What is becoming of the Forums? It seem like over the last 6-8 months there is no life in the Forums or it's members. There are no more heated discussions in this forum, no more wild predictions in the Rumor Mill Forum and no more polls. I looked at this morning's visitors(or any day at any given time) and the number is usually under a hundred. I can remember when 500 visitors was a common number. It's the same people posting day in and day out and eventually we are running out of topics. How often can you replay the same topics such as New Year's resolutions and roll calls for the states. We have increased in members but these new members Never post except to sell their lighthouse or lighthouses that they have inherited. Why don't these members post? Is it because the posting of the older members are BORING!!!! I am really getting concerned when I see older members that were regular posters not participating anymore. This has nothing to do with GLOWS, balloons, re-introductions of previously produced lights or ships. It has to do with the dwindling interest in lighthouses in general by the majority of Forum members. With over 1300 members, we should still have 400-500 visitors at any given time. I predict if John were to look at the membership roll and eliminate any member that has not posted in the last 6 months we would be left with maybe 100 to 150 members that made a contribution. Of the 100 to 150 members remaining, I predict only 50 to 75 members have posted over 50 times during the last 6 months. Without multiple new posts each day how can the Forums survive? We are becoming a buletin board for birthday, anniversarys and non participating members to sell their wares. I used to visit 5-6 times a day and now am down to 2-3 times on a weekend and usually 2 times during the week. Just how much time should a person waste logging on to the Forums to see only 3-4 new posts? It seems like the most active posts are in the card exchange section of the forums. Maybe we ought to change the format to a Personal Columns Format rather then a lighthouse format.

I've spoken my feelings and it will be interesting to hear other members feeling on this. That is, if anybody takes the time to read it(I know the active participants will read and respond) as I also know that the so called lurkers will not. Come on you lurkers and prove me wrong. Let's hear some ideas on how we can revive this soon to become dead Forum.

I check the CF several times a day. I start with my early morning visit after showering, then again during my five minute break at work (several times, cough, cough!), I check it again when I come home from work, and then again after supper. The CF is one of the few sites I actually visit every day.

Many of our older regular posters have drifted away. Many of our newest registered members are readers and not posters. That's all part of life.

When things get stale, you replace them with fresh things. That can be tough when nothing really changes. The more things change, the more they remain the same. It's one of those "six of one, half dozen of another" things.

If it wasn't for the Collector Forum and the efforts of our webmaster, I would think there would be a lot less interest in Harbour Lights. A dedicated and connected collector needs a place to go to share those warm and fuzzy feelings that come with finding that special piece or bargain at times. We need this place to organize our thoughts and set our priorities when it comes to one of our favorite things to do with our expendable cash.

Harbour Lights is more than just a collectible, it can quickly become a way of life. It brings smiles to our faces. It leads us to get together with other people who otherwise we would walk past without saying hello. What good are warm and fuzzy feelings if you have no one to share them with?

Personal Private Message to those who haven't posted in a long while: Get off your lazy lethargic butts and create a few new topics and post more. Get out of that Lazy-Boy and go out and take some pictures to share with the rest of us. This is your place on the Net. Don't let that ever be forgotten. End of Private Message

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

Things change. I now have Big Brother watching my terminal activity during the day. And I agree with Bob when I do sign in there's not as much activity as in the past. Even tougher is getting to weekly chats. With so much covered over the years here, it's tough to come up with a new observations but I'll try.


Bob

"Now the years are rolling by me,
They are rocking evenly.
I am older than I once was,
and younger than I'll be,
but that's not unusual.
No it isn't strange,
After changes upon changes
We are more or less the same.
After changes we are more or less the
same."

Copyright © 1968 Paul Simon

The extra 5th verse to the famous Simon and Garfunkel song, The Boxer


Firstly, I can't exactly voice an opinion comparing today to the "good old days" as I was not here then. But I will say that I learn so many new things every day on this forum. I see cool photos, get the latest lighthouse news ripped right from the headlines, get a few good laughs, and overall have a great discussion with a bunch of really good people. Yes, there are not that many people that post in comparison to the total membership, but this place has also been around forever. There are members that may have joined way back then and then forgot about the forums in the passing years. Or there are lurkers, who, though they may not post, still enjoy reading the threads. Just because they don't post doesn't mean that they shouldn't "count" as a member.

Also, I have seen some members who waited a bit before posting. Perhaps they are a little nervous about trying to join a well-established community as this. So they read for a little bit, and then make a post. Then they become obsessed with posting (or not) and turn into regular members. I know this as that was once me. I waited almost 2 months before making my second post (my first was one about the NJ Challenge that was the reason I joined, but then I stopped for a while until my snow day marathon of 49 posts in 24 hours...I wanted an avatar! )

So those are my views. And so we have just a few active members. Those few are all good friends that would be immobilized without this site. I sure don't know what I'd do if I lost my forums...probably have a complex or something... :rolleyes:

I'm on several sites similar to this, just a different interest. The same thing happens there as is happening here.

There is an ebb and flow to things, although it is probably a bit lower interest level than has been in the past.

These things will pick up again when there are new releases, etc. It's difficult to keep coming up with new slants on old subjects.

I agree that there is a general lightening up of interest in Lighthouse both in the General Public and the little society we have here. This will change here as we get back out to our Lighthousing when the weather picks up.

It will probably never get as active as it was at it's peak, but that's life- things change, sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse.

All this said- the new members should jump in and get their feet wet. You have something to add. It's probable that you know something we don't and have something to add that we will find interesting.

Dennis

I too been concerned about the lack of participation in the Collector Forums recently as well. Thanks Rich for bringing this up.

Here are some stats to ponder:

• 1,309 - current number of registered members
• 219 - number of those members who have posted anything since July 1, 2003
• 361 - number of registered members who have NEVER posted
• 871 - number of registered members who have posted 1-5 posts (500 of these have not posted in the last year)
• 234 - number of registered members who have achieved WACKO status (50+ posts)
• 46 - number of registered members who have achieved Super WACKO status (500+ posts) - included in the 234 above
• 29 - number of registered members who have 1,000 or more posts (included in both WACKO and Super WACKO counts)

Have we answered ALL the questions that HL collectors might have? And are those with unanswered questions too intimidated to ask them?

