When I was at the New Orleans regional Tony had ask us collectors for ideas on how to get collectors back to the dealers. I promised Tony that I had some ideas and I would get back with him. I have a couple of ideas but for now, I am going to focuss on just one. Since this involves the forums and all of its members, I thought I would run this by here first.
I have also talked to Rich, who loved it, added a few ideas and offered to help.
So here we go. I recommend you read this twice because like anything I do it will be thorough and I don’t want anything missed.

I have followed on this forum how on one hand we cry out that we are to support our dealers, that without them, we hurt ourselves and jeopardize the very existence of Harbour Lights. Then on the other hand when a dealer gets involved on this forum we have a tendency to make them uncomfortable and in some case treat them like second-class members. While my idea does in no way ask members to change, but it is to offer a solution. We can keep the forums how they are but add one feature that will enhance this forum and provide a service to our collectors and help out our dealers.

The solution is to add one more forum topic and per Rich’s idea call it the “Dealer’s Corner” This would be a place that Harbour Light dealers only, could post and all dealers would be welcome. They can list or talk about anything dealing with Harbour Lights. They can post their website and a personal note about their shop. They would have three rules that would be enforced.
1. Only Harbour Light related topics.
2. Only Harbour Lights products. -General Websites would be aloud.
3. Only at retail- (nothing can be discounted) (Higher prices are aloud for retired).

Now before some of you put up your dukes you need to hear me out. The problem that I have been hearing is that dealers have been having less people coming to the stores.
Well as we all know the new age is Internet and with the added problem of higher fuel prices, more and more people are switching to mail order over the computer. Well what ever we do we cannot change the world back to how it was. We need to move forward with the world and in this case ahead of the world. So besides us going to the dealers we will in turn bring the dealers to us.

Rich and I will volunteer to be joint moderators. As new members apply or existing reapply they can provide their dealer name which Rich or I will call the dealer number that is listed in the Harbour Light web, to verify them. In the future Maybe Harbour Lights can provide us with a dealer number that we would check off.

To cover all the bases and to make this fair to all dealers even for those that don’t have Internet, they can snail-mail me and I will post for them. The Dealer’s Corner” will be posted beside the trading post and dealers have to realize that as on Ebay they will be dealing with discounted prices on the forum’s “Trading post”

The advantages of this.

1. This will help get our dealers off of Ebay and give all dealers an equal change at selling their Harbour Lights.
2. Dealers can write about their shop and we can have a chance to get to know them. We will learn more about them and when we travel we will look them up and visit them by name.
3. This will get more dealers involved in reading our forum and to get to know us.
4. Hopefully this will provide us with more reading material and fresh input from another prospective.
5. This will give members and visitor the opportunity to buy first hand from reputable dealers that back up their products instead of buying from unknown ebayers. This will justify buying at retail

I propose a 6-month trial.

I would like to hear from ALL

I concur.

Bob

I like the idea.

DANIEL,

I think your ideas a fantastic. It should work. Go for it.

bobo

DANIEL,

While I think your ideas are great, was it necessary to post it twice?

bobo

This sounds like a good idea to me!

The only downside that I see is that you may want to control the number of posts that a dealer can make in a month. Otherwise, some dealers may try and take advantage with too many posts.

The upside is, that with no local dealers available in my area, I was able to find a dealer on Cape Cod who has given me excellent service by mail.

Let's give it a try.

Lord knows we could certainly use more posts at the CF. I would welcome their input anytime no matter how many posts they submit.

Bob

YES ... great idea! I would love to hear from dealers and I think it would be a good idea!

We have a dealer we are very happy with (even though we can't buy much at the moment!), but I like to hear what others are doing / thinking / selling!

And I am all for giving the dealers that are remaining HL dealers plenty space to express themselves!

So Daniel, great idea! Thanks !!!

sounds good to me!


Cathy

Daniel and I talked quite a bit about this subject after he asked me what I thought and how it would be received by the Forum members. I for one think it is a great idea and a way to get some new blood and ideas injected into the Forum. We have many reputable dealers out there and this could be a way for them to get new customers and for us to meet these dealers.

