Not for nothing, but there's a seller on eBay who constantly uses what I believe are Paul Brady's copyrighted photos, is his auctions. He or she also pictures HL's with lightning rods while the ones being sold do not have the LR.

This seller has 50 current HL auctions on eBay. It appears most every one of them is displaying a Paul Brady copyrighted photo. Can he legally continue to do this? Does a copyright mean nothing?

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

Bob, I guess it depends on if it's worth Harbour Lights efford to stop this.

Whenever I see an auction using Paul's pics, I read the verbage very carefully and sometimes ask questions before bidding.

More often your not getting what the picture shows.

I guess I handle things a tad differently. If I see posts using Paul's photos, I WILL NOT BID.

bobo

hear hear BobO ... And I get in touch with the seller and let him know what I think of the use of those pics. (politely of course )

Margret, the really sad thing is that you and I both know that the seller doesn't care or respect the rights of others or they would not have used the images to start with.

BobM, have you sent links to Tony letting him know this person is lifting copyrighted material from the HL web site?

BobO, you have the right ethics going here! I could understand a novice using one of the images because they realize how good they are, but a major player knows better. They don't deserve your business.

Be nice if eBay actually policed the people who use the service and use what is not theres to use. Of course, I don't think eBay really cares as long as they get their cut of the deal.

Maybe we should fix the auctions!

eBay does have a program for the owners of copyrighted materials. A short process to file your rights with them. Then eBay provides you with a link you can use to report the violation(s) and they will immediately remove any offending items for sale. People who repeatedly violate intellectual rights are banned from selling on eBay.

John,

Has Paul filed his rights to copyrighted material?

Margret,

I've also sent messages to violators. Never did receive a response. Have you? Of course, I'm not always as polite as you probably are.

bobo

Of course I did not ever get a reply. But then DaveH is right, they won't take note of the likes of us. I only do it to get it off my chest - I don't expect any response.

It is a real shame though. This is what make people plaster big lettering all over their pictures to make them unattractive for thieves.
Shame you have to do that these days.

But sending the links to Tony is a good idea! Must remember to do that next time! Poor Tony will get swamped in such emails, there are so many of these thieves. But I guess he is "the man" to do something about this.

I have noticed and been watching this seller also.
The first time I saw one of his listings-I asked the seller if this was an actual photo(I knew it wasn't) and to see if it actually did have a rod. I received an answer of: NO rod.
That was it. I see this seller consistantly using these photos.
I strongly agree with DON'T bid!

As a legitimate Harbour Lights dealer, we have a "dealers" link on the Harbour Lights website, which allows us to use the photos that appear on their web site. We sometimes use these photos on our web site BEFORE the product actually arrives at our store. After each item arrives, we rephotograph it for our web site. We prefer to use our own photos because we feel that it shows the customer that we really do have the piece in stock.

Unfortunately, many of the ebay sellers can use these same photos, because they are also Harbour Lights dealers. The only difference is that they are DGB (Dealers Gone Bad). Many of them are selling brand new releases at half-price or less, and using Paul's pictures to do it. If you check through the Harbour Lights section on eBay, and note the sellers that are listing Grand Island East Channel, these are your DGB. Starting Friday, Isle of Shoals and Point Bonita will begin arriving at dealers, so you will immediately see the DGB start posting and selling them. Most will use Paul's pictures, with the most notable exception being a DGB from Richland, MI who rephotographs them first. Does he/she really think that disguises what they are doing?
Try also asking the DGB for the flag # of the piece, and you will surely get ignored. That flag number points directly to the "real" name of the dealer, and lets Harbour Lights know that they are breaking their dealership agreement.

We, like Tony C and many of the dealers he has talked to, have noticed the upswing in Harbour Lights sales, especially the new set of releases with its lower edition size. We feel that CF members, and Harbour Lights collectors in general, have made the effort to show more support to Harbour Lights dealers. In order to keep this "upswing" going, the DGB needs to be ignored, and put to rest permanently.

