No More "Newbies"

No More "Newbies".

Oh, sure, we're still welcoming newcomers to these forums, but for those who were put-off by being identified as a "Newbie" (when they may have been collecting for years), I've eliminated the name for those with fewer than 50 posts.

Once you reach the 50 level, you will gain "Wacko" status automatically.

If you are a "Newbie" -- I mean if you are not yet a "Wacko", you'll notice that the identification of "Newbie" has disappeared from your old posts.

Such is the perogative of Sainthood.

I don't understand why people would mind being called a Newbie. When I first started, that was part of the fun. I didn't take "Newbie" as an insult or being a new collector, but new to the forum. It was really exciting seeing my postings being built up to when I could become Wacko. I don't think that by being "nothing" and then becoming a Wacko is an improvement. But that's my take on the situation.

Joanne


[This message has been edited by Joanne (edited 03-21-2001).]

I happen to agree with Joanne...and, less than three hours ago, I WAS a NEWBIE . To be completely honest, that never entered into my mind when I first joined into the forums. I just saw it as the "pecking order" for the site (NEWBIE, WACKO, CRUISE DIRECTOR, SAINT, etc...) and I never took any offense to that or any of the terms.

I appreciate Lighthouse Keeper's gesture, but I really didn't mind the term at all. Maybe, if there is a stigma placed on the term NEWBIE, someone out there can come up with something else...

I began collecting HL's in January, 1992...and joined the forum in August, 1999....being called a "Newby" seemed understandable considering the fact that being a collector isn't quite the same thing as being "on the forum". Imho I thought it was kinda neat working toward "WACKO" status..... and the day I got there I was proud to have made it.

.

[This message has been edited by SThompson (edited 03-29-2001).]

Hopefully even the PC folks can have fun. ;->



So for the first forty-nine messages you're a, a, a what? Untitled? Waiting to be processed, unclassified, el blanko? What's next? Gender neutral names? Whatever happened to:



Come on all you new Newbies say it loud say it proud.

I'm proud to be a Newbie in the Forum
I'm sad my titles gone without a Qourum
Newbie is name - I like my title Fine
Just reup my login when my posts hit Forty-Nine!

or if you're in a kinda Leonard Bernstein West Side Story mood...

When you're a Newbie you're new all the way
From your first cookie sent to your last Middle Bay
When you are New you can ask what you can
You've got lottsa new friends, you're a Harbour Lights Fan
You're never alone, you're never disconnected
You can even tell your dealer when new models are expected,
You're well-protected!
Then you are set with a capital 'N'.
Which you'll never forget when they take it away.
Just cause you're New you're Welcome to Stay!

(JC contemplating new title for Saint Smartass - LOL!)

Cheers,
__
/
[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 03-21-2001).]

Group Limerick time

There once was a Saint from Wisconsin.

[This message has been edited by JChidester (edited 03-20-2001).]

My my ... change the topic just when its getting started... rofl!

The way folks rhyme around here, I think that ones gonna be kinda tough - hmmm, rhymes with 'consin' - nah - I don't think so. Let's make it a little easier, eh, JC? How 'bout

From Wisconsin there Once was a Saint

My original starting line was going to be:

There once was a Newbie from Mass.

Your choice.

LOL

I enjoyed being a Newbie, and earning my Wacko. As for the Cruise Director, that's a function of volunteering at the opportunity.
Tradition...Change...Whatever?

Okay Lighthouse Keeper, I have a challenge for you.

Your quote: "Such is the perogative of Sainthood."

If titles don't mean much, and Newbie is now a derogatory word - are you willing to give up your status as Saint under your real name?

Joanne

Being a NEWBIE never hurt my feelings the whole 17 days I was one!

Wow, were we confused by this one. A few
days ago my husband sent his first post to
the forums as a "newbie" and I sent my first
one today as a "junior member". I kinda
liked "newbie", too - boo hoo! My first
thought when I saw "junior member" was that
someone goofed and thought I was somebody's
kid. Guess I'll just have to keep posting
so I can become a "wacko", especially since
I'm ordering a pin.