As Daniel explained, the dealers would have to realize that our Trading Post Forum is ours and we will continue to sell and trade as we have in the past. Whatever we are asking, whether it be at discount or giveaway prices, will not change. On the otherhand, the dealers will only be able to advertise at RETAIL for current pieces(non-retired). Thery will be able to mark up retired pieces if they so desire or may also list them at RETAIL. Prices LESS THEN RETAIL will not be allowed and the dealer will be banned from posting. This should keep Harbour Lights happy and also keep the dealers from starting an EBAY on the Forums. Dealers will be the ONLY ones that can post in this Forum(similiar to the Trading Post Forum) and all communications will be handled separate of the Forums. All dealers will be able to post on any of the other Forums, but, will only be able to advertise on the Dealer's Forum.

A six month trial period is a fair amount of time to see if this will work and will also give us time to contact dealers to let them know about this new feature. I memtioned this to my dealer, who is already a Forums member and hesitates to post, and he welcomes the idea. If we get the go ahead to do this then all of you can contact your immediate dealers and encourage them to join and post there wares(Harbour Lights products only). A dealer can also announce that he/she has an upcoming lighthouse event, a signing, an open autoship number, a much sought after piece, a piece that is being looked for on the Trading Post, etc.

I hope that we can get some support from John and Dave and get this underway on a trial basis. Daniel and I will volunteer to act as co-moderators. This will also allow me to send to the dealers when they apply to join the rules and regulations that they must follow. It has been very encouraging so far with no negative responces so let's hope the powers to be will agree to the new "The Dealer's Forum".

Sounds like it would help. I would support it.

Actually I think we should call our Congressmen to see if they've started working on bailout Legislation to help Harbour Lights and other collectables dealers in these hard times. We don't need anymore dealers closing up. This is hurting the economy! :p

I think this is a good idea. I'd like to hear from more dealers.

Just one point though, I do not believe that an authorized HL dealer is allowed to sell retired pieces as if they were a secondary dealer, i.e. they can not mark up the price.

Some dealers also sell secondary market. Not too many now, but back in the late 90's it was very common. What the HL dealers told me was that if the Harbour Light dealer bought the lighthouse from a provate owner and not from Harbour Lights they could turn around and sell it for more. One dealer told me that they could sell for more, but just couldn't discount it.

With the Trading post next door and ebay just a click away i don't think we have to worry about HL dealers selling high.

Haven't heard hide nor hair from John or Dave on this subject. Hopefully they will see it as a plus for both the Forums and Harbour Lights/dealers. I don't know where John is keeping himself, but, it would be nice if he popped in 3-4 times a week at least and answered our questions. Maybe he's got a new project he's working on.

I doubt a "Dealer's Corner" will help HL sales. The two groups represented by CF active members are those that don't collect anymore and those who have a dealer they are comfortable with. The dealers selling brand new releases on eBay are responsible for what will prove to be the demise of the collectors if something isn't done. And, from what I can see, there's been no real effort to stop them from flooding the market with pieces sold at prices less than what my dealer sells them for.

Let's face it, people buying new releases on eBay aren't doing so because they can't find a dealer--they're going the eBay route solely for the money they hope to save. I'd be willing to bet one of my CH1s that easy access to a local dealer wouldn't stop those collectors from buying from the dealer selling his wares on eBay.

I've had the chance to get a 2-digit autoship in recent months and have no interest. I purchase what I can realistically display in my home. When I started collecting, the only place I could find early pieces was either on eBay or the secondary market advertising in lighthouse subscriptions. I bought new releases from Lighthouse Depot before they were affiliated with Harbour Lights until I stumbled upon my present dealer quite by accident while on a vacation. I return to him for new releases because he offers service unlike anything I've received from any other vendor. If a dealer opened up shop in my hometown, I can honestly say I wouldn't give any thought to changing dealers--loyalty is what results from good service.

