It is not often tht I feel strongly enough to really sound off (Bitch) about something, especially in writing, but the nerve has been hit.

Last evening I tried to join the chat room. I still believe that this company listens to its patrons (because of the "open edition" vs. the LE lights and the changes that were made i.e. Alcatraz )and hope that the powers that be have read and are considering lowering the production numbers on future issues of the LE's. I would really like to see my lighthouses retain their monetary value as well as their esthetique value, but I stray from my mission.

Back to the chat. I tried to join a group of collectors sharing experiences and have a great time. Maybe so, but this fraternity isn't accepting new members. I listened a while then tried to ask for information about the Rosemont collectors show and maybe start a little conversation. I guess those that are going, know what it is all about and other people interested might be tolerated. the reply to me was, "If you want to go, go" no "welcome, let me tell you about it..." or even anything remotely warmly intended. The question is not the issure, the reception is.
If this is a private party, don't advertise it as a chat room, say it is what it is, the All Saints Meeting so that others may sit at your feet and learn what you wish to share.

I have learned alot from this website and really appreciate it being here, but I just don't understand why a chat room is better than just posting these notes with one another.

Yes, I do intend to go the Rosemont, and look at my Swarovski crystal and Tom Clark figures. I truly hope to meet Bill Younger and the "saints of the web" as Harbour Lights has become an obsession and I am looking for the 12 step recovery program I have heard about. Maybe It will meet at Chicago Harbor while I am there.
Now when we meet, you will think...there's that wierd Witch without a wild idea of how to keep her mouth shut.

For a poor teacher in Arkansas, I'm
"hooked and holdin'on" Suzee

[This message has been edited by SCombs (edited 03-26-99).]

After reading the above post I went back and reread the chat log. It is hard to read and always get someones true meaning. When they are talking their tone tells you a lot. I believe East Point meant don't feel intimidated if you would like to go feel free to go. I think he meant all collectors are welcome whether 1 HL or all of them. I think many of us type as little as possible to try to keep up.
We came to this site when John had it and found it helpful. Still do John! We used R@R all last winter with any extra money and used it again this week. Thanks Sean. We have never met any of these people,never been to a reunion or meeting, not even a signing. Yet my wife and I feel we know these people and have always been made to feel welcome. We have never been to any other chats online and didn't say much at first as we are still really newbies. We have 90-100 lights over the last 18 months.
We came to the chats around last Nov. We are getting braver and typing faster and better.
However, we miss questions to us sometimes because we are typing and didn't see it. Sometimes I noticed we didn't answer when I reread the log later. Not deliberate just missed especially when many conversations going on at once.
If we have a question usually we post it here. The answers are much quicker then waiting all week for the chat. Also easier to follow in the many conversations. The volunteers do a great job and they are just that. VOLUNTEERS I was always told if you don't want someone's volunteer job don't complain or it will be yours.
I have run on way to long. But I think this is a misunderstanding and hate to see good people lost to a great site. Thank you for the floor. Bear(not one of the good ole boys but hope to be when I grow up)


[This message has been edited by pepper17 (edited 03-26-99).]

I am sorry a nerve was hit. Sometimes there are two or three subjects going on at the same time, if no one responds repeat what you want to say. I have repeated myself several times before I get a response. I read the log and it sure doesn't read to me that anyone ignored you in fact it, what your answers and statements looked as though you were very much a part of the chat. Attached is a small excerpt starting with your Rosemont question:

Suzee Tell me about Rosemont. Are newbbies allowed or is the show just for good ole boys?
JohnChidester 14 Bob
JTimothyA New Point Loma is probably the smallest?
BobM Are any of the Society pieces ready for shipping?
Carmandos So the old ones are slow sellers
JTimothyA that is the NPL mini
JohnChidester Maybe Tim
tnkeeper Any insights on the surprises mentioned for society members?
lvhrbrlts john how many releasese do you think there will be this year
Art Yes Carmandos
JimJohnson 1 not all of them
JTimothyA depends on whether you count it as an LE
JohnChidester Everyone is welcome on 'collector days' at Rosemont - Sat/Sun. Thu/Fri is for dealers.
Stephen Not including minis. only full-sized sculptures.
EastPoint If you want to go Suzee, go.

