one. I'll buy two. Then you can all fight over the extra in 2001 when you realize that only 500 had been sold in the year 2000. ;->

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-Art

I have to agree with Digger. I can think of a lot of other HL's the I would rather spend the money on. I guess I'll reserve my decission on weather to buy one or not until I see it in person. Pictures on the computer don't do them justice. Putting an addition size on it less than 10,000 would help me with that decission though.
Dale

I can't believe that the twins are not expecting the arrival of 'SoL'. I'm sure you'll cave in to maintain your full collection, Paul. LOL
I do admire you stand, although I don't agree with it.
With the edition size, I'm sure you'll have lots of time to reconsider. Maybe even come to love it! TIC
Sorry, Paul, couldn't resist.

Just to clarify one fact: I will buy the SOL because it is produced by HL. I don't feel that it will be displayed with my HL LH collection. As a matter of fact, it will probably fall into the category of "MIB / only taken out of the box for inspection."

Bob

I will purchase a SOL just because it is a Harbour Lights piece. However, I do not think it will be that great a seller to Harbour Lghts collectors. A gift shop in NY might do well with sales.

While I wouldn't say I'm a big fan of HL choosing to do SoL (I would have been just as happy with several other possible choices), I would have to say in response to the comment
"I can see it now, having to explain the same story over-and-over."
that this is the main plus for me. Any item in my collection that encourages questions from my guests (and therefore more of a chance for me to tell them about lighthouses) is a plus.

FrankB

First of all we should call this piece by its correct name-"Liberty Enlightening The World". Though I haven't made up my mind yet as to whether or not I'll buy it(I'll Have to see it first), I don't believe that it will be a big seller. Judging by the feedback so far, there doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm among the Forum users which I think is a good indicator of how the piece will fare. Probably the biggest problem is the price. Also, I don't think that too many non-Harbour Lights collectors are going to shell out that much when other replicas of the SOL are easily found in many gift shops at a much lower price. This could be Naversink all over again. But I do believe that a few years down the road it will be a much sought after piece.


TheLightkeeper"

You have to remember that this piece will appeal to a far wider consumer base than just us lighthouse wackos. I could see foreigners especially picking up a piece when they visit. I think the New York area will go nuts with LETW because it will stand out as the superior piece. If Harbour Lights' sculpting is up to their usual standards, it'll put the rest to shame.

If they allow it to be sold in the Statue of Liberty Gift shop, look out.

My guess is that its performance will fall somewhere in the middle. Not a supersonic seller...but a steady percolator that'll sell more than 10,000 in its year of issue. And by any standard, that's a grand slam.

Does anyone who is planning not to buy LETW because "it's not a lighthouse" own a Bob Younger Memorial Tree? If so, maybe your decision isn't philosophical, but economical . . .

Bruce

The point is not that SoL wasn't a lighthouse. It was a lighthouse, but an important lighthouse it wasn't. SoL is very important to not only America and the World, but not as a lighthouse.

The Bob Younger Memorial tree is called a tree...

With 225 HL lighthouses, a full set of ornaments and three spyglass series displayed in five cabinets and with all nine Limited Edition AB ships and the full set of the six Open Edition AB Ships (extremely limited) all displayed, I don't think it is a economical decision on my part.


SaintWackoPaul '
Keep the Flame

Hey Paul....you're my hero! With a collection like yours you should be the personal hero of all us Wackos...lol !

Bob

No trees here and no SOL, especially for $125!

"If you build it, they will come?"

Maybe, maybe not.

MOMBO

I think she is beautiful!

I am so glad that so many say they won't buy it so I am secure in knowing that I will be able to buy mine. She will have the "main spot" in my curio. I'm going to start planning the rearranging now.

Joanne

I think my major problem here is due to the fact that I used to work in Manhattan. And not only that, I started there in 1986, the 100th anniversary of Lady Liberty. Because of that, every street corner had a salesman selling some sort of Liberty figurine, whether it be glass, plastic, plaster, wood or some sort of Chia Pet (yes, I really saw that!). I am sure that the HL one will be the highest quality of all, and if they can do something different, I may buy it. Right now, I'm taking a wait and see attitude. Should be an interesting piece!