Maybe Tony should have asked what needs to be done to get new collectors? or, give me your thoughts on how we get old collectors interested again in Harbour Lights? Answers to both those questions would certainly go a long way to piqueing my interest. The reduction in production runs is the best move thus far. Getting rid of the dealers selling on eBay should be the next best move. Sure, a Dealer's Corner might do some good in ways nobody has thought of yet, but I doubt it will help sales. In these economic times, we're all going to be hard-pressed to find money to put food on our tables and oil in our furnaces.

Sandy

Good Tuesday Morning!

How do we get new Collectors and "revive" old Collectors is an issue that I and my peers discuss all the time! It is not easy!

We have tried several approaches at Harbour Lights; :"Musings" goes out to current Harbour Lights Society Members as well as former members. We have done about (4) mailings to fromer collectors,over the past three years, honestly,the return has been minimal.

I am always open to new ideas!

Since 2006, I have "closed" about (8) discounting Dealers and have written others; reminding them of the Agreement they signed as well as the recent US Supreme Court decision allowing manufaturers to set a MSRP - some have complied, others have given me lip service. I cannot be the ebay police. I do try my best, as I have written at least a dozen time, I am committed to preserving the collectible integrity of the brand,

In the October edition of "Lighthouse Legacy"; please read From my Perspective .. I will be interested in your comments!

AJC

One more thought on Daniels idea: I think dealers would need to register on the CF as dealers and the member status would say this.

My thoughts on helping the Harbour Lights brand is we need to become salesman. If everyone who currently collects HL's gets someone new or brings someone back into collecting HL's, it would make a big difference. Just one person each.

I know these are hard times, and maybe the best thing we can do is just try to survive until the cycle turns upward again.

I think of the movie "It's a Wonderful Life". Gaorge Bailey(Jimmy Stewart) knows if he keeps the bank open during the hard times, everything is going to be alright eventually.


PS - Good to see TonyC posting!!!

Tony - I'm curious as to your thoughts on letting dealers have their own Forum to advertise, sell their Harbour Lights wares, let us know about autoship numbers available, signings etc. I'm not trying to put you on the spot and I realize that the Forums are not part of Harbour Lights, but, I respect your ideas and views and would like your thoughts on this subject.

I join those who favor allowing dealers to post on the forum in the manner originally proposed by Daniel.

Excellent point, Rich! I too would like an answer to your inquiry.

Bob

I have mentioned to Toni about my idea. I meet a lot of new and younger Lighthouse lovers at lighthouse sites and when I mention the harbour lights statues they have no clue. I think they need to advertise outside of this forum. I suggested billboards with eye catching pics on some busy highways. I really think they need to advertise to get the new people out there.

Is there anyway Harbour Lights can get mailing lists from a few of the lighthouse preservation societies, or from folks that sign up for lighthouse challenges?

Don't depend on people accidently finding HL's while buying cards or other collectables in gift shops!

Another angle that hasn't been mentioned is the fact that not all purchasers of HL's are serious collectors. You know what I mean. I mean the people who buy one HL or two, or more, just because they like them. They have no intention of starting a large collection, they just bought a light or two because they wanted them for a variety of reasons. After their initial purchase, they may never buy another one again.

With all the people that visit the coast and view lighthouses during their journey, a small percentage may want a momento of their trip. With smaller edition sizes, many HL's may end up in the hands of non-collectors. They won't be posting here. They won't be trying to sell their items on eBay. They will just put their new treasure on the mantel, shelf or whatever, and throw the box away. They won't care what flag# they receive. For them it will be giftware, a nicknack, and a memory of a visit to the shore.

These are the people Harbour Lights should consider with an advertising campaign, and just maybe a small percentage of them may be repeat customers. They definitely have an advantage over the rest of us here because they don't have the space problem that many of us are confronted with after years of collecting.

Bob

It's now been 3 weeks since this subject was brought up. We have had some communication on this subject but nothing either affirmative or negative from John.

The Forums is averaging 350-375 visitors but only 30-40 of those are registered members that can post. Of the 30-40 registered members, only 6-7 are posting. My personal opinion is the Forums is going the same way as Harbour Lights sales and that is down. What can be done about this? We need to add new life into the Forums and that can only be done by adding new members and new collectors. The registered members are fairly well established with their dealers and collections. New collectors may not have an established dealer and may not even know that there is an established line of dealers across the country that are willing to ship to them and provide autoship or one piece only service.