Is the interest in Harbour Lights declining? And/Or is the interest in Lighthouses declining? Or is the uniqueness of our concern for lighthouses becoming so mainstream that we no longer share the affinity?

Is Harbour Lights diversifying into Balloons and other variations of lighthouses discouraging 'hard-core' collectors?

Is the state of the economy, or our personal finances, or the state of America at war affecting our interests?

Are the Collector Forums dominated by people like myself who has almost 8,000 posts and a few others who have 1,000 posts or more? Does this make it less likely for those who have 6 or 26 or 56 posts to want to participate?

Some may recall that during the last few months of 2002, we raised support money for the Collector Forums by selling panoramic prints of Gary Martin's photograph of Grand Haven at Sunset. 100 prints were sold raising a net of about $1,800 which underwrote my costs for the dedicated server.

I didn't repeat this program for 2004, because, frankly, I wasn't sure that there would be 100 people who were still interested in the CF enough to spend $25.

Of course, these Collector Forums are no longer the ONLY forums on the Internet for those interested in Lighthouses in general and Harbour Lights. I admit I've cruised over to Ross Tracy's Lighthousing.net to see what's going on over there at times and I see many of the same people who either were or still are active on these Forums. There is also a lot of duplication of messages and posts. Sometimes by the same people.

Is there a need for both? That's not a question for me to answer. Those who follow one or both are the ones who decide by their participation.

I haven't done much to promote the Collector Forums. I could do more -- by emailing all members periodically. What more could we do?

Provide individual lighthouse support groups (such as Avery Point) with their own Forum for their members only?

Provide a Forum for those who operate lighthouses to share ideas and information?

Re-evaluate the present Cruise Directors who are no longer active and encourage others to volunteer and spike up interest in individual Forums?

Reinvent the Forums with some expanded purpose(s)? And what should those purposes be?

I believe we've done good things for lighthouses and created some long-lasting friendships over the years. We've raised several thousand dollars for Lighthouse preservation. Many of us have traveled to meet together and enjoy fellowship.

The future is up to those who are members... and those who enjoy lurking without joining.

What say YOU?

I have to admit that I don't post as much as some of you but I do read the messages a couple of times each day. I do enjoy reading about other people's trips - trips that I can't do myself right now but by reading about others' trips, I know that I want to do them some day. I love the photos that are posted by many of our members. I use to visit Ross Tracy's forum but enjoy this one much more, even tho I am not a HL collector (don't have the room nor the money). I like the people on this list alot and hope that it is not discontinued. I have learnt alot on this forum and would be sorry to see it go. Maybe we are just going through a phase and things will pick up later?

Eskilady

I've sent out email messages to the 871 members who have posted at least once inviting them to read and respond to this thread. Here's hoping we hear from some old friends and new ones too.

If you do NOT get an email it may be because you haven't updated your email address. Please check your profile by clicking on MY PROFILE.

So far, I've received notice that 179 of the email addresses are bad.

Thanks for your email, John. I have recently tried to make a point of coming in more often to check on the forums. Lately my time has been pretty involved with my photography, and I have probably been spending much more of my time with a few photography based sites with this same type of forum format. My interest in collecting has dwindled a bit, but I recently purchased a display for my collection. I plan to participate more often, particulary in the photography forum - that is a promise. I was interested to note that even in my short time back, after being gone for so long, that participation has obviously dwindled some.

John,

Thanks for emailing and letting us know what was going on. I will admit I have not been to the forums in some time now. Part of it is that two years ago I lost my income for almost 3/4 of a year, which just put all my purchases to a sudden stop. I still have a lot of my lighthouses, and still love them, and appreciated all that I learned in the forums. I did have to sell some of them. With all that said, I hate to admit it, but it made visiting the forums a little tougher. I enjoyed the "thrill" of finding those hard to get pieces and also enjoyed buying a few of the newer ones, but when I could do neither, it was easier to not visit. I have come back from time to time, but since I haven't bought a lighthouse in over two years, nor have I been able to visit one in over three years, I felt as if I just didn't have anything to say or to add to what already was being said.

All of the things previously mentioned such as the general interest of lighthouses waining, interest changing, the war, the weather, I am sure has had a large influence on the forums slowing down. I would just say that the economic downturn that we had been in the last few years might have made things a little slower in the forums as well.

With all that said, I also would hate to see this forum end. This site is one of high quality with a lot of great people in it. I believe also as mentioned earlier that as the weather changes and people start visiting the lighthouses again, things will pick up.

Let me say at this time "Thank You" to all those who have worked so hard in these forums over the years. They have given many people hours of enjoyment, and information.

Rusty

I had read this thread earlier today and was planning on posting this evening after I had some time to think about it, but when John's email came I figured now was as good a time as any.

I'm one of those sporadic members, I must admit. When I first found the forums, I was on here posting quite a lot. Then I disappeared for nearly a year, not because I don't love lighthouses or these forums, but life became terribly hectic. During the time I was gone I had a major auto accident (I'm doing great now), started a brand new job and had some serious relationship changes. In addition, I've been travelling at a pretty relentless pace and haven't had time to do much else. Over the past month I've been trying to visit every day, but often it's only once a day although I have been reading a lot of posts. I often don't have much time to respond which is why most of my posts are a few sentences. I have more times on the weekends when I'm home (which is not all that often).

My love of lighthouses and their preservation has never dwindled. In fact, about 80% of my travelling has involved a visit to a lighthouse or two (or ten). I've even sold some of my photos from those visits at art shows and via word of mouth.

I still collect HL, but for financial reasons and lack of space (I rent an apt, so don't have a whole lot of storage area), my purchases have seriously dwindled. One thing I would like to comment on is a question that John posed about HL branching into other collectibles and our feelings about that. To be honest, yes, it is discouraging to me to see pieces they are producing that I wouldn't buy because they aren't lighthouse collectibles, such as the balloons or the GG bridge. I really didn't care for the ancient series they did either. There are several pieces that I wish they would produce that I could add to my collection and when I see other things being promoted instead, it is kind of discouraging. Not that I love their pieces or the company any less, because I certainly don't. It's just my opinion.