Marilyn

Hmmm.... how 'bout 'Tenderfoot' 'Greenhorn' 'Swabbie' 'Frosh'.

Yeah Newbie ain'y so bad afterall.

LOL Timoteo... I agree.

I too didn't have a problem with the term "Newbie". I never thought twice nor felt inferior or intimidated just because I didn't have 50 posts. It was a game to make Wacko, and that was fun! If we are soo concerned with name calling, stereo typing, whatever, then remove all descriptions. Seems to me that in this day and age, we try to be all things to all people. So, to put it like some of the locals here, "That dawg just won't hunt." While you are at it, why not remove the number of posts each member makes. Surely, if there are those who are intimidated by the term "Newbie" then they are most likely intimidated by those with several hundred, to several thousand posts. IMHO

Tim - Keeping the flame lit...


[This message has been edited by Torchbearer (edited 03-23-2001).]

I also never minded the term Newbie and I was one until about 10 minutes ago. In fact I really enjoyed keeping track of my posts and working towards Wacko status. I think some people are too sensitive if they let terms like Newbie, Wacho etc. bother them. Just my thoughts. GerryBu

Junior Member? What is this, the Senate?

Bring back the Newbie!

Joanne

Ther term defaulted to "Junior Member" when I failed to put ANY term in there.

So I changed it to "Registered Member".

.

[This message has been edited by SThompson (edited 03-29-2001).]

Lighthouse Keeper - I'm offended at the thought that you think that a significant number of forum contributors are so thin-skinned as to be "put off" by the title "Newbie", to the extent of eliminating it, especially without giving them an opportunity to voice their opinions! I'm also offended that it was done under the anonymity of a new UserName, with no identification in your profile. Maybe we should create some new official titles, like "Fuehrer" and "Coward".

You know, I was thinking that maybe I was over-reacting, and that this was too mean-spirited to post to the forums. I went back to send you a (somewhat more civil) e-mail instead, and realized that you've even disabled that capability.

I wasn't over-reacting.

Bruce

Lighthouse Keepers is me. I created this identity to see what the title would be for a new member if I eliminated any title for what was known as "Newbies" before.

At first there was no title and the next day the default title "Junior Member" popped up.

When I went to post the message "No More Newbies" (this thread), the name and password defaulted to the 'new' one rather than my 'JChidester' one. I didn't realize that until the next day when there were already replies to the thread so I couldn't do anything about the name under which I posted.

I did away with the 'Newbie' term because some previous posts had indicated either than it didn't describe a long time collector new to the Forums or that some felt it might discourage new Collector Forum members from joining.

Sean - when the Forum software was upgraded some months ago, a new feature was that it could display the information that you COULD see if you clicked on the sunglasses icon. When I turned that feature ON, as I recall there was a good reaction from most people.

The Forums are always in flux. That's good IMHO. A new look every once in a while, a few features added or subtracted. Not everything works out. It appears the "Open Forum" isn't working for what I thought it might and perhaps "Newbie" wasn't as offensive as it seemed to me to be -- at least among the WACKOS.

Kind of like First Class Scouts remembering they were once 'Tenderfoot' when they started off. Having been a 'Tenderfoot' makes being 'First Class' more meaningful.

I'm always open to suggestions and ideas.

Please re-read the first message in this thread and you will see it was posted in 'my voice' not intended to be posted as some anonymous person.

My apologies for the confusion this may have caused some.

John Chidester
Your Humble (?) Servant

Replace "Newbie" with "WIT"..."Wackos in Training". It's pretty much assured that they will all get there eventually.

Bob

I like "WIT". Has a nice ring to it. Gives you something to shoot for.

. . . never mind.

I also thought that the new name was to hide an identity.

Joanne

.

[This message has been edited by SThompson (edited 03-29-2001).]