A Dealer Forum would provide this service and might also keep new collectors from buying off Ebay. Dealers would be required to sell at retail whereas Ebay dealers are selling at less then retail. However, most of the registered members are buying(at least they say they are buying) at retail because they like the security of knowing their dealer will take care of them. I'm sure that new collectors will feel the same.

In a nutshell what I'm trying to say is WE NEED TO GET ON WITH REVIVING THESE FORUMS. If we can't get the old registered members to post, then maybe creating the Dealers Forums will hopefully bring in new members and maybe they will post. Daniel and I are only asking for a 6 month trial to see if this will help. Even though I haven't talked to Daniel since this subject was brought up, I sense that he is disgusted, as I am, with the way this subject is being delayed. John said that he wanted to talk to Tony before he made his decision almost 2 weeks ago. Tony was asked to give his opinion by me almost 3 weeks ago. I kind of get the feeling that this is like politics. If you avoid getting involved long enough, them maybe what you are avoiding will go away.

John has asked me to make this discussion public, rather then hold any discussions in a private Forum. I have held to his wishes.

Personally, I would very much like to hear the Dealer's side of things on a regular basis!

I can't think of any reason why this should not happen. So, if there is a reason, lets hear it and talk about it!!

Sometimes I wonder, if I am the only one who is feeling like this: I have this funny feeling that there is all kind of "stuff" going on behind the scenes and some people are talking to other people and other people are not talking at all - to anyone.

My suggestion would be: Come out into the open and lets talk about it!!!

Well Folks,

I firmly agree that we should open up a "Dealer's Only" portion on the Forum. It would be beneficial for everyone.

bobo

Ditto!

I would be interested in a dealer only forum. I would also like to see more dealer participation in discussions.
It would be nice to know how Harbour Light sales are in general and by each piece released. This info should come from both the dealers and Harbour Lights.

And more Harbour Lights news and hints would also create more posting.

I am in agreement with Bobo and Eric, add a Dealers only forum. What is that thing I see on TV about...the more you know!

Right now I can't see the harm, or did I miss something?

Let's do it! I agree that more information is a good thing. We need to hear from the dealers as we move through this murky time for collectors. Plus dealers need our support and our business.

Go ahead with this great proposal. I can't think of too many minuses and can think of lots of pluses.

I agree. There should be a dealer forum. It would be good to hear from the other side. When you go shopping for anything, do you think about what the merchant is going through on a daily basis with product lines? I have no clue what it takes to make a business successful. There is a wealth of knowledge that should be tapped.

Cathy

There is a lot of support for a Dealers Forum from what I can read. There were no negatives, pleanty of positives and only one that felt it would not help. Remember, this Forum as proposed would be like the Trading Post and that means there would be no correspondance with dealers in this Forum. Correspondance would have to be done via email or in a different Forum. This Forum would strictly be for dealers to sell their wares at retail, to promote an in store event pertaining to HLs or lighthouses, etc. The dealers would be watched carefully for non-compliance to the "retail only" rule and for trying to promote other then HL products, just like our Trading Post. NO ONE ELSE, except dealers, would be able to post in this Forum. Again, Daniel and I could be co-moderators and I can send a "canned" message to the dealers as they register telling them the rules.

I strongly feel that IF and WHEN Tony and John approve the idea that it will be a PLUS for both the dealers and collectors considering we are averaging between 375 and 400 visitors each time period. Maybe, if it is approved, we can get HLs to post the availability of this Forum in their dealers newsletters or by email to their dealers. I hope everyone will keep posting their support of this forum so that when Tony and John read the positive responces, it may help to sway them toward our 6 month(or more) trial period.

Sounds like a new and creative idea for the CF to me. I don't see any disadvantages to the idea and it may have some good positive outcomes. I would support giving it a try and fine tuning it as it gets going. Hope you can get a reply from John and Tony SOON!