I think like Dennis said, there is often an ebb and flow to things. After going MIA for a year, I decided that I wanted to be more active here, but I never know what this year will bring. I love these forums and I hope they don't go away. This is the only place on the net like this that I visit and the only place I post. I can't speak for the others, but my personal lack of participation is usually due to my hectic life and not a waning interest in what goes on here. I'm very interested to see what the others say.

I still consider myself an active member, but my participation had dwindled considerably over the last two years for a number of reasons:

1) I've gone back to work and don't have as much free time to spend on the Internet and HL.

2) My interest in HL has diminished over the last two years based on HL corporate actions. HL expresses more and more the corporate philosphy, rather than the Mom& Pop philoshpy that attracted me at first. It just isn't the same as it was in the 90's. My interest has shifted from HL pieces to LIghthouse Postcards, A lot less hassles, less expensive, and more fulfilling on a monthly basis.

3) Expressing ANY form of viewpoint on the forums is a very RISKY proposition, especially if you are not one of the originals from early years.

4) I've tried to be active with a number of new initiatives that didn't go over well, so I quit trying.

5) In the forums as well as most other groups, busineses,etc, if you aren't one of the "Good ole boys" you are probably wasting your time in expousing any foreign/different perspectives. After awhile you learn to just keep your mouth shut.

This is the first time in about a year that I have expressed any form of viewpoint on the HL Forums, maybe it is just because my tongue is a little bit looser from the "JacK Daniels" today. During the last year, I've limited myself to postcard exchanges.

KNowing that I've offended someone already, I apologize and will get back to my postcard collections.

I know I am one of the oldest members on this board - going way back to when the forums were still on the Harbour Lights Website.

My participation dwindled awhile back because we've moved three times in the last five years, I now have a 2 1/2 year old daughter who consumes a lot of my time, and I have also spent a lot of Internet time on genealogy. I haven't even touched that since the birth of my daugther. In April of last year, I became a full time stay at home mom. I can now fully dedicate myself to her and to my photography, a long-time dream come true. Hence my recent active participation.

I didn't even know until recently there were other lighthouse boards out there. Like Ned, I also spend a considerable amount of time on photo.net for feedback and answers to questions on photography from other pros. Some lighthouse boards that have far less members are more active than the CF has been.

I'm also not sure also if the interest in HL is diminishing. It sure seems like an awful lot have come up for sale on eBay with no bids, and the ones that get bids go for dirt cheap - less than half of retail.

I have been an avid HL collector since 1995. I have never collected all of them - mainly the Michigan lights and a couple pieces of lights that I've visited. Space and money has also prevented me from collecting more than that. There are other lighthouses that I would love to see HL make - but I think their strongest area has always been the LE pieces. Branching out is fine, but too much branching out spreads you too thin and things start to suffer.

It seems like there has been a large outcry for HL events, too. What ever happened to the reunions? Cost? That cost could be recouped from money that is spent on branching out too much. I think in order for a company to be successful, they need to listen to their regular customers.

My interest in lighthouses, if anything, has become more obsessive since I don't work full time anymore. I have always enjoyed this board and would hate to see it disappear. I find out about lighthouse events here that I would never hear of otherwise. I have met a lot of great people and received a lot of feedback on my photography. I also enjoy seeing other photos from different areas to scope out new places to travel. You don't get that on a chamber of commerce webpage.

My two cents. I'll go hide behind my lenses now.

John,

Thanks for the email. I have been an infrequent poster, yet frequent reader of the forum.

I would hope that no changes be made, however, I understand that the greater the involvement, the more justified the utilization of resources in this manner.

Tom Klinker

I think several factors are at play John. Those of us who have been around since (or even before) HL.com and these forums started know that there is a natural ebb and flow to the forums. People come in to our community, make a flurry of posts expressing their opinions, and drift away like the fireflies at the end of the summer. New folks join in and cycle through and leave. I think a more distressing factor is the loss of some very long time and significant contributors. For whatever reason, we have lost some folks that were the backbone of our group and others have stepped up to replace them.
One reason may be the fact that HL has cut us off from the main page at HL.com due to dealer complaints about the marketplace. With the loss of many many long term and important dealers due to the economy, as well as other smaller dealers; perhaps they backed the wrong horse.
Another factor, as stated by many, is the general decline in the lighthouse craze. It seems to me that there are not anywhere near as many folks from the general population being crazy about lighthouses as there were 4 or 5 years ago.
Finally, I think many of us have reached critical mass as far as buying new lights. If they just go into storage in their boxes because of lack of room, why buy them?
That said, the positives from this group live on. I have made lifelong friends through this group and enjoyed trips that I never would have taken if it wasn’t for these people. I think that we should continue here if we can support the costs. I for one would hate to lose this experience.

John,

Here's some answers to most of your questions. Just my opinion, of course.

I agree with George to point.

“Have we answered ALL the questions that HL collectors might have? And are those with unanswered questions too intimidated to ask them?”

There are plenty of questions that have not been answered. I do think that newcomers can be intimidated by what George refers to as the “Old Boys Network”. Of course it’s not all boys nor are all those people here from the beginning. It is hard to break into the pack, so to speak. Yes, I think new people are intimidated a bit. It takes time to feel comfortable enough to ask questions. I felt the same way in the beginning- of course I didn’t stay shy too long.

”Is the interest in Harbour Lights declining? And/Or is the interest in Lighthouses declining? Or is the uniqueness of our concern for lighthouses becoming so mainstream that we no longer share the affinity?”

Yes, Yes and no. All things go in cycles. It has become more difficult every year to collect HL- no matter if you only collect LE’s or try and collect everything. It’s very hard to get into HL now and see so many items that are out there already. The interest in Lighthouses in general is going away for various reasons- the economy, short attention spans, etc

I don’t think that Lighthouses have become mainstream.

”Is Harbour Lights diversifying into Balloons and other variations of lighthouses discouraging 'hard-core' collectors?”

A definite yes. I understand that it’s a business and HL needs to make money, but their diversification is not a good thing for hard core collectors. There are too many things to try and get.

