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Another HL Dealer Out of Business #102870 01/31/04 11:05 PM
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flacoastie Offline OP
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Another dealer in Jacksonville FL has given up on the collectible market and closed his store. He has moved all his remaining HLs and ABs to his store in Gainesville(Home of the Fighting Gators). I was talking to him today and he will discount a great portion of his HL pieces at 30% and his Anchor Bays at 50%. He also has quite a few retired pieces that might be included in this 30%. If interested contact flacoastie@worldnet.att.net and I'll give you his phone number.


Rich
Re: Another HL Dealer Out of Business #102871 02/01/04 12:54 AM
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This seems to be the trend. Dealer after dealer going out of business. More dealers are selling Harbour Lights on Ebay than ever before, even new pieces at less than retail price. Collectors are unloading pieces for less than they paid for them. There are very few Harbour Lights that one would have to pay retail price to buy, both retired and new. Most can be bought for less than retail. I predict that Harbour Lights will give it up within three years, if not sooner. The market just isn't there.

Re: Another HL Dealer Out of Business #102872 02/01/04 08:25 AM
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Bob M Offline
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Quote:
I predict that Harbour Lights will give it up within three years, if not sooner. The market just isn't there.
It is my firm belief that Harbour Lights will be around for a long time, and I don't see any signs of them closing out their several lines.

Younger & Associates is a well established company that produces a variety of collectibles and giftware. They have a substantial core of collectors upon which they have built their business.

You must remember that the dealer/stores that are closing are not exclusive Harbour Light stores. They sell many different brands of merchandise, and need new people to walk in off the street and purchase their wares every day. They can't survive by selling HL's to a handful of faithful customers who pick up each new release.

Another thought to ponder is the fact that if there are HL's in a store and they are offering them at "close-out" pricing, Harbour Lights has already been paid for those pieces. No matter what a dealer sells the HL's for, and even if it violates the contractual agreement of not discounting pieces, Harbour Lights has already made whatever profit on their end.

I would say there are a couple of different views about collecting HL's. The first would be the apparent enjoyment derived from being involved with Harbour Lights and owning what many consider to be a thing of beauty. The second view would be as an investment. Something you purchased at a price with the hopes of selling at a later date for a profit.

I would say the majority of the people that frequent the CF are a mixture of the two views above. They buy HL's because they like the way they look, and it's a great hobby to try and get whatever pieces you need to fill in a collection. They also buy doubles with the hopes of selling or trading them at a later date for an upgrade to their collection or for profit. I don't know of any person who has considered being buried with their collection.

Is eBay to blame for the downfall of collectible pricing? No, they are just the tool being used by people to rid themselves of something they have lost interest in and are hoping to make a buck or recover their initial investment. The good thing about eBay is it opens up your options of connecting with fellow collectors world-wide, and allows them to offer items you may never see at your local dealer. Other than eBay and the New Marketplace here at the CF, I wouldn't know where to go to try to find unique and hard to find HL's. Most other of the secondary market dealers have faded into the sunset.

So my friends, buy what you enjoy and enjoy what you buy! If you didn't have any interest in HL collectibles, you wouldn't be reading this right now. The fact you are reading this indicates you still have an interest in Harbour Lights and we know there are more than two of us here.

smile Bob smile

Re: Another HL Dealer Out of Business #102873 02/01/04 10:45 AM
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I feel that Harbour Lights will still be here in three years, but the way that we know them will change. The L.E. market has been hurting for several years now. All the big sellers have been used up and in three years all the Southern, Pacific Northwest and mid Atlantic lighthouses will have been made.
Harbour lights will continue making L.E.’s but they will just be filling the void for collectors and will not be big money makers.
Harbour Lights sees the writing on the wall and is taking counter actions by introducing new lines of collectables.

Harbour Lights future:

1.The light-up Glows will be their money maker with a whole new line of collectables
2.L.E.’s will again fall to a smaller production amount (except for special lighthouses)
3.All event pieces will be remakes of L.E.’s that already been produced.
4.More and More L.E.’s remakes of Lights that all ready have been produced will be snuck in by calling them special productions.
5.Harbour lights will continue in making new lines of collectable in other areas
6.All new non-lighthouse related collectables will be open edition.


DANIEL
Re: Another HL Dealer Out of Business #102874 02/01/04 12:06 PM
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flacoastie Offline OP
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Interesting subject! I'll be short and sweet on my reply to this subject. I do believe that HL is too smart a company to give up the ghost. What Daniel says makes a lot of sense about diversification and lighted GLOWs. The LE market is getting smaller and smaller and production numbers have got to be reduced to the point that making too many will cost HLs money and making too little will not be profitable. I predit the magic number for both profit and no loss is 1500 to 2000. This would take care of the dedicated collectors and would also leave some to be on the open market. I for one will continue to buy all limited editions for 2004 and 2005 and then I will quit. I retire in January 2006 and will not have the extra money and will have run out of space. I will not store my collection and only look at part of it and have part of it put away. I will continue to buy the Florida pieces if any are left to produce and the Society, Christmas, Regional and In-Store pieces. The rest will be history unless they are special to me. I will have collected for 12 years by then and have a collection to be proud of. I'm comparing my collection to my military service. When it wasn't fun anymore or I didn't like the orders I received, it was time to quit with a good taste in my mouth. The same is true of HL collecting. When your out of space and lower on money, it's time to quit.