I would welcome a Dealer's Forum also. Hopefully, this can be accomplished without to much further delay.

Bill

I believe also, that this would be a good idea. It would be nice to hear about collecting from the other side of the coin.

Perhaps it's time for a dealer to chirp in on this subject.
It's been awhile since I've posted, as it's been awhile since I have even visited the forums. As I've mentioned in the past, I'm not shy about giving my perspective, but have also gotten the "hate mail" from collectors because I am a dealer, (though most of you have been very receptive to an alternate perspective). In fact, it may have been some of my previous posts which may have helped Daniel come up with his idea. Perhaps this isn't the case, but it sure appears as it might have.
As for the dealer forums, I'm all for it. There are many reputable dealers out there, and many of you are already dealing with some of the best. Any good business person will respect those of the competition who are doing a good job and try to emulate many of the things that they are doing which work. I have done this, as I know others have emulated our successful methods. (Look at McDonald's, Burger King, and Wendy's for example). Although some of us have been mentioned in these forums by the collectors in certain posts, (word of mouth truely is the best advertising), the dealer's forum would help us connect to a captured target audience.
There are exceptions to the rule, but most dealers are reputable. It's just that some are better business people than others. The dealers which are selling on EBAY are, I think, for the most part just trying to survive. They are looking short term, just trying to pay today's bills, rather than the long term ramifications of their actions. I'm sure many of these dealers are the ones always looking for that next "hot" product, the "Cabbage Patch Dolls" of the world. These are the ones that "flare", that get that sudden huge "gotta have it" following, then quickly die out, and the dealer moves on. The smart dealer finds something that works on a consistant steady basis, and nurtures and protects that line. Like a smart investor, he's in for the long run, riding the ups and downs but consistently growing.
Many times I've felt that I could help a collector who has posted about a certain HL or a problem he/she has been having with another vendor. Although occasionally I have sent off a private message or e-mail, many times I have simply let it go, respecting the climates of these forums. Although my intention would be to help that collector out, (and yes, I admit, try to develop a professional relationship with him/her on occasion), my motives may be percieved as being only one way, "retailer greed" as I once read in a post some time ago. It is because of that mentality that many of the dealers who visit these forums don't post.
The "dealer's only" forums would help us to introduce ourselves to the collectors here, and although I, for one, am not looking to steal a customer away from another dealer, if that customer isn't happy, he/she will move on anyway. Satisfied customers are loyal customers, no matter what someone else offers.

I would welcome the input of dealers. They are on the frontlines. It seems almost all who posted believe this to be a positive. I , for one, would like to "hear" from a dealer as to what they would consider to be their input.

I would like to see a "Dealers Forum" 1)so I can know where the HL dealers are 2)so I can know of special events 3)so more dealers can stay in business!!

Wow
This looks like we got a good review on this. Even thought it was initially my Idea, Rich has been running with it and because of Rich I don’t see this being swept under the rug.

My idea came from Roland and from talking to another dealer on the phone. The dealer on the phone said pretty much as Roland did, that anytime he would post something he would get back negative email from a forum collector /s. As Roland has said he just doesn’t have anytime for any problems and just stays away.

I feel that this is just not fair. I remember when I started collecting back in 1996 I didn’t have a collectors forums or even knew of a fellow collector that I could talk to and get support from. All I had was my dealer. She walked me through all the collecting do’s and don’ts and which lights I should buy first. She was more then a dealer she was a friend. From the dealer on the phone as also from Roland and other dealers on this forum I have learned a lot of things from a dealer’s point of view.

Well I gave it some thought and I didn’t want to reinvent the wheel. I also believe this is the Harbour Lights collectors forums not to be over run or opinionated by dealers. I respect those collectors that have concerns of dealers participating in a collector’s forum. So I came up with the idea of the dealers having a special spot for dealers. This will be a place for only dealers that will be register as a dealer with the forum. It will be like we having a window to different dealers store without opening the door. This idea was designed not to walk on any toes but to help solve a problem and regenerate a bond between collector and dealer.