”Is the state of the economy, or our personal finances, or the state of America at war affecting our interests?”

I’d say yes, but it’s not the biggest reason for the lack of enthusiasm. It’s definitely a factor. It becomes harder to justify the expense of purchasing these items if your personal economy is taking a hit or your concerned that it might. I don’t think the war situation has much to do with it, but it can be a factor.

”Are the Collector Forums dominated by people like myself who has almost 8,000 posts and a few others who have 1,000 posts or more? Does this make it less likely for those who have 6 or 26 or 56 posts to want to participate?”

Yes, this is definitely a factor but eventually most people will either fall away completely or jump into the fray. It just takes some longer than others. It is hard to voice an opinion that differs from someone who has the respect of the core of the Forums particularly if you are new. I don’t have that problem, but as I mentioned before I’m not shy any more.

”Some may recall that during the last few months of 2002, we raised support money for the Collector Forums by selling panoramic prints of Gary Martin's photograph of Grand Haven at Sunset. 100 prints were sold raising a net of about $1,800 which underwrote my costs for the dedicated server.

I didn't repeat this program for 2004, because, frankly, I wasn't sure that there would be 100 people who were still interested in the CF enough to spend $25.”

You are probably correct in this John. I’m sure that you would have gotten some to contribute again this year but I think that maybe we have done a bit too much off selling things via the forums to raise money- be it for the forums or individual Lighthouses. You can only go to the well so often. I would have repeated my support this year, but I’m sure many would not have- since they no longer participate on the same level. You also have not had enough new blood to replace them at that level of concern.

”Of course, these Collector Forums are no longer the ONLY forums on the Internet for those interested in Lighthouses in general and Harbour Lights. I admit I've cruised over to Ross Tracy's Lighthousing.net to see what's going on over there at times and I see many of the same people who either were or still are active on these Forums. There is also a lot of duplication of messages and posts. Sometimes by the same people.

Is there a need for both? That's not a question for me to answer. Those who follow one or both are the ones who decide by their participation.”

The easy answer to that question is of course there is not a need for both- there’s not a need for either. We participate from a desire not a need. I follow both sites mostly because this site while it covers Lighthouses in general it is mostly linked to HL. The other sites (and I include Lighthousenuts on Yahoo) cover Lighthouses in general much more.

The discussions are not as tied to HL, but that’s as it should be. I intend to continue following both. I too have noticed the duplication of topics and have done it myself upon occasion.

”I haven't done much to promote the Collector Forums. I could do more -- by emailing all members periodically. What more could we do?”

I don’t think it’s a promotion problem. I think it’s just a normal path in the chain of events. It’s hard to maintain the same level of interest for so long on any subject. Occasional e-mails wouldn’t hurt. You would probably get some returnees this way, but you might turn off some also.

”Provide individual lighthouse support groups (such as Avery Point) with their own Forum for their members only?”

No. If they want to do that they should do it ion their own. These things can already, and are already, being addressed in the forums that we have. It allows people to choose which ones they read and respond to.

”Provide a Forum for those who operate lighthouses to share ideas and information?”

Again, No. This already exists and people can make use of it if they desire.

”Re-evaluate the present Cruise Directors who are no longer active and encourage others to volunteer and spike up interest in individual Forums?”

Yes this would be a positive move. Interested people will cause more to be motivated to participate more actively


Dennis

I agree with all the stated facts. Cost and available room to display, have been a factor for me. I still love lighthouses, Harbour Lights, the trips, the great information at a moments notice and of course, the friendships that develop. I would hate to see the Forums end. I have ventured to the other sites, but was not impressed. I appreciate all the hard work that is put into the Forums. I have noticed that the old "zip" has diminished somewhat. I haven't been much of a contributor for awhile. Really no, reason. I think with the world situation over the last couple of years, unknowingly we have changed our priorities a bit. Maybe it's time we reeled ourselves back into our shared love of lighthouses here on the Forum. LONG LIVE THE FORUMS!!

Thanks for the email, John, and the opportunity to add my thoughts. I'm newish to this. Because of that, I'm not yet comfortable voicing my opinions. A forum devoted to explaining what some of the other forums are about would be helpful. We had a good discussion going about the term "wacko" because I asked for detail. I want to be involved more, but am wary of coming across as a real ditz. Everybody who posts appear to be long-time chatters and everybody knows everybody else--cliquish is a good description. I'm still wet behind the ears and may be way off base in my thinking, but you asked for my thoughts.

As to content of the forums, they're very useful and have answered questions I haven't thought to ask. One detail I'd like to see implemented would be a key to get to the beginning of each forum. As it is now, when I get onto a specific forum's site, I'm at the bottom of the most recent post and have to move up to the top of the site to read all the postings if I haven't recently been on the site. Minor issue, but an issue for me nonetheless.

I'd hate to see this shut down. I found out about it from another lighthouser who suggested I might find it helpful. He was right and I'm grateful for the suggestion. By the way, it seems to me there a many more men involved in lighthousing than there are women. Do the membership numbers back me up? If so, does anybody know why that it?

Gotta' run--UCONN's beating Oklahoma!!

Hi there.
I just wanted to respond to your message. I am not usually a "poster", although I did post just recently.
I enjoy reading the various posts and learning about HL, and other "goings on".
I currently have approximately 150 HL lights, but due to lack of space, and a recent move and new job, I probably will not purchase any lights for a while.
Thanks for your great work and please continue it!
LOBO

Hi John,
Yes, we are one of the "lurkers" who likes to check out posts on this website at least a couple times a week. However, we don't post often. Don't really know why...Perhaps we don't feel like "one of the in crowd" most of the time. We are members of the HLC but unfortunately with John's work and my church committments it is hard to get to many of our club's events.
We do have over 300 HL's. Most are LE. However after filling 4 curios with HL's space has become very short in supply. Right now we only buy retired LE's if they are a good buy and new lights if they are unique. The Christmas 2003 was definitely one we bought.

We show up as a visitor now instead of our user name. Our son changed our computer format which now utilizes "Privoxy". Need to just take the time to "log in" each time we visit.

