I've put this thread here so that people can discuss the various nominations for the 2005 Wacko Badge and do their politicking for their favorite Lighthouse of the 5 nominees.

Here's a link to the info about voting-

http://www.lighthousekeepers.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=000249

I have an opinion as to which one I'd like it to be and why but I'm not sure it would be a good idea for the person counting the votes to share that opinion. Wouldn't want anyone to think I was cooking the books so to speak.

Remember- Vote Early, but not often!

Dennis

Dennis,

In reply to your request, I voted for:

Pottawatomie, WI

Why?

The 2005 Reunion is being held in the Great Lakes area.

Pottawatomie, WI is a beautiful lighthouse.

We can help get the light installed.

I used to live in Wisconsin.

bobo

bobo,

All very good reasons to vote for that particular Lighthouse.

I hope people have taken the time to use the links that I provided to go look at each Lighthouses site- there are probably other sites where you can get info on each light. I didn't want to overload people with information.

The votes are "pouring" in. I'm not going to be posting early returns- just the final count. Don't even think of asking me privately- unless you have a great bribe.

Dennis

I just wanted to let everybody know that I am replying to everyone who votes so that you will know that your vote has been counted.

Please contact me if you do not get a reply to your e-mail vote.

Dennis

Dennis,

How much? (Just kidding.)

bobo

I think it will be pretty obvious who I voted for -- Cedar Island.

There are some exciting things planned for this lighthouse, and being selected as the 2005 Wacko Badge would be a great way to top it off!

Thanks to those who supported Cedar Island's nomination. And good luck to each of the five finalists. They are all deserving of this honor.

And as tempting as it may be, sorry Dennis, no bribe! :p

My vote is for Cedar Island too - Could you guess?

Please even if it's obvious to everyone who you are voting for don't post it on the Forums.

Thanks,

Dennis "I Don't Take No Small Bribes" Whelan

I still don't want to mention my choice or my reasons for it but I do want to mention one thing.

I got an e-mail earlier this afternoon from ron foster which he sent out to an undisclosed number of people urging them to register on the forums and then vote for Avery Point.

I replied to this message that while I felt it does not break the rules it bends them as much as possible.

I have sent e-mails to people who have identified themselves as Champions of the other Lighthouses and forwarded a copy of this e-mail and have requested that they send out a similar e-mail to rebalance the playing field.

I hope you make it clearer to your supporters that they have to follow the rules a set here in the forums. I have already gotten a number of votes that don't count because the voter has not read the rules and voted in the proper manner.

I do not agree with this concept but feel it is only right to make this post and to send the information directly to other groups.

I guess next time we'll have to make sure to have a date that people have to register by so we won't have what I term ballot stuffing.

All of the lighthouses involved are worthy causes and deserve our money- only one can get it.

I would hope that people would take a look at the websites for all of the lighthouses involved and pick the one they think deserves the money the most- not just because the are a member of NELL so the have to vote for Avery Point or a member of WILD so they have to vote for Pottawaotomie or a member of the LI Chapter of the USLHS so they have to vote for Cedar Island, etc.

Vote your informed choice.

Thank you,

Dennis

Dennis,
I am a member of NELL and received the email but I still have not made up my mind as to which one I will vote for. I appreciate additonal info on the lights as all five deserve support and the decision is not an easy one to make. I admire Ron's enthusiasm and dedication and wish more people would support the lights like he does. Thanks for reminding us to check the web sites and to follow the voting rules. It is helpful especially for those of us that are new voters on the Forum. Judy

Judy,

Don't misunderstand me. I understand where Ron is coming from also. He's a great supporter of Lighthouses in general and New England ones specifically.

I've had the pleasure of dining with him on several occasions- somehow they were all Lighthouse related.

I wasn't intentionally singling him out and I surely wasn't personally attacking him.

I only ask that people make an informed decision like you intend to do.

Dennis

Now what do you do if you belong to more than one of those groups?

I just want to remind people of one thing...the lights that do not end up winning this year may come back on the '06 or '07 badges. Espous Meadows, the '04 badge, was a major candidate for several years, but got voted out slimly each year. One of these five will get the ultimate gift, but others should not give up hope - you have gotten the ball rolling with a large percentage of Wackos, and those that have voted for the winner this year may swing toward a repeat candidate next year.