One key point is that all dealers that register for this special dealer forum will be equal with all dealers. There will be no super wacko or even super wacko dealer. Whenever they post or no mater how many times they post their Status will always be dealer. This is only fair that all dealers are equal and for our collectors to know if a dealer is posting on the forums. If dealers post on the forums they have to follow all the forum rules. If they post in the dealer forum they will have to follow the dealer rules as listed above.

Well I originally proposed a 6-month trail so that if the majority of the collectors on these forums would want to make changes or even dissolve the dealer forum if the majority wanted.

This is the Harbour Lights collector’s forum and this forum should support and be tailored to what the majority of the collectors want.

I think it is time to hear from our Webmaster in how soon this dealer’s corner can be initiated.

Well John, appears the ball is in your court again awaiting action. Please pickitup ASAP!

And Tony, we're hoping for your comments.

Thanks Daniel & Rich for your thoughtful ideas and hard work on this concept thus far.

It's amazing how much time a person has when they have retired again, or at least for the next couple of months before I go back to work as a contract employee for the company I retired from in 2005. There is plenty of time to stir the pot as a retired Chief Warrant Officer naturely does. I'm hoping to hear from both Tony and John on this idea also. John has had plenty of time to contact Tony as he said he would do. Tony has probably been busy with Christmas coming up and there is no telling where John is so I'm hoping that Tony and John will post soon with affirmative reasons why this will work for the common good of the collector and dealer. As Daniel said above, this is a Collectors Forum, now funded by the collectors through the sale of are Forums Exclusives. With this being said, an overwhelming majority of collectors are in favor of it so it should be a no brainer except for the final details to be worked out. It would be nice if this Dealers Forum could be in place by the Thanksgiving Holiday so the Dealers that do read are Forum can start registering and posting their wares.

PS. The fantastic thing about the Forums being funded by the collectors is we do have a voice in what we want to see and do. John has always listened to the majority of the collectors so this should be no different. However, without the profits from both Forums Exclusives, the Erie Land Light and Wisconsin Point, the Forums may have no longer existed because of our economy. There is still time and still some Wisconsin Point Exclusives left so help us continue to support the Forums and lighthouse preservation by supporting your Forums by buying one, two or more of the Exclusives before it is to late. Go to the Forum for the Collectors Forum Exclusive and you will see a link to order giving you all the information and answering any of your questions. It would be a lot easier if we had the link to the Exclusive at the top of the Main Forum Page, but, with the new software it may not be possible to do. John said that he is working on it.

John has communicated that he will ask Tony today(22nd). Let's hope we get a positive response!

Good Wednesday Afternoon!
Harbour Lights will support a Dealer's Forum, with qualifications:
1.) No discounting
I realize this is an unpopular stand with many on this Forum! I hear from several excellent Dealers, who report members of this Forum go into their stores and "brag" about the discounts they receive from Dealers! I know we all look for a "deal" but this is a different market, in addition 99% of our Dealers, small independent operations that need full mark-up to survive.
2.) This Dealer's Forum is open only to active Dealers, not stores looking to sell out inventory.
3.) Before this "Forum" is established, we need to succes. I am not sure what the standard is to measure the success, it is open to discussion.
Harbour Lights needs NEW Collectors! Collectors are the life of our business! I am not sure this is the answer, but I am willing to try!

AJC

PS "The Lighthouse Legacy" will be published this week - wait until you see the new format and graphics! "The Legacy" comes of age!

Great to hear a response from Tony. I'm sure Daniel and Rich are excited.

I think this forum will help, but agree with Tony about it being the answer.

The ultimate solution has to have more to do with getting new collectors to dealers, not dealers to collectors.

Looking forward to reading this new forum.

Thank you Tony for getting back to us with a "hesitant" affirmative. My initial thoughts on controlling dealers registering are these:

1. When a dealer registers he/she must tell us in the registration form "Location" space their City and State that they are located in.

2. They must tell us the name of their store in the "Occupation" space of the registration form.

3. They must give us their store phone number and owner's name in the "Interests" space of the registration form.

4. Before I approve them for registering, I will call Harbour Lights and verify that they are current dealers in good standing. The dealer list on the HL web page is usually outdated.