BYW...we never received an email from you John. Our email address remains the same.
John & Mary

Good point Sandy, but I would hope that we only appear "clickish" because only a few people do regularly participate. Never feel that your opinion may seem unimportant or that you are are not as informed as we are. How do you think we got informed - We jumped in like you are now and voiced our opinions and asked questions. Thanks so much for taking that step and jumped in. There are many topics here I don't know anything about, try to follow them and learn something new. I know very little about taking pictures and have got some great advise on that.

As far as women go, I guess there might not be as many participating as men, but you have just helped that situation. Thanks and keep it up

Well, let me start out be saying this forum is my "home page", everytime I launch explorer, this is the first place I check out. I really enjoy all the info that I have gained and appreciate the people I have met in these forums.
As for the interest in Harbour Lights or lighthouses,in general, I believe the economy, and the country at war are two factors that may be preoccupying people's minds and wallets.
Here are a few thoughts that may help the forums and keep in interest in Harbour Lights:
-> Deleting the martketplace and having the forum link back on HL's webpage, if possible.
-> Ltd Edition given away each month: one chance per piece bought. Quarterly giveaway of an AP
-> More hints and info on a regular basis of upcoming releases.
Thanks again, John, for all your hard work! I look forward to the continuing wealth of knowledge and info these forums provide.

Over the past year I've met some great people at lighthouse events and visits as well as on line.
Many of them were unaware of The Forums existence and when I asked them to log-on their impressions
were wide ranging. One told me that "he felt that
some of these lighthouse gods feel that the only good Harbour Light comes with all its original packaging and how a holier than thou attitude exist among some of the contributors who feel that someone overpaid for a particular lighthouse.

My reply- your money, your enjoyment. Read the Forum for its ability to expand your enjoyment of lighthouses and remember what they say about opinions.

Personally, I like the give and take. It gets the blood flowing. A fine example is this topic. In reading The Forum over the years, I too agree that some of us take this all to serious. Collecting is a personal thing. Whether it be string , matchbook covers or lighthouses it's for enjoyment. I don't care if I have a blue water, a green water, a box , a COA , the styrafoam insert or that MY Portland Head LE#116 only had 127 packing peanuts when some book said their should be 147. The Forum is a discussion group. Or as Martha would say, "It's a good thing."

Folks are posting in this thread what I think is true of many of us. Life happens! Things get in the way of spending time devoted to one group or another on the internet. That doesn't mean that any of us lose interest in the forums or in lighthouses. We just have to prioritize, and at times, the internet has to take a back seat, or fall a little ways from the top.

This topic of discussion takes place, time after time again in any given group. "Why are things slow...it must be because people are losing interest."

I consider myself to be a NEW MEMBER. I've only been a member here since June, '03, but I've obtained Super Wacko status in that time, and...not once have I offered anything for sale in the Marketplace. :rolleyes: I will also say (mentioned before) that I was one of those "lurkers" here for a couple of years.

I'm also an active member and a Forum Moderator of Lighthousing.net, and if number of posts count, I'm close to 2000 there. I also serve as Moderator at Brent (Pharoslvr) Westwood's Yahoo site, "Lighthouse Nuts" which is without a doubt, one of the most sucessful Yahoo sites.

At times, it's slow at either of those sites, and we have this same discussion.

I participate here and at Lighthousing.net, and Lighthouse Nuts because I love lighthouses and enjoy being around others who share my interest. It seems that the more I become involved with lighthouses, the more I become involved with lighthouses!

I'm here because I'm also what I consider a "hard-core" Harbour Lights collector, even though I don't fit the definition because I add Glows, LLOM, LSS's Anchor Bay, and now thanks to my best friend, Sky Balloons (pretty cool!) to my LE's. I enjoy the discussions w/other HL collectors, and staying in touch w/ these neat & knowledgable people. I've learned so much over the years through the HL Forums.

I probably check in here at least twice a day, and I spend a lot of time at Lighthousing.net, and as much time as possible at the Nuts site. The beauty of the other two sites is that we get to talk about ALL aspects of lighthousing, not just collecting.

Yes, like a few others, I duplicate some posts from one site to another, only because I feel the post might be important enough to give everyone a chance to read it.

However, there are times that I disapear from all 3 sites. Why? Priorities. Maybe I have company, or am involved with my family. Maybe I'm traveling. Maybe I simply don't feel like communicating for one reason or another...might be tired or not feeling well.

My point?...just that STUFF happens. In any group, on the internet or otherwise, you will see a small percentage actively participating. That's just a fact of life. You'll also see the ebb & tide, another fact of life. You'll see people come & go...a fact of life.

I love this site, and hope it continues for a long time. I plan to participate whenever I can, and I'm grateful for the new friends I've found here. I do not for one minute believe that people who have a passion for lighthouses are dropping by the wayside. I believe that tide is swelling!

How could this site improve? For what it's worth, I have a few suggestions:
(1)Look at and speak to your moderators...those who no longer have an active interest in being a leader should step aside and allow some new blood who will work to keep their sections active, accept those duties.

(2)Don't just welcome new members with words. Mean what you say, and welcome them w/ open arms. Many long-time members have a way of ignoring new members when they post. This intimidates some people to the point that they just drop by the wayside. If you want to take some time and review archives, you'll see this happen over & over.

(3)Try not to be so harsh w/ newcomers. People will post or not post. "Browbeating" them is not an effective tool. Always remember the percentage rule- a few will/most won't. Find a softer word than "lurker" for folks who join and don't post right away. If you can't find one, invent one! Where do you think the term "lurker" came from!

(4)If you are a long-timer, don't set yourself up as the absolute expert. Acknowledge the fact that "newcomers" to the site may know as much as you do. Accept the fact that times change.

(5) Don't worry so much! This is a great site and people are devoted to it. Go with the flow, and remember that tides change things. (If you don't believe that, just look at the coast of the Outer Banks!)

(6) Don't be so hasty to make generalizations. It is not true that ALL new members join only to sell their HL's.

Enough rambling from me...but I can't sign off without first giving John a huge thank you for all the work he puts into this site. It is not an easy task, and he does it exceptionally well!