Hey John how about going lighthouse all the way such as apprentice keeper,asst.keeper inspector etc.Bill O'Brien oseabee

I think that this topic demonstrates that you can't please all of the people all of the time. I believe that John,as webmaster, should make some "executive" decisions when he feels that it's in the best interest of the group, or in response to issues passed on to him in many ways. The people known as saints here have earned their stripes by providing service "above and beyond" to the rest of us in keeping the HL website and forums up and running. Some participants here have been around since the AOL group discussions, some since John's old website, and some are fairly new, but we all can share and learn from each other. So let's not sweat the small stuff, and enjoy our favorite lighthouses big and small.
Jim
Johnson

John,

Look at it this way-

Between this topic and the logo change topic your batting the equivilent of .750.

Nothing wrong with that average. Keep up the good, honest efforts that have earned you your perogative.

Dennis

I like the "Wackos in Training", too, but
if John puts "WIT" out there, he'd probably
just get more comments about adding things
to it like "dim" or "half".

Marilyn

John,

I think oseabee has a great idea regarding the titles...it's worth considering.

Bruce

Nor perhaps among the "newbies" - as a recent one myself, I found it had a certain descriptive value - that I could perhaps get away with asking beginner's questions a little more. What did puzzle me for a while was the progression of titles. Finally got my suspicions confirmed in this thread!
However - bottom line, I can go either way! These are in total some of the best run, most effective forums I have observed on the net. Thanks for your efforts on behalf of all of us newb.....uh, Registered Members?

(my first attempt at capturing a quote - hope I got it right!)

Once upon a time we had a thread about changing the name of the "Collector Forums" to something more representative of collecting Harbour Lights. If I remember, the general consensus there was "if it ain't broke - no need to fix it'. I'm not sure anything is broke here.

There's also something to be said for continuity over time. People come and go on the Forums all the time. There are lots who are here for 3-6-12 months and then lose interest, or no longer have the time, or whatever - a few people drop in maybe once a month. Thats the way it is with many different groups.

I'm inclined to view the Newbie/Wacko thing as kinda like the entry level requirements for citizenship. Just like becoming a registered member is a pre-requisite for posting messages. Heck, if it was me, I'd say you need 50 messages with at least 2 messages in every forum just to make sure you know what goes where and learn your way around.

Part of the Wacko meaning (imo) is you've stuck around long enough to make 50 contributions. These can take lots of different forms, from asking a good question, or making someone else feel at home, providing an interesting perspective, or helping someone else with this hobby. Show you're interested enough to stick around for a while, make a contribution to the neighborhood and then you don't have to park in the visitors lot anymore.

For me personally, most messages are interesting cuz they give some insight to the messenger, but when it comes to changing the forums I'm inclined to take more seriously the voices who have been here and who will probably continue to be here. Kinda like the guy who comes into my neighborhood who wants to change the zoning laws, but doesn't own a home yet. His voice isn't as important to me as the homeowners around me.

There's something to be said for trying new stuff and evolving - and I'm all for it. There's also something to be said for continuity and tradition - and there's a place for that too. If the future resembles the past, then somewhere around 25%-40% of the people talking about making a change won't be here this time next year.

Don't matter what the title is next to your name - if you're a newbie, you're a newbie. Its not a crime and there's no stigma attached to it. Heck, Newbies tend to get treated with kid gloves, are given a greater level of tolerance and even allowed to ask dumb Newbie questions. If I was a Newbie, I'd enjoy the label.

There are very few established groups a person can walk into and expect instant recognition. What other associations build up in people's minds will result from what you say here and the contributions you make. Just like any other neighborhood. No amount of forced political correctness will change this. Doesn't have anything to do with a level playing field - ever single person here has the same opportunity to participate and contribute. Its up to you to make this place what you want it to be. So stick around.

__
/im

[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 03-28-2001).]

So, Tim, Do you favor the return to "Newbie"? You can use your 1500th post to let me know here.