Whatever the outcome, kudos to whoever thought of this project. It is wonderful and I appreciate being a part of the process even if it is a hard decision!! Thanks Dennis and Greg for your responses. We'll never run out of nominees, that's for sure!
Judy

Trying to make up my mind ..... all the nominees are deserving and wish they all could win.

How long will the polls be open for the vote.

Dan

Dennis, you make it sound like something wrong was done when I sent an email urging folks to participate in this vote.

You state that "it does not break the rules it bends them as much as possible."

I'm not sure what you are saying here. What rules are being bent? Are you saying that people should not urge others (via email) to participate?

You go on to say "I guess next time we'll have to make sure to have a date that people have to register by.."

What makes this Forum great is participation. There are many folks who enjoy this site every day but who don't register. I think that your idea of setting a date you have to be registered by, in order to vote, may keep some folks from ever registering and participating. I think it is important to continue to encourage participation.

Although I am the immediate past president of NELL, and use the NELL logo here when I post, I am also a Co-Chair of the Avery Point Lighthouse Society (APLS). APLS is very excited about being one of the final 5 lighthouses to be considered for the Wacko Badge.

I mentioned, in my email, that there are five finalists and "the Avery Point Lighthouse Society (APLS) hope that you will cast your vote for Avery Point lighthouse" but the choice is, of course, up to each individual. I encourage the people to go to the website to learn all about this, which includes links to all five lighthouses.

I go on to say, "Once you have made up your mind as to which lighthouse gets this years preservation fund from this event please follow the instructions and vote." Again, this is encouraging participation.

I end the email by saying, "Thank you for your consideration". I am happy that people may take the time to visit the Forums, maybe even register and participate in the voting, maybe even choose Avery Point.

The most important thing is that whoever becomes involved is a lover of lighthouses. All lighthouses are deserving of our attention and the lighthouse community is growing with each day. Let's continue to save them together on a positive note.

Ron
(CT Keeper)

Ron,

I'll attempt to explain my position a bit clearer for you.

I'll start by reiterating that I was not persoanlly attacking or disparaging your contributions to Lighthouse Preservation. I also do not think I was being negative. I was citing my opinion of your actions.

You are correct that you added all the right qualifiers to your e-mail but the botom line of it is you want people to register on the Harbour Lights collectors forum not to discuss Harbour lights or even Lighthouses in general- you want them to register for one purpose only and that is to vote for Avery Point. You can surround it anyway you want but that is your main purpose of the e-mail

I will agree that Avery Point is a deserving Lighthouse. I am also a member of APLS and have made personal and memorial donations in the past to this fine cause.

I have no problem with it winning the Wacko Badge competition. I would just prefer it not be by what I termed ballot stuffing.

There was a rule at the very beginning of the Wacko Pin project that required those who voted for either the nominations or final choice to be Wackos- meaning that they had 50 or more posts on the Forums.

The reason for this was two-fold.

One - it allowed those who actively participated in the Forum to be the arbiters of the winner of the donation.

Two- it kept just what is occurring now from happening.

I have no objection to anyone registering on the forums for the reason that the forums exist- to discuss HL and lighthouses as well as whatever might come up in the non-lighthouse forums.

I do object to a mass registration to just vote and run. It's not fair to the people who participate before and after the voting process.

I did send you e-mails directly and got no further response from you so I acted in the fairest manner i could think of and tried to make the playing field level again.

I did so in the open and above board. I nstill feel that you intent was simply to add to the number of votes for Avery Point and I consider that to be breaking the spirit of the rules although it does not break the letter of the rules.

I will say this- if there is a 2006 Wacko Badge the rules will be adjusted to acount for this action.

I want to close by again stating that I mean no personal attack on you- I would have the same reaction if the WILD group or the LI Chapter or any other group did the same thing. It may be within the rules but it just isn't fair.

Dennis

Judy,

I apologize for accidentally deleting your post and replacing it with mine.

Please edit this back to your original conten.

Again I am sorry it was a mistake and totally unintentional.

Dennis

Just out of curiosity, Dennis...how are you posting under Judy's name?