The following link takes you to the rest of the chat log:
http://www.HarbourLights.com/chatlogs/mar_25_99.htm

You might also like to read another person's response about last night's chat.

http://www.lighthousekeepers.com/forums/Forum17/HTML/000032.html

Finally everybody is welcome to the chats and more than welcome to participate, in fact John is talking about having a newbie chat for those who haven't been chatting for years to become more comfortable. My wife has always told me not to read anything into something that is said on the Internet, because I would probably assume something that really wasn't there. Maybe your next experience will be better. Rosemont is great don't miss it. John in the chat gave you some information and there is a forum where I posted a link to the company handling the Rosemont Show this year.

http://www.lighthousekeepers.com/forums/Forum24/HTML/000003.html

Paul L Brady

I joined the chat a little late last night-about 7:40 PST. I loved it! I have been on birding chats and music chats, and they weren't much fun. Alot of confusion or just dead. The HL chat was a great experience. I felt very comfortable and I really felt like I met a bunch of friends who were interested in HL and LH just like me! I can't wait till the Blue Moon chat next week! I felt like I was involved in the converstion and this was my first HL chat! I just discovered the HL site on Mon. I already feel like part of the gang. I am definately a wacko-in-training. I was really happy to know that I'm not the only one out there that feels like this about HL and LH! I know I'm not crazy-just wacko!! I saw Suzee on the chat-when I joined the Rosemont issue had already gone on. I didn't know about it. I saw her, but she didn't say much, and when there were just 3 at the end, I thought maybe she was the moderator making sure we didn't get out of line or OT. Being that it was my first chat, I really didn't know! I thought she might not want to tell how many HL she has or why because she's been over it 1,000 times with other newbies. I certainly never meant any harm! Hopefully she will join the Blue Moon chat and try again. I don't know about Rosemont, so I can't add to that thread. But I try to type and enter fast enough to keep up-if I do know a little bit about something. The only way to learn and get to know people is jsut to jump in sometimes (and I know I make a fool of myself sometimes, but that's a Dove for you!)

Keep the Flame!!!

Suzee,

I'm really sorry you feel this way. I think that the posts above have covered the reasons why you perhaps did not get the response you desired, and I agree with most of those reasons. I hope to see you again at another chat. Give it a chance.

Here are some things to consider in using the chatroom:

(1) Try addressing specific questions to specific people. For example, say:

"Art, Tell me about Rosemont. Are newbbies allowed?"

Now, not knowing the first thing about Rosemont myself, maybe I could help to link you up with someone (at the chat or otherwise) who does. Many general questions and comments go unanswered because that's the nature of a chatroom. If someone knows the answer, they will usually respond (if they see the question asked and are not in the middle of another conversation). If not, they hope someone else will know the answer and pick up on the topic. If a topic is not addressed to a specific person, everyone might think it's a part of another, ongoing topic. There are usually multiple conversations going on simultaneously, and it's impossible to follow everything going on in a busy chatroom. So, if a topic appears and it's not a part of the conversation you are following, you tend to just let it go. The chat just flows, riverlike. You attach yourself to some topic floating by, ride it a while, then jump to something else. A lot of topics go by untouched by anyone. It doesn't matter who started the topic. It's equal-opportunity neglect, and it's a part of the experience.

(2) If you ask a question to a specific person (or even a general question or comment), be patient. You might need to ask several times and in different ways to get a response. Remember, everyone is frantically typing. In my case, that means looking at the keyboard instead of the monitor -- I'm not a touch typist. A lot gets past me during a chat. I always need to go back and read the log to make sense of it all.

(3) Come early. As much as 15 minutes early. Then you can ask specific questions one-on-one and not get lost in the shuffle.

(4) Stay late. Same logic. Take advantage of pre- and post-frenzy periods. This is the best time to make new friends.

(5) Always give others the benefit of the doubt. These are good people. Sometimes things said rub me the wrong way, too. I accept it as having gone over my head, as being taken out of context, or as someone's humor that escapes me. Let it go and go on to the next topic floating by. This is not a rude or hurtful group at all. Quite the contrary, in my experience.

FWIW, I joined my first chat in September 1998, years after the first "Good Ol' Boys" achieved Wacko status. I felt very out of place as I logged on the first time. I decided to just "be a fly on the wall" for a while, but within 10 minutes I was drawn into the conversation, and never looked back. As a Newbie, these folks really welcomed me and my (frequently dissenting) opinions. We are like family, and everyone is welcome.

Hope to see you at the next chat.

------------------
-Art

Suzee - Art took the words out of my mouth.