5. After they are verified and I approve them, I will then send them an email informing them of the rules they must adhere to such as:

a. Retail only prices for "current" HL products. "Retired" HL products may be sold as secondary market prices dictate, but, may not be sold for less then their original retail price if the secondary market value is less then retail. Dealers may help a collector sell his/her collection as long as the collector does not sell their individal collection piece/pieces for less then retail. If a collector wants less then retail for their collection piece/pieces, the dealer can advise the collector to register on the Collector Forums and advertise their items under the "Trading Post". The dealer is NOT ALLOWED to sell their products on the Trading Post as this is reserved for COLLECTORS. No discounting of HL products by dealers in any way or their membership will be revoked.

b. HL products will be the ONLY items that can be advertised. Products other the HLs will be a reason for revocation of their membership.

c. HL Store events, lighthouse events, store drawings for HL products, notification of availability of HLs autoship numbers or HLs low/special serial numbers and anything else pertaining to HL products will be acceptable.

d. Dealers must post their Store Name and phone number in each of their posts.

e. No individual member posts will be allowed(same as Trading Post Forum) so all communications with dealers will be by phone, email or another suitable Forum. If the dealer trys to discount HL products through emails or phone calls and this is brought to the attention of a Forum member and thay report it, this will be a reason for revocation of the dealer's membership.

f. This trial period is initially for 6 months or a lesser time period if the trial period proves less then successful. The determination on how successful this Forum is and whether to continue will be decided upon by John(with input from the Forum members) and Tony(with input from his dealers).

These are my ideas for the general rules. I'm sure that I have missed some important rules so please feel free to comment. I will send a set of the approved rules with a welcome email to each dealer and hopefully Tony can send a list of the same rules to each of his dealers when he makes them aware of the Dealers Forum in his dealer newsletter or by emails.

Hopefully, to make this happen before the Thanksgiving Holiday, we need your input and ideas no later then Oct. 27th. This is still assuming this will be approved by John. It's now in your ball court John. Hopefully we will hear from you very shortly.

It is great to have Tony's support and that of Harbour Lights and we probably couldn't survive without it (or at least have as much fun). But let's remember the first two lines of this website, "The Collector Forums are provided as a service to Harbour Lights collectors and others Interested in lighthouses world-wide by Lighthouse Keepers. The posts reflect the opinions of the individual. Not affiliated with Harbour Lights or Lighthouse Marketing, Ltd." Those long timers here will remember a time when the dealers wanted our "marketplace forum" shut down because they saw it as competition to the dealers. So Rich is right when he says the decision is John's and he has to make sure that whatever the board decides, it doesn't blur the line between HL and Lighthouse Keepers.

Well said Jim--thanks for posting.

Sandy

It may make everyone feel less intiminated by this if the register dealers were restricted to just the dealers corner and could not post anywhere else on the forum. If they wanted to post on the other parts of the forums they would have to be registered as a collector just like us and follow the collectors guidelines just like some of the dealers are doing right now.

Would that make you feel better about this, Jim and Sandy?

Daniel,

My "feeling better" relates to my not being in favor of this at all. I'm just not comfortable and I can't spell out my reasons. I, thankfully, will have the option of not participating in any discussions that present themselves in that category. As I stated earlier in this discussion, this will open up this forum to unforeseen problems.

I'm obviously in the minority of those that have posted and don't expect that what I've said will change anybody's mind. It does strike me, however, that this will taint this forum and that bothers me.

The dealers have there "special" place on the Harbour Lights' Website. I've posed the question before with no reply from a dealer. That question was and is ; What do dealers "see" as their input?

I would also like to see HL update the dealer list to be current and include website's of those dealers. I realize this will not be a final list , due to the current collectibles market ups and downs, but it has to be better than the current listings

While I'm adding my $1.27 (inflation), The Forum has had polls before and it might be the time to have one for this very important topic. The same people post. A poll might generate more responses.

A poll would be fun and cetainly would get the input from those who don't post much or don't post at all. They may wish to stay anonymous with there views.