Maybe HL should put a "I Love NY" bumper sticker in the box along with a 7" vinyl of old Blue Eyes singing "New York, NY", as an added incentive to buy the SOL...lol!

Bob

If you've read through the Fogsignal Building threads on Y2K SoL, you got a good idea where I stand on the subject.

Whether they call it their Millenium Piece or not, thats effectively what it is for Y&A. Its one of those great warm and fuzzy ideas that captures the imagination - that is if don't think about it too long. But at $125 they're shooting themselves in the foot - sell it for $70 and they'll do much better with it. Regardless how nicely its done, at $125 I doubt it would compete very well in the SoL gift shop.

I'm dissapointed with their lack of imagination for a Y2K piece. There's many a forgotten lighthouse thats more deserving of our memory through preservation as a model. (And yes, I'd say the same if Y&A decided to do Hilton Head today.) Even a steamer full of immigrants in the A/B line woulda been more interesting.

Rgds,
__
/im
[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 10-16-99).]

I'm curious. Why is the price so much higher for the SOL than the American Shoals piece. It looks like the Shoal Light is much more intricate to build. Any ideas?

Sean

Maybe the price will be what ultimately decides just how limited this HL will be. Perhaps it was intended that way.

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-Art

Good question. A simple answer is because Y&A figures thats what the market will bear - iow, they think they can get $125 for SoL, but nor for AmShoals. I agree that AmShoals certainly looks the more costly to produce. I wonder if there are any licensing issues for SoL?

If SoL is only available to be ordered by dealers for a year, HL thinks the $125 price gives them the best chance of recovering their production costs if the edition size turns out low due to the limited availability period. Greater risk = higher price. However, I tend to think they believe (hope) it will be a big seller based on their perception of folks clamoring for it to be made and it will give them a nice pick-me-up to their cash flow and a tidy profit.

As for American Shoals, fewer people will ever see the real thing relative to the number who will see many of the land based lights so its harder for some to relate to it. In order to get more collectors to buy the piece HL will keep the price lower because it doesn't have the same attracting power as the 'tourist/land lights' - despite its intricacy. Same rationale behind relatively lower prices for the foreign lights.

This is all just speculation on my part. It will be very interesting to see how SoL 'grabs' the dealers - what will their initial orders be based on what they think their buyers will do.

__
/im
[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 10-17-99).]

Makes sense to me, Tim. Sometimes we forget that not everyone out there is a Wacko with expendable cash. I just hope the SoL doesn't turn into a dust collector seated between the last two Cape Blancos and Umpqua Rivers looking for a good home.

We should send an investigative reporter to NYC to ask this question to the general public: "Would you pay $125 for a replica of the Statue of Liberty?" We should make sure he isn't in a gift shop that is selling Lady Liberty for 20% of that cost.

The HL faithful will buy...convincing the general public to buy will be another story. Harbour Lights isn't in business to lose money. I'm sure they have thoroughly researched this matter before making the committment to produce it. Time will tell!

Bob

oops

[This message has been edited by TheLightkeeper (edited 10-17-99).]

The HL faithful will buy...convincing the general public to buy will be another story.

I am not so sure that the HL faithful can be convinced to buy. Which brings up a point. Who are the HL faithful? If these Forums are an indicator of the HL faithful then this piece is in trouble. There are 547 registered users and only about 100 who activly participate and out of those 100 there has been very little positive feedback about this piece. Only about a dozen or so people have indicated that they will purchase this.


"TheLightkeeper"

Sounds great to me. If anyone was clamoring it had to have its origin at the Edison Show. Other than this forum, I have never heard this lighthouse mentioned as being on anybodys request card, but then of course the cards aren't mailed to me for screening before they make it to HL. Hmmm, maybe I should talk to HLs mailman.

Sean
"The Closest Wacko to HL Mecca"

Hi Lightkeeper,...we all have to consider the fact that many HL collectors do not own a computer, or if they do they may not have an online service. Therefore, the actual amount of people that can be considered the "HL Faithful" will be much greater than the numbers you quote.