Judy

Hello all,
I joined after ordering a pin for Bodie Lighthouse fund raiser. Most of my harbor lighthouses are the "Little Light of Mine" due to space and cost, however, I do own a few of the bigger ones. I for one am a collector not an investor so I do not worry about the values being up or down, however, I do understand at some point if you want to sell you would be of course concerned with price.
My joining was mainly for the lighthouse information. I do like to read what others have posted since most of you have been doing this for longer than I, you have more knownledge so I have not posted (did not have anything to add).
My main concern has become saving lighthouses and I think this forum is certainly helpful to that end. I know the money raised for the pin each year is small compared to some grants, corporate, government or individual checks but it all adds up. Last year one organization was low on funds and they were not sure they could keep going. I wrote a small check and received a reply that they could now afford to print the next newsletter. The donation was small but kept them going until the next donation and they knew there was interest.
Any way the forum should stay and I will try to post something on the preservation section or perhaps share a picture or two.
Take care, Eric

Hi,

Thank you for your email. I am one of 871 members who posted only once. I believe my one and only post was to ask what "GLOW" meant. That was when I first started purchasing/collecting HL lighthouses. I read your forums often when you were part of the HL website. At that time I was very active in purchasing retired lighthouses and I enjoyed reading the posts and finding out information about HL and I also purchased some lighthouses and lenses from fellow members. At that time I used to be on the computer for hours, reading this forum, checking ebay for lighthouses, emailing fellow collectors I'd met over the years. Things have changed though. I'm not on the computer as often as I used to be, I hardly ever look at ebay, and I don't email back and forth with people I've met over the years. I haven't purchased a HL lighthouse in quite a while. It doesn't mean that I don't love lighthouses any more, or that I don't love to look at my HL lighthouses. I just don't have the room for many more so I have to just purchase ones that I really, really have to have. The same thing happened to me when I bought my first Dept 56 village piece. I went crazy, purchasing one after another then I stopped and now I don't even display them. They are all packed up along with the Dept 56 Snowbabies that I went overboard on. I don't even want to mention the hundreds of beanie babies that I stood in line for, or traded with others to get, or paid a huge sum for just to have that "rare and retired beanie". I've now got a room full of worthless stuffed animals. At least with the lighthouse I can display them year round and never have to pack them up when the season is over. I really enjoy(ed) reading this forum, even though I only posted once and I will continue to check in to see what is going on.
My input may not have added much to your survey but I did want to have the opportunity to say "Keep up the great work".

Hello John and thank you for your email. I am the secretary for Derby City Lights Club in Louisville, Ky. I do take an interest in the forums but don't always remember to post an article or comment. Please know that there are a lot of people who are interested but don't take the time to write. My motto is "Keep on Blinking" This is always added to my minutes of every meeting... Jeannie in Ky.

Whenever I turn my computer on at home to check my mail, I always check this website. It's one of my favorite places to visit. I still have a dial-up connection and don't always have time to read every new post. My husband sometimes complains that I spend too much time on the computer. So, I often go to my favorites first (Map Room/Lighthouse Photography/Lighthouse Papers). I check out the Rumor Mill and others when there is a lot of activity or around the time new pieces should be announced.

I've only been a member since March 2002. I have noticed that there have been fewer people posting lately. The welcome.start here forum is disappointing. When I joined, new members started a thread about themselves. It was interesting to hear about how they got started. Now it's mostly the same people welcoming members who seldom see post. Perhaps a follow-up could be sent to new members who register but never post.

I will spend $25 on Collector's Forum again.

Tammy

I try to check the forums if not every day, at least a couple of times a week. But, for me, the past six months have been hellish, and I just haven't had the time to devote to message boards and the like. Plus, it has been sort of a down time for me in terms of lighthouse stuff (although I've spent a couple of afternoons doing the lighthouse photography thing).

I'm hoping my schedule will ease, and I can spend more time reading and participating in the CF.

Let me just say that sometimes "SLOW" is a good thing and is not necessarily something that is negative. Also I believe that for every post that is made there is probably 7 to 10 views of that post without a response and that is what a forum is all about: "putting out information for others to see"

There is little more to be said about the "ebb and flow" of the site. I am more likely to read posts when HL is shipping new pieces. I'm interested in the collector's views on the new pieces. I do not feel the same "kinship" with HL staff as I once did. No question their diversification into other lines shifted their interest and participation with forum members. I would like to see a "Bill" category where he updates the community on issues, events and personal interest stories regarding the design, manufacturing, and distribution of HL's.

I agree Mike, there have been times when there were a lot of posts and a lot of posters and not much information being shared... sometimes it's quality that's a lot more important than quantity..

Well, this is certainly encouraging. I thought long and hard about making this post this morning and now I'm glad I did. Thanks John for responding so quickly. We have you to thank for the Forums and their success. I felt the same way as a lot of new members about making the first few posts, but being a retired military person, I was never know to be bashful and figured what I didn't know I would soon find out. I am for funding again and I think that we probably could come up with the 100 people after what I've just read. This really looks like the good old days and I'm really impressed. And who cares whether you collect LE, GLOWS, balloons, LLOM, etc as long as you love lighthouses and make a few posts every week. This is what makes us all different and what makes the Forums so interesting. I'm looking forward to reading more posts on this subject.

Thank you John for the e-mail. I know that I am not a poster, but I do enjoy reading the forums.
The only way Bette or I would ever become a WACKO would be to log in to say that we awoke and are still alive. Maybe people would sign in to see if we managed to make another day.

PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE THE FORUMS.

Like all things - they ebb and flow. SENTINELS are always there ..... We may not see them but it is nice to know that they are always there.
There will always be someone posting something of interest for a member or newcomer (like myself) and maybe I don't really count, but for me I LIKE IT.
There are not many lighthouses in Terrell, Texas and Bette and I both are somewhat immobile from excessive longevity. The scooter store even passed us up - said we were a hazard to the other scooter drivers and they don't sell insurance.

Truly - Keep the forums as they are. There are those who still enjoy them.