Greg,

I thought i had clicked on the quotes option but apparently I had clicked on the edit option right next door.

John added me onto this Forum as a Cruise Director for the duration of the voting process.

It seems that I edited Judy's post to oblivion. This was truly not my intent. I apologize. I'm still new to this Cruise Director thing and made a simple mistake.

Dennis

I deleted my input from Judy's post and am renetering it here. sorry for the confusion.

Dennis

Judy,

I don't intend be heavy handed. I guess I'm just not making my objection clear. I have gotten e-mails mostly in support of my position

The Wacko Badge project is a fund raiser done by the members of the HL Collectors Forum every year. I agree that it's always a good thing to get new members onto the Forums. New members mean new thoughts and new discussions- always a good thing.

I guess my objection is to the idea of encouraging people to join with the basic intent to vote for the Wacko Badge- and specifically for one of the contenders. Yes all the right words were put around that thought, but the bottom line is to vote and as an afterthought if you want participate, but remember to vote.

This is why I think the entreaty satisfies the rules but is still not playing fair.

As for the public "slap on the hand" I tried to get a response directly from Ron but have still not gotten one and I tried to not make it pointed personally at him. I stated clearly that I would be objecting to a similar request from anyone- John Chidester, Dave Hannum, Bob Muller, Suzanne Murphy or even you.

I guess I'm just not being clear but I'll try again-

I have no problem with people coming onto the forums or emailing directly to people that are already members of the forum to raise support for whatever one of the Lighthouses they feel is the most deserving of the donation. I only have a problem with sending out a mass mailing to mostly non-members and encouraging them to join with the basic sole intent to vote for a specific lighthouse.

I'm sorry if I have offended anyone with my opinions and statements. I only had the intent of making the choice one that was done as fairly as possible.

I have kept my personal opinion as to which Lighthouse should get your vote so as to not be accused of playing favorites as the vote tally person. I have attempted to be even handed with my comments to this point.

I also have no problem with the vote being posted on the Front Page News section of lighthousing.com. I'm a member of that fine site also. The differnece there is that it's a straight reference to the vote with no direct appeal for a specific lighthouse.


Dennis

So, out of curiosity, what were you going to quote?

I still fail to see why it is wrong for special interest groups to campaign for their favorite.

I also still fail to see why it is wrong for someone to register here so they can place a vote. What would be wrong, would be for long time members not to encourage these folks to stay on and become active members.

Dennis, as to erasing my post...no problem. Stuff happens. And that OBLHS logo looks mighty fine on you!

Also, I figured I legimately received Ron's email, because I AM a member of NELL. If this was back two years ago, you don't think I would have been actively campaigning for BILH to be on the Wacko badge? (which I still wear, even if it was two years ago, and I did purchase last year's)

And to Ron, since the message was erased, the jest of it was that I had received your email too, and saw nothing wrong with anything that you said.

Judy

Judy,

I don't disagree that the e-mail wasn't "wrong" I just feel it's intent is unfair to the voting process.

As I stated I find nothing wrong with people on the forums trying to convince other Forum members to vote for their favorite choice- I find it "wrong" to encourage people to register for the Forums with the vote as the main reason for their registering- no matter how you phrase it. There's an old saying- If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck.

I obviously can't explain it sufficently to get you to see my point so I'll just leave it at this point- we disagree.

As for what I was quoting- I was intending to use the quote to be able to refer quickly to your individual points as it's sometimes time consuming to scroll down to a post when there are a number of them in a thread.

I would safely say- I think- that my position on this subject should not come as a big surprise to long time Forum Members. I agitate about this concept in previous situations and will continue to do so- I many not always be right but I try and be consistent.(I don't always succed in either effort, though)

Dennis

By request, I am reposting this post, which I deleted.

I voted for Cedar Island. It was tight for me between three lights: Cedar, Avery, and Pottawatomie, but in the end, Cedar Island prevailed.

My reasoning? I think a good analogy would be "it is harder to start in motion a standing object than a moving one".

Avery Point is a very worthy project, however, they have begun, and are almost done with, the most important part of renovation. The lighthouse, while still in danger, is now saed, and there is large support for it.