In another thread, someone asked why some chats start at 9 PM and others at 10 PM. I set those times because different people have responsibilities that won't allow them to make a 9 or a 10 PM.

If we set a chat time to start at 9 pm Pacific Time, our East Coast friends would have to set the alarm to wake up at midnight. If we set it for 9 pm Eastern Time, some of our West Coasters will still be commuting home at 6 pm.

The AOL chats were tried on different days and times. For a while we had a Sunday afternoon chat, that worked in the Winter. But with Summer came fewer and fewer participants as the weather got nicer.

In looking at the use logs for HarbourLights.com, I note that Saturdays & Sundays are the days we have the fewest visitors - it usually peaks on Wednesday or Thursday.

Let me know what we can do to make those new to the chat room feel more welcome.

John

To all the fellow collectors who have responded to Suzee's post with all the helpful info., I want to say thanks -you people always come through-.
However, I agree with Sean.
It would be nice if some people spent as much time thanking individuals for their efforts as they do in condeming them. Maybe firstimers, if not satisfied with their first experience, should TAKE THE TIME to find out the little nuances of the chats and of the bulletin boards before ripping them. But for some people thats just the way it is.
I'm sorry Sean feels the way he now does, I enjoy chatting with him and all the other friends and collectors. There is at times, many different topics being discussed and it is very easy to miss some of them when you are responding to another. I guess the time has come for the 2 or 3 person chat. That way nothing is missed, everything is addressed and the chats will even be "politically correct." See you at the next chat.

Sean - I know it gets frustrating at times, but don't give up. You're in the CG and I retired from it. Many times in my 23 years, I had to remind myself that part of the reason for being in the service was to defend the "right" of folks to publicly criticize me. I was a Bosn 4 and CO of 2 stations, so caught lots of criticism.

Just like your R @ R service, I always came back to the fact that 99.9% of the time, I was greatly appreciated by the folks that I provided service to. I appreciate your Coast Guard service as well as R@R. If you've gotten tired of doing it, or you just don't have enough time, I understand leaving, but don't do it because someone vented their feelings. Hang in there and remember, I still owe you a dinner if you ever get as far North as Eureka at the upper end of the state.

Rich

------------------

Suzee, I am sorry that you felt slighted or ignored, but as the above posts explained very well, chats can be very hectic and it is easy to miss things. Like Art said, I too have to look at my keyboard to type, so I miss things all the time. I read the chat logs regulary though to catch up on what I miss. Speaking of missing, I miss an awful lot of chats, but reading the chat logs, I have seen no evidence of anyone being intentionally ignored. Let me ask you, and all newcomers to the forums to just be patient and not to jump to any harsh judgements of anyone. In no time, you will be as much of a "good ole boy" as anyone else. In my opinion, there is not a person here in the forums who would not do anything possible to help out a fellow collector. Just give us a chance.

-Todd



[This message has been edited by Todd Shorkey (edited 03-28-99).]

SCombs, Suzee, my name is Rick Mau and I was EastPoint on the Thursday chat. I want to apologize for offending you with my answer during the chat. I was not trying to be curt, flippant, dis-respectful or impolite. I was just responding to your question asking "Are newbbies allowed or is the show just for good ole boys?". What I wanted to convey in my answer, "If you want to go Suzee, go.", was that you did not need permission from anyone in the HL community to attend.

I wanted to send this to you directly, but there isn't an email address in your profile. Please accept my apology.

Rick

Man I just love this forum. The more time I spend here, the closer I feel to everyone. The above replies prove how concerned everyone is when there appears to be a problem. The speed and number of replies proves my point. On chat rooms I have attended I have found out the hard way that sometimes you have to read through the type to get a full understanding of the answer. It's tough to type, read and answer all at the same time. I've never been to the HL chat yet (pre-warning to everyone). Whenever I figure out how to get out of this hole, I'll be there.


Digger

This too shall pass.

"Hang in there Sean." Maybe it was only 99.8%, but I know it was most of us. Smiling helps.

Rich

------------------

Now that I am the resident bad guy, feeling much heat, and not much love, let me further expand/explain my above post.

Let me make this clear: In no way was I calling Sean's ethics or motives into question. Pepper17 (Bear) says it well above in his post: "It is hard to read and always get someones true meaning. When they are talking, their tone tells you a lot." I think many have taken my comments the wrong way, not knowing me, or who I am, or what I believe in. In no way was mine a personal attack on anybody. I am going to chalk it up to a bad misunderstanding and lesson learned. Reading my post again, I can see where it is easy to take it out of context, and I will be much more careful in the future with my choice of words.