Obviously, these eBay "deals" on new pieces are tempting. We say: Go for it, if you feel you need to. We're not here to judge anybody. Just don't credit yourself for helping the Harbour Lights cause if you're buying discounted new releases. The fact that these pieces are allowed to exist on eBay only devalues the piece, and tarnishes the Harbour Lights image.

Jim

I like everybodys comments on this. I feel there are enought of us on this forum to make a difference.

I'm on Ebay almost daily. I will start taking note of the misuse of the HL copyrighted photos and report them as often as possible.

Harbour Lights does a lot for us, let's do something for them.

Jim Awrey is correct: images are available for authorized Harbour Lights dealers' use.

Here are the stated limitations as it appears on the pages describing how dealers can obtain and use these images:

Jim,

Thanks for the above important bit of information. Many times I have asked for the Flag# only to be told that they are "too busy" to look at every flag of the pieces they have for sale. The excuses were abundant.

Of course, I know that was a blatant lie. But I never figured out the real reason. Thank you so very much. I never bought anything from those people.

bobo

I'm glad to see that other collectors and HL dealers have noticed all the "illeagally" posted images of auction items on eBAY that don't really represent the actual item being sold (like so and so from Lutz, FL) and all those darn Grand Island East Channel pieces (from Richland, Michigan) that I thought was suppose to be "soooo rare and limited to 1,500 pieces".

This is a joke, insult and just plain 'BS' in my opinion.

I too monitor eBay practically on a daily basis looking for certain items that I have been trying for numerous months to find. With keeping the phrase "Let the Buyer Beware" in mind, Ebay is a rather great tool to find older HL pieces that many collectors may not have means otherwise to find pieces. But, lately the HL market on eBay is really starting to go to the "Dogs" with the violating dealers and copyright image users!

It's time to crank up the HEAT!!!! I am getting 'tanked' and need to report a few complaints to eBay.....

Well, I got curios about some of these folks. I don't buy/sell on eBay, but will go look maybe once a month or so.

Anyway, one of the people Christopher mentioned must be a real idiot. Unless I'm missing something (or my 7 Foot Knoll Dinner at the Light piece is different from everyone else's) he seems to have stolen the wrong image to use with his auction..... nice try

Dave,

Your "nice try" seller is one of the worst violators. Not only is the picture a violation, he/she refuses to provide the Flag#. I have tried on several occasions with no response.

bobo

I get on e-bay about once a week to see what is listed. I have bought some hard to get pieces. But only buy the ones who accually show a picture of the piece. I only buy available HLs from my dealer. I have also noticed I can buy most of the pieces I am looking for from Collector Forums members by watching the Trading Post. There has been times that a member has e-mailed me because I have mentioned in a post that I wanted a piece. I have also e-mailed folks and asked where can I get a HL I am looking for ( thanks Dave for your help).
The copyright violations bother me so I have found other ways to get the HLs I want.
I would rather buy from my dealer and other forum members and use ebay as a last resort.

I have actually purchased one piece from the "nice try" seller. It was an older Christmas edition that I got for under $13.00.

This was the only seller I have ever dealt with on EBay who wrote a personal email to thank me, AND gave me feedback (positive) BEFORE I had even received the merchandise...or had added my feedback to the seller, which I never do until the article has been received and inspected.

When I added my positive feedback (most deserved), once again I received a thank you email.

Accept for the photos (for which there is no excuse except for ignorance), I can't say anything negative about this particular seller.

Judy
P.S.
I just pulled that listing up because it hasn't been that long ago. The flag# was even listed in the initial EBay listing.

When I first got into HL, I used Ebay as a way to get some lights I was looking at getting. I've stopped now with Ebay, because since reading posts on this web-site adn the problems with some dealers, I just will not do it. I'm more interested in dealing with reputable dealers, even if it costs a bit more.

I've been burned in the past on ebay, not with a HL, but basically a fake operation and someone just took my moeny.

The seller Dave mentioned apparently doesn't preview their own listing, which encourages prospective bidders to check out their 100% feedback rating. But, when reviewing the sellers' numbers at the top we see 97.6% on 39 different feedbacks.