Pottwatomie's only need right now is really a replica Fresnel lens. Although this is a worthy goal, and although it is near the reunion, their lighthouse is stable and is not endangered. They are beyond structural renovation; now, it's just "icing the cake".

I feel that Cedar Island more needs our donation. They have not really begun structural renovation, and a Fresnel lens is the last thing to worry about right now. Their goal is to keep the light standing, and get some major immediate repair work done.

I do not mean any insults to those who have dedicated their time to any of the lights I commented on. I am just giving my true opinion. Please don't take any of this personally...it was a difficult decision for me, requiring a lot of consideration, but I am satisfied with my final candidate choice.

Greg,

Your analogy is great and I agree that the decision is a difficult one to make as all of these lighthouses need the help.

One thing you need to understand is that you do not have to feel badly or guilty about not voting for a different lighthouse than the one you voted for. You are admired for caring enough about all of these lighthouses (as we all do) and for taking the time to participate.

Ron
(CT Keeper)

Dennis,

It is not my style to debate on these Forums or to continue discussions and opinions (which detract from the real purpose) but since you have continued I feel that I need to at least respond as follows:

You state here, "As for the public "slap on the hand" I tried to get a response directly from Ron but have still not gotten one."

You did send me email, which I just went back and read again to see if I missed something. I did not miss a thing.

1. You stated that you disagreed with me sending the email.
2. You said that you would take it into consideration next year and maybe set a date one would have to register by.
3. You said that you hoped I understood that your opinion was not a personal attack on me.
4. You mention that I misspelled your name (transposed the "a" and the "e").

Nowhere in your emails did you say you wanted a reply or that you wished to discuss anything. I respected your opinion and thought it was a done deal. Now you post that you tried to get a response directly from Ron. Balogna!!

FYI, I was not the first one to send out an email asking folks to visit and participate in the voting. When I received it I thought that it was fine. I understood what lighthouse was near and dear to the sender, and I respect them for loving lighthouses, wanting their light to win and getting folks to participate.

Dennis, you have taken some of the fun out of this thread and may have alienated some newcomers by posting your personal opinions. You have diverted attention away from the purpose of this thread. Please, don't belabor this anymore here with poppycock.

I am sorry to have added to the disruption here by posting again but felt I had to respond to Dennis' latest words of wisdom to my detriment.

Ron
(CT Keeper)

Good Lord people--the short version of the Serenity Prayer is

"LIGHTEN UP!!"

Sandy :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ron,

Here's my last post on this subject.

I'll attempt to answer all of your questions.

First I did not think needed to write the exact words please reply to this e-mail. I assumed that if you had anything to say you would have responded. I guess I was wrong.

I agree that your list is correct as to what I stated in my e-mail to you.

I added a smiley face at the end of the remark about mispelling my name. I was hoping that this would help take this out of the realm of feeling it was an attack on you and take it to a freindly discussion. Again apparently I was mistaken. I guess I should have made my statements more clearly.

I could be mistaken again but I believe I never disparaged you personally and in fact made several statements that I respected you for your dedication to Lighthouse and their preservation. I did not disparage your opinions as poppycock.

I would have gladly discussed this with you further off of the Forums if you had responded to my e-mail. I now understand it was my fault that you did not respond.

I again want to state that I in no way am trying to personally attack you but I would have made the same opinion known whoever had sent an e-mail like yours. It was the only one I recieved and I addressed it to you first and then to the list.

I still maintain that there is a qualitative difference between sending an e-mail to a present Forum Member and asking him or her to vote for a person's favorite nominee and sending a mass mailing to non forum members and basically having them signup en mass specifically to vote for a specific lighthouse.I did not and do not state this as a fact- I state it as an opinion. This is one of the things this Forum is about- sharing opinions as well as facts.

I do hope that you will feel free to respond to me directly offlist so we can try and get past this. I will fully understnad if you feel that it is not what you prefer to do but I am explicitly stating that I would like us to discuss this situation on a more personal private nature if you so wish.

Dennis

I have decided to close this thread and start a new one so that we can return to the original intent.

This is an executive decision on my part so that we can get back to discussing why we should support each of the nominees, and why they need our support.

New Thread