Bob

Ordered my SoL on Friday.

1) Which name do you prefer?
"Liberty Enlightening The World" is the name of the sculpture.
"Statue of Liberty National Monument and Ellis Island" is the name of the unit within the National Park System which includes all of Liberty and Ellis Islands and the structures on them.
So, use whichever name you like. They are both correct.

2) "There are 547 registered users and only about 100 who activly participate"
As BobM correctly points out, there are many "HL Faithful" beyond those on this forum.
At the signing in St. Charles, MO, I asked BY if they had looked at Sault Ste. Marie, ONT, as a possible Reunion site. He replied that they already receive numerous complaints that HL even makes foreign lights, so they would expect to receive a lot of negative response to going across the border with a Reunion.
However, I have not noticed this "anti-foreign" sentiment on these forums, neither with respect to HL doing foreign lighthouses, nor in any responses in the Reunion forum to the post I made which included SSM, ONT, as a possible site.
So, it would appear that the overall collector response can vary considerably from what shows up in these forums.

FrankB

Well, for whatever reason, I've ordered mine.

If you've ever gazed upon the real thing and haven't come away with just a little sense of awe, then you must be a hardened New Yorker. ("Just kidding!" he says, ducking for cover)

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Bob Steinbrunn
Nautical Research Guild


[This message has been edited by Bob Steinbrunn (edited 10-18-99).]

Don't like it, but will buy it, really should'nt demand more 60.00 for the piece.

It will go over big at the SOL Gift Shop and in New York proper.


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Bob

Like the Statue of Liberty, I think Harbour Lights is also Enlightening the World to Lighthouses. I love the once called International Series of lighthouses as much as any other. I have less available resources on the history of International Lights and a much less chance of ever getting to see any of them. Cape Aghulas, I'm not ashamed to admit that I had never heard of it until Harbour Lights made it.

Harbour Lights your doing a great job!!! Continue to enlighten us. If your a lighthouse lover how can you discriminate? You may not like the looks of the lighthouse but surely you can't dislike it because its not a US light, can you??

imho
Sean

I like foreign lights though I will admit I didn't buy them at first. I have them all now!

They may not be as popular as our own U.S. of A. lights but I've never heard anyone complain about them. People will buy what they like except for the true wackos that buy them all!!!!

Bob

I'm sorry to read that people have complained about foreign lights. I can see the point of view of the SOL not being a lighthouse, but can't understand the reluctance to foreign lighthouses. I love my La Jument and Longships because they are different from American lights. I didn't intend to buy either at first, but the more I looked, the more I wanted them.

Joanne

Lighthouses, no matter where they are located, are unique treasures which we all must work to save. I agree that Harbour Lights continues to do a fantastic job in promoting lighthouses, lighthouse awareness and preservation everywhere.

Ron
(CT Keeper)

This is a very unusual remark by BY and the first time I've every heard anyone from HL mention what you refer to as "anti-foreign" sentiment. Not on the forums, not at the Reunions, not at signing events, club events, chats, etc. LaJument has been a great piece for them and the '99 Canadian East Quoddy should also do very well. And lest we forget, SoL came from France.

Radio transmitted from the French wine tanker Le Snot,
__
/im :-)
[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 10-18-99).]

Right. And if HL does the SOL, Jr. located on the Seine in Paris, would it be the first International GLOW?

Mombo

OK, here's a quick scan of the Statue of Liberty item - expected to ship to dealers mid-late January, 2000.



And here's a closer look at the detail:




[This message has been edited by JChidester (edited 10-19-99).]

Thanks for the post John. What a difference. Not being a real big fan of HLs selection this photo sure sparks my interest. It looks like it is a well done piece. Since I am committed to having them all I am happy to see that it doesn't look like a souvenier. When the SOL was a Lighthouse what was the location of the Lantern? Was it a Fresnel?

With all thats been said pro or con about this piece, I would like to recognize the artist that sculpted it and the artist that painted it. What a beautiful job.

Sean



[This message has been edited by SThompson (edited 10-19-99).]

yeppers - nice shots, JC - thanks.