John - 'Newbie' is a pretty benign handle - to me it makes its point in a friendly way - without negative connotation, - simply noting the person as 'new to the Forums'. I'm not strongly wedded to it but its worked OK thus far.

I think the real key is what you correctly recognized some time ago. Namely, many folks like the challenge or goal of getting from Newbie to Wacko. I believe this really does encourage participation. We've seen lots of folks who celebrate their 50th posting and others seem to share their enjoyment in the achievement. I'll bet there are several members who can tell you exactly which message was their 50th.

I don't think it will be as meaningful going from 'blank' to Wacko as it is going from 'something' to Wacko. Its a small rite of passage thats easy to accomplish - all you really need to do is hang out and participate. So I'm in favor of keeping some sort of handle that is reserved for new people just so they have the opportunity to move beyond it.

Its important for folks coming into the forums to understand this *is* an established group and not a free-for-all. Its also important for groups to have or develop a mutually supportive identity - call it tradition if you like. Sharing a lore whether directly or as it is passed along from one to another helps bind the group members over time. Across history - from tribes to fraternal orders - the passage of achievement and participation is marked in some way. If the Newbie-to-Wacko thing reflects this and helps us have a tradition we can call our own, then to my way of thinking, its a positive.

So my answer (finally!) is this - until we can some up with something better than 'Newbie' that serves the same function, then I say keep it. If a better term comes along, I suspect we'll recognize it and say 'hey lets use that'.

John - I admire your continual willingness to try things that may generate new or renewed interests. Its the hallmark of a great moderator. The fact that we're still here and having fun suggests you know pretty darn well what works. :-) Your call buddy - I'll support what you think is best for our group cause I know that'll be the basis for whatever decision is made.


__
/im

[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 03-29-2001).]

Newbie is retired, keep it that way!

Paul L Brady

Agreeing with Saint Timoteo... until a better term comes along, let's keep Newbie. Registered Member just doesn't do it.

Tim - Keeping the flame lit...

Yall can call me anything you want execpt late for dinner..Ive been called MANY things worse than newbie and if anyone is offended,then something is wrong..I have my newbie sticker pasted proudly to my forehead until I write enough replies..Theres more things in life to worry about
Kevin

I agree with what you said Kevin but for a different reason. there are more important things in the world to worry about than using the term Newbie or not.

I for one, and apparently the only one, wish that people would just move on with their lives and be able to put the Newbie Era behind them.

SaintWackoPaul '
Keep the Flame

I agree that there are many more important things to worry about than the title of Newbie. Also I would like to thank John for one of the best moderated forums I have had the chance to be part of. These forums are very well run with many different peoples backgrounds and interests and we all get to learn from them. Thanks again John GREAT JOB GerryBu

Actually we weren't worrying about titles at all. It was not even a topic for discussion until it was brought up within the last month or so. There aren't many prior messages that suggest many people here are hung up on titles in the least. The discussion was based on a hypothesis that the title of 'Newbie' was 'intimidating' to newcomers. This hypothesis was repeated several times as if it had legitimacy despite there being no evidence of its truth.

Regardless of what you think, its been interesting to observe the social dynamics of the issue. One thing I've observed in the Forums over the years - regardless of the viewpoint, you'll always find somebody here who will agree with you and somebody who won't. C'est la vie

I think John and everyone here at the forum, do a real terrific job. I being fairly new to the group will go along with whatever in their better knowledge and experience suggest. They put alot of time and effort into suppling us with wonderful information. The terms we go by are just a part of being members of a group. I am a very small collector of HL's and could easily feel small compared to the members that have 30, 40, and more HL's. But, I didn't join for that reason and feel very welcomed. So life is too short, make your posts if you choose and get to whatever level is important to you. I'm here for the friendship and great information that I am looking for in my interest and love of lighthouses.

Sheryl

[This message has been edited by Beaconfollower (edited 04-02-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Beaconfollower (edited 04-02-2001).]