Just another red flag for buyers to be cautious.

There are fewer listings today on eBay when you search for Harbour Lights than a couple of days ago.

43 auction listings were removed yesterday for violating Harbour Lights' copyrights for the photos taken from www.HarbourLights.com.

Another 270 will probably be removed within the next 24 hours. These include scores of images used at several 'stores'.

I'm certain there are also a lot of Little Light copyrighted images being used on eBay, but it's harder to spot those because they don't have the cloud background from the website.

I did notice while looking on Ebay yesterday and today, a few of the viotators have switched to using there own pictures.

John, Great to hear there's a crackdown on these. It helps both Harbour Lights and us collectors trying to get some of the older lighthouses.

Great news! Glad to hear progress is being made with some of these violators!

The latest news is just fantastic! Maybe the rest will get the hint. Don't use our photos!!

Bob

Hallelujah!!

Perhaps we can see images of the actual pieces being sold now with their flag numbers!

Gald to hear and see that eBAY and sellers are starting to take this seriously.

I suspect that HL and Paul are taking it more seriously through John's intervention.

Jim,

You're probably correct.

John,

Thank you for your intervention.

bobo

I find this discussion very interesting because I don't know how these people are getting the pictures in the first place. I have a data base program for listing my lights and it have the capability to hold a picture of the item listed. Everytime I tried to get a harbour lights picture I always got a copy write notice. Only place I've been able to get pictures is from Ebay and then retouch them (Some of them are not very good with backgrounds) or some dealers sites. How are these people getting them in the first place? They know something I don't. All I want is to have a representative picture of the light I'm listing. Oh Well.

Back in '98 when the HarbourLights.com website opened, we used a Javascript that disabled right-clicking on the images and gave those who tried that a pop-up message about the copyright.

When Windows XP came out, while right-clicking still might give you that message, if you rest your mouse on a picture, it will give you a series of icons in the upper left corner which includes printing and saving pictures.

There are other ways of defeating the purpose and saving pictures.

So long as your intent is to add pictures to your personal collection information and NOT to reproduce the images or use them on another website or sell that software with the images, you should be OK.

In the past, a few of the eBay listings actual simply LINKED to the photos at HarbourLights.com.

We're getting down to fewer and fewer mis-uses of the pictures. As of this morning 18 pictures by 8 stores/sellers.

Only two reactions so far from those who had their listings taken down. One was mad, one apologetic.

Some are re-listing with their own photos, some without photos. Commerce continues.

Caveat Emptor!

I have noticed the message when I right click to see the picture. Sometimes the picture does not show, just a square with an X in it. I right click to click on show picture and get the message.

That's good news We should be able to tell what we are buying now IF we are buying.

Well Folks,

As of 2100 on 10/1/07, a total of 28 of Paul Brady’s photos are on eBay – but NOT posted by him. Isn’t there something someone can do? Here are the offenders:

rlg1225 – 3
wakeboyboy131 – 1
jeeperz05 – 1
swedermom – 1
pokerkevin – 18
hot_mamma9203 – 4

That’s a grand total of 28 out of 287. DISGUSTING.

bobo

I guess some people just don't own a digital camera or a scanner and figure they would "borrow" Paul's photos for a week or so.

Another thing that non-connected collectors have to worry about is the fact the pictures are not of the piece they have for sale. I've seen pictures of AP's and lightning rod pieces displayed when the actual merchandise are not AP's and don't have lightning rods.

Is there malicious intent to defraud on the part of the seller? Probably not, but a smile can turn to a frown when you get something you thought was something else.

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

There is an area just for dealers on the Harbour Lights website with images and they are told they can use the images for their own use.. They aren't to use them to represent the actual item that they have for sale but an example of the item..

John is constantly having the images removed from eBay but most of the posters seem to just wait a while and reuse them at a later date..

The only problem I have personally with people using my images is that it is false advertisement since those are my lighthouses and they aren't for sale..

In this day and age of digital cameras it isn't that hard nor that expensive for people to shoot their own images of the actual product that they are selling..