PS: I'll still be active on the Forums and still attend Events but will have less HLs to be signed. I might also concentrate a little more on getting variations(green water Michigan City to be exact) with the money that I save from all the new releases.


Rich
Re: Another HL Dealer Out of Business #102875 02/01/04 12:46 PM
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Diversification is the key. Any business must grow to survive. I just hope HL continues with the core business on some level to satisfy the core group of collectors.


Lonnie
Re: Another HL Dealer Out of Business #102876 02/02/04 02:34 PM
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jakescol Offline
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Interesting comments in this thread.

Although the long time devoted collectors will seek out the LE's to "protect" their collections and keep them complete I feel that these collectors are becoming less and less. Economy, costs, room, are dictating the trend. H.L. has to respond to this trend and change their marketing, and production.

We all know how much H.L. has done for the restoration of Lighthouses. But this is based on sales and profits. When the LEs are not on top of the sales list then they have to change to a product that will get as much of the market share as possible.

It first started out with the GLOW's and everyone knows how we have beat that topic to death. Then came the LLOM.

LLOM are what will eventually come to the fore front. Several LLOM have been made that are not LE's or Glows. This gets collectors to purchase those items. Likewise the LLOM's have become very favorable to young collectors who have gained interest into lighthouses through education. When these young people visit a lighthouse and there is a LLOM for sale there, the parents will allow them to buy it verses the Glow or LE.

LLOM are very detailed, a favorable price point,
and sized to allow more in a display case. They are just the right type of item that will sell in the Lighthouse shops as soveniers.

I also believe that if a LLOM is a great seller, and it is not LE. I soon might be.

I doubt that they will ever be retired, therefore it will be a choice to buy and keep but the desire to have all will not occur.

Looking forward to a great summer of Lighthousing and seeing great friends.
Jake.

Re: Another HL Dealer Out of Business #102877 02/02/04 11:31 PM
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Dick Johnson Offline
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I also have found this to be an interesting thread, and thought I would put my two cents worth in. It is always a shame to see a place you have dealt with go out of business, but the facts are that this happens all the time. In good times there are fewer businesses that go under, but there are some none the less. I agree that these stores are closing not because of Harbour Lights sales, but because of a the market. In a downturn economy collectables become a luxury, and stores that sell them have a higher attrition rate than places like bars which do well in the slow economy. People have to make a choice on how to spend their money, and the number of people with disposable income for nonessentials dwindles.

I agree with the statements that HL is a well run company that seems to be able to flow with the market, and although not guaranteed, should be able to weather this market and come out stronger at the other end, albeit they will change. I see more GLOWs (to attract the next level below LE's), more LLOM (to attract the tourist type), more baloons (to attract new markets), more speciality pieces for Lighthouse Depot (to test the waters of similar markets), and probably fewer of the limited editions (which built the business and has a smaller, but dedicated base). My guess is that that although there will be fewer limited editions, the quality of them will increase, and their collectability will increase. I think that HL tried to stay the course with the LE's to make money by increasing the edition size, but found that they couldn't make a go of it with this as their primary source of sales. Thus the edition sizes have dropped in the past couple of years, and HL has shifted some of their focus into other more profitable areas, but has stayed loyal to the LE collectors that built the business.

Since I primarily collect the limited pieces this will probably be to my advantage, as well as the other dedicated collectors. With smaller edition sizes the cost may be a little higher, but the value will hold it's own. A fewer number of pieces released means I won't have to spend as much on collecting new pieces, and continue my fettish to get all of the variations of the early pieces. In some ways I miss the mistakes and changes of the early pieces which gave me something to seek out even after you have one of each number.

Bottom line will HL go out of business, NO. Will their "look & feel" change, YES. Will they abandon the limited editions, NO. Will they be able to continue producing unique pieces, YES (there are a a lot of lighthouses left to produce). Will I continue to collect the LE's, even though I to am retiring in the next year, YES. I have had my doubts about the viability of HL in the past, but they have shown that the Youngers are loyal to their collectors, adaptable to the changing market, and have a vision for the long term. My only concern at this time is what would happen if Bill, Nancy, and Kim were not around. That may be the question, is HL able to continue without the people who built the company? For that I don't have an answer, and don't really want to find out.

Re: Another HL Dealer Out of Business #102878 02/07/04 11:33 AM
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DANIEL Offline
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On ebay I see someone selling Harbour Lights and many other assorted collectibles out of Jacksonville. I wonder if that is the dealer that was going out of business that Rich was talking about? The lights they are selling are the retired less popular ones and more recent ones with a few scattered glows. The ones you would expect to see still on a dealer’s shelf.


DANIEL

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