I apologize publicly to you Sean, if I have offended you or hurt you in any way. I too have removed my comments from the forum and apoligize to all for the forum contributors and readers if I have offended anyone with my comments.

To all of the Saints, Cruise Directors, Wackos, and everyone else that makes these forums what they are, My deepest thanks for a job well done and for your hard work.

-Todd

I'm Baaack Please allow me to express my heartfelt and sincerest thanks for all the responses to my somewhat short-tempered message.

I have been assisted a great deal by these message boards and the H/L website and do TRULY APPRECIATE all the help from other collectors. I have been set straight on what to expect as well as not expect from chat sessions.

John, you mentioned that you might consider having a newbie chat, that would be WONDERFUL because, just like teaching year after year, session after session, the information maybe old stuff to you, but it is new and interesting to others. Perhaps just a forum heading for newbies with FAQ's would work. I'm only suggesting as I am barely qualified to get to the site, much less tell you how to run it.

Sean, I regret asking the same questions for the "millionth" time, but it really was my first time to ask. I had been to the Rosemont discussion site and was hoping for more information from previous attendees. Stuff that doesn't make the official PR releases like, what to bring, can I actually meet BY or Kim or Nancy? Are there any sanctioned meetings,or any casual gatherings which are open to newbies, or are all the meetings for established collector clubs (the good ole boys). Like most everyone on this posting, I too have used your R@R list and purchased from your recommendations. Please rethink your position of limited activity as I would like to continue to read your work.

Dove, Thank you for helping me by expressing the opinion of another newbie. I went back and reread the chat and saw that you stayed later to really enjoy the activity.

Art, Wow! I have learned a bunch from your posting. Maybe now I can function in a chat room with my head out of the sand and, thanks to Pepper, my feelings back in my pocket and not on my shirt sleeve. Art, if I had known to be here early as you suggest, I would have noticed that someone mentioned a collector that had bought a Hilton Head at a yard sale for $80.00. That collector was me! And I am sure I would have had a much different picture of the party. I will now take your advise and get to the room early. (As soon as I can get my son to bed.) If I had put on my thinking cap instead of having another glass of wine when I started to get upset, I would have realized that only 7% of communication is in words, the remainder is in body language, inflection, tone, etc.

Rick, Please don't feel that you have offended me. I'm sure much of the tone I put into your message is based on past experiences, and I should know not to judge a lighthouse by the sound of its horn.

Now, to one and all, Pepper, Dove, Kaiz, Sean, Rick, Art, Saints John, Paul, Peter, Timothy, Newbies, Wackos, Cruise Directors, and any missed saints,
Please forgive my bellowing and allow me to express my grateful appreciation for your kindness, thoughts, and hard work. I know you do truly care about collectors such as me, or you wouldn't take the time to respond. Can you give me one more chance?
Hooked on HL
Suzee

Now if we could just get the millions of people who waste money on shrinks to spend all of it on HL's and join the forums to learn, have fun, and vent frustrations, the world would be a better place and problems would be solved much quicker! (and our collections would inevitably become more valuable!).LOL

---

-RodW
[This message has been edited by Rod Watson (edited 03-28-99).]

Sean - How come you haven't found me a SE Block Island LE at retail price yet.
(Just didn't want you to think you can please everyone all the time.)

Rich

------------------

Gee, I'm so glad we're all still friends. Group hug everybody!

See you at the next chat?

No grudges,


------------------
-Art

Suzie,

Welcome to the HL Family. We fight, spat, and argue at times but love each other. I'm a newbee also and love this forum.

Never met any of these members but love the chat when I can make it.

From Tidewater Virginia where azaleas are finally in bloom.

Moby

Well, I'm glad we've worked that out! I just wish Sean and the beaver were happier! I just discovered the R@R and I'm considering trying it. I think it's a great idea. I'm thinking of going back to a store where I saw a Fire Island and a few other retired pieces, just to submit them to R@R. I think that's what you can do-if you find 'em-post 'em for others to complete their collections. I had no idea this group existed, and now I can't wait till another reunion to mee all of you! I plan on going to the BY signing in Roseville, CA in Sept. if anyone else might be tere. I know we have a few CA folks in the HL Forum Family (HLFF?) Hugs everybody!!