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The times, they are a changin! #76741 07/24/10 09:56 PM
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flacoastie Offline OP
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As I sit back and check the Forums 3-4 times a day to approve/disapprove potential members, it has come to my attention that the number of collectors, or shall I say non-collectors, is slowly increasing to the point that the Forums are just plain BORING, BORING, BORING. Oh, did I mention that the Forums are about as exciting as reading the ending of a book and then reading the same book from the beginning.

There does not appear to be anyone collecting the lighthouses that these Forums are named after. Except for a dedicated few that still post about the lighthouses that are made by Harbour Lights, all I see are posts that do not relate to the reasons these Forums were created, and that is HARBOUR LIGHT Lighthouses. I review approximately 35-45 new applicants a day, with maybe 1 or 2 being associated with lighthouses in general. the rest are spammers. Whenever I do approve a new member I say to myself that maybe this new member will post and ask questions. This happens only once or twice a month that a new member will post and usually that is to sell their collection that is no longer wanted by them. Even the new members that may be interested in posting have absolutly nothing to post against. And the reason for this is "THE FORUMS ARE BORING!!!!

I'm extremely happy that the 2011 Reunion cruise is going to happen and I wish I could be going but my wife's health is more importent to me then going on a cruise. Besides, I had a fantastic cruise to Southeast Asia back in 1967-68 and 36 months of North Atlantic cruises looking for iceburgs between 1971 thru 1973 so ships really don't turn me on very much. I also had a fantastic year in Yakatat, AK on an isolated LORAN A station and got to see quite a bit of how great Alaska is. You guys are really going to love Alaska and it's scenery. Now, to my point that I'm trying to make and that is simply "I wish that half the excitment expressed about this Reunion Cruise could be shown about collecting Harbour Lights". It just seems to me that we have become a social forum rather then the real reason that this forum was created, and that is for the collectors of Harbour Lights. Color me pesimistic, but, this is what I perceive from the majority of recent posts over the last year or so.

It will be interesting to see how many will read this post, and more importantly, take the time to respond to it with your feelings, and your comments (pro or con).


Rich
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76742 07/24/10 10:06 PM
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Bob M Offline
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We must be thankful for those posters we have. We must realize we have a lot of visitors who just read what's new and move on. That's fine with me. Any type of input is appreciated, whether they collect HL's or not.

smile Bob

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76743 07/24/10 10:09 PM
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rscroope Offline
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It is what it is!

Boring it is not!


LONG ISLAND BOB
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76744 07/25/10 11:40 AM
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wheland Offline
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Rich,

It's not a new subject- interest in purchasing more HL Lighthouses has decreased exponetially over the past 5 years or so with it ramping up in the past 2 years due to the general economy and the personal economies of the individuals involved.

This place has never been ONLY a place to discuss HL creations. It's ALWAYS been a social forum as well. The pendelum swings and things change- although for a number of reasons this Forum will never swing back to being more about the HL creations than about other lighthouse related subjects as well as some that have no direct connection to HL or lighthouses at all.

HL collecting is a mature passion. It's hard to keep things at a high level forever - especially as the number of items to collect starts to overwhelm the space and or money to do so.

In addition the longer an item has been a collectible the more daunting it is for a "newbie" to jump in and replace the older collectors that have slowed down or stopped collecting.

This all has the effect of changing the complexion of these Forums to land more on the social side (which as I mentioned has always been a big part of them).

Boring - at times, sure. Is it happening a bit more - yep. Is it going to change because you don't like it- ain't gonna happen.

Like it or not things like the 2011 Reunion Alaskan Cruise have always been something that excited the collectors and is definitely HL Lighthouses related. Is it related to REAL lighthouses- as much as possible. Is it a SOCIAL experience- you bet it is.

I understand that part of the reason that the discussion of the Cruise does not interest or excite you is that you personally don't care to participate in the event. I myself would love to go on the cruise- Alaska is on my bucket list - but other committments and timing make it not doable for me.

I intend to continue to monitor the plans for the event what happens on the event and the trips people take to and from the event. This type of activity ahs always been a large portion of these forums. There are many people who cannot make the trips themselves so they look forward to the reports and photos other make for them.

Bottom line- I don't think the forums are boring but you are entitled to your opinion. I hope you don't take this last part the wrong way but I don't see things changing drastically from what they are right now so you have to make a choice that suits you- stay here and continue to be bored by what you see or move on and find someplace that excites you.

Dennis

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76745 07/25/10 11:43 AM
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Well said, Dennis.