Keep the FAITH - We are out here. Rex and Bette

John, I too thank-you for the opportunity to voice an opinion AND for all you have done for the Forum.
My participation has dwindled greatly and I will list my reasons.
1) My interest in HL's has fallen since the 9/11 attack. Collecting miniature houses did not seem as important anymore.
2) The economy
3) My lack of space
4) There is very few new opinions in the Forum.
5) The bottom fell out of the investing part of HL's. Why buy what you can't sell? I have over 100 LE's. They are wonderful, but where do you draw the line? I have enough! I also must drive 35 miles to the nearest dealer 'cause of closings of dealerships.
6) The Models being produced today by Y&A are wonderful but, they are of more obscure lighthouses. I would have to be a REAL Wacko to purchase a light I have never heard of. Yet, we as collectors insist the Y&A not reproduce previously done models. no win! Thanks again - Joe

A couple more 'bad address' notifications and about a dozen personal reply emails from individuals so far. I'll summarize some of those later. A couple of people who wanted to be reminded of their passwords.

Keep those responses coming, friends. We want to hear from everyone.

Thanks...

"I am for funding again and I think that we probably could come up with the 100 people after what I've just read."

What does that sentence mean?

Thanks,
Sandy

Now for my two cents worth.....

I first joined this board on a referral from Gary Martin because he moderated the photography forum. For many months I never looked at any other section of the board, I had the photography forum bookmarked and didn't pay much attention to the rest.

One major reason for this is that - brace yourselves - I don't own a single HL. Not a one. So due to that, I'm not a part of the main reason this board was created. I have some Lefton minis and one or two Scassis minis (I know), but collectig just isn't a priority for me. Visiting and photographing are my passions.

I am also a member at Lighthousing.net, and have been a frequent poster there. I can't really say why, sometimes it's tough to describe comfort, but I do feel a little more comfortable there. And I know that sounds like I'm saying that Ross' site is better than this one, but I'm not making judgements either way. I guess it's just comfort level.

I don't feel that interest in lighthouses in general is waning, my personal opinion is that the people who care enough to join a board like this or LH.N and start posting regularly are not your average fad followers. The people who really care will stick around as long as they feel there's something worth while going on. I wouldn't worry about the people who don't post, if they read and enjoy the formus, that's great, I say welcome and post if you feel the urge. If not, it isn't going to affect us posters one way or another.

I have enjoyed this site, even though I'm not in your "target audience" and I'd hate to see it shut down. John, you have done a great job and you should be proud of the community you built.

Thanks John for the email. I try to post and reply as much as I can. If I hear of something I think might be of interest to lighthouser, I try to get it on the Forum. Sometimes other member beat me to it. I also try to respond to the post if I feel I have something important to say. I like the Forum and don't want to see it go away. I find out about lighthouse events and happenings and it's important to me to have this source of information. I recently became a Wacko after being a member for some time, but I was working. Now that I am retired I usually sign on at least once a day and sometimes twice a day if I can. I am looking forward to becoming a Super Wacko, but it will probably take me longer than some other members.

In other words, please don't take it away.

Joyce

Sandy - I think Rich is referring to the original email where John wrote:

”Some may recall that during the last few months of 2002, we raised support money for the Collector Forums by selling panoramic prints of Gary Martin's photograph of Grand Haven at Sunset. 100 prints were sold raising a net of about $1,800 which underwrote my costs for the dedicated server.

I didn't repeat this program for 2004, because, frankly, I wasn't sure that there would be 100 people who were still interested in the CF enough to spend $25.”

Hope that helps!

John,

Thanks for your email.

I used to check this website everyday and enjoyed posting on occassion. I used to love signing up for the postcard exchange. There were some major changes in my life last year (new house and a new baby) so the forum had kind of taken a back seat to everything else. Now that things have settled down I have begun to visit this site again and hope to be able to check it ona regular schedule in the future. I have always enjoyed this forum and look forward to participating in discussions again in the future.

One suggestion....it would be nice to have periodic emails from you about the forum. Maybe you could do a "mass emailing" from time to time. It would have been nice to see an occassional email about the forum during my haitus.

Well, John that is all the time I have right now to add my input. I do enjoy this forum and want to thank you for all the effort that you put into it to keep it up and running.

I checked the outgoing email list and you were definitely on it... and of the 180+ 'bad addresses' notices I've gotten, yours wasn't among them. Are you using a spam filter? Are you filtering your incoming emails?

All I can say RIch is WOW, you certainly hit on a topic that has people posting their thoughts and I think they are all worth paying attention to. I love visting the forums and do so at least 5-6 times a day. I don't always post or reply to what I see and that's OK. I don't like the term "Lurker", I find it demeaning. Not everyone will post or reply to a post and that's how it should be.

John your emails are bringing people out of the woodwork and it's so nice to see all these posts. I think I'm the 42nd post on this thread and all in one day. This may be some sort of record.

I can't wait to get back in here tomorrow morning and see section 2 or 3 of this thread. Doesn't appear to me that there is a declining interest, just a little set back is all it was.

WOW!!!

Not much time to post right now. And that about explains it all for me!

Everyday when I get in from work the first thing I do is sign onto the Internet, check my email and then go to the Forum. I read over all the new post that have been made sense the prier day. I would love to post many times, but just don't have the time to spend, like I did before going back to work. If there is a subject that really strikes my attention, I will say a word or two. When this job is over you all should see me posting here daily as before.

Other than that, it seems that all I could say has already been said.

Stephanie

Don't know what is happening but I seem to be sending a bunch of postings, not on purpose. I also received your e-mail and it has waken me up.Probably haven't posted for I don't know what to write. Do have something of interest, my brother-in-law for Christmas made me a wooden LH which is outstanding. He is a wood worker craftsman. The LH is about 2 1/2 feet high with a house. It lights up, I have a picture stored in my e-mail but I don't know how to transfer it. I intend to send a piture to the Youngers, hoping they put it in the Legacy. Til next time
Bob Jaegers

"I didn't repeat this program for 2004, because, frankly, I wasn't sure that there would be 100 people who were still interested in the CF enough to spend $25."

If we were to put a cost on our friendships would $25 be enough? Would it be $50?

As I approach my 100th post, most of which have been since the Regional in Grand Rapids in June, no dollar amount could explain what this forum has meant to Lucinda and I.