In addition to a yes or no choice for having a dealer forum, there could be a choice to have the dealer forum linked to the HL website instead of the CF. After all, CF members are aleady current or past HL collectors. The goal is to get new collectors.

You all
Got to admit.
If it wasn't for this post there wouldn't be much else to talk about.
I have thought of that also. But you would have to have someone man it. How the website is now it isn't kepted up like it use to be.

It might be interesting to see what the outcome of a poll would be. My only opposition to a poll is "Now is not the time to stay anonymous with your views". Now is the time to state your feelings and not be bashful. Our Forums and Harbour Lights are fighting for their lives right now. Of the average375-425 people that visit our Forums, an average 30-40 are members and the rest are visitors. This topic, which is the hottest thing going right now has only had 20 different responders. So while we have 20 members talking about this, it's the same 20. If a poll is posted, and if one of you 20 want to create it, it still leaves questions that have to have decisions made and 1976 members that aren't posting are not going to answer these questions.

This Dealer Forum will be on a trail basis so the plug can be pulled at any time. It may or may not bring in new collectos, it may or may not attract dealers that are willing to try and post, it may or may not bring new members to the Forums, it may or may not help existing members that have lost their dealer find a new dealer, it may or may not keep a dealer that is on the verge of dropping Harbor Lights stay a little longer and finally it may or may not be a bear to control. But, if we don't try different things, we will never know if this is going to be a help or a hinderance. In my many calls to dealers about the WP Exclusive I found out 2 things. Half of the dealers were not aware, or at least they didn't admit to being aware of our WP Exclusive and said they would contact their reguler customers to see if they were aware of the Exclusive and wanted it. The second thing I found out is that 2 dealers had low autoship numbers available and were looking for new collectors to sign up for these autoships. Neither dealer wanted to give these numbers to existing autoship collectors from a different dealer. They wanted new customers. Just think about the possibility of reaching 375-425 potential new customers a day and what that could do to a struggling dealer's business.

Post a poll if you want ,but, out of the 20 different responders in this topic, one is a negative, 2 are hesitant and the rest of the 20 are in favor of a trial Dealer Forum as long as certain rules are followed. Even Tony, who is hesitant, is willing to give it a fair shot.

I am not negative on the concept of the dealer forum, i was really pointing out that we didn't need Tony's permission to do it if we (John) choose to do so. We are not HL and they don't control our content. It is, however, obvious that we are in a co-operative relationship to support many of the same goals. I know that one of Tony's biggest goals at the moment is to attract new collectors. I would suggest that this forum is certainly an educational tool that could help do that. I would also suggest that many of the people who post here and read these forums are those that have supported Harbour Lights for a very long time. So, it seems that it's a benefit to both groups to do everything we can to attract new folks and keep the old guys happy too. So, if John decides that the Dealers should be here, let them post. If it doesn't work out, we can always change course again, as we have many times in the past.

JJ - I didn't mean to imply that you were the negative vote. You were one of the hesitant votes. At least that's the way I read your post. John indicated early on that he wanted Tony's input before he would act one way or the other. And I agree with you in that we can help each other and we NEED to help each other in any way that we can.

I like the idea of having a dealers forum. This would be a place where dealers could let all of us know what Harbour Lights activities are going on at thier locations. I have a dealer that I do business with and that is not going to change. But if another dealer posts that he/she has a special edition LLOM for a local lighthouse for sale at thier store, I am going to buy it. If I ever get to take a vacation again, it would be nice to know if there is something special going on at a store or a near by lighthouse that I maybe going to see.

You are absolutly right.
But because we are a collectors forum and we are propossing to allow his dealers to post on it is Imperative to have Tony's support. In other words we are asking for Tony's blessing not permission. Also We will make sure that there is no problems on harbour Lights side that we were not aware of.

Hang on as we should have some information for you by the end of this week on the Dealer Forum.

For those of you that have not noticed the new Forum, The Dealer's Corner is now active. We will wait for our first post from a dealer. I certainly hope that this Forum increases HL sales and thus maybe renews interest in HL products. We will see what happens.