People are free to not participate. 350-500 people cruise through here every 24 hours. For the vast majority, they get something out of it or they wouldn't bother checking in.

Maybe participation would increase if we 'talked to our members' more like welcome guests and less like children who won't conform to a particular notion of what they 'should' be doing while here.

Bob's "It is what it is." sums it up in five words.

The discussion on the Alaska Cruise/Reunion has spawned a new group on Facebook ( http://tinyurl.com/harbourlights ) Already 29 familiar names have joined the group.

I may or may not go on the cruise. But I'm happy that it has reinvigorated interest in Harbour Lights. I think the idea was a bold move.

Go with the flow. We can't make progress paddling against the current.

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76746 07/25/10 01:00 PM
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beanie I guess I'm one of the newbie's thats replaced one of the burnt out collectors. If only there were more of me.

I can't say for how long I'll feel like this, but I look forward to reading the CF every chance I get. I've been reading them for many years and never originally intended to ever post. I've amazed myself with my posts total. I've always been a low-key quiet person.

I hope and pray HL & the CF are around for many more years. They have been a GREAT joy !!! bow


Stan M
New Jersey Lighthouse Lovers
------------------------------------
Harry Wishlist: Tinicum Rear Range, Miah Maull Shoal, Finns Point, Bergen Point, Cross Ledge, Old Ambrose Lightstation, Romer Shoal, Barnegat Lightship, Liberty Lightship.
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76747 07/25/10 05:47 PM
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flacoastie Offline OP
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Dennis - At least I have had some interest in this post, whether it be pro or con makes little difference to me. Also, I want to come right out and say, no matter how boring the Forums become to me, I still enjoy reading what few new posts we have and don't intend to "give up the ghost".

I also look forward to hearing all about the Reunion Cruise and wish that I could be with everybody. In your above post it was stated "I understand that part of the reason that the discussion of the Cruise does not interest or excite you is that you personally don't care to participate in the event". The reason I can't participate is, as I stated in my original post is "I wish I could be going but my wife's health is more importent to me then going on a cruise". I also stated that "I also had a fantastic year in Yakatat, AK on an isolated LORAN A station and got to see quite a bit of how great Alaska is". So, hopefully that clears up the point about me not caring about the cruise!

John - My intent is to try and encourage new members, and existing members, to post. If they choose not to post or participate, for whatever reasobn, then that is their choice and I'll respect that opinion.

Loon - I wish we had 20 more like you and there would always be some new posts to read. Keep it up and try to clone a few more posters like you.


Rich
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76748 07/25/10 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by flacoastie:
Dennis - At least I have had some interest in this post, whether it be pro or con makes little difference to me. Also, I want to come right out and say, no matter how boring the Forums become to me, I still enjoy reading what few new posts we have and don't intend to "give up the ghost".

I also look forward to hearing all about the Reunion Cruise and wish that I could be with everybody. In your above post it was stated "I understand that part of the reason that the discussion of the Cruise does not interest or excite you is that you personally don't care to participate in the event". The reason I can't participate is, as I stated in my original post is "I wish I could be going but my wife's health is more importent to me then going on a cruise". I also stated that "I also had a fantastic year in Yakatat, AK on an isolated LORAN A station and got to see quite a bit of how great Alaska is". So, hopefully that clears up the point about me not caring about the cruise!
Rich,

First counter point-

"Dennis - At least I have had some interest in this post, whether it be pro or con makes little difference to me. Also, I want to come right out and say, no matter how boring the Forums become to me, I still enjoy reading what few new posts we have and don't intend to "give up the ghost". "

I'm sorry this statement makes no sense to me- how can something that you find boring give you enjoyment. It seems to me to be a contradiction in terms and something that just can't coexist. I only continue to pursure things that bore me that I have no choice but to do so- the forums are not something anybody has to do so to me if someone continues on participating in them then they cannot truly be that boring.

Now onto your second counter-point to me-

"I'm extremely happy that the 2011 Reunion cruise is going to happen and I wish I could be going but my wife's health is more importent to me then going on a cruise. Besides, I had a fantastic cruise to Southeast Asia back in 1967-68 and 36 months of North Atlantic cruises looking for iceburgs between 1971 thru 1973 so ships really don't turn me on very much."

It seems clear to me that again you state two counter intuitive things. You open with your wife's health and then continue to seem to say regardless of her health that you have no desire to be on a ship at this time. Been there, done that is how I read it. It seems to me that even if your wife's health was not involved you would not go on the cruise. This is how I understood your comment and responded to that interpretation.