From the Regional at Navy Pier (I met Derith there) to my first chat (where Sue showed me the ropes) to the countless emails and the friendship with Suzanne, this little part of the internet is extremely special. We will never be the largest Harbour Light Collectors, we found Bill and his lights way to long into it to try and make up the missing pieces; we collect the ones we like, the ones we are fortunate enough to win and the select sale ones or perhaps an Ebay steal.

I post where I can, and we attend all the events we can in maintaining and building these friendships. I never thought about buying a post card in my life before unless I was mailing it somewhere, now everywhere I see postcards, I'm looking to find something new. To come home to see a new postcard in the mailbox is a great thing, to actually know the people who sent them to you even better.

Hopefully this isn't mindless banter and that some of it makes sense, and that somewhere someone else feels the same way too. If help is needed, ask and you shall receive.

Larry

I suppose I should throw my 2 cents in on this topic as I have not been on the boards much since late summer. I have not lost interest in HL, or lighthouses but since late summer we began looking for a new house, after finding one 2 months later it was a hectic scramble to get packed to move, didn't move far only about 5-6 miles. In our new neighborhood high speed cable internet is not available nor is DSL, so it was back to dial up service. I can't begin to tell you how painfull it is to wait to connect and move thru web pages or sites. This keeps me from even checking in but once or twice a weekend. Also since late October a new dedicated project at work keeps me away from a computer monday thru friday. And at the same time I have been working on my old house getting it ready to sell it on the weekends (it's almost done). So anyway I still check in, but just not like I used to.

John, if you were to have a forum support photo drive again I would be in, I also have a couple photo's you would be welcome to use if you were interested.

Mark

John, thanks for the e-mail about this thread.

Times change, people change, lives change.

Being around this group since the old Harbour Lights Collectors Information Center days and a member of the old Keeper's Corner (I think that's what it was called) that recieved news a few weeks before the rest, I have seen a lot of changes. Most have been positive, some not.

For myself, my interest started to drop when my wife and I were trying to start a family. Then, once the twins were born, that just about ended my unlimited "on-line" time. Now that they are getting older (almost 8 months) I have once again started to frequent the forums more often.

Bob, In your personal private message you ask us to get off our lazy, lethargic butts. I think that may be tounge-in-cheek, but negitve comments like that are not the answer to getting people to post. I used to post daily on these pages, but life changes and priorities no longer make that possible. If I could spend the time here I used to, I would. It ain't gonna happen now and being lazy isn't the reason.

In general, I do believe interest in lighthouses has been falling. I also feel that a big reason for the decline in Harbour Lights and conversely interest in this fourm can be traced back to when the market was flooded with 9000+ edition size lighthouse runs sitting on dealer shelves FOREVER. They are still sitting on a lot of dealer shelves! Now to make ends meet Younger & Associates continues to diversify its line of products and in the process, in a sense, driving away many of the core collectors.

These Collector Forums are still the best source for first hand information that does not make it to the general public until a later date. The members here are and have always been first rate. It is a family here. Sure there are disagreements, but that happens in any family. It would be a shame to lose that. In that same vein, while I have met a few of you, since I have never attended a reunion or regional, or Rosemont show, I have never met in person many of you who are part of that core family. As a result, I sometimes feel out of the loop so to speak. Not so much intimidated, but just not "one of the gang". That is no one's fault but my own. All I need to do is try harder to make it to some of these events.

I've rambled on for long enough. John, you are amazing. Thank you for all the years you have dedicated yourself to this cause. Thank you also to Paul and to many others who have also went beyond the call of duty to make this such a fantastic site and to help out fellow collectors and friends.

-Todd

I've been a member for a couple years, but have never posted very frequently. Occasionally I have something I feel is worth contributing, or a question I believe could be answered here. Generally, though, I check in almost every day to read the latest postings. In fact, I read here about John's e-mail before I read the actual e-mail.

My old computer used to keep me logged in. The new one doesn't; often I don't bother to log in, and appear only as an anonymous "lurker". But I stop by often, I enjoy the Forums, and I really appreciate the work John and the cruise directors do to maintain them.

It's hard to add anything new to the observations above. I agree that the lighthouse "fad" is over as far as giftware, decorator items, etc. are concerned. (Remember a few years before, when everything was sunflowers? Wonder if there was a sunflower forum? But I digress . . .) I don't think the Forums' activity level ever relied heavily on those for whom lighthouses were merely a fashion statement.

I believe the end of the "fad" is one reason Y&A have had to diversify to survive. By the looks of their early 2004 releases, their LE line hasn't suffered from their diversification. Serious collectors still have a lot to like, to discuss, and to argue about. Maybe we all just have a little less time. The time stamp on this post will give you an idea when I can find the time to contribute. But I'll keep reading, and would hate to see the Forums go away.

Bruce

Wow! I'm impressed with the number of responders.

Tammy wrote that "new members started a thread about themselves." I'd like to see a permanent forum dedicated to all members giving a short bio about themselves. Nothing intrusive, just a few sentences about their hobbies, themselves, their interests, etc.

Thanks Sheryl--appreciate the "atta girl!"

Thanks Becki--wondered how this site was paid for.

Ditto Larry's comment: "If help is needed, ask and you shall receive." I'd be happy to pay dues and become a card-carrying member.

Sandy

I know my posts have declined significantly over the past year and a half or so, but my interest level in lighthouses certainly hasn't diminished. I browse the forum a few times a week, but I normally don't post.

Short and sweet. I visit the forums every day. I jump in and let myself be known when I feel I need or want to. My interest in collecting HL's has been temporarily put aside for now but NOT my interest in lighthouses! I have been very busy this winter and just haven't been home much to surf, thank god for work!! I'm still here, just a little less vocal than normal. I don't think we have to worry about these forums or the interest of it's participants. We're are never too far away and always around when needed!

I admin it. I only visit the REAL lighthouses section. I do check them often. I used to collect LLOMs but my interests lean more towards the real thing. As for posting, I do post, just not as often as I used too.

Thanks for all the input. This thread must be one of the fasting growing in the history of the Forums.

Keep on postin\' and give us your input here .