Lastly I concur with John in that while your intent may be one thing your tone is not the best way to accomplish what you wish. You are certainly entitled to your opinion and position on how the forums are utilized for yourself but lecturing others on the proper way to do so will not in the end make the change in the forums you desire.

The main reason for this is that these Forums have never been exclusively about Harbour Lights and collecting it's wares. That has always been the main thrust but it also serves as a jumping off point for the rest of what always happened on these Forums.

I will continue to participate and respond to topics that interest me and that I feel I have a legitamite right to involve myself in. I don't get into most of the discussions of the new items or of purchasing more product because I'm just not doing that now for various reasons.

I tend to participate in the areas you seem to think don't really belong here- real lighthouses, trips to, photography of, etc. I will also tend to pipe up when subjects like this come up or related topics like why is the participation level down, why are sales and new collectors on the wane, etc besause I beloeve I have a legitimate opinion in these areas.

I'm not sorry if my level of participation does not meet with your standard. I will continue to participate in the same way I have for a number of years. I hope you do the same but would hope that you would stop judging me by your standard- and seemingly finding my participation lacking in your opinion.

Dennis

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76749 07/26/10 01:45 AM
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The Cape Cod Store.com Offline
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Although Harbour Lights is the reason I joined the Forums, it is as much the discussions of lighthouses and lighthouse preservation which I find compelling. True, I'm a dealer of HL's and have learned a great deal from the members here about collecting which has helped me tremendously within my business, but I also think lighthouse discussions go hand-in-hand with the collecting of Harbour Lights. Without lighthouses, there is no Harbour Lights. And Rich, doesn't collecting HL's become more exciting when one knows more about the history, background, and current happenings of those HL lighthouses within one's collection?


Roland Babineau
The only true Harbour Lights dealer left in the world and the ONLY retailer in the world authorized to sell Harry Hine's lighthouse collectible line!
http://www.thecapecodstore.com/harbor_lights.html
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76750 07/26/10 02:39 AM
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Oh, it's been a few months...time to take the dead horse out and start beating it.

Seriously, if I were a first-time poster, and I came to see this thread, why on earth would I want to post on this forum? Right off the bat, it makes us (or at least some of us) look arrogant and conceited.

I didn't join this site for the Harbour Lights content. Back in December 2002, I wanted to have a place to talk to other lighthouse people about trip planning. I was 12. I wanted to hang out in "The Map Room" and get ideas for trips to drag my parents on. (Now I just go solo, much easier.) My second post, which I don't really need to dig out because I don't really like to read stuff I wrote years ago, said something to that effect.

I have a few Harbour Lights. I bought the CF exclusives and a few society pieces, the Bailey's Harbor Range. Quite frankly, the other day I was cleaning my room, and I put them all back in the boxes. I'm trying to sell all but one piece, my Sea Girt, which I have arranged to donate to the permanent collection at the Sea Girt Lighthouse.

So I'm trying to get rid of a couple pieces of sculpture that, quite frankly, I see as excess at this point in my life. Putting aside the fact that I can't move these "rare" pieces for my life...I still have no intent of leaving this site.

Why?

Because over eight years, this place has become a family to me. And it's because it's a social place. There's a really amazing dynamic here that has lasted for a really long time. I have met people who I have talked to on the CF for years face-to-face only once, but that one time we picked up immediately as if we'd known each other forever. Because we have. It's a really, really special forum, and I don't see this kind of thing on other sites I'm on.

Does it MATTER whether we talk "enough" about Harbour Lights sculptures? Let's face it...it's 2010. The golden days of HL are long gone, and quite frankly, talking to people from outside these virtual circles, there's more discussion on "when are they going under" than anything else. I hate to be harsh, but from what I've seen in the general lighthouse world, Harbour Lights are on their way to irrelevancy.

The fact that this forum is not solely reliant on the discussion of Harbour Lights is the reason it has not become irrelevant. I come here, even though I don't have much interest in HLs anymore and I can talk to many of these people on Facebook, because this site has a DYNAMIC. That's worth a few minutes out of my day to devote to it.

Do I find stuff boring? Yep. I call it "the top half of the page." That's me. But the bottom half, the "bricks and mortar" stuff and the "social forums" stuff are why I come.

I hate to be blunt, and perhaps a bit of a jerk, but I'm getting really sick of these preachy posts coming up every few months about how "things aren't the same anymore." Nope, they aren't. Things change over the course of fifteen years or so. The Collector Forums are a totally user-driven community, totally at the mercy of the whole body of membership. Maybe the users are driving it away from the bits of resin and into the bits of bricks-and-mortar.

So thus it's irrelevant now?

Show me another lighthouse forum that still has the kind of activity this one has on any level. The only other contender there ever was has become a ghost town. If this type of attitude continues to prevail on the Collector Forums, we'll be next.

Oh, and I seriously wonder how many more members would post if they weren't welcomed with a lengthy and blunt sales pitch for Wisconsin Point...

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76751 07/26/10 03:33 AM
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Don't hold anything back, Greg. LOL

You got it all right! 100%. I'd say something about 'youth will out' but you've always been more mature than some us -- even when you were 12.

Thanks for your post, Greg. Hopefully we can now BURY or CREMATE this horse instead of hiding it in the closet and dragging it back out every few months to beat on it again!

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76752 07/26/10 09:25 AM
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Bob M Offline
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I will never fault anyone for expressing their opinions at the CF, even if I'm contrary minded to their individual views.

Like all collectibles, our beloved Harbour Lights have taken a hit over the last decade. That seems odd because the product itself just keeps getting better.

The CF is no longer driven by the collecting of HLs but rather the friendships established through the collectors at this site. The Youngers brought us all together with a product that focused on the plight of our often neglected national treasures, lighthouses. They did their job well, and carried the torch for as long as they could. They were truly the "Keeper of the Flame", and thanks to their efforts, the flame will forever burn.

Does anybody know of a better networking site of mutual interest that fosters friendship among people as compared to those sites that are strictly informative? Each person who posts here, or each person who reads what is posted here is the CF. May this site and those who support it, carry on for many decades to come.

smile Bob

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76753 07/26/10 12:08 PM
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Lighthouse Loon Offline
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eek Sure have to say we struck a chord with a few CF members with this topic !!! bash


Stan M
New Jersey Lighthouse Lovers
------------------------------------
Harry Wishlist: Tinicum Rear Range, Miah Maull Shoal, Finns Point, Bergen Point, Cross Ledge, Old Ambrose Lightstation, Romer Shoal, Barnegat Lightship, Liberty Lightship.
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76754 07/26/10 02:31 PM
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flacoastie Offline OP
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I have to agree with you Loon. It's good to see the Fog Signal Building as it use to be!


Rich
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76755 07/27/10 09:33 AM
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I'm not so sure that boring is the right word. The CF will never be the same as it was. I don't think there will ever be the excitement of chasing down the piece we'd never thought we would find. There was so much to learn back then. Everything in life changes, it's what you make of it.

Cathy

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76756 07/27/10 11:16 AM
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Lighthouse Loon Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by catzb1:
I don't think there will ever be the excitement of chasing down the piece we'd never thought we would find. There was so much to learn back then. Everything in life changes, it's what you make of it.

Cathy
For us newbie's it's still exciting. I find the CF a great resource for my HL collection. And the Trading Post has been PRICELESS !!! I've been in the hunt for a few rare HL's that I'm close to acquiring.

If the the CF Trading Post wasn't here, we'd only be left with Ebay !


Stan M
New Jersey Lighthouse Lovers
------------------------------------
Harry Wishlist: Tinicum Rear Range, Miah Maull Shoal, Finns Point, Bergen Point, Cross Ledge, Old Ambrose Lightstation, Romer Shoal, Barnegat Lightship, Liberty Lightship.
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76757 07/27/10 12:44 PM
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rscroope Offline
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15 active topics this morning!
towel


LONG ISLAND BOB
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76758 07/27/10 01:59 PM
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Way to stir the pot Rich. Seems you got folks posting. smile Sometimes a little perceived controversy gets people going.


Melody
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76759 07/27/10 02:23 PM
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flacoastie Offline OP
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I'm taking a lot of heat, but, it's worth it. It's the most posting I've seen in a long time. I just hope it continues.


Rich
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76760 07/27/10 04:28 PM
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I try to read the forums twice a week or so. Then there is always some new things to see. I don't post often because I was burned by people for expressing my opinions on a couple of subjects.
Having said that, I have always enjoyed the forums for the social networking and lighthouse information available, not just the HL stuff. As seagirt noted, developing relationships within the forums made going to the reunions and other lighthouse trips fun because you could put names to faces, especially if each person had there Connected Collector's badge. It is like looking for that one HL you need, except you are looking for that one person you have always hoped to met.
It is through this path that my wife and I have meet some great people and formed some great friendships. We may not see each other often, but these forums give us a connection.

That's my two cents worth.


Randall Ronne
President - Colorado Lighthouse Collectors Society
New Dungeness Light Station Association
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76761 07/27/10 09:48 PM
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I have found this to be a very helpful site related to lighthouses. Lots of questions, suggestions and information has been shared. Additionally, like Greg and Randy said, it has been great meeting people in person from the Forums. Some topics are of interest and some aren't but that is the beauty of the Forums--something for everyone! Randy don't let your negative experiences stop you from posting. It has happened one time or another to all of us. There are so many great people on this site and we all are part of the lighthouse community.

It is great to have this site whether or not one collects H.L. For those of us who do, it is nice to be around folks who don't think we are looney for spending our hard earned bucks on the little replicas that take up so much of our household space!

This site is keeping the lights burning and for now we are excited to be looking forward to being together on the Alaska cruise.

Judy

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76762 07/28/10 06:57 PM
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rscroope Offline
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I echo what everyone has said for many years which is the unwritten business plan for this website - "A meeting place for GREAT PEOPLE interested in lighthouses!"


LONG ISLAND BOB
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76763 07/28/10 07:30 PM
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I echo))))) your echo))))) Bob!!

It is what it is!

It is what it is!

It is what it is!

It is what it is!


Onward to The Land of the Midnight Sun!
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76764 07/31/10 01:34 PM
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If we're measuring interest by postings, here, I've posted.

Rick

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76765 07/31/10 06:56 PM
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flacoastie Offline OP
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Rick - Interest is not measured by the amount of posts that you make. Rather, it is measured by the information and questions that you relay and ask of others. Whether you post daily, weekly or even monthly is not as important as when you do post that the post be informative to others. This make others think about their reply even if it is contoversial to the original post. This is what I meant when I originally made the statement about these Forums being boring. The fact that a member makes a post about something and then gets 2 or 3 replys makes the member feel what is the use of posting when no one is interested enough to respond.

A good example of this is the reports that Daniel used to put out monthly on Ebay prices. I'm sure that it took him several hours of research time and then a couple of hours to actually make the post. While I'm sure that many members and non-members read his posts, I would venture to guess that only 5-6 replied with their interest to it and it usually were the same ones each time.

I realize that interest in Harbour Lights collecting has dropped drastically since 911, and even more since the economy crunch, but that still shouldn't keep interest in what values are doing from being expressed. Each time a new batch of lights come in I wonder to myself about throwing money away on something that looses value faster then a new car being driven off the lot but I love the product and am compelled to buy them. And because I love the product I'm am becoming alarmed over the diminishing lack of interest in Harbour Lights in general.

With the economy continuing to be bad, jobs being harder to find and the lack of lighthouse interest declining over the years, I expect that Harbour Lights may also be on it's last year or two of manufactureing these magnificient replicas. They started at issues of 5,500 and then up to 10,000 and now they are starting to have a rough time selling 1,200. Another good example is our first exclusive of 500 was sold out within 4-5 months of issue and here we still have over 100 left of our second exclusive after 3 years. The interest (especially money) is no longer there and so goes the way of the Forums in most respects.


Rich
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76766 08/01/10 01:32 PM
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And there you have it Rich. The reasons why you felt like 'boring' was the word to use in your first post.

It isn't boredom that is at work here, it is all the other things that you, Dennis, Greg and others have mentioned. I think the common denominator is that, for many HL collectors, life has moved on in one way or another. And left HLs and maybe even lighthouses in the rear view mirror.

I also agree with Randall. Despite all the well intentioned efforts to make people feel welcome here on the forums, it hasn't always worked. And before anyone takes offense, I'm not offended by this. It happens whenever and wherever groups of people gather. Not everyone sees things through the same lens.

When someone new appears, and posts more than a HL For Sale offering, it seems, to me, my opinion, that the degree of welcome and the inclusion in the social fabric of the forums is often influenced by the degree of agreement for pervailing idea(s) of what is 'right' for HLs to be doing as a company. And by extension, what is 'right' for HLs collectors.

Like Randall, after a few times of posting and getting either a less than conversational response, or, as in my own expereince, no response, it is clear that for some reason, the connection is broken. So, no further posts happen.

These forums were always as much about the social connections afforded to members as they were about the collecting of HLs. And like all social gatherings, it has evolved over time as the membership has changed, and as alternative methods (like Facebook, etc) have become available.

Way back when, perhaps even on the AOL chats that were the forebearers of these forums, it was apparent to me that HLs, as a business and as a collectible, would have a lot of challenges with the business model that they had.

That is a conversation in and of itself, but the net is, not enough inventory of lights to reproduce as LEs (never mind popular LEs), too much inventory when measured by the number of annual releases and too many concessions to what I consider to be a vocal minority of collectors. I think those concessions contributed mightily to the difficulties that HLs faced while trying to expand their sources of revenue beyond LEs. And forced even more dependence upon the LE collectors.

Imagine if the number of releases had been one every other month instead of somewhere in the high teens every year? How many collectors would still have room to place a new acquisition? How many would still find rooom in their personal budget for six lights a year instead of 18? How many lights that John Q Public had actually heard of would we still be looking forward to?

So, here we are. Circumstances, collectors and HLs alike, have evolved. It is what it is, and it will be different yet again as time passes.

Rick

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76767 08/01/10 02:27 PM
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sandy Offline
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Nicely stated, Rick. Thanks for posting.

Sandy

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76768 08/01/10 05:09 PM
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flacoastie Offline OP
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Great summurization Rick. I do agree with what you said 100%, and if I had used any other wording but "boring", we probably would have only had 5-6 responses instead of 27 responses.


Rich
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76769 08/01/10 07:48 PM
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RMau Offline
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You may be right Rich. But other than rehashing the same-old, same-old, what has been accomplished?

Yes, it is nice to see an active thread in the old FSB. But I don't think any new ground has been broken. I don't think potential new collectors are going to say 'Wow! I want some of that fading collectible.'

I think all we have done is put another nail in the coffin of that poor horse mentioned above. Although I'm perfectly willing to be proven wrong.

Rick

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76770 08/02/10 09:22 AM
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Bob M Offline
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Quote:
You may be right Rich. But other than rehashing the same-old, same-old, what has been accomplished?
As we age our recollection of things may not be quite as good as when we were young. Talking about subjects that were covered many years ago is like talking about old times. Plus it gives the newer members a chance to enjoy what we enjoyed many years ago.

smile Bob

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76771 08/02/10 11:34 AM
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Lighthouse Loon Offline
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Funny how many keep talking that the end is near for Harbour Lights. Kind of reminds me of a beloved aunt who kept telling us she was about to die. This went on for almost 30 years.

I think as long as Lighthouse Marketing turns a profit, we'll be seeing HL's for another 10 to 20 years. Yeah, they'll make less and less every year, but they'll still make them. There are so many lighthouses yet to be done. True most are obscure, but with more and more awareness of lighthouse restorations, these lights are getting a following.

I've come to realize there are more HL collectors that are non-members of the CF, then are members. Many folk out there just want to keep to themselves about their collecting, or just look for news on this board to keep up with the latest releases.

And I think LM would make a great mistake to stop producing HL's. They are a big draw to their website. We may even see the production number drop below 1000 frequently in the near future. That's OK by me, as long as I get one.


Stan M
New Jersey Lighthouse Lovers
------------------------------------
Harry Wishlist: Tinicum Rear Range, Miah Maull Shoal, Finns Point, Bergen Point, Cross Ledge, Old Ambrose Lightstation, Romer Shoal, Barnegat Lightship, Liberty Lightship.
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76772 08/02/10 01:41 PM
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RMau Offline
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Quote:
Nicely stated, Rick. Thanks for posting.
Thank you Sandy.

Rick

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76773 08/02/10 02:57 PM
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RMau Offline
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Quote:
As we age our recollection of things may not be quite as good as when we were young. Talking about subjects that were covered many years ago is like talking about old times. Plus it gives the newer members a chance to enjoy what we enjoyed many years ago.
Bob, I agree with you. But I think the effect on newer members and others would be better if the topics we dredged up time and time again were ones that showed the joy and anticipation of collecting that we all once had. But here again, a lot of the thrill is gone. Screwpile lights on metal legs? Done. Fresnel Lens? Done. Lightships? Done.

There are still a few with that passion, you among them I think. Daniel with his market updates is another. Rich and Loon too. But I can't say the same for me. Although I try. I've added a few push pins to John's lighthouse map at google recently. I was surprised that so many Florida lights were still not done. And there are more yet to do.

I still collect. The Florida lights since I moved here. But there was a time when I knew exactly what lights I had, what lights were coming and what lights I'd like to see. Not so much anymore.

To a couple of Loon's points, I think (and I've said it before) that HLs future lies in cultivating collectors who specialize in some subset of lights. A state, like Florida for me. A region, like Lake Ontario lights. Or lights that the tower has been climbed. Or lights with 2nd Order Fresnels. What ever.

An approach like that makes many of the 'things' we lament about HLs more manageable. 'Collect them all' is much easier if 'all' is a smaller set. Budget is easier to set aside. Intimate knowledge of your collection is easier to know (and show off when visitors see your lights!).

From what I've seen, HLs has made a few attempts to prompt something like this. 'Gone But Not Forgotten' was one of them. Grouping the lights by region in some of the brochures was another. But by and large, I don't think the effort was consistent over time. Unless, it was the Little Lights or the Glows that were supposed to be the foundation collectors from which LE collectors would evolve.

Were there any 'start collecting with LLOM and add your favorite LEs as your collection grows' efforts? There very well could have been and I just didn't see them.

Net is, we each have to make our own 'thrill' when it comes to our collections. Whatever form our collections take these days.

Rick

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76774 08/03/10 11:26 AM
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Lighthouse Loon Offline
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Rick, I agree the collector that collects them all are far and few. The most common collector is the "by region" or "by state" collector.

The problem is Harbour Lights doesn't release them with this is mind. They are randomly picking what they believe are "interesting" lighthouses. They have or are close to putting some collectors to sleep.

The interesting lighthouses will sell when bought as a second item when a collector buys the latest release for the state they collect.

IMO, Why not release, atleast every other year, a lighthouse from every coastal state. Keeping everybodies interest going.


Stan M
New Jersey Lighthouse Lovers
------------------------------------
Harry Wishlist: Tinicum Rear Range, Miah Maull Shoal, Finns Point, Bergen Point, Cross Ledge, Old Ambrose Lightstation, Romer Shoal, Barnegat Lightship, Liberty Lightship.
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76775 08/03/10 02:37 PM
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flacoastie Offline OP
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Loon - By doing what you suggest would lead up to 25-26 issues a year. You would have 5-6 from the western States, at least 5 from the Great Lakes, 3-4 from the Gulf states and 11-12 from the east coast states. This would lead to another glut on the market, not to mention an expense that most collectors could not afford and also the expense to scrap or sell at discount from Harbour Lights. It's a good idea, but, to satisfy only a small number of collectors it doesn't seem feasible from my point of view.


Rich
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76776 08/03/10 05:19 PM
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Bob Ott Offline
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Loon,

I totally agree with Rick's response.

bobo

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76777 08/03/10 06:13 PM
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Lighthouse Loon Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lighthouse Loon:
IMO, Why not release, atleast every other year, a lighthouse from every coastal state. Keeping everybodies interest going.
Rich, & Bobo, Not every year, but every other year. You read my post wrong!

And some states like Indiana, Illinous, & New Hampshire can't be included as there aren't enough lighthouses.


Stan M
New Jersey Lighthouse Lovers
------------------------------------
Harry Wishlist: Tinicum Rear Range, Miah Maull Shoal, Finns Point, Bergen Point, Cross Ledge, Old Ambrose Lightstation, Romer Shoal, Barnegat Lightship, Liberty Lightship.
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76778 08/03/10 06:44 PM
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rgurskey Offline
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Quote:
To a couple of Loon's points, I think (and I've said it before) that HLs future lies in cultivating collectors who specialize in some subset of lights. A state, like Florida for me. A region, like Lake Ontario lights. Or lights that the tower has been climbed. Or lights with 2nd Order Fresnels. What ever.
I do collect a subset of lights; the ones that I have actually visited. However, I have seen lighthouses all over the country. The current issue scheme works well for me. There is usually one or two that interest me.

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76779 08/08/10 08:31 PM
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Angels Gate Offline
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As a new collector of Harbour Lights (since November of last year) my concern for the Company is not the economy in general, nor the number of new releases each year, tho I believe all would benefit by fewer. Before I state what I believe will be the most damaging factor of all to KEEPING new collectors, let me mention one thing MOST collectors have in common: they see a collectible (theme) and buy it; then they want to go back and get the rest of the ones they saw in that store (or SITE); THEN they want ALL the pieces that company EVER MADE! So far, so good. Ebay makes it possible to do that, but it may not be long before comparisons become inevitable. Comparisons between the old and the new. Though it seems to be a subject no one wants to talk about, it is hard to believe that I am the only one who feels the new releases suffer drastically when one tries to display them in the same room as the pieces from years past. I know the small size has been defended as an economic necessity so the price won't become astronomical. But has anyone else tried to display the newest lens anywhere near the rest of the lenses? Am I the only one using my Fastnet Lens as a toilet paper dispenser? It isn't just small. It APPEARS chintzy! And, oh by the way, it is one of the more expensive lenses yet. I, for one, never suggested that they keep the PRICE down, but if they don't keep the QUALITY up, they will lose ONE new collector, anyway. I LOVE LIGHTHOUSES, and I contribute to the restoration, care and maintainance of several of them. I think the Harbour Lights replicas are stunning in their beauty and detail, but I worry that the LEs will be indistinguishable (in all but price) from the Little Lights soon, and therefore hard to tell from some of the Lefton miniatures I bought many years ago. They already are the size of the GLOWs. If fewer releases came out each year, an increase in price would not hurt new collectors or old, and they could make them the size they used to be. It was the size and quality of the pieces in the catalogue that hooked me, not the price. Don't charge MORE for LESS. Offer FEWER PIECES for MORE money if that is what must be done. Surely there are 1,200 lighthouse lover-collectors left in these United States who can buy a better replica for a little more money, and the issue size could go back up because people would have more time to buy fewer lights. Many others have already suggested fewer releases, and maybe no one there is listening. I truly hope they listen soon, because I love the product, tho it may not seem like it, I do. I have bought all the available 2010 pieces except the Narcissus (from my dealer) and will buy the rest, in the hopes that NEXT year, or the year after, I'll be able to say, "Oh, THAT was the year they made them tiny!"


Angels Gate
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76780 08/09/10 01:01 AM
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Lighthouse Loon Offline
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I agree with you Angels Gate about the shrinking sizes of many LE's. I made mention of it on the CF a few times. I'm sure that quite a few collectors were lost because it.

IMO - Hopefully HL will see there mistake and correct the size along with the font on the tent cards!


Stan M
New Jersey Lighthouse Lovers
------------------------------------
Harry Wishlist: Tinicum Rear Range, Miah Maull Shoal, Finns Point, Bergen Point, Cross Ledge, Old Ambrose Lightstation, Romer Shoal, Barnegat Lightship, Liberty Lightship.
Re: The times, they are a changin! #76781 08/21/10 12:25 AM
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RMau Offline
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Hi, pesky contrarian again.

I can see the 'same money for less lighthouse' logic, but I'm not sure I agree.

If I fire up the 'way back machine', one of the early lines of collectible lighthouses was by Cheryl Spencer-Collins. The lines claim to fame was that each sculpture was in scale to the others. In other words, the tallest real lighthouse was the tallest CSC replica.

I liked that idea and wished that HLs had done the same thing. It isn't the per replica size of HLs that I watch, it is the relative size of representations of similar lights.

For instance. New Canal, LA is a nice sized, early in the line sculpture. Then there is St. Joesph Pt., FL. The two real lights are similar in architecture. A square building with the lantern room in the center. The HLs replica's are similar in rendition, the building and not much more. Yet the actual mass and footprint of the St. Joseph Pt HL is substantially more than that of the New Canal HL.

There are other examples of this sort of thing in the FL and NJ lights. And I expect that there is little to be done about it at this stage of HLs life. But overall, given the issues with numbers of pieces in general, I'll take smaller (to a point, I don't want my collection to be all LLOMs), so I can display more in the available space.

Rick

Re: The times, they are a changin! #76782 08/21/10 11:26 AM
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flacoastie Offline OP
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Rick - I also would have liked sizes similiar to how CSC produced them. In fact, when I started collecting lighthouses I planned on buying CSC exclusively but after seeing the detail on HLs I switched. Cost was also a factor with HLs being a little bit less expensive then CSC. I guess I opted out of the size issue to realize the cost savings.

I AM GLAD that HLs has started producing smaller footprints due to space constraints. I just recently added 2 additional shelves to one of my last 2 cabinets that have not already had shelves added to them. This gives me room for approximately 40 more lights. Of course this should fill up fast as I'm expanding my original 38 lighthouses trying to buy the different variations(countries, rods, nor rods). I didn't realize when I started but of the first 38 lighthouses there are approximately 130 variations.

With this being the case, the smaller footprints in the current production pieces helps me out. I have one more cabinet that will hold one additional shelf of 30 lights and then I'm going to decide to quit or fill my closets with additional pieces. LOOK OUT CLOSETS